| I need opinions and advice re. my elderly folks.
Posted: 11/15/2005 1:55:49 PM | Just a bit of background: I sold my home in another city a year ago, put everything in storage and moved in with my folks here in the San Diego area to care for them. My mother is in late-midstage Alzheimer's, and my father is starting to show senility.
My father is the one I have trouble with because he is angry about their lot in life, very controlling and starting to fail mentally, but in denial about it and with a huge ego. So I have to tread very lightly when trying to either make changes or overrule a bad judgment call he's made.
So here is what I'd like opinions and advice on: I have grave concerns about his driving abilities. I ride with him and follow or lead with my car on occasion, and I note how he's doing. Over the past year or longer, he's done some things while driving that cause me concern, but I wouldn't say that overall his driving sucks or is crazy. I am ambivalent about when it's time to pull his driver's license because it's going to be a nightmare to do so (not that it wouldn't be if he was in an accident).
He has done things over the past year such as decide he wants to turn right and back into the car behind him while sitting at the light in an attempt to change lanes. Made illegal U-turns. Drive faster than I think is appropriate for his reaction time. Drove my car, then I later found a dent and paint marks on the back passenger wheel well. Left interior lights on druing a nighttime event, so they're stranded when they try to drive home. But today was an even bigger concern. I dropped my car off at the auto shop and he & Mom picked me up. The shop is about 5 miles NE of where we live. On the drive home, he turned right at an intersection we don't normally take. It seemed odd, but would get us home that way. Then he got in the left lane at a subsequent light to turn south to head home and apparently decided he should go right (northbound), and changed lanes while sitting at the light. He continued about 2 miles north. I did not inquire. I was afraid to, lest he lash out at me for his mistake, but wondered where we were going. Finally, my mother, who is so far gone she doesn't even know my name, asked where we were going! Even she sensed it wasn't toward home. I remarked that I wondered the same thing. He said, We're going home. Is this the wrong direction? Then he realized it, moved into another lane and made a legal U-turn at a light and said, "For Pete's Sake!"
Now, if I contact a doctor, the doctor will notify the DMV that he should have his license pulled. If I tell the DMV, they will summon him in for a pratical driving test, which he may be able to pass. If he loses his license, my folks have no way to get to the grocery store, doctor's appts (they have heaps at this age!), no mobility if they have an emergency, daycare, go out to eat (he can't cook worth chit, and I'm not there to fix dinner nightly now) and a myriad of other errands and obligations, because I'm at work all day until sometimes as late as 8 or 10 p.m. What do you think I should do? Do you think that dreaded day has come? | |
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| I need opinions and advice re. my elderly folks.
Posted: 11/15/2005 2:11:23 PM | Have you checked into any Social Service Agencies that may be able to help them out pgooperman>? ... If he's having those kinds of troubles, he probably shouldn't be driving... I'll never forget the elderly gentleman who accidentally hit the gas instead of the brake, in So. Cal., near an outdoor shopping area, and ran over and killed several people, including a young child..
Are you close enough to help them out some of the time>? It's a dilemma that's going to affect a lot of us "baby boomers"... Our aging society, and I'm sure there are agencies that can help out, although I'm also sure that it's a pain in the a## going through all the red tape. I would think it would be worth it though, to keep them, and others, safe....
Let us know if you find any kind of help... You have to know you're in this with a lot of other people trying to help care for elderly parents.
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| I need opinions and advice re. my elderly folks.
Posted: 11/15/2005 2:22:47 PM | Hi Live. Thanks loads! I sold my home in another city last year, put everything in storage, and moved in with them to care for them here in the San Diego area. I brought my dog and had been fostering their dog, so we also have two dogs to care for. Yikes! So I now live with them. I spent a year out of work concentrating on getting things in order here and getting them in a routine. She goes to daycare two days a week. My only sibling is deceased, so I have none to help me, and I have had to return to fulltime work.
I don't think a social service agency to bus them around is an option. It would be very difficult for them since they both move quite slowly, don't hear real well, she can barely communicate verbally and has incontinence, and he talks slowly. Maybe Meals on Wheels could help them since I can't cook every night cause of work, but their dog bites strangers. Ack! I'm afraid they won't take enough precautions on their own accord to be sure a delivery person doesn't get bit! Don't ask me to give up their dog. We would all be heartbroken cause we adore him even if he has issues! LOL
And yes, I too think of the man that mowed down 10 people at a sidewalk cafe in LA! OMG, do I EVER think about that! Scary chit! I don't mean to pose resistance to your suggestions, but these are the reasons I'm so ambivalent about pulling his license. I also have my weekly caregiver's group to bounce thoughts and concerns off of too, but that's not until tomorrow morn. | |
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| I need opinions and advice re. my elderly folks.
