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| Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 11/25/2005 2:00:39 PM | Our family believes as a small handfull of others do that there are special blessings Yahweh bestows on families who have more than one wife.
The world considers this to be immoral, illegal, and just wrong.
How can something that has been in the bible and practiced by numerous biblical patriarchs such as Moses, Abraham, David, and many countless others be wrong?
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funn1
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Joined: 1/8/2005
Msg: 2 | |
| Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 11/25/2005 2:11:26 PM | The bible says God winks at our times of ignorance. God says we should have only one wife/husband
1 Timothy 3:2
A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1 Timothy 3:12
Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
Titus 1:6
If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
This should do, there are more scriptures if needed. | |
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| Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 11/25/2005 2:47:33 PM | Paul wrote that it is better not to marry at all. But to avoid the burning of our passions without release, to marry is not a sin. Let every man have his own wife, and every woman her own husband. not a man have two or more wives, where the woman must share her husband with another woman. I Corinthians 7:1,2. In the old testament, men lived in a state of feudalism, women were considered property, and they had no rights in marriage in Israel. Jesus Emphasized how wrong that was, didn't he?
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funn1
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Joined: 1/8/2005
Msg: 4 | |
| Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 11/25/2005 2:53:55 PM | | Benjamin Franklin was ask one time to show where in the bible it said you could have only one wife, he said thats easy, no man can serve to masters.....=-} | |
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| Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 11/25/2005 3:05:39 PM | And a woman should be able to have two or three husbands. Or two women and three men, or three women and two men. Whatever works for the people involved seems fine to me, as long as everyone is a free and equal participant in the relationship.
I don't think the bible can tell us much about this. It has more to do with social conventions and pressures, and pschological issues. It's easy to imagine a society where a woman having multiple husbands would be the rule rather than the exception. For example, a fictional situation that exemplifies this is Robert Heinlein's "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress." At the least, it's a fun and mind-stretching read. | |
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funn1
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Joined: 1/8/2005
Msg: 6 | |
| Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 11/25/2005 3:23:51 PM | I don't think the bible can tell us much about this.
Did you see the above scriptures? The bible is very clear on it. | |
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| Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 11/25/2005 6:09:48 PM | | Your quotes from Timothy apply only to the clergy so they aren't of much use in answering the question. The quote in Titus applies to ordained elder (Titus 1:5 supplies the context). So any quotes that apply to the common person? | |
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| Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 11/25/2005 7:14:51 PM | I Corinthians 7:1,2. In the old testament, men lived in a state of feudalism, women were considered property, and they had no rights in marriage in Israel. Jesus Emphasized how wrong that was, didn't he?
But of those things that ye have written to me, it is good to a man to touch not a woman [it is good to a man for to not touch a woman].
2 But for fornication each man have his own wife, and each woman have her own husband.
3 The husband yield debt to the wife, and also the wife to the husband.
4 The woman hath not power of her body, but the husband; [also forsooth] and the husband hath not power of his body, but the woman [but the wife].
5 Do not ye defraud each to other [Do not defraud together], but peradventure of consent for a time, that ye give attention to prayer; and again turn again to the same thing, lest Satan tempt you for your uncontinence.
6 But I say this thing as giving leave, not by commandment. *
7 For I will, that all men be as myself. But each man hath his proper gift of God; one thus, and another thus.
8 But I say to them, that be not wedded, and to widows [and widows], it is good to them, if they dwell so as I.
9 And if they contain not themselves, be they wedded; for it is better to be wedded, than to be burnt.
10 But to them that be joined in matrimony, I command, not I, but the Lord, that the wife depart not from the husband;
11 and that if she departeth, that she dwell unwedded, or be reconciled to her husband; and the husband forsake not the wife.
12 But to others I say, not the Lord. If any brother hath an unfaithful wife, and she consenteth to dwell with him, leave he her not [If any brother have an unfaithful, or heathen, wife, and she consent for to dwell with him, leave he, or forsake, her not].
13 And if any woman hath an unfaithful husband [And if the woman hath an husband unfaithful], and this consenteth to dwell with her, leave she not the husband.
14 For the unfaithful husband is hallowed by the faithful woman, and the unfaithful woman is hallowed by the faithful husband. Else your children were unclean, but now they be holy.
15 That if the unfaithful departeth, depart he. For why the brother or sister is not subject to servage in such; for God hath called us in peace.
16 And whereof knowest thou, woman, if thou shalt make the man safe; or whereof knowest thou, man, if thou shalt make the woman safe?
