| THE DEBATE ABOUT IRAQ -- READ THIS AND THINK
Posted: 12/29/2004 12:22:17 AM | Yes
I am just getting sick of the idealistic b*tches in the world
that sit in there chairs and spew "wisdom"
I can say it cause I was one of them once..........
I think a shot of reality is good for them
it may save a life
or it may make someone actually take stock of how they are spending their time.....
you see
for all of us on this forum intellectualizing the war ...............
all of our time debating will mean nothing in 2 weeks......nothing
If you are truly passionate about it do anything that will actually matter
Send a STARVING Iraqi child A $1
will make more difference than all of you arguing like a bunch of B*tches
ya go ahead call me names ................
but,at the end of the day ...............
you know I am right
so use your energy wisely friends
AND ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING......THAT FORWARDS THE CAUSE OF GOOD
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| THE DEBATE ABOUT IRAQ -- READ THIS AND THINK
Posted: 12/29/2004 12:31:38 AM | truely, i care about issues in healthcare, environment and leadership more than the topic of war in iraq.
I care about Osama more than iraq
and i care about sudan more than iraq.
I care about disease and disparity more. I think its a bigger, more important issue.
I suppose you expect thing in the world to become better without debate or education, but i think that is wrong.
You obviously just jumped in here, saw one thing that caught your eye and captivated your itty bitty intelect and then started raving and havent stopped.
I am totally not impressed with such performance. Did you take your meds today? | |
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| THE DEBATE ABOUT IRAQ -- READ THIS AND THINK
Posted: 12/29/2004 12:41:26 AM | @itsugoogoo
your tone is very disrespectful
I am not trying to attack you
so do not try to provoke a response by calling me names
cause I do not play that game thanks
I am speaking truth and it is a permanent record on here for all to read
I am not calling anyone names
there are far more effective ways of making a point
truth and respect for others is my path my friend | |
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| THE DEBATE ABOUT IRAQ -- READ THIS AND THINK
Posted: 12/29/2004 12:44:43 AM | hey mr respect and truth. @itsugoogoo <---::: is that my name?
? Can't you say "I go to osu" ?
what was it, my use of the word "idealistic"? is that your trigger, something in your past?
i'm not talking to you nemore | |
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| THE DEBATE ABOUT IRAQ -- READ THIS AND THINK
Posted: 12/29/2004 12:49:21 AM | no I have been watching how you treat others on the forums with little respect
by calling people names
and I want you to think about it a bit
I am not the enemy
I am trying to help you igotoosu
ps
I am sorry about spelling your name wrong it is a hard one to remember I will try harder
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ousu
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Joined: 8/28/2004
Msg: 6 | |
| THE DEBATE ABOUT IRAQ -- READ THIS AND THINK
Posted: 12/29/2004 12:53:45 AM | Guitarman, I agree that one could now think more how one can help now when the damage has already been done. I prefer it via such organisations like Red Cross.
On the other hand I see it important people react somehow also on the level of speech. If people remain silent they get just more frustrated, and silence for me is also like accepting the happenings. I am aware it does not change things when we are debating on forums, at least not directly. | |
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| THE DEBATE ABOUT IRAQ -- READ THIS AND THINK
Posted: 12/29/2004 1:06:56 AM | @ousu
my hot fin girl
If you or any one spent 10 mins actually doing something
it would mean more than 10 hrs of debate
10 mins
I say this as not an arguement ..............but, as an absolute truth
I want all of us articulate hotheads on these forums to just think about that..........
just think about it...........then do anything that is at all measurable for the cause of good
anything
cause these forums are actually negative
cause, they cause bad feelings that did not exist before you came on here..................think
all of my statements are not theory ............
they could actually be proven with a calculator right here in front of all of us.........
I speak the truth | |
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ousu
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Joined: 8/28/2004
Msg: 8 | |
| THE DEBATE ABOUT IRAQ -- READ THIS AND THINK
Posted: 12/29/2004 1:21:04 AM | @Guitarman:
Heh, actually I am not very "hot" :p
I understand what you mean. And what becomes to your statement "cause these forums are actually negative / cause, they cause bad feelings that did not exist before you came on here." - I have been thinking about this. It has been before easy here where I stand... everybody around me agreeded "against Iraq war"... Now I have been forced to listen also those who have different point of view. I am not sure if it is that bad... at least I need to clarify my thoughts, and see those people from different perspective. When before they were just "uh, those!!!", now I have to admit that even though they think differently, they can still be nice people generally. - I believe debating could increase tolerance, and make us less black and white -thinking. (???)
