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| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/16/2005 3:36:00 AM | Evangelical Christians do a lot of good in the world. Many of them are very fine, very spiritual people with many admirable qualities and I respect them for that. There's one thing that drives me crazy about them though -- their insistence that "correct doctrine" is so all important and that only they know what "correct doctrine" is. Anyone who deviates from this is considered to be part of a "cult", "deceived by demons" or worse.
Jesus never gave a doctrinal exam to any of His followers nor did he ever make an issue about whether they believed in the "Trinity", "justification by faith alone" or any number of the often complex doctrines that arose after His death and have been hotly debated ever since. But if He came back today, I'll bet even He would have a lot to say about one doctrine that is preached by the preeminent "heresy hunters", the Evangelicals themselves: the belief that all you have to do to be "saved" is to accept Him into your heart once and it's a done deal. Sin away all your life --- before or after your "salvation" --- and the pearly gates will still swing open wide for you if you've taken that step once.
In my opinion, not only does this belief make no logical sense at all but it truly is the worst Christian heresy of all. Why bother to live a good life and actually conduct yourself in a Christian manner if the work's already been done for you and requires no further effort on your part?
Your thoughts? | |
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| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/16/2005 8:54:21 AM | If, in fact, there is NO
condemnation for those in Christ Jesus -- even when we sin -- then
why not sin, that grace might abound? Well, this exact question,
is asked in the Bible. And it is likewise answered:
As sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through
righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. What shall
we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer
therein? (Rom. 5:29-6:1)
The reason we don't "sin that grace might abound" is NOT that
we will be condemned for it. Paul goes out of his way to make sure
that we understand this, climaxing in the statement that there is NO
condemnation for those in Christ, only two chapters after the above
verse. But note what Paul does give as the reason we do not "sin
that grace might abound:" We are dead to sin. We have been
baptized into the death of Christ, and raised to newness of life.
The reason Christians do not use the grace of God as a license
to sin is that we are "dead to sin" and "alive to God." But this is not
merely a "positional" status we have, or merely a "doctrinal" Truth.
These verses are talking about our spiritual condition through the
new birth. Someone born of God WILL NOT "sin that grace might
abound." The new nature within them won't allow for that.
This Truth is found in I John. There we find what might, on the
surface, appear to be verses that contradict each other, but which,
upon closer examination, are really an explanation of how a
Christian will still sin, but will never WANT to sin -- using the grace
of God as a license.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the
truth is not in us. (I Jn. 1:8)
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not. Whosoever sinneth has not
seen Him, neither knows Him. (I Jn. 3:6)
Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed
remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
(I Jn. 3:9)
A Christian cannot say, "I have no sin." That, as John puts it, is
self-deception. In fact, if we actually say that, it is evidence that the
Truth is not in us. Why? Because the Truth in us will make it
painfully obviously to us that we DO sin. And it will also provide
the redemptive solution in Christ.
Yet despite fully confessing that we do sin, John says that if we
abide in Him we "sinneth not." He adds that if we are born of God
we do not commit sin. How can both be true?
Well, the Greek words behind "sinneth not," and "does not
commit sin" are words which carry the meaning of habitual, willful
sin. This is sin which is embraced by the one sinning, and sin with
which the sinner is at ease. It is sin which meets with no resistance
in the will of the person sinning. This is an attitude towards sin
which a born again believer will never have.
If you look around you, you might see people who claim to be
born again, but who continue to act as if they are not. It might seem
as if they are "sinning that grace might abound." Well, we cannot
know what is in their heart -- although we can certainly call any acts
of sin what they are. That kind of person could actually hate the
fact they are sinning, and be in the process of crying out to God for
help. Or they may not really be born again. It is up to God to judge.
A real Christian doesn't WANT to sin. There is a reason for this.
It's because you cannot become a genuine Christian unless you
have first repented of wanting to sin. To become a Christian, you
must repent, embrace forgiveness, and in an attitude of need,
receive the grace of God. If you still want to sin, you aren't going
to do any of that.