17 But as the Lord hath parted to each, and as God hath called each man, so go he, as I teach in all churches. **
18 A man circumcised is called, bring he not to prepuce. A man is called in prepuce, be he not circumcised.
19 Circumcision is nought, and prepuce is nought, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
20 Each man in what calling he is called, in that dwell he.
21 Thou servant art called, be it no charge to thee [Thou a servant art called, be it not charge to thee]; but if thou mayest be made free, use it rather.
22 He that is a servant, and is called in the Lord, is a free man of the Lord. Also [and] he that is a free man, and is called, is the servant of Christ.
23 With price ye be bought; do not ye be made servants of men.
24 Therefore each man in what thing he is called a brother, dwell he in this with God. [Each man therefore in what calling he is called, in that dwell he with God.]
25 But of virgins I have no commandment of God; but I give counsel, as he that hath gotten mercy of the Lord, that I be true.
26 Therefore I guess, that this thing is good for the present need; for it is good to a man to be so [for it is good for a man to be so].
27 Thou art bound to a wife, do not thou seek unbinding; thou art unbound from a wife, do not thou seek a wife.
28 But if thou hast taken a wife, thou hast not sinned; and if a maiden is wedded, she sinned not; nevertheless such shall have tribulation of flesh. But I spare you.
29 Therefore, brethren [And so, brethren], I say this thing, The time is short. Another is this, that they that have wives, be as though they had none;
30 and they that weep, as they wept not; and they that joy, as they joyed not; and they that buy, as they had not;
31 and they that use this world, as they that use [it] not. For why the figure of this world passeth. ***
32 But I will, that ye be without busyness [Forsooth I will you to be without busyness], for he that is without wife, is busy what things be of the Lord, how he shall please God.
33 But he that is with a wife, is busy what things be of the world, how he shall please the wife [how he shall please his wife], and he is parted.
34 And a woman unwedded and * maiden thinketh what things be of the Lord, that she be holy in body and spirit. But she that is wedded, thinketh what things be of the world, how she shall please the husband [how she shall please her husband].
35 And I say these things to your profit, not that I cast to you a snare, but to that that is seemly, and that giveth easiness, without hindering to make prayers to the Lord. [Soothly I say these things to your profit, not that I cast to you a snare, but to that that is honest, and that giveth facility, or easiness, without letting to beseech to the Lord.]
36 And if any man guesseth himself to be seen foul on his virgin, that she is full waxen [that she is well old, and so it behooveth to be done, do she that that she will ****; she sinneth not, if she be wedded *****.
37 For he that ordained stably in his heart [For why he that ordained stably, or steadfast, in his heart], not having need, but having power of his will, and hath deemed in his heart this thing, to keep his virgin [for to keep his virginity], doeth well.
38 Therefore he that joineth his virgin in matrimony, doeth well; and he that joineth not, doeth better.
39 The woman is bound to the law, as long time as her husband liveth; and if her husband is dead, she is delivered from the law of the husband [she is delivered from the law], be she wedded to whom she will, only in the Lord.
40 But she shall be more blessed, if she dwelleth thus [if she shall thus dwell], after my counsel; and I ween, that I have the Spirit of God.
Footnotes:
1 Corinthians 7:6 Forsooth I say this thing by indulgence, not after commandment.
1 Corinthians 7:17 No but as the Lord hath parted to each, as God hath called each man, so go he, and as I teach in all churches.
1 Corinthians 7:31 and they that use this world, as not using. Forsooth the figure, or fairness, or prosperity, of this world passeth.
1 Corinthians 7:36 do she what she will/do her keeper what she will/do she that he will
1 Corinthians 7:36 s/he sinneth not, if s/he be wedded
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| Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 11/25/2005 7:47:16 PM | | I think sister_wife profile is a troller.... maybe they/it should move to utah..I'm always suspicious of newly minted profiles posting in the religion forums... Baiting for a debate | |
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| Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 11/25/2005 8:07:45 PM | These are all some interesting postings. It would seem that most seem to know scripture at least NT scripture.
As for the gentleman who posted that we should move to Utah. That's an interesting point although Yahweh called us and led us to Arizona, not Utah. We are not sure what a "troller" is, could you elaborate on this statement?
We commend the person pointing out that these verses seem to be for leadership people in the church. You are right it does not seem to address the common man.
We are curious as to where Yahshua said anything in regards to Polygyny? Anyone have verses that we could research this at.
Thanks,
Steve & Kara | |
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| Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 11/25/2005 8:43:24 PM | Yah shua fooled some of the folks on here.... | |
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funn1
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Joined: 1/8/2005
Msg: 12 | |
| Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 11/25/2005 10:31:09 PM | Titus 1:6
If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
It does not matter if he was talking to the clergy or not, it is saying they would not be blameless so something is wrong with talking more than one wife, no matter who they are.
