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Show ALL Forums  > Religion  > Female Pastors/Preachers: Sinning against God???      Mod Threads Home login  
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 Author Thread: Female Pastors/Preachers: Sinning against God???
 SweetTreat

Joined: 11/15/2005
Msg: 1
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Female Pastors/Preachers: Sinning against God???
Posted: 11/27/2005 6:20:02 PM
Well...I'm curious, considering the Bible states that a woman should not be at the Pulpit and it is in direct violation of the Bible.... does that mean that every female Pastor or Minister is directly sinning against God? And furthermore, what about those that say "God has called me to the ministry", does that mean they are delusional?
 essaress

Joined: 11/17/2005
Msg: 2
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Female Pastors/Preachers: Sinning against God???
Posted: 11/27/2005 6:53:01 PM
Treat, as I understand it there were both in the early church,...women and men as pastors...
It was not until the Pope (julius) I think declared it to be against God's will that things changed...And tho I am not disputing what you are saying. I dont remember seeing in the bible the words about women that you aere refering to...Something in the Epistles???
 j-roc

Joined: 5/24/2005
Msg: 3
Female Pastors/Preachers: Sinning against God???
Posted: 11/27/2005 6:57:25 PM
1 Corinthians 14:34-35 (NRSV)
women should be silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as the law also says. If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.


1 Timothy 2:11-14 (NRSV)
Let the woman learn in silence with full submission. I permit no woman to teach or have authority over a man; she is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.
 Dei Gratia

Joined: 7/28/2005
Msg: 4
Female Pastors/Preachers: Sinning against God???
Posted: 11/27/2005 6:58:37 PM
nope it is scripture my friend and also it is not a sin it is a reasoning suggestion. Up to the questionaire to see the reasoning, on it. I just know I say it written that the women should were a hat or at least long hair, and speak to their husbands for their behalf.

Very nice J I guess I am slipping tonight.:47:

Danke:47:
 The ORACLE

Joined: 10/29/2005
Msg: 5
Female Pastors/Preachers: Sinning against God???
Posted: 11/27/2005 6:59:40 PM
Considering Essares claims to have been a pastor I'm amazed he could not remember what the letters in the NT had to say on this topic..


"God has called me to the ministry", does that mean they are delusional?


well, duh, yes...Don't you know that the most common of psychiatric disorders involves religion in some form or other....
 SweetTreat

Joined: 11/15/2005
Msg: 6
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Female Pastors/Preachers: Sinning against God???
Posted: 11/27/2005 7:03:21 PM
Hey essaress thanks for the responce. Ok..lemme get the scripture verses out lol

1 Timothy 2:11-13 states:

A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve.

So, we are speaking of men as in the literal sense not men as in "people". Therefore, by this assumption women can teach and have authority over women and children, In addition, women can serve in any church activity that does not involve teaching men or “having authority” over them.

I know there are more verses I'd just have to look them up!

Thanks Jroc for the other scriptures....and Dei... again..if it's scripture than by definition would these female preachers/pastors/leaders, etc, be sinning? I am just curious.
 Honorable Genius

Joined: 7/15/2005
Msg: 7
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Female Pastors/Preachers: Sinning against God???
Posted: 11/27/2005 7:04:32 PM
I think J-roc has a computer bible with the "find" command. Hey, let us know what program you are using J!
Peace.
 The ORACLE

Joined: 10/29/2005
Msg: 8
Female Pastors/Preachers: Sinning against God???
Posted: 11/27/2005 7:05:48 PM
Just punch in a search for an on line bible, there are lots out there

http://bibletools.org//index.cfm/fuseaction/Bible.show
 j-roc

Joined: 5/24/2005
Msg: 9
Female Pastors/Preachers: Sinning against God???
Posted: 11/27/2005 7:05:48 PM
I save verses that I disagree with when I come across them; I have them in different folders on my computer for easy access.
 SweetTreat

Joined: 11/15/2005
Msg: 10
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Female Pastors/Preachers: Sinning against God???
Posted: 11/27/2005 7:06:16 PM

well, duh, yes...Don't you know that the most common of psychiatric disorders involves religion in some form or other....