You see, Christianity is not a religion to adopt, or a list of
teachings to start obeying. It is a new birth. If I am a Christian, I
won't want to sin because I have entered into Christ forsaking sin.
I have repented of "wanting to sin."
Now, don't get this mixed up with the flesh "wanting to sin." The
flesh often likes to sin. There are still pulls of the flesh to overcome
once we are Christians. That is why the Bible says that the flesh
and the Spirit are contrary to one another and constantly at war.
We have our flesh, which tends towards sin. But we have our
inner man, who does not want to sin. We must yield our members
to the Holy Spirit, and not to the flesh.
Some Christians have trouble with this distinction between the
flesh wanting to sin, and THEM wanting to sin. They see that their
flesh has certain pulls and it convinces them that they want to sin.
But the fact is, if I am worried about it at all, then I probably don't
want to sin. I probably hate the fact that my flesh likes certain sins.
This resistance to sin in me is from the new life God birthed in me.
Read Romans 7. There we find Paul telling us that that he does
not want to sin, but does sin. It is almost like he is describing two
people. But we are no different. A real Christian does not want to
sin. But his flesh, the law of sin within, does tend towards sin. His
life is spent learning how to yield to God and overcome the flesh
through the victory of Christ.
So what is the relationship a truly converted Christian has to
sin? He doesn't want to sin, but often does sin. He desires to
obey God, but often fails. He makes lots of mistakes. But always,
before, during, and after he sins, he is in Christ. And Christ took
away all sin.
We also see this in I John:
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And
any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ
the righteous. (I Jn. 2:1) | |
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| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/16/2005 9:20:51 AM | OP, I disagree with you entirely or for the most part. Salvation is by faith alone, it doesn't matter what sins you have committed, they can be forgiven.
Correct doctrine is utmost. Heresies and cults such as David Koresh or the Way Ministry must be revealed as heresies and revealed as cults, otherwise people would get even more sucked into them. This is a big problem in the end times with people being deceived. The Bible itself addresses a lot of heresies and cults in the writings of Paul, as well as the Prophets.
If you are speaking as a person who is not a Christian, I would not expect you to understand.
You have to be a reborn Christian to understand these matters. So much on these threads is erroneous because it is being proposed by the nonbeliever. | |
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| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/16/2005 9:26:18 AM | Davie  Well said! A truly saved person will grow and bear spiritual fruit, with genuine desire to serve God, turning from their old sinful ways. The fruit is not what saves them, it is evidence of a true change.
There's one thing that drives me crazy about them though -- their insistence that "correct doctrine" is so all important and that only they know what "correct doctrine" is. Anyone who deviates from this is considered to be part of a "cult", "deceived by demons" or worse.
When people deviate from Scripture I don't call them a cult. But I will say that they have deviated from the truth. Following correct doctrine is important. Otherwise you can pretty much twist pieces of it to mean whatever you want, and it is no longer God's words. It's human words designed to please ourselves. Correct doctrine is simple: it's the Scriptures as a whole as written in the original Greek and Hebrew. God's word does not change, no matter how much culture or society does.
I will say that there are people who love to battle silly semantics, and that really bothers me too (like denominational differences, etc). But doctrine is hardly semantics. If you're going to commit to a faith that you may have to die for one day, you better know what it is you believe! | |
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| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/16/2005 12:43:13 PM |
Why bother to live a good life and actually conduct yourself in a Christian manner if the work's already been done for you and requires no further effort on your part?
Correct doctrine is needed..But it does not have to be complicated...Accepting Jesus for what he claimed to be is the main doctrine. Others are attempts at explaining the whys and wherefores, which can just come down to haggling over words..take the Sabbath thread for instance..It is a Christian duty to walk in faith that produces good fruit or works out of love and concern for all our fellow persons..
(Titus 3:8 KJV) This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
Of course we are in no way perfect and do offend at times, and fall short of Jesus' message but we as Christians are held to high accountabilty by those that are not of the faith. And use that as a justification for putting it down...