And if you look at the ppl in the bible who had more than one you will see there lives are full of strife. | |
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| Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 11/26/2005 4:45:41 AM | Are you saying the name confused people, here let me put it in the context that you may recognize Yahshua is the true name for Jesus, and Yahweh is the true name for God.
Does that clear up any misconceptions?
Also, we are still curious what does it mean when you think that we are "trollers" we are still awaiting an answer to this question. I am not sure if you notice that we are completely comfortable with signing our names to all of our posts, I know your probably thinking that we are signing aliases and you have the right to think that but let me assure you they are our first names.
Steve & Kara  | |
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| Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 11/26/2005 4:50:14 AM | You are correct in saying that many peoples lives were full of strife and let's just call it what it is trouble. Now then, was there no problems in say Paul's life who I believe never married. Or say Yahshua's life who most consider to have also never married.
Is it possible that all people have trials and tribulations and possibly these trials have no bearing on your choice of being married, not being married, and having more than one wife?
We considered this scripture that appears to show that all people should have only one wife, although we also read the scriptures that go before this particular verse in Titus and find it rather revealing.
Steve & Kara | |
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| Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 11/26/2005 6:37:15 AM | Steve & Kara,
I'm curious to know what a sister_wife is, and do you know anyone who does this already within your religious group? Wouldn't it be wiser to post such a thing within that group, as you would all be on the same page. How does having a sister_wife add to your union, and have you considered the negatives as well? I wonder what dynamics would make a couple want to have a third party within the fold, imho, its difficult enough to maintain a good relationship with one person, let alone a triangle. | |
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| Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 11/26/2005 7:50:11 AM | | I suppose a third person could act as support and the voice of reason if trouble brews between the other two. | |
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| Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 11/26/2005 8:14:43 AM | Marriage was first instituted by God in the Garden of Eden. It is a monogamous, physical and spiritual union between a man and a woman (Gen. 2:21-24), where adultery was forbidden (Exodus 20:14), and dissolution was not allowed. But it didn't take long for the monogamous arrangement to become corrupted. Polygamy became an accepted social custom (Gen. 16:1-2; Deut. 21:15). In fact, many of the Kings of Israel were polygamists. The norm, however, was, and still is, monogamy.
Simply if it is your mind trying to reason your want then it would be a sin.
Man wants and wills are the way to break ties with God, and His wants.
A real answer will only come from the one who loves you most.
God bless you but let your minds rest, and come to see is it your mind wanting? or?
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| Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 11/26/2005 6:16:42 PM | You had some very insightful questions. we find it interesting that you equate this to a triangle and by a certain amount you are correct in this, here is an excerpt from a web-site which we have studied intensivley and find much truth in.
Translated into polygamy, the pattern is simple enough. There is a three-fold marriage covenant between a husband and his wife/wives, and between the wives. The husband is not only marrying his wives but his wives are also marrying each other. The Echad or Union is three way as illustrated in a simple model of a husband with two wives:
Thus Union involves THREE COVENANTS - (1) Husband-Wife 1, (2) Husband-Wife 2, and (3) Wife 1-Wife 2:
Finally, and critically, these three covenants are a SINGULAR COVENANT IN CHRIST:
This model is, however, slightly defective and must be improved. The covenant between sister-wives is not identical to that between a husband and wife because two women cannot sexually unite. They do have a sexual unity but it is not between each other as between themselves and their husband, but is through their husband. Sister-wives are truly one-flesh with each other but viâ their husband. That which joins them to their husband also joins themselves to each other but in a different way. That is a crucial difference that must be stressed. Without it, we would be advocating a female bisexual relationship which we are absolutely not doing. Therefore we must modify our diagram to take this into account, thus:
What this means is that the covenant between sister-wives is to jointly seek union together with their husband, just as the Church (Messianic Community) covenants to jointly seek mystical union with Christ. Thus in Christian plural marriage - in true Christian polygamy (as opposed to the counterfeits) the object is joint union of wives, or a symbolic simultaneous grafting back in of metaphorical ribs into the rib-cage of Adam, in addition to the individual, one-to-one unions with their husband.
You will find exact and precise parallels between Sanctified Plural Marriage and the Mystical Union of Christ with His Church (Messianic Community) which can be illustrated, using two believers, using exactly the same pattern:
In many respects, therefore, I think the term "sister-wife", which was coined by the Mormons incidentally, is inadequate. It would also be wrong for one wife to speak of a sister-wife as "my wife" as is done in polygamous "marriages" involving bisexual women that I have come across. Finding a term to describe the FICP vision and revelation is probably, therefore, not going to be easy. Possibilities might be "Echad Wife", "Union Wife", or "Covenant Wife" as these most closely reflect the concepts involved. Of the three, I am bound to say that I think Covenant Wife best depicts the heart and spirit of what I have been trying to convey as it is a term that could be used by both husband and wives of one another.
