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| Age of consent laws:Outdated?
Posted: 11/23/2005 3:26:26 PM | I know I'm gonna get flamed for this one and I know age of consent laws vary from state to state and different in other countries than the USA but here goes:
I was covering a story today,this morning I get sent to the county jail,there is a courtroom there where people who were arrested the night before make their first appearance.There was a guy among the crowd I recognized,an old friend I used to work with at the video store a few years ago.At the time I worked with him,he was in college working on a degree in education.The next time I saw him was at my daughter's high school,where he had gained part time work as a basketball and voleyball coach and part time tutor.His future looked bright.He was arrested for having sex with one of his students a 15 year old,and he was put under a 125,000 dollar bond.There goes his career before it got started.
Now while what he did was wrong,does he really deserve to face lengthy jail time?Don't get me wrong here,I hate pedophiles,they should be skinned alive,castrated and impaled up the butt on a long wooden stake and left for the buzzards and other scavengers to feed from,but is this the case of a pedophile here?I think not.My friend is guilty of a gross error in judgement,a stupid as I call it a "dee dee dee" as Carlos Mencia puts it,but is he in the same category as a kiddie diddler?Have you seen many of the 15 year olds in the average American public high school?Now I am a father of two girls,one a teenager and I can tell you there is nothing innocent about many of these girls,many of them are 15 going on 35 if you know what I mean.
There was another case a few years ago where a guy picked up a girl in a BAR.A place where she used a FAKE ID to get in.This guy picks her up,thinking she's 22 and the next morning an angry dad has him arrested.Last I heard he got 10 years or something like that.Did he deserve that???It's one thing if a guy commits rape or seduces a young person and uses alcohol or drugs to do so,another thing entirly if the girl has been ridden more times than Seabiscuit and it's mutually consentual.
North American culture wants to keep people children as long as they can.No responsibility until they're 18 and even then limited.An 18 year old can carry a gun into battle but he can't legally drink a beer,go figure.As I said,I am a parent,I have two girls.I will defend either of them to the death if some scumbag takes advantage of them,but I won't skirt their end of the responsibility if they have a part in the mischief.Having sex with a minor is stupid,irresponsible and wrong but should a guy,who for all intents and purposes is guilty only of thinking with the little head and not the big head have to face hard prison time?Is the guy who dinks a s lutty 15 year old the same as a child molester? | |
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| Age of consent laws:Outdated?
Posted: 11/23/2005 3:38:55 PM | Yes i believe he should be held responsible for his actions, she was ONLY 15 years old!! ya know, i know kids are having sex earlier in life, but he is an ADULT, he can enter into a binding agreement, where a child under 18 years old can NOT, wanna know why?? do i need to explain.. I'm sure you are upset because you thought this guy was a "stand up kinda guy".. if he has no control over his "little head" then he shouldn't be walking around with it should he??? but i damn sure don't think you should be calling a 15 year girl a slut for what happened.. is your friend a slut too??? I do not believe we should cut ANYONE any slack! Alot of people think.. well hell i'm not doing anything wrong if i dont' get caught.. WRONG, he KNEW how old the child was, he was her freaking teacher for god's sake!!! He will now and forever be looked upon as a sexual predator. maybe that is why he wanted this "career" to start off with?? I know you sometimes think you know someone.. but most people don't wear their sexual urges on their sleeves!!! I've browsed the internet just to see what sex offenders lived near me, ALOT of them look like nice old grand pappys!! Hell even one of my middle school boyfriend's turned out to be a sex offender... because he dated someone under age..
It really makes me think.. what there mentality is when they go after the young young ones.. is the virtuous look???
But on the flip side, I also believe that if a child entices a grown person, and it can be PROVED, then they should also be held accountable, for fraud or whatever reason.. it takes two to tango thats for damn sure.. big difference between rape and consenting.. | |
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| Age of consent laws:Outdated?
Posted: 11/23/2005 3:41:47 PM | Outdated?
No... I don't think so!
In fact, they keep reducing the age limit for giving consent... which disgusts me!
Frig, the little buggars should wait to have sex... I had to!
Honestly, I don't think at 15 anyone is READY for sex... and whether they're practicing safe sex or not, pregnancy is always a RISK. The only birth control that I've heard of which works with 100% accuracy is abstinance.
Now... as for someone who hasn't reached consentual age deceiving a partner... that's wrong. A jury should not convict someone who didn't know. But, with all things in life, not everything is fair... sad, but true. I guess that's one more item I'll add to my list of "Reasons not to pick up in a bar." | |
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| Age of consent laws:Outdated?