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| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/16/2005 2:07:53 PM | "Good explanation Davie"
I whole-heartedly agree .... sigh .... I'm experiencing the "sin" of envy .... I wish I could write as eloquently. | |
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| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/16/2005 3:12:12 PM | If you are speaking as a person who is not a Christian, I would not expect you to understand.
You have to be a reborn Christian to understand these matters. So much on these threads is erroneous because it is being proposed by the nonbeliever.
Actually, I have walked down the aisle at a Billy Graham rally and accepted Jesus. I have been baptized -- not as a child but as an adult, fully aware of what I was doing. At one time, I very seriously considered entering the Christian ministry. There is absolutely no question about the sincerity of my "conversion". For a time in my life, I probably thought in most theological matters exactly as you do.
After passing through periods of agnosticism and atheism, I had come to believe in the validity of the Christian message primarily through extensive reading of the writings of the late great American psychic Edgar Cayce. His vision of the afterlife -- which is thoroughly Christian with explicit recognition of Jesus as the Saviour, "the way, the truth and the life"
-- includes the concept of reincarnation and also acknowledges that there is a great deal of truth in other religious traditions such as Hinduism and Buddhism. When I became involved with an Evangelical Christian group, I was informed that such beliefs were "doctrines of demons" and incompatible with Christianity. For a time I accepted this -- even though, without those beliefs, I would never have come to a place in my thinking where I could accept the Christian message or even Jesus himself as anything other than a good man. If indeed the concepts put forward by Cayce are "doctrines of demons", it seems that the demons were shooting themselves in the feet -- in my case at least. Please don't bombard me with Biblical verses proving that Cayce was a messenger of the devil. Believe me, I have heard them all and considered them in great depth.
After much soul searching, thought and prayer and a considerable amount of mental anguish, in the end I found myself unable to accept the traditional Christian concepts of the afterlife and also the insistence that only "Christians" can be "saved" and that no matter what kind of life they live, how they treat their fellow man, etc, all others are doomed to roast in the pits of Hell for all eternity.
I appreciate the thoughtful explanations offered on this subject by Davey on this subject.
I have come to believe that salvation is not an instantaneous event but rather a process that involves considerable efforts on our part to allow the grace of God to work through us and transform us. This accords very well with St. Paul's instruction to "work out your salvation with fear and trembling". I believe that true salvation is indeed being saved from not only the consequences of our sins but from sin itself, ie, even the desire to sin.
If and when I ever get to Heaven or some celestial realm that fits the definition thereof, I expect to meet there many people such as Gandhi who also believed in reincarnation and other so called "doctrines of demons" and who was yet called by a noted Christian missionary, E. Stanley Jones, "the most Christlike man in India."
A college professor of mine proposed the idea that Christians should accept a sort of "doctrinal poverty" -- affirming the ethical and spiritual imperatives taught by Jesus, eg, "love God with all your heart and your neighbour as yourself" while refusing to be divided by doctrinal differences over matters that are not really relevant to the way we live our lives.
When we do meet Him, Jesus is not going to ask whether we believed in the Trinity or any number of other doctrines deemed so important by so many. He will be concerned only with how we treated our fellow beings and whether or not we loved God and His creatures. If we have failed in that respect, "not wishing that any soul should perish", I fully expect that He will send us back to try again, reaping what we have sown until, aided by His grace, we finally get it right. I have grave doubts that a one time acceptance of His message will be enough to get us into Paradise if we have been among those who said "Lord, Lord..." but failed to put His teachings into practice, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked and "taking up our crosses" to truly follow Him. | |
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| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/16/2005 5:02:19 PM | ... still sighing ... another eloquent writer ..
