| Used to be Christian... now against it.
Posted: 10/29/2005 11:24:16 PM | Anyone out there used to follow christianity and now not necessarily against it, but oppose it?
I do for the fact I know in my heart there is no God, no Christ, etc. I prayed for 14 years and nothing comes of it. I get ridiculed, falsely accused of crimes, and miss out on life. Thought it was supposed to be about life. Christians are worse than non-Christians when it comes to judging, etc. | |
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| Used to be Christian... now against it.
Posted: 10/29/2005 11:37:41 PM | | Sorry to hear it, brother. In that case, you were hanging with the wrong Christians. Strong, serious, devoted Christians wouldn't have been fake, and, whether you believe or not, would still not be funny. | |
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funn1
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Joined: 1/8/2005
Msg: 5 | |
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| Used to be Christian... now against it.
Posted: 10/30/2005 12:00:26 AM | | Good point, Funn. It's rather sad, if you ask me, that some folks (nothing against the OP), allow others to ruin stuff for them. | |
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| Used to be Christian... now against it.
Posted: 10/30/2005 12:03:43 AM | | Not quite sure what you mean by the question. I used to be a Christian and I'm glad I escaped from that sick twisted religion. I hope people leave it in droves. Maybe some day it will die the ignominious death it deserves. | |
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| Used to be Christian... now against it.
Posted: 10/30/2005 12:06:48 AM | | Meet God your own way on your own terms. You don't need religion to be spiritual and have a relationship with the Absolute. Your higher self is whispering in your mind all the time just begging to be heard so that your spiritual unfoldment and developement can begin. I was a christian for most of my child hood into my late teens and then I realized that I didn't believe in the christian ideals at all. Check out Buddhism if you want (in my opinion) a much better way of looking at life and reality as it exists today. I'm not say become a buddhist but the ideals are alot easier to swallow than christianity. Check out other stuff to like Quantum Physics and Yoga Philosophy. I have found that coming to your own realization of the Truth is much more full filling than blindly following any religion. | |
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| Used to be Christian... now against it.
Posted: 10/30/2005 12:36:44 AM |
I hope people leave it in droves. Maybe some day it will die the ignominious death it deserves.
Wow, Count, who crapped in your Wheaties? I can understand if someone doesn't identify with a particular path, or finds a reason to believe in one thing over another, but that's just hateful. Not a judgement call, since, quite honestly, I'll be the first to defend anyone's right to believe what they wish, but I'd be very interested to understand what could cause someone who is otherwise so obviously intelligent to take such an apparently irrational contrarian stance. In effect, dude, what happened to you?
I have found that coming to your own realization of the Truth is much more full filling than blindly following any religion.
Well put, True. | |
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| Used to be Christian... now against it.
Posted: 10/30/2005 1:37:05 AM | | Christ was a communist. From what I understand of christianity all who call themselves christians should also be communists. Almost NONE are. I agree the majority of christians are fake. | |
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| Used to be Christian... now against it.
Posted: 10/30/2005 1:49:42 AM | Christ was a communist. From what I understand of christianity all who call themselves christians should also be communists.
And, to what information/reasoning do you attribute this apparent (astounding) leap of logic? | |
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| Used to be Christian... now against it.
Posted: 10/30/2005 1:51:59 AM | My thinking on God is this for those who are agnostics or worse: If you were walking through the forest and came to a clearing and right there in the grass was a sharp clean Chevrolet corvette and on close inspection you noticed that the keys were in it and it also had a full tank of gas, would you think.............dang, it just sprang up spontaniously from the grass! It is a miracle! Now isn't that just stupid? Guess what? Chevrolet Corvettes are nothing in comparison to our human bodies or even a tiger, a bird, a tree. It took a mind, actually lots of minds to build a Corvette. Corvettes don't just spontaniously appear in a field and we can get in them and drive away, happy as a lark and we don't tell everyone we see.........Guess what? This Corvette just spontaniously appearred in a field! If you look at even just one cell of any animal, it is so complex. It takes intelligence to build anything complex. Things don't just happen. Even with a big bang theory..........lets see one day there was a big bang and out pops a corvette stingray...........hummmmmmm, pretty stupid huh? For sure. The church of the Corvette Stingray.......It is a simple idea, but if you really give it some thought, I can't see anyone on the planet that would think that it was possible...........well, I have talked to a few people on the net that didn't seem to be from this planet, so I take that back LOL, but hopefully I have made my point. Things don't just happen........it takes a brain to make them happen, because life is way to complicated for things to just (bang, there ya gooooooooo, here is a cheese burger, it used to be a rock and it suddenly transformed it's self into a cheeseburger). Concerning your thought that Christians are phoney........come on, people are the same no matter if they are Christians or not ie; we have all sinned and come short of the glory of God! The differance is your sins are forgiven. Christians aren't little Jesus' walking around healing people, they are factory workers, Respiratory Therapist (LOL), Doctors, yes even attorneys (LOL). We are all human beings and we make mistakes, but if you are a christian, then when you get to heaven, God looks upon you as being without sin.