Posted: 11/23/2005 3:49:12 PM | | As a coach this man was in a POSITION OF TRUST. I know that kids are sexually active younger and younger these days, but what he did was just plain wrong. Who was the adult in this situation? If we excused men for everything they do wrong when they were thinking with their little head...well...I guess the prisons would have far fewer sex offenders in them. What was this guy THINKING? He deserves whatever he gets. And as for a guy who "dinks" with a "slutty 15 year old" it is close enough to pedophilia for government work. | |
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longte
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Joined: 10/18/2004
Msg: 6 | |
| Age of consent laws:Outdated?
Posted: 11/23/2005 3:49:46 PM | No they are not the same as a child molester in most cases
But and this is a very important BUT
The line has to be drawn somewhere
If the age is lowered to say 15, then people will say the same thing about 14 year olds and so on
So it is just a number that has to be adhered to
He does sound as though he was a total idiot
Probably knew she was too young and went ahead anyway
There is a huge difference between two 15 year olds have sex, and a 25 and 15 yr old having sex [for example]
In the second case it should be grounds for child abuse charges as the 15 yr old is vulnerable
to most 25yr olds, no matter what their prior history is
With the meeting in a hotel situation, the best and really only defense, is to get her dressed identically in court
Total sympathy for anyone caught by this type of situation
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| Age of consent laws:Outdated?
Posted: 11/23/2005 3:53:51 PM | ^^^ well.. it happens everyday.. but i'd say what 70 % of grown men have some form of restraint.. they tell their "little head" .. now if you're thinking about getting this piece of a.ss.. then you remember its gonna cost you 15 years in the long run.. then you'll turn into that young fresh piece of ass..
Yep.. if i were a guy.. that would totally be my restraint.. | |
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| Age of consent laws:Outdated?
Posted: 11/23/2005 4:11:57 PM |
In Canada the age of consent is 14. That is SO wrong. I wish our laws were like yours
Actually I find Canada's consent laws among the better of the countries. Actually it is only 14 when the person is not in a position of authority. This leaves the law open for 'grey area' which allows the law to keep the bad people locked up, and the not so bad people not locked up. This stipulation is that the person can not be in a position of authority. If so, the age of consent is actually 18. What is considered authority? Thats open for interpretation. Of course the obvious (teachers, parents, bosses, community leaders, police, etc. are assumed) (such as this persons post/teacher friend/student)
Is 14 and 15 too young to be having sex. Definately. But it's the reality. Should an 18 year old be having sex with a 15 year old? Well.. assuming the 15 yr old is the female, I don't think the mental/decision making maturity levels are all that different. Should a 25 year old be having sex with a 15 year old? Hell NO!
I just hate the laws in the states where a boyfriend and girlfriend who have been dating for 5 years and the guy turns 18 on the 1st of December has sex with his 17 year old girlfriend (who turns 18 on the 2nd of December) and then goes to jail for 5 years with a statitory rape charge.
I think there needs to be an understanding of the whole situation before prosecution. That's why I prefer the laws in Canada. | |
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| Age of consent laws:Outdated?
Posted: 11/23/2005 4:14:41 PM | | well all i can say i guess is stay out of the states then if you like em that young lol | |
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| Age of consent laws:Outdated?
Posted: 11/23/2005 4:23:59 PM | I think it is necessary to implement a general consensus as to what age is considered appropriate for sexual activity but with an age discrepancy outweighing the 20's to a teenager, well there is a big gap there. I think teens should stick with teens and adults should stick with adults.
The canadian laws are interesting but we apparently have less rape reported here. Then again, we are a smaller country. I'm not aware of the true stats around sexual crimes in Canada so I can't give a proper opinion on that.
Anotheraviator...good to see you on the boards.  | |
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| Age of consent laws:Outdated?
Posted: 11/23/2005 4:36:43 PM |
Actually I find Canada's consent laws among the better of the countries. Actually it is only 14 when the person is not in a position of authority.
As long as the girl says she consented the law can do nothing unless the person is a doctor, teacher, etc. And since most guys convince the girls that their relationship is "love", it is rare for the girl to deny consent. Sad, but true. The National just had a special on CBC just a couple days ago about this topic. | |
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| Age of consent laws:Outdated?
Posted: 11/23/2005 4:57:12 PM | You know, im going to get alot of shit for this, but I mildly agree with the OP.
And im only saying this, because my sister is 16, lives with me, and i know alot of her friends, they are over hear alot. Ive become "friends" with these girls, not because i want to , but because they look up to me, and im just..well, Im Me.
They ALL and i mean all, dress sexy and alluring. I know that they frequent places where there are older, more mature guys, and they approach them, lying about their age, and trying to get these guys to take them home. Take them to movies, dinners, buy them things.