I was going to try and contribute further but I can't write worth beans so I will just note that I agree that "exclusion" is a huge problem with those who believe that they have discovered the "truth". Some Christians quote I Tim 4:1
Now the Spirit speaks expressly that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils; speaking lies in hypocrisy; and having their conscience seared with a hot iron.
and II Tim 3: 1-7
This I know also that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, boasters, proud, blasphemers, ...unthankful, unholy, without natural affection ...having a form of godliness but denying the power thereof ...etc
Quoted to unbelievers indicating that if they don't believe in the subscribed way that they are judged to be doomed forever. However, these quoters, preaching exclusion should be made aware that these prophecies are not directed at the non-believing world, atheists, pagans, as they believe but are prophecies concerning judgement of themselves, the 'church'. | |
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j-roc
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Joined: 5/24/2005
Msg: 10 | |
| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/16/2005 5:16:21 PM |
Why bother to live a good life and actually conduct yourself in a Christian manner if the work's already been done for you and requires no further effort on your part? Good question....the book of life is already written, we are either in it or we are not....what's the point of following any doctrine ? | |
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| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/16/2005 5:28:34 PM |
... still sighing ... another eloquent writer ..
I was going to try and contribute further but I can't write worth beans so I will just note that I agree that "exclusion" is a huge problem with those who believe that they have discovered the "truth".
LOL River Loon, thanks for the compliment. You write more eloquently than you give yourself credit for and always have something intelligent to say.
I love the "last days" quote. Personally, I think that we are in those "last days" and "perilous times". Whether it will be two years or two hundred before the fulfillment of the direst prophecies made in the Bible and through other sources such as Edgar Cayce is seen, I can't say. Still, believing that, I think it's more important than ever that people of good will who believe in spiritual principles should no longer be divided over "side issues" and concentrate on the truly essential parts of the Christian message. | |
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| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/16/2005 5:28:42 PM | I can appreciate that Art and Soul believes in practicing one's religion, I can heartily agree that we should put faith into action, not just in words.
However, I disagree on Edgar Cayce. I have been to his center which is pretty close to where I live. I don't think he is of God, and while in the center I definitely felt the presence of the demonic spirits. I wanted out of there some kinda awful. I believe that any belief in him, even if sincere, or else belief in reincarnation, however sincere, is a doctrine of devils.
I will not give you a laundry list of scriptures, but I feel very firm in my beliefs and they are unshakeable as long as I have pondered them. I did go to a liberal college where professors put forth many liberal theories which I consider to be straight from the pit of hell. No offense, because I think you are a poster who tries not to flame or degrade other posters. I in turn respect you and do not wish to make any personal attack. I just am not able to back down on my conviction. | |
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| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/16/2005 5:30:28 PM | Good points raised by his eloquance...however Christians should also be aware the following...
(Phil 2:12 KJV) Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
We do not have a licence to treat people like crap and expect to get away with it..We can point out what we believe is error, but it must be done with a loving spirit...
We are to judge those in the church not those who are not in it...
(1 Cor 5:12 KJV) For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? | |
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| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/17/2005 2:11:05 AM |
However, I disagree on Edgar Cayce. I have been to his center which is pretty close to where I live. I don't think he is of God, and while in the center I definitely felt the presence of the demonic spirits.
Methinks, I suspect you are very sincere in your beliefs and respect your right to hold them. Believing as you do though, it is not surprising that you felt something "demonic" in the air at the headquarters of the A.R.E. (Association for Research and Enlightenment) which was founded by Edgar Cayce. I have been to a weekend retreat/conference held by the same group in my neck of the woods and had completely the opposite vibe. There was a feeling of peace and brotherhood that was so palpable that it was a bit of a shock to return to the "real" workaday world after that weekend. I suppose it depends, at least in part, on what beliefs one carries into the experience. Often we see exactly what we expect to see.
Still, it is possible that there were in fact some "demonic spirits" hanging about. However, I have also been in a lot of churches where, under the veneer of civility and Christian charity, there were persons who embodied anything but the spirit of God. It would be unfair to judge Christianity by those persons who parody it. Similarly, one cannot judge the teachings of a person such as Cayce by the people who visit a center where those teachings are studied. Just as not every person who goes to a Christian church is necessarily a Christian, neither can one expect all visitors to the Cayce center to be an example of his philosophy put into practice.
As Jesus said, "ye shall know them by their fruits." All I know is that the ideas I gained from my study of Edgar Cayce's teachings have led me closer to, not further from, God. | |
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| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/17/2005 8:38:36 PM | I agree that we all need to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling.