Concerning your prayers not being answered: God doesn't answer our prayers the way we think they should be answered. God is an awsome God, his ways are not our ways. God deals with our problems mostly internally. In my life, I find that he just helps me deal with the battles within myself.
Case in point: If two armies are going to war against each other and both have the same God and both armies are praying for victory, which would God answer? Remember reading about the United States civil war ie; the north and the south? Both prayed to the same God and both lost lives. He loves us all equally, so who does he answer? He answers both, but not in the way we expect him to. He gives us courage to face our enemies. He gives us courage to face the greatest enemy........death. Usually god doesn't interfer with the natural laws, because he is a god of science. He made the rules of science, so rarely if ever does he go against his own laws. God works on our mind and our spirits. I have heard of miracles and with my own eyes I have seen strange things, but when I want to see something super natural, I never do. It is always a surprise when I see something that breaks the laws of science and our own understanding of how God works. God is a mystery, and all he wants from us is understanding, faith and love Tracy (buccaneer38)  | |
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| Used to be Christian... now against it.
Posted: 10/30/2005 3:31:30 AM |
God is a mystery, and all he wants from us is understanding, faith and love
That makes no sense, if he is a mystery, how can you understand him?
And I saw your corvette anology on one of the other posts. Corvettes are man made, so no they are not going to spring up without any man made help.
Man can now duplicate life too, which makes them God like, right?
I'm sorry Tracy, but your God is not a nice being. I will stick to my Pagan path, thank you very much | |
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| Used to be Christian... now against it.
Posted: 10/30/2005 3:47:52 AM | I use to be a christian... I left for my own reasons to which I've stated many times on the boards so I don't really need to go into it. But..I won't "rain on anyones parade" so to speak. I think if christianity works for a person great...if not? Fine...search out another path. Since obviously it didnt work for you... I'd highly suggest buddhism. It's a great faith to follow, and centered so much on your inner peace. Goodluck to you in your journeys tho | |
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| Used to be Christian... now against it.
Posted: 10/30/2005 3:49:04 AM | bucc38... those are some pretty poor analogies. If everything complex takes a brain to create it, then what created the creator? Or does he not count?
I especially like how you said "Agnostics or worse". Yeah we are all horrible horrible people who will go to hell because we are bad and wrong and..... whatever.
Just because you cannot imagine the world and life having come into existance without a divine design doesn't mean it can't happen and it doesn't mean that others can't see a logical path. Yes a human being is complex, which is why it took billions, possibly orders of magnitude more years for them to "happen" on a single planet that had the right building blocks in the right ratios and conditions for life to begin and then to thrive.
You have your faith, it works for you, congratulations. I am glad you found peace in the world and something to believe in. Please do not attempt to convert people through a forum however, it just irritates and drives away those you are attempting to sway.
To the OP, I was Christian once, then I read the Bible. Its a story you will likely hear from a lot of people here. I have since softened a lot and am simply a hardline Agnostic. As long as nobody is trying to convert me I will treat anyone's faith as valid as long as it is not overtly harmful and/or nonbeneficial. There is insufficient evidence either way so I say Live and let live. | |
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NORBZ1
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Joined: 7/11/2005
Msg: 16 | |
| Used to be Christian... now against it.
Posted: 10/30/2005 6:15:08 AM |
I don't hang with any Christians. They all fake to me and a joke!
I will agree that there are people in the world who proclaim they are Christian and present themselves in a bad light. On the other hand, I know Christians who are very good people. They try to do their best and they do not preach to me, or belittle me because I don't share their spiritual beliefs. I am proud to have them as friends.
I do understand a person becoming disillusioned with a faith or even in their "God", but to condemn a whole religon because of some of it's followers, or because of fundamental differences just does not make any sense to me.
Of course the over all make up of a person is guided by their faith, but still, we should not judge people by their faith, but as an individual.