Considering you state you are a christian I'm surprised at that comment to be honest...
 essaress

Joined: 11/17/2005
Msg: 11
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Female Pastors/Preachers: Sinning against God???
Posted: 11/27/2005 7:07:10 PM
Yeah , well it has been over twenty years, and I have not been in a cave all that time , you are gonna slam me for forgetting where a bible qoute comes from??? Nice, nice that you can remember where the quote is but seem to have forgotten "charity"...but tra-la-la.... live in you box , I care not...
 essaress

Joined: 11/17/2005
Msg: 12
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Female Pastors/Preachers: Sinning against God???
Posted: 11/27/2005 7:08:21 PM
and that was not a reponse to you Treat
 The ORACLE

Joined: 10/29/2005
Msg: 13
Female Pastors/Preachers: Sinning against God???
Posted: 11/27/2005 7:10:00 PM
Considering you state you are a christian I'm surprised at that comment to be honest...


Well, I should have said "mistaken" to be more charitable, but definetly there are people with religious delusions..

I don't like to mince words I prefer them whole
 SweetTreat

Joined: 11/15/2005
Msg: 14
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Female Pastors/Preachers: Sinning against God???
Posted: 11/27/2005 7:11:58 PM

and that was not a reponse to you Treat


Understood....
 SweetTreat

Joined: 11/15/2005
Msg: 15
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Female Pastors/Preachers: Sinning against God???
Posted: 11/27/2005 7:17:52 PM
So I assume since you all quoted scripture supporting my argument lol that you all agree with the initial statement than?
 shore66

Joined: 5/23/2004
Msg: 16
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Female Pastors/Preachers: Sinning against God???
Posted: 11/27/2005 7:32:43 PM
I guess it depends on if you think the voice of Paul is the voice of God.
 essaress

Joined: 11/17/2005
Msg: 17
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Female Pastors/Preachers: Sinning against God???
Posted: 11/27/2005 7:35:53 PM
No Treat, I think that you have to take into consideration "who" wrote ,"what", and "when", and "why" and then take time to study the area where the Idea was being put forth...in short I think there is no injunction against a woman being a pastor , I should add that it should not be allowed outside of the umbrella, the shadow, the penumbra of a mans' authority...
And even that seems wrong. But again take what you like frrom books like the bible...use them to cut up the "unbelievers" with your quotations...it all goes to naught if you cant make yourself live a "charitable" life...That is the basis of Christianity..re-read the sermon on the mount...
I am always reluctant to respond to these types of questions becauise I dont like dealing with hateful quote-tossers who are clearly getting some kind of personal kick out of attacking another person...well that is all for me..
 sum1reel

Joined: 6/5/2005
Msg: 18
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Female Pastors/Preachers: Sinning against God???
Posted: 11/27/2005 7:41:15 PM
in Cor 14;34-35 in which Paul states "according to the Law".......the Law was specifically for the Jews........the NT itself frees us from many legalistic dictates!

in Tim 2; 11-14, he 'personalizes' it by saying "I don't permit".......which doesn't necessarily mean it isn't allowed!

interestingly, he goes on to say in verse 15........he says that: {she shall be 'saved' by child bearing, provided that she continue in faith and love...}

does he mean that women can remain in a state of ignorance and be saved provided that they have some form of faith and love???........if so then this goes against the very example that JC himself gave with regards to women issues (ie. the woman at the well, and even Mary Mag!!!)

the authorship of Tim is in question....perhaps it is Pauline.......but i doubt that this is enuff to ban women from the pulpit.......besides, wasn't there a woman by the name of Esther in the OT who spoke as a 'prophetess'?
 SweetTreat