But believers are secure in salvation thru the work of Father Son and Spirit and we`re left with the job of having real Truth behind our convictions. I think that`s our only job besides loving people w/o holding grudges.Any one can take verse out of context to hang dirty pool doctrine on.
There are so many great teachers, and song of songs says to make our tents among them.
However I disagree that Abraham`s inheritance ( on which so many religions sprang from ) did not go completely to Jesus.
and I would hate to have another life to go thru this all again. | |
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| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/18/2005 12:20:56 AM | | colossians 2:8 see to it that no one takes you captive thru philosophy or empty deciet, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the universe, and not according to Christ | |
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| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/18/2005 2:25:01 PM |
see to it that no one takes you captive thru philosophy or empty deciet, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the universe, and not according to Christ
Good point (quoting St. Paul), Ruthere. My point in posting this thread has been to state that that the theory, believed in by so many who are, nominally at least, "Christians" --- ie, that "salvation" is basically an instantaneous event not requiring any work on the part of the believer other than accepting Jesus at one moment in your life --- is just that, a theory, "according to human tradition ... and not according to Christ." This theory suggests that Jesus has done it all for us and we really are not obligated to do anything further.
Sure, the advocates of this theory will say, we SHOULD live Christian lives, do good to our fellow man, etc, etc -- but if we don't, no worries, our "salvation" is still intact. This is NOT the teaching of Jesus who said we must "take up our crosses" and FOLLOW Him, ie, actually DO as He did and as He taught. Indeed, "faith without works is dead" and not really faith at all. That is why I suggest that the theory in question is perhaps the worst Christian heresy of all.
Having myself been accused of heresy because I believe in reincarnation and the idea that salvation is a process rather than a single event, it is not without some pleasure that I point this out to all concerned. I hope God can forgive me for that. Where's the little "praying man" icon when you need it?  | |
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| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/18/2005 2:33:44 PM |
"take up our crosses" and FOLLOW Him, ie, actually DO as He did and as He taught. Indeed, "faith without works is dead" and not really faith at all. That is why I suggest that the theory in question is perhaps the worst Christian heresy of all.
Art...The crosses that christians take differ, each according to their own...And, I suppose to follow him is to the enter into the kingdom of heaven, as thats where he went..Do you have any links to this "sit on your backside after believing in Jesus" theology..Or could you explain that in more detail... | |
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| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/18/2005 3:05:30 PM | Nevercanezzer ... no doubt, our "crosses" will all look different in practice and it may be difficult, except in the cases of blatant evildoers, for any of us to judge who is actually taking one up.
Re the "sit on your backside theology": Noone actually comes out and states it quite that baldly. But the implication is there and many take that to heart. I know countless people who have "accepted Jesus" at one point and who were perhaps zealous to live a Christian life at one time but who have long since lost their zeal and now live in anything but a Christian manner. But if you ask them about it, they think they are nevertheless "saved" and expect to be welcomed through the pearly gates at the end of this earthly life. Think, for instance, of Mafia leaders who order an execution one day and then go to confession the next day, thinking that they are thereby absolved and can carry on sinning merrily away. Perhaps they do have some guilt about it but nevertheless take comfort in the fact that at one point they actually accepted Him and therefore all will be forgiven when they shuffle off this mortal coil. That is plainly not the teaching of Jesus.
Personally, I am one of those who accepted Jesus quite sincerely (detailed in my earlier posts) but am not so zealous as I once was. I hesitate to even call myself a Christian because I am afraid to bring disrepute to Christianity if, as is sometimes the case, I conduct myself in other than a Christlike fashion. It's not that I am some sort of rank sinner or blatant evildoer. I do have strong moral beliefs and I try as best I can to live by the Golden Rule of Jesus, ie, treat others as I myself wish to be treated.