::stepping down from soapbox:: | |
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| Used to be Christian... now against it.
Posted: 10/30/2005 9:01:39 AM |
Wow, Count, who crapped in your Wheaties?
Jesus
Seriously, if you want to see how evil Christianity (and Judaism for that matter) is just check out the Bible. Just look at how it starts out. God creates man and woman and makes them ignorant of good and evil. Then when they sin, not only are they punished but so are all the animals and plants, and all their descendants. The common argument is that God wanted us to have free will, but does the Bible support this notion? Not really. Go look at what God does to Jonah when he chose not to be a prophet. Go read about how the Pharoah repeatedly agreed to let the Hebrew slaves go free and each time God overrode his free will and caused him to change his mind. To punish the Pharaoh for what God made him do, God sends plagues on the people of Egypt, as if they were somehow responsible. The plagues culminate in God killing off all the first born of all the people (and livestock) who aren't Hebrews. Most Christians will try to justify God killing babies. Of course this wasn't the first time He'd done this. He murdered all the babies on the planet in a global flood. He also murdered all the babies in Sodom and Gemorrah. Of course he saved Lot and his two daughters. Lot proved his righteousness by offering his daughters up to a crowd to be gang raped. The daughters proved their righteousness by starting a drunken orgy with their dad. But the babies needed killing. And Christians will justify this behavior. Abraham is another righteous man. He married his half-sister (apparently God was cool with that) and on a couple of occasions passed her off as his sister and let the King have sex with her. Now you think that God would be pissed at Abraham for pushing his wife into an adulterous affair, but God doesn't say a word against it. Instead He punished the king, his family, and his servants, for the king unknowlingly committing adultery. As the story progresses God commands Joshua to commit genocide against the Canaanites because they exercised their free will and worshipped differently from the Jews. The moral of the story is that it's okay to kill babies if God tells you to (oh yeah, Abraham was real quick to agree to murder his son Isaac when God demanded it). Isn't it just a bit scary to think that modern Christians believe they have a personal relationship to this God and that Jesus talks to them? What's Jesus telling them to do, murder more babies? The answer is yes, since we still see mothers killing their babies on God's say so. There's plenty more of God killing babies, Hebrews committing genocide, God torturing righteous people like Job. But then we come to the NT. Surely this is different. Jesus preached a message of love didn't he? Well, not really. He was rude to his mother on a few occassions (we probably didn't get to see all the times). He talked back to his father. He even said that his followers had to hate their families. He wouldn't even let one of his followers mourn a dead family member (though the hypocrite had no qualms about mourning his friend Lazarus). That's not the only time Jesus was a hypocrite. He condemned people who called others fools, but he himself called lots of people fools. Jesus wasn't the man of peace he claimed to be. He said he didn't come to bring peace but war and division to families. Probably the only prediction he made that actually came true. The Book of Revelation also has Jesus bringing death and destruction onto mankind. Jesus thought that people that weren't of his race were dogs. Jesus also said that the reason he spoke in parables was so that people wouldn't understand him and therefore go to Hell for eternity. In a way that doesn't matter because the only people who are getting saved are those whose names are written in the Book of Life. This book was written before anyone was born, so it doesn't really matter if you choose to be saved or not. If you want to be saved but your name isn't in the book then you're like a seed that falls on good soil but gets choked by weeds. Christians will also justify God's infinite punishment for finite sins (incidentally God created us weak so that there's nothing we can do to avoid sin on our own). Of course the culmination of God's plan is to have an innocent man tortured and brutally murdered for us. If God was a human we'd lock Him away for being a demented sociopath. Christianity is dangerous as amply demonstrated whenever Christians gather enough power to do what they want with impunity. The Jews do the same thing, of course. See Palestine. | |
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j-roc
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Joined: 5/24/2005
Msg: 19 | |
| Used to be Christian... now against it.
Posted: 10/30/2005 9:20:47 AM | I love your posts, Count.
He married his half-sister (apparently God was cool with that) God doesn't know what he wants, other then to contradict himself on a continious basis.
Leviticus 18:6 (NLT)
You must never have sexual relations with a close relative, for I am the LORD.
Then there is the story of Lots daughters getting him drunk and raping him while he was passed out, in Genesis 19. | |
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| Used to be Christian... now against it.
Posted: 10/30/2005 9:58:44 AM | "Christianity is dangerous as amply demonstrated whenever Christians gather enough power to do what they want with impunity. The Jews do the same thing, of course. See Palestine."