They dotn realize that they are LITTLE GIRLS and have no right acting like this. I have spoken with them many times.
They know what they are doing, and i suspect that your "friend" was taken by this 15 year old. SHe was probably more willing than he was, i suspect. BUT he's an adult and should of known better.
When i was in highschool, i knew quite a few people who had sex with older men.....when they are 14, 15, 16, sleeping with guys in their 20's. When I asked about it, theyre replay was mostly always, well, he'll take care of me. Buy me presents, he has a CAR! how cool!! and when asked about possibly getting pregnant, their reply was always, Oh well, he has a job, he can take care of me and the baby, so im not worried.
Where do these girls get these ideas? I think that in the cases of "underage" sex acts, the girls should be equally responbily, however PROVEN to be responsible. They're not stupid.
If its known that the guy took advantage of her, then its his fault. If he raped her, then definately.
15, 16 year olds lie ALOT about their age, more often than people realize. They do it to fit in with older "cooler" people, and dont fully realize what they are getting into, until theyre having sex in their home, and mom or dad comes in and call the cops. And i'll bet you not one of them have remorse or feel bad for lying, ect. SO much blame is on the man, and not so much on the girls who are the so called Victim.
Please dont hate me. lol | |
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| Age of consent laws:Outdated?
Posted: 11/23/2005 5:36:58 PM | Its pretty simple Dude. She was underage and he is old enough to act responsibly and have willpower. Doesn't matter how attractibe she is. He knew better, we all know better.
Its not a matter of consent as someone else suggested. Its a matter of wisdom and maturity to make good decisions, and its very rare indeed for a 15yo to even have a clue. | |
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| Age of consent laws:Outdated?
Posted: 11/23/2005 5:40:20 PM | Taurus, your friend had sex with a student. If your daughter, who goes to the same high scholl where your friend works, had sex with a teacher, would you view it in the same light as you do this situation? If your friend was truly a stand-up guy, he would have realized that his position was supposed to be one of trust and mentoring with regard to the students, and if someone takes advantage of their postion to further their own gains, then they must face the consequences. What if he had been a guard in a juvenile detention facilty and had been found having sex with a detainee?
Abuse of trust is just that, no matter what the position is that you're exploiting. The fact that a girl has been with one man or a hundred men does not make her the one at fault. Maybe your friend had a lapse in judgement but sadly, lapses in judgement often lead to hard consequences. He did the crime, now he has to face the time. | |
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| Age of consent laws:Outdated?
Posted: 11/23/2005 5:46:10 PM | I once met a young American guy who ended up fooling around with a girl at church (of all places). He is now a registered sex offender.
I don't remember the ages but he was awfully young standing there in front of me telling his story, and I couldn't help feeling sorry for him for having to pay such a heavy price for the rest of his life because of a youthful indescretion. | |
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| Age of consent laws:Outdated?
Posted: 11/23/2005 7:24:15 PM | I just want to say so far I've read every reply to this post and I'm quite impressed!Intelligent and thoughtful responses,thank you.First of all,yes,the guy did wrong he deserves something.His career is over and that is how it should be.With every profession comes certain obligations and responsibilities and he knew that going in.The judge even mentioned that.But with the horrible overcrowding of prisons and the fact that prison would not help this man but would destroy any chances of him turning his life back on track,this would not be the answer either.
Certainly there must be standards and lines drawn,but there also should be some leeway for individual cases.In a perfect world both of these individuals deserve some responsibility for their actions and some help,some counseling or something.
To answer the question of how I would feel if it were my daughter,it would all depend on what part my daughter played.I would certainly be upset and concerned but I would not automatically assume that my daughter was completely innocent just because she was my daughter.
In talking to people from other areas of the world,I feel that perhaps in American culture we try to keep people children too long,trying to shelve responsibilities by citing self esteem issues.I remember covering a story in the 80's where a prominant educator was looking into a new form of education where failing grades were done away with,because failure destroyed a child's self esteem.It's thinking like that I feel has led to us having a society of 30 somethings who can't manage their life.I personally know a lot of intelligent,creative and educated adults who simply cannot manage basic life skills.
I agree this guy should never be allowed to be around kids again professionally and needs some punitve correction.Yet since this was consentual and the girl played an active,willing part,then she's not innocent in this either.What kind of message do you send to kids when you tell them they can be absolved of all transgression as long as they are under 18? | |
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PA!GE®
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Joined: 11/9/2005
Msg: 18 | |
| Age of consent laws:Outdated?
Posted: 11/23/2005 7:38:33 PM | Actually I find Canada's consent laws among the better of the countries. Actually it is only 14 when the person is not in a position of authority
Better? A 60 year old man can have sex with my 14 yr old daughter. What is better than that?