Posted: 11/15/2005 6:15:14 PM | If he lost his license tomorrow you would just have to help him and your mom deal with it, right? It would be hard, but you guys could figure stuff out, I'm sure. You really seem worried about safety (and don't forget that it's not just his and your mom's and yours, it's everyone on the road. God forbid he hurt or kill someone.) You do have the power to, in a sense, protect him from himself. I know sometimes it's hard to make the decisions that will end up complicating your life, but it really seems like you already know what you should do. In a way, the question could be seen as completely independent from the logistical difficulties. After all, people aren't GRANTED licenses for convenience...
Best of luck to you and your family. And god bless. | |
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| I need opinions and advice re. my elderly folks.
Posted: 11/15/2005 6:35:26 PM | Life's not fair. Possibly the city has senior taxi's, vans that pick up seniors and take them
to the doctor, store, etc.. for little or no fee at all.
They may qualify for meals on wheels, which will keep them from dealing with one more
thing than they need to worry about. See the meals on wheels people can almost act
as a 2nd set of eyes.
For that matter, so can a house cleaning service who comes in once a week and so can
the lawn boy.
If you have the burden by yourself, it might be worth it to you to "hire" someone for some rediculous weeky event to really just check on them. It will give you more peace of mind.
If something is obviously wrong, they can call the authorities.
What I have learned is that if a senior wants to fight the system; unless they have
ALREADY posed a threat to society, it is next to impossible to get help for them. The help is there, but their pride and paranoia won't let them accept it.
You have been brave to deal with it thus far, and I'm sure they appreciate you. But you
need a break too. | |
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| I need opinions and advice re. my elderly folks.
Posted: 11/15/2005 8:36:05 PM | Maybe an option would be a type of "respite" care, day care>> Where you can get a break once in a while and someone comes to their home >?
My son has some medical conditions, and if I hadn't been pointed in the right direction, I never would have had the help I did... They offered so many free things ((including letting me cry on their shoulders many times)).... One of the things offered however, was a type of "respite" care, so that my ex and I could get out of the house and not totally "lose our minds"...
I hope you find some kind of help ((there as to be something out there somewhere?)), because that's quite a load to carry... I hope you don't let it get to you.
You can always come on here and unload~~ | |
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| I need opinions and advice re. my elderly folks.
Posted: 11/16/2005 3:25:15 AM | | Wow...it's hard isn't it? But you know, you need to do what is right, and I think you know the answer in your heart. There are options available, there are seniors societies that will drive, there are meals on wheels organizations etc. Call your local social services department, and talk to them, they can offer lots of suggestions. Good luck :) - and even though your dad will probably be pretty mad at you, he is goign to know you did it out of love, and will come around eventually! | |
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| I need opinions and advice re. my elderly folks.
Posted: 11/16/2005 5:47:22 AM | it is nice to see someone taking great care of their parents and willing to move back home to take care of their elderly parents. I am kinda on the same boat except that my parents are still doing fine. Although my dad is reaching his 70s. Old people are stubborn and they hate to loose control of what they have. I've debate about my dad driving and I had mention to him and and my mom that I want them to stop driving in a few years. Point out the positives:
1. they don't have to pay insurance for the car or gas
2. They won't be nagged to be the driver for their grandkids..
3. It cheaper just to get a bus pass.
Off course my dad rejected the idea when he first heard of it but I've been revisit the idea a few times already and he starting cave in... don't force them or anything .. just limit the opportunity that require them to drive.. and once he get use to not driving much, he would then be more willing to stop driving.
It is difficult to live with our parents when they reach a certain age but I guess it a small price for all the years they put up with us when we were kids. | |
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| I need opinions and advice re. my elderly folks.
Posted: 11/16/2005 6:15:40 AM | I have been in your shoes and you have a very VERY tough road ahead. Make the choices NOW. Sit down with your father, be honest and straight forward. Explain your reasons and your concerns. Act in love and all will work out. I will NOT be easy but please do not hesitate now as it will only get much much harder.
You may find some info here helpful
http://www.alz.org/
I know of only one disease that I find more hideous then Alzheimer's. It will steal someone from you while leaving them here. Please enjoy the "moments" you still have with your mother because way way too soon they will be taken from you forever! | |
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| I need opinions and advice re. my elderly folks.
Posted: 11/16/2005 8:11:33 AM | Thank you, everyone, for your generous support and advice. I am already involved in an Alzheimer's caregiver's support group and have been since moving here a year ago. My mother goes to daycare two days a week (I wish I could convince my father to bump that to 3.), I even sit on a San Diego County Caregiver's Coalition, whose sole purpose is to help caregivers. So I know the importance of respite and what resources are available to my folks and me, and I take advantage of a lot of those resources. In addition, we already have cleaning ladies come to our home, and I since I live with my folks, I see them day and night when I'm not at work, so it's not like they live alone with no one to check on them. I'm already pretty well connected to the San Diego County resources and aging and independence community.