Almost all the religions I've come across do the same thing. No one (yet) understands the spiritual world so man makes it up then provides his own rules for how society should live. then, to make sure everyone listens, they throw in a heaven or hell. But then, a group of people without religion probably isn't any better.
Back to the original question. I'm still struggling, always have. I know a few people who grew up Catholic and now pretty much hate the religion but those are mostly reactions to close-mindedness and not learning more about their own religion. It would be nice to hear from people who really have a problem with scripture also, not just problems with the ones who taught them. | |
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| Used to be Christian... now against it.
Posted: 10/30/2005 3:20:40 PM | | Count, I would almost pay the fees for you to post that in the forum link that I gave you to see how they would respond. You are taking liberties with some verses though. I do not remember the King actually having sex with Abrahams wife, but showing a strong interest in her. Abraham was afraid he would be killed so the King could take his wife, so that is why he chose the logic that he did. The actions of Lot and his daughters, Abraham, Jonah, etc, are not examples of people living by God's laws. The Old Testament is filled with stories of people who chose not to listen to God and suffered the consequences for their decisions. In many instances, their lives show us how not to live rather than how to live. | |
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j-roc
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Joined: 5/24/2005
Msg: 22 | |
| Used to be Christian... now against it.
Posted: 10/30/2005 3:54:14 PM | RDtoo,
I thought the story of Lot was to show the importance of perserving the blood line....am I wrong ?
Also, we all stemmed from Adam and Eve....incest must of been condoned. | |
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| Used to be Christian... now against it.
Posted: 10/30/2005 7:53:06 PM |
I do not remember the King actually having sex with Abrahams wife, but showing a strong interest in her. Abraham was afraid he would be killed so the King could take his wife, so that is why he chose the logic that he did.
I'll have to go back and reread the passages to be certain. I'm pretty sure that the first time he did this there was sex, but you may be right about the second time. In any case God's wrath is directed at the king and his family, not Abraham who was the cause of the problem.
The Old Testament is filled with stories of people who chose not to listen to God and suffered the consequences for their decisions.
The point of the Lot reference is that God chose to destroy Sodom and Gemorrah because the people were unrighteous. But God chose the save Lot even after he offered up his daughters to be gang raped. God never punishes Lot for doing this. Lot's wife, OTOH, was turned into a pillar of salt for looking back at the cities in defiance of God's command. God was obviously willing to kill people off for minor infractions, but didn't kill Lot for offering his daughters to the violent mob. The message is quite clear: God didn't think that was wrong. | |
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| Used to be Christian... now against it.
Posted: 10/30/2005 8:25:57 PM | After studying history and the participation of the church in promoting slavery, murder, rape, theft, injustice and every other cardinal sin, I have walked away from supporting and participating in their little world.
Although the parables of the man Jesus provide lessons and can be seen as a gateway towards enlightenment, those who preach it, do not live it.
Churches are generally filled with hypocrites and sheep, people who are to lazy to look into their hearts and releaze that they need to treat others equally and do charitable acts because it is the right thing to do.
Religion is big business and works hand in hand with industry, military and government, it is soulless, a corporation that bows to the almighty dollar. | |
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| Used to be Christian... now against it.
Posted: 10/30/2005 8:57:48 PM | | all of you who have read it and deny it have sealed your own fate. You know the truth yet you CHOOSE to deny him.The sad part is you also want to take others with you. One's who may need him the most. I pity you i really do I spent long hours praying for you this past week and i will continue to. I dont understand this outright hatred of what some claim not to beleive. But do not fret he is still there and still loves you all he ask is you beleive in him nothing else. It is that simple. Why would you want to take a chance? I really would like a logical answer to this question or any answer at all will do. Just let me know why you would risk your immortal soul even if you dont beleive it exisit you have no proof either way in your eyes but in mine I have had my proof. I will be happy to share it with you anytime just drop me a line and ill tell you. I come to you in love and ask you to please reconsider it is a simple thing and you dont even have to admit you do. He is always just and forgiving and even more he is loving. I may sound like a preacher but im not I wont even pretend to be. I have encountered many reasons to doubt Christians. I worked in Christian television for years and I saw all the corruption all the pandering ect. but I do not bame God for what others have done or said in his name. I have a personal relatioship with him. I'm not a bible thumper by no means. I just love and care for my fellow man. I once again emplore of you PLEASE RECONSIDER I so want to walk those heavenly streets with you, all of you. | |
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