The negative feelings coming from seeing different happenings you cannot really - as individual - stop happening... It would be easier to close one's eyes. But without the knowledge what is going on, how we can in future decide what to decide? For example, I know better now who to vote next time in my own country (heh, our pasifist president :p).
Hmmmm, I think we might try to find more creative way to debate? - To cool down and remember we are pointing our words to an human being who might feel bad when called "idiot", "hatemonger",... whatever.
(Nice new pictures you have) | |
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| THE DEBATE ABOUT IRAQ -- READ THIS AND THINK
Posted: 12/29/2004 1:29:28 AM | thanks babe
I have learnt tons on these forums so that is good
and yes calling people names is just bad
and these people should think about it this way
you are putting a permanent record out on the net of how articulate you are
and how you chose to debate
when you press .....post
I know that the kid who collected a $1 for unicef at halloween has done more for the good
of our world.........then all of us debaters put together
and I would like all of you to think about that for a second
cause most of us our sooooooooo passionate but at the end of the day it means nothing
we as a people should change that | |
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ousu
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Joined: 8/28/2004
Msg: 11 | |
| THE DEBATE ABOUT IRAQ -- READ THIS AND THINK
Posted: 12/29/2004 1:57:11 AM | Ok, now I might make a big mistake admitting this :p but I will run the risk ;)
Before these forums I had pretty uniform image about Americans... I even once refused to accept one "gig" just because the clients were from the US (shame on me, I know!). I was thinking that they would anyway making my work difficult due to cultural differences, and I did not want to bother myself too much at time just because of work. Nowadays I would not be that much racist :D but face the same situation with more open mind, as I have learnt to do with other nationalities.
I would order as a medicine more communication between different groups. And this is just one way to do it on personal level.
I am not sure whether in the end of the day there is nothing... There are some cases I have started to consider my strong opinions from a new point of view. It is in micro level and will not change the world but at least it is a start. | |
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| THE DEBATE ABOUT IRAQ -- READ THIS AND THINK
Posted: 12/29/2004 2:13:44 AM | i agree, it is the passion inside of us that gets things done. really, it is one of the most human of charachteristics and without it we would be nothing.
As far as arguing and heated debate, it is fundamental to change. without questioning what ourselves and others take as "fact", we would still be hunter-gatherers without even the most rudimentary of stone tools. it is imparative that we continually reasses the constituents of our views of the truth.
as far as the comments i have made, i stand by them.
anyone who doesn't like that can reread all the threads i have participated them until they can understand the context in which they were made. that or venture to ask me why i might choose to say something the way i do. | |
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| THE DEBATE ABOUT IRAQ -- READ THIS AND THINK
Posted: 12/29/2004 2:36:34 AM | @igotoosu
thank you for not calling me a name in this post
It shows respect for a fellow human
cause If we were in the same room we would not be calling each other names
we would be drinking a beer
you see when on person SEES the hurt and distress
that is caused by calling people names they quit doing it..........
It is a basic instinict .......
it is the piece of good in all of us
To everyone justifing your posts...........don't there is no point
just do something good in the world
with the time you spend on here......................
-say nice things
-give the kid the $4 for the chocolate bar for his school
-let someone in in traffic
-don't always have to be right
-help an old lady with her groceries to the car
-collect $10 for the red cross
--anyone of these things will mean more than the useless debate on here
cause you know in two weeks everyone forgets about who won what night of debate
do stuff that matters folks..............measurable things
do good things
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| THE DEBATE ABOUT IRAQ -- READ THIS AND THINK
Posted: 12/29/2004 2:53:41 AM | thanks dude
I try to think of it as wisdom instead of spew.....thanks though
I did not make it up it is the truth in all of us ............
no one else was bringing it up though
so I did............
hoping people would think about it a bit with their heart and their minds | |
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| THE DEBATE ABOUT IRAQ -- READ THIS AND THINK
Posted: 12/29/2004 3:12:43 AM | "If you or any one spent 10 mins actually doing something
it would mean more than 10 hrs of debate"
Guitarman, how long have you been debating this thread? | |
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| THE DEBATE ABOUT IRAQ -- READ THIS AND THINK
Posted: 12/29/2004 3:24:13 AM | pretty gutsy and good move guitarman.