I'm just sooo struggling with pulling my father's driver's license, which is what I'm asking advice and opinions on. I haven't even brought myself yet to discuss with my father his lapse of lucidity yesterday while driving. I guess I just want to be sure I don't pull his license BEFORE it's necessary—nor too late. I wanted your opinion, from what I've shared with you, as to whether it sounds like it's time yet. 99% of the time his driving seems okay. A few weeks ago, he and a caregiver friend went down to a Padres game at Petco Park. He insisted on driving. Our friend asked me if I thought Dad was okay to drive. I said I thought so. She later told me he did fine on the 45 minute highway & city drive.
LostWords, here in Calif. there is a contract an elderly person can sign with their loved ones, stating that when their loved ones deem that it's time for the elderly person to stop driving, they will abide by that decision. Not sure if there's anything like that available where you are or not.
Jazz, I know I have a tough road ahead, and I've been on that road for a few years already with my folks. Honestly, I may be in the most dangerous intersection of that road right now. If my mom goes into a facility, no longer caring for both of them will make life easier for me and reduce stress on my father, but we have made a choice to keep Mom here with us as long a humanly possible. It's what we both want because I do value every day I still have with her and those fleeting moments of lucidity she experiences.
Thank you again for taking the time to read my lengthy posts and offer advice!!
Petunia G. | |
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| I need opinions and advice re. my elderly folks.
Posted: 11/16/2005 8:19:09 AM | | I sympathize, and of course respect you for the responsibilities you've undertaken. In Colorado a gazillion year old driver gets a license and doesn't need to renue it for 10 years. And then there is no test, just a renual through the mail. I think licensing for seniors needs to be evaluated far more often than it is. If you truly believe your Dad is a danger on the road as hard as it is to face you need to do the right thing sooner than later. | |
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| I need opinions and advice re. my elderly folks.
Posted: 11/16/2005 8:53:26 AM | I would appreciate it if he was sidelined from traffic, since I don't want his impaired driving turning into my accidental death.
Is there some way he can be given a driving test? I know some places have them for you as you age, so you can tell when it's time to stop driving. Maybe if it's in another state, you could make him an appointment and send him on his way there, so if he shows up for the test it would be redundant to take it. My folks take a yearly or biennial test of some sort in order to keep their insurance premiums low. I don't know if it has an actual driving component or just some reflex and mental acuity tests. It shouldn't be too hard for a doctor to evaluate his faculties relating to driving ability. Throw a tennis ball at his head and see if he ducks in time, for example. | |
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| I need opinions and advice re. my elderly folks.
Posted: 11/16/2005 9:56:30 AM | Petunia,
You may have to just sit down with dad and be very assertive and tell him that there are times when you feel it is not safe for him to drive and that the time is coming when he will lose that ability. This is HUGE for most people it is their last vestage of independence.
Caring for an Alzheimer's patient is extraordinarily taxing I wish you the best! | |
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| I need opinions and advice re. my elderly folks.
Posted: 11/16/2005 12:19:32 PM | You're a good lady for doing so much for your parents.
Have you checked what Social Services can provide for seniors?
Can your parents afford to take taxis to get around rather than risk an accident. It may even be reasonably cost-effective since they won't have to pay for upkeep of a car, insurance, etc. You can also Google Senior Transportation San Diego to find organizations which can help - e.g., http://www.jewishfamilyservicesd.org/pages/body_transportation.htm.
You may also want to check out home help / medical care organizations:
http://www.carelevel.com (These folks are running a pilot study paid for by Medicare. You could check if your parents are on their list)
http://www.heritageseniorcare.signonsandiego.com/
http://www.innovativehc.com/questions.html
Maybe you also need to check with some dog trainers to see what advice you can get on keeping their dog under control. Pets are important, but you can't afford to have them get in the way of your parent's health and safety.
Good luck. | |
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| I need opinions and advice re. my elderly folks.
Posted: 11/16/2005 5:41:18 PM | Girllygirl just took the words out of my mouth.... I work in the medical field, and many people have been in the same dilemma. Believe it or not, it's even hard for a doctor (one who is compassionate, anyway), to pull someone's driver's license. But, that's sometimes what it takes, and they will do it...
It's great to hear how involved you are and your parents are sooo very lucky to have you pgooperman.... | |
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| I need opinions and advice re. my elderly folks.
Posted: 11/16/2005 6:34:08 PM | You aren't the one that would pull his license. If it will make it easier for you, just talk to his doctor and leave it up to him/her... or the dmv.