Joined: 11/15/2005
Msg: 19
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Female Pastors/Preachers: Sinning against God???
Posted: 11/27/2005 7:42:24 PM
Grrrrr again..is this an "open to interpretation by whoever reads it" kinda verse? I know some say we should disregard the OT entirely (which if you are a christian I think you should be following the entire Bible...but hey what do I know!)
 SweetTreat

Joined: 11/15/2005
Msg: 20
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Female Pastors/Preachers: Sinning against God???
Posted: 11/27/2005 7:44:53 PM
Don't listen to this character sweettreat on here. She is a very bitter poster who is taking out her hate on everybody on this site, and thinks she is taking it out on God. God is not mocked, however, whatever a women sows, that also she shall reap. (the Bible) Anything you do to demean God, will come back to haunt you. You will be a very bitter old woman still cursing God, until you die without Christ.


I'm not bitter...and I'm not "hating on anyone"....thanks for coming out though.

Btw motif, you totally just reaffirmed everyones suspicions that there are several posters who just tend to create new identities over and over again and post as someone else. Because your joined date says you joined today...which is hardly enough time for you to read through my posts and get an idea of what I'm about and actually be able to pass such a judgement on me...so who of the 4 "radicals" are you?
 Dei Gratia

Joined: 7/28/2005
Msg: 21
Female Pastors/Preachers: Sinning against God???
Posted: 11/27/2005 7:45:02 PM
Luke wasa prophet woman who was eighty something and her husband had passed away and she had never maried again. She saw Jesus as he was being taken to the church to abide with the laws of Moses.

But did she talk in church? Do not think so it was a mere mention that she was there.

Sumone I stand corrected I see this stated as such in the other book...

Tyndales...

Let your wives keep silence in the congregations. For it is not permitted unto them to speak: but let them be under obedience, as saith the law: if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is a shame for women to speak in the congregation. Spronge the word of God from you? other came it unto you only? If any man think himself a prophet either spiritual: let him understand, what things I write unto you. For they are the commandments of the Lord. But and if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant. Wherefore brethren covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. Let all things be done honestly and in order.

William Tyndale 1526
 j-roc

Joined: 5/24/2005
Msg: 22
Female Pastors/Preachers: Sinning against God???
Posted: 11/27/2005 7:46:48 PM
Why is it always the posters without pictures pick on Sweet Treat ?
 SweetTreat

Joined: 11/15/2005
Msg: 23
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Female Pastors/Preachers: Sinning against God???
Posted: 11/27/2005 7:47:57 PM
^^ I guess I'm special jroc...LOL
 Dei Gratia

Joined: 7/28/2005
Msg: 24
Female Pastors/Preachers: Sinning against God???
Posted: 11/27/2005 7:56:41 PM
1Tim 2 perhaps Sum1?


I woll therefore that the men pray every where, lifting up pure hands without wrath, or arguing. Likewise also the women that they array themselves in mannerly apparel with shamefastness, and honest behavior, not with broided hair, other gold, or pearls, or costly array: but with such as becometh women that profess the worshipping of God thorow good works. Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. I suffer not a woman to teach, neither to have authority over the man: but for to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, and then Eve. Also Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived, and was in transgression. Notwithstanding they shall be saved thorow bearing of children, if they continue in the faith and in love, and in sanctifying.

© Faith of God
William Tyndale 1526


This in regards to them loving monies over or before God. Done.
Now going back to 1Cor 14.34 is Paul was not talking aboout a specific Law of Moses but a tradition See 11.5 the women do not seem to speak in the church period.
cross 11.6,10
 Honorable Genius

Joined: 7/15/2005
Msg: 25
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Female Pastors/Preachers: Sinning against God???
Posted: 11/27/2005 8:05:44 PM
Fear. They pick on Sweet, but know that since she is a godless heathen, she might hunt them down and have her way with them. So no picture to identify themselves by, lest she should find them. (250 million people is a lot, but you never know. She might have powers.)

tee hee

peace
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