The only thing i am bent about is you discredited alot of good things that i have done in here by acting like my only tone is disrespect.
I will never feel differently about w and i will still call him names. He is a bad man.
I have long known that i was short on emotional intelligence and something of a hothead.
Emotional intelligence is what i respect about Watchman. That dude is a complete gentleman.
props to him for all he endured over the last month defending his president. the watchman is already aware that i feel this way, something i think the guitarman missed. Me calling the watchman a dumbass is the same (to me) as me calling my brother a dumbass.
Bowvalleymike is in a similar class as far as i am concerned. Though we disagree about what priorities should be, he is more like myself, and prone to call a name when he is frustrated. For one thing, if you read his posts, he doesn't trip when u call him a name.
I dislike his political views even more than the watchman, but i respect him for saying what he thinks. He really just needs to get laid. A good woman will fix his views on sexual equality.
Gcblues will never have my respect, he is just a lost cause when it comes to issues of humanity. absolutely unreasonable, racist, sexist !@# (that was a name, but it wasn't Ass)
My oppinion is the only way to create change in this country right now is through politics, and i know the arguments sink in over time with the vast majority of people. My view is that these types of forums make a huge difference on the micro scale. one person at a time. that effect, when added up over all the forums like this in the world affects change on a macro level. there are so many issues people fail to consider when they list things that they think are important and the only way to make them aware of those other issues is education, in one form or another.
Honestly, how many people even know that one third of the world is infected with tuberculosis and that it is developing multi drug resistance faster than any bacteria out there?
How about aids in russia?
Do people know what hapens when a person has HIV and gets tuberculosis?
You want to talk about clear and present danger. No problem, it has a name.
the name is Silence | |
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| THE DEBATE ABOUT IRAQ -- READ THIS AND THINK
Posted: 12/29/2004 3:36:58 AM | @poetprince47
I am not here to debate
I have not debated anything
I have spread a message...........you may call it what you will
we all spend a great deal of time debating..........
moments of life you will never get back ................ever
just think about it ..............
if we are really for good in the world ............
is this the best way for us to spend our time on earth?
No..........
the time I spend spreading this message is not a waste it goes all over the world my friends
do good things
try to see the good in people not the bad
do not make fun of someone's vulnerbility.............what is this saying about the person that is poking fun............that message too
goes all over the world.....understand
there is no debate for good and truth
and prefer to spread that ............
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| THE DEBATE ABOUT IRAQ -- READ THIS AND THINK
Posted: 12/29/2004 3:54:49 AM | "the time I spend spreading this message is not a waste it goes all over the world my friends"
Your message is not a bad one, but your posts seem to imply that the messages of others are of less significance. I just wonder at that: why might your messages on here be more valid than anyone else's? | |
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| THE DEBATE ABOUT IRAQ -- READ THIS AND THINK
Posted: 12/29/2004 7:57:36 AM | [One thing I've noticed is how a lot of our debates, arguments, or whatever they become go around in circles, then end up as they started off with all the participants in the same places. It's starting to seem pretty predictable, isn't it? Everyone who participates seems to have a pretty strong and pretty unshakable set of core beliefs. Rarely do I see any deviation by the time we reach the end of the thread- IF we reach it. Right or wrong really doesn't matter- it's about how you see things. Facts about many things are constantly in dispute, which again seems to come back to individual perception based on education and experience. The more of both you have, the broader your perception.
Through argument and logic you can make things as you want them, which may or may not be how things are. Sometimes the arguments turn into shouting matches. I myself am guilty there, just like most everyone at some point. Some arguments cannot be won, no matter if you're right or wrong, depending upon each person. In such cases it doesn't seem to be about who's right, anyway. It's about how far you're willing to go in order to defend your position, which many times is an important part of who you are. Sometimes you have a lot of evidence to back it up, sometimes you have little more than gut instinct- what feels right to you. There are some crimes that I'd say any and every rational person would agree are condemnable and never justifiable. With most others, there are some who see it in gray, others who see it in black and white. That's how it is.
That said, I'll do my best from here on out to remain rational and not resort to name-calling, which accomplishes nothing.]
I posted this in another forum, and it seems to me it applies here. Guitarman, if one thing you're getting at is how the argumentative tones and name-calling that some of our debates devolve into is a waste of time and energy, I'd agree with you in one way, if the name-calling is all that comes from it. If that's the case, they aren't productive and accomplish nothing other than ticking people off. Sometimes, though, that conflict and how you resolve it also can be part of the learning process, as it has been for me.