And yes I am aware that that 60 yr old man cannot be her teacher or a cop etc
Our consent laws go further. The age of consent for anal sex is 18 for both people if the parties are not married to each other | |
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| Age of consent laws:Outdated?
Posted: 11/23/2005 7:41:49 PM | I have 4 children and for the past three years I've been their one and only parent. The twenty-year-old daughter and the eighteen-year-old son are pretty much on their own and though I would protect them from harm to the death, they are not under my control.
I still have twin fourteen-year-old daughters under my wing and one of them is an up-and-coming soccer star. Because games happen out-of-town and I don't have a car, she sometimes sleeps over at the coach's house so they can hit the road at 6:00 a.m. for Saturday's game.
I know the man, I trust him. One of his daughters is on the same team and the coach and my daughter are never alone in the house. I pray to God I'm not being gullible here, but I'm OK with this situation.
If he ever laid a hand on my girl, I would walk heaven and earth to bring him to justice.
Mine or the court's or otherwise. The dividing line in that situation doesn't exist.
As it happens, my girls aren't doing the 14 going on 34 thing. You can question that until the cows come home, but I know it's true. And even if they were, I would still find her coach culpable for taking advantage of her innocence, youth and ignorance.
Castration is too little too late for a male coach who chooses sex with a girl (or boy) he is training. Take the same guidelines and apply them to a therapist or doctor or lawyer or cop or priest. No way, no how.
We teach our children that there is evil in the world but they can count on finding the good in a few select people.
Should the "good guys" screw up, we then have more complicated lessons to teach, but sanctioning their evil should never have to be explained. | |
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| Age of consent laws:Outdated?
Posted: 11/23/2005 7:45:10 PM | | I'd be fine in Canada if the age of consent was say 17..hell I wasnt 16 until I started showing an interest in guys who were a tad bit older and such | |
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| Age of consent laws:Outdated?
Posted: 11/23/2005 7:46:00 PM | | Taurus? Just answer one question. If it was your daughter, and it was her coach at school and she was only 15 having "consentual sex" what would your thoughts be? | |
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| Age of consent laws:Outdated?
Posted: 11/23/2005 7:56:41 PM | | Me and a couple of my female friends were talking about this same subject a couple of weeks ago.I feel the girls thats posing like their older should get punished as well.I dont think its a fair at all.I think older men that chase young girls are disgusting,but lets be real about this.Decades ago the same thing was going on,and it was overlooked.Now the law only blames the man.Underage girls that have sex with grown men-for whatever reason should get mandated to get some sorta counseling----and also be on some kind kind of probation--they should be labeled.Its only fair men are going away for 7-10 years----their lives are damn near ruined afterwards----why let these lil hoochie mamas off scott free | |
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| Age of consent laws:Outdated?
Posted: 11/23/2005 8:13:31 PM | ok girls that make older men believe they're older as well should be punished along with the men, the men dont' really know whats up.
now as far as a 15 y.o. and a grown man? dude i'm 22 and i wouldnt' even have sex with a 15 and i'm going to be a teacher as well and to be in a position where the parents trust you and you do their child? thats more wrong than anything.
not only that but the gap in life experience and age is overwhelming
I'm glad you're friend is facing prision time, i hope you know as well as your friend knows that child molesters are the most hated in prision and your buddy better be ready to get his ass kicked on a daily basis, raped, tortured adn probably killed at somepoint.
he might deserve that much punishment but he's gonna get it if anyone finds out.
remember even criminals no matter murderers, bank robbers, racial supremesits have a moral code and that is no harming or children, your friend violated this code adn he will pay in blood | |
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| Age of consent laws:Outdated?
Posted: 11/23/2005 8:56:05 PM | | I keep reading about people having sex younger and younger these days. I grew up in the sixties and seventies, and it seemed like we were all screwing like bunnies. Also, I think that it is society that dictates that someone is too young to have sex. My aunts and uncles were getting married at fourteen and fifteen. They were cajuns, and this was normal in an agricultural society. I'm not defending the man in question. He was in a position of trust, and what he did was inexcusable. | |
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PA!GE®
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Joined: 11/9/2005
Msg: 25 | |
| Age of consent laws:Outdated?
Posted: 11/23/2005 9:00:52 PM |
why let these off scott free
and suppose this "lil hoochie mama" is a 12 year old girl who was molested by Daddy for years and this is how she is reacting because let me tell you it is not unusual
And please dont tell me that if a 30 yr old man takes his eyes off her over developed body for 5 mins and looks at her face, he cant tell shes just a kid | |
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