What would be really nice is if we could find a uniplural word for "Wife" as we have in the Hebrew for "God" (which is elohim, "God" or "Gods"). For not only do I consider myself married to several "wives" but also to one "wife" just as Christ is mystically married to us as a singular "Church", "Messianic Bride", or "Messianic Body" (Body of Christ) which contains plural believers as a "Messianic Community". But perhaps that is expecting too much of our language.
We would consider the term covenant wife to be more accurate than sister-wife, but most people are more familiar with the term sister-wife.
We have thought about the possibility of any negative aspects and find that the only negative side is the people who are so easily offended by this, mainly "worldly" people. We have spoken to a number of people whom we know and our closest friends and relatives that we have spoken to about this are in full support of our decision and see this as being something that is right for us. Some of our friends don't consider it right for themselves and that is certainly their right to do so. Certainly throughout all the scriptures there were monagamous marriages and other people who never married. We are certainly not advocating that this is the kind of marriage all must do, nowhere in the scriptures is it commanded that all must have more than one wife. Yahweh gives everyone a choice, and as we are trying to be as much like our creator as possible we also give everyone a choice as well. We feel there would be no negative aspects between the covenant wife and ourselves in the family home as this is what is right for us.
As for our religious group, we actually don't belong to any particular religious group. We have mainly garnered knowledge from the scriptures and from web-sites such as the one that we took the excerpt from.
Steve & Kara | |
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| Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 11/26/2005 7:14:00 PM |
The bible says God winks at our times of ignorance. God says we should have only one wife/husband
1 Timothy 3:2
A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1 Timothy 3:12
Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
Titus 1:6
If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
This should do, there are more scriptures if needed
You are quoting mans opinion not the words of Christ nor the commandments of God. I do not recall where Jesus said it was wrong .(I could be wrong) Nor have I've read where it states "and the Lord spoke and said" in regards to this issue. Personally I think if they want to live this way then who are we to judge. But then again that is just me. | |
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| Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 11/26/2005 7:23:52 PM | What a load of bunk on this thread. If Jesus had'nt been resurrected...He would be spinning in His grave.... | |
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| Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 11/27/2005 5:29:12 AM | Thank you, for not judging, we truly appreciate it.
Steve & Kara | |
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| Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 11/27/2005 5:32:26 AM | Well I guess it's a good thing that your Jesus which doesn't exist in the Hebrew language has been resurrected I surely wouldn't want "Hail Zeus" in the greek text (the greek name for Jesus) to be dizzy.
Steve & Kara | |
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| Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 11/27/2005 8:19:20 AM |
How can something that has been in the bible and practiced by numerous biblical patriarchs such as Moses, Abraham, David, and many countless others be wrong?
Do you own slaves and practice animal sacrifice too? | |
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| Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 11/27/2005 9:23:39 AM | If this family does not have a problem with this why should it effect your family? These people do not feed you and your children they are not responsible for your housing, clothing, lights, water, gas, and or other bills. I also fail to see the immorality of the issue. God chose Jacob to be the father of his bloodline and blessed him tremendously. He had two wife's. I know he was deceived into marrying the first. But he chose to keep her as his wife and did not divorce her. Solomon who was given more wisdom than any other man had 300 wives and 1000 Mistresses. I understand this was a political move to do so but none the less he was never chastised by God for this decision. You can quote as many verses as you may chose to argue your point but no where will you see it as a sin in the scripture. It is a free will
issue. This may not be every ones thing to do. I'm sure not many people are able to deal with this but if they are secure enough in their relationship to deal with this then I say go for it.
Now I know there are some who will call this adultery or fornication but these acts refer to deception or cheating on ones spouse or just out for sex with no love involved. Case in point, Surrogate mothers are permissible under Jewish law as long as the wife cradles the perspective mother in her arms while the husband is impregnating her so he can look in his wife's eyes and express his love for her. IE: Abraham and Sara impregnating her maid servant to have a child this was permissible Now I know this may be a bad example because God promised Sara a child and she became impatient but none the less it was not a sin. No one should judge this couple it is their personal business and apparently they are struggling with this and are seeking our advice. Now is not the time to condemn then but to give loving caring advice either pro or con on the issue. Good luck too you and I hope the best for you. Pray for the peace of Jerusalem | |
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| Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 11/27/2005 9:34:15 AM |
Solomon who was given more wisdom than any other man had 300 wives and 1000 Mistresses.
If Solomon was so wise why did he repeat the same mistake 299 times?  | |
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