However, if you're saying or even implying that debate itself about the multitude of issues and problems we face today is non-productive, I would totally disagree. Getting such matters of significance out into the open and discussing them, pro or con, is not only important- it's vital. Debate is educational; it can lead to broadening of one's horizons and understanding that simply reading news accounts or textbooks only goes so far. It's sort of like receiving a lecture and having no input as opposed to getting other viewpoints in addition to what you see and what you read. Whether or not you agree with the opinons/observations of those you talk with is irrelevant. Just by listening to someone else and considering his/her viewpoints, you've helped educate yourself further and who knows- perhaps you've even made yourself a bit more tolerant of others in the process. You've taken a step toward becoming objective, whether you realize it or not. Book knowledge is fine, but it only gets you so far. Couple that with knowledge you get through interaction with others, and you have something to work with.
Igotoo said this previously, and he's right. Watchman, Bowvalleymike and I may never agree on some things, but I respect them and their views- their right to have them and their right to express them. I'll say it again: that's one reason why I'm proud of my country- because every one of us has those rights. I went over the top a couple times with Watchman, and for that I apologize. I've only been on this site for a week or so and already I've learned something from it. I have no right to judge him on things I may differ with him on, and from here on out I won't. That's proof to me that my experience on here thus far has been very productive.
In every aspect of life the participants always will cultivate the most from it, as they're the ones who are willing to get their hands dirty. The more people who are involved in the process, the more we all will grow. That's how I see it. | |
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| THE DEBATE ABOUT IRAQ -- READ THIS AND THINK
Posted: 12/29/2004 8:11:40 AM | | Send food instead of bullets ? Thats not the American way. If a country isn't positioned on a strategic spot on the globe and if there are no reasources in the soil then the US isn't interested. Just take a look at the entire middle east. Do you honestly believe that the US would be in the region if they didn't need the oil? | |
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| THE DEBATE ABOUT IRAQ -- READ THIS AND THINK
Posted: 12/29/2004 8:16:56 AM | guitarman: we're excercising our right to freedom of speech. I'm all for sending a buck to refugees in Iraq. In fact, we're all doing that... through taxes, whether we want to or not... BUT, in a democracy we have a responsibility to excercise our free speech in public places (which this is).
Regardless of your disdain for hot air, the things that make this world go round are ideas... That's right!
Words are the tools we have to spread ideas; not just guitars...
Public opinion was able to organize resistance to the Viet Nam war and finally bring an end to it.(When people refused to sign up for the draft)
We have the right to try to do that again... or NOT as dictated by our conscience.
Let the words fly. | |
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| THE DEBATE ABOUT IRAQ -- READ THIS AND THINK
Posted: 12/29/2004 1:20:28 PM | -say nice things (most of the time)
-give the kid $4 for the chocolate bar for his school
-let someone in in traffic
-help an old lady w/ her groceries to the car
-donate money (when I can afford it-every chance I get)
Guitarman~I don't understand.Do you think that just because I, or anyone else post viewpoints on a forum board that we don't do these things ^^ in our everyday lives, outside of the house? I know that I sure do, and I'm sure most others do, as well. Debate may seem useless to you, but for many others it's educational,e.t.c. Ouso's msg #8 (and #11) demonstrate this perfectly. Also, what FictionWriter said, "...listening to someone else and considering his/her viewpoints may help you educate yourself further-or even become a bit more tolerant of others." And, as Elwood said, words/public opinion can be powerful in many ways. In either case, coming onto a forum board and sharing/debating important issues and viewpoints may not be as good a use of time as working in the soup kitchen, or donating blood...but it's (imo) a better use of my "down time" then watching some mindless sit-com drivel on T.V. for an hour. Then, in my regular, everday life, I do as much good as possible. Unfortunately, I need a break every so often during the day/night..and this forum, for now, is a small,educational & interesting past-time. It doesn't consume my life, and only a very small part of my time, for cryin out loud-as I'm sure is true for most others. I do agree on the name-calling, though...I must work on that ,myself... lol Peace~ | |
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| THE DEBATE ABOUT IRAQ -- READ THIS AND THINK
Posted: 12/29/2004 3:05:19 PM | wow.
misquoted, ignored. What a bunch of hitting below the belt. I'm a little surprised (or not i guess) that nobody with a problem is responding to the actual things i have said.
Is there an imposter around here pretending to be me? | |
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