Absolutely, I agree. I work with seniors, many of them with varying degrees of dementia and Alzheimer's. I will answer your question very simplistically......yes it is time for your fathers drivers license to be pulled, for his safety and everyone else on the road. He will feel anger, as he will feel his last little bit of independence is being taken away from him. This is very normal and he will get over it in time.
I'm from Canada, so I'm not sure what your different services are called there, but here we have a mode of transportation specifically for the very ill, handicapped and geriatric population. It's called 'Handy Dart' and is part of our local public transportation. The bus comes right to your door, picks you up and takes you right to the door of where you need to go, whether it is to the shopping mall, Doctors office or a friends home for a visit. It really is a wonderful service, and they are wheelchair equipped. We also have community nursing that go into the home, do an assessment on the person needing more assistance and then home care is arranged, whether that would be personal care, meal prep or light housecleaning. It's wonderful you are being pro-active and have been going to Alzheimer support groups and learning all you can about this awful and debilitating degenerative disease that steals the very essence and soul from our loved ones. The only thing I would like to caution you about is being careful not to get burnt out, which happens all the time with caregivers.
What you have done for your parents is so very heartwarming. Big hugs for you! | |
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| I need opinions and advice re. my elderly folks.
Posted: 11/16/2005 8:43:37 PM | OMG, you are all just too nice to take the time to read all this and take the time to talk to me about it. TY TY TY!!!! I spoke today to the leader of my caregiver's support group, and she said that even if I go to his doctor or Dept. of Motor Vehicles, the most they can do is order up a driving test for him. I suspect he would pass it because it's not going to be apparent that he, on occasion, becomes directionally confused. So that's about the best I can do.
The caregiver friend that went to the baseball game with him took him out to lunch today and talked around the subject with him (other's coincidentally also discussed the topic in caregiver's group today!), and she said he appears to have NO CLUE that anyone would have concerns about his driving abilities.
Unnamedsource, you slay me with the tennis ball scenario. I assure you his reaction time would be slow and he'd get bopped in the head! Amazingly, he plays tennis weekly, but I think it's just four guys standing around waiting for the ball to be hit right to one another. LOLOL!
Jazz, I KNOW I need to sit down and talk to him about it, but it's going to be a huge fight. Ack!!! I so don't wanna fight with him!
Quiet, thank you for all the site links. I could go to Google and do a similar search, and I listened with interest when discussion arose today about commuting and food delivery services in our area. I will definitely check out the links you posted. Saves me some time, so TY again!
I know I should seek a dog behaviorist for help with our "pitbull disguised as a dust mop."  I know I can control him, but I'm concerned that they will have a lapse in control when I'm not here. That dog has issues, I tell ya! LOL Although some folks at caregiver's group today said that some food delivery services will actually leave your meals in styrofoam outside your front door. I need to check into that because it could alleviate that concern.
Thanks for all the generous kudos for caring for my folks. They have always been there for me, and I want to be here for them now that they need me, and they are aware and appreciate what I'm doing. That is my reward! I know I have to be careful about burnout. I date (When I can get a date! Ha!), and work is somewhat of a respite for me. I enjoy my job and it gets me away from them. I went out for a leisurely lunch today (my day off), and I try to protect myself from the stresses of caregiving.
Honestly, it is relatively easy caring for my mom. She is compliant and such a sweetheart. She is so helpless. It's my father that is the difficult one, and he exhibits only moderate cognative deficits (senility), but he's got a huge ego, is in denial and is very controlling, despite his obvious lapses. Argh!
Anyway, I can still see the humor in it all! The stories I could tell about this whacky household... OMG. I'll keep you posted about the situation, but I suspect that it's not going to be as simple as MY or anyone else simply pulling his license. I may not have a say in it other than seeing that he gets tested for mental capacity as well as driving skills.
Petunia G. | |
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| I need opinions and advice re. my elderly folks.
Posted: 11/20/2005 8:59:12 PM | I used to work as a care giver through the state of Oregon. Go through your nearest senior services and let them know of your delima and their medical problems. Most of the time the state can either pay for or help pay for cooking, cleaning, medication management and personal care giving (including bathing) until you're there. The really good ones won't even wonder at dad's attitude. They'll know. People in Oregon have a background check and usually go through some sort of training program. (I didn't have to do the training program because I had so much experience.) They can even pay someone to take them to medical appointments or send a mini bus to their door. (Re: driving - a third option. Hide the car keys. You don't want them making headlines because they made a wrong turn, got lost, killed or killed someone else. He still has his "license" and you have the keys.) My very best to you! You are an angel.  I know you have a full time job there! P.S. Remember to take care of yourself, too. More care givers get sick and depressed than you know. Find a support group for yourself, too! | |
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