In my own mind, I believe that the laws of God will be fulfilled down to "the last jot and tittle", as the Bible says, and that I shall indeed reap what I have sown. That keeps me somewhat on the straight and narrow at least. I don't expect that Jesus will magically make my sins disappear. I do believe He will have some understanding for my human frailty and help me, as I go along, perhaps through many incarnations, to become more like Him so that eventually I will actually deserve to be with Him in that state called "Heaven". | |
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| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/18/2005 3:23:41 PM | | Heaven is likened unto the PNE. If you believe you get a ticket into the gate . but ya can`t go on any rides. If you believe and obey then all the rides are yours. But if you truly love Jesus and follow only Him, well then your in management.lol | |
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| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/18/2005 3:35:56 PM | | Art....Ok thanks for the explanation, and I think I would have to agree with most of your points. However, the mafia guy is a bit of a stretch for a christian sinning and heading off for confession. But I do understand where you are coming from. I had a friend years ago that said he believed that God exists, but continued to live a well "quite a sinful" lifestyle. And in his case it was a very selfish, not caring about others that I had the problem with, not that he was a heavy boozer, druggie etc.. Just the wanton disregard for anybody but himself and his needs.. | |
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| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/18/2005 4:08:27 PM |
Heaven is likened unto the PNE. If you believe you get a ticket into the gate . but ya can`t go on any rides. If you believe and obey then all the rides are yours. But if you truly love Jesus and follow only Him, well then your in management.lol
LOL -- I've heard that theory before, Ruthere. There may be something to it, I don't know. Jesus did say there are "many mansions" in His Father's house. The most sensible belief to me is that there are probably different levels of Heaven and Hell. Even being here on Earth can be alternately heavenly and hellish, I'm sure you will agree.
I have no doubt though that a just God will see to it that we spend time in whatever place is appropriate to help us develop into Christlike souls in the end. For some that might be --- for a time at least --- a fiery place of torment, according to the seeds they have sown in this life or perhaps in other lives here on Earth or in different realms of His universe. According to the Apostles Creed, Jesus descended into Hell to preach to the spirits there. If so, there must be some hope that God, "not willing that any soul should perish", has prepared a way of escape even for those who have been consigned to such a horrific place due to their evil deeds. The God that I believe in -- and I assume that you do too -- is both infinitely merciful and infinitely just. He is "not mocked and, surely, as ye sow, so shall ye reap". Yet at the same time His mercy is infinite and "though we make our bed in hell, He is there". I guess the key point is that he leaves us to make our own beds -- and lie in them -- until we realize that we can't do it properly without His help. At least, that's the belief that gets me through this life. | |
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| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/18/2005 4:43:58 PM | | Your so right that life can be alternatly heavenly and hellish and the one thing that keeps me going is that Jesus promised to never leave me . I`m very prone to leaving Him but as soon as I turn back He`s still there ready to go another mile. I think most people quit cause it`s just so hard. I sure wish I could at times but like the 12 where do you go? | |
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| The worst Christian heresy of all
Posted: 12/18/2005 5:16:00 PM | Good points, Ruthere. Contrary to the cliche so carelessly tossed about by so many unthinking people that "religion is a crutch", to live a genuinely Christian life is infinitely difficult and people who strive to do so are worthy of respect in my book, imperfectly as they may do so at times. That is why, though I may have many disagreements with their theological viewpoints, I have a lot of respect for the courage and integrity shown by people of almost all religious viewpoints who sincerely try to live by the faith that they profess.
Indeed, "whither shall we go, Lord" -- to the barren hopelessness of atheism, living out our brief lives in a meaningless, unjust universe, only to be snuffed out of existence once those lives are over? Not for me! As Tolstoy said "a man has to have faith to live". I believe that faith and reason are not mutually exclusive and that it requires as big a leap of faith to be an atheist as it does to be a "believer".
I suppose that when we die we shall see who has the last laugh, the believers or the atheists. Then again, one thing is certain: if there IS a "last laugh", it won't be the atheists having it, will it? There is a hilarious comedy routine in which the devil is addressing his latest batch of "recruits" into Hell. He pulls the atheists off to one side and says "Well now...you must all be feeling like a right bunch of ninnies!" | |
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