| How can any human enter into something with no beginning and no end?
Posted: 12/20/2005 10:30:16 PM | | Once we enter an eternity we create an eternity with a beginning. Well, the very definition of eternity is without beginning or end. Some say heaven allows us to enter an eternity. How is that possible if eternities have no beginning and no end? | |
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| How can any human enter into something with no beginning and no end?
Posted: 12/20/2005 10:47:40 PM | | Then perhaps a mere human has always existed.... at least on some level and "entering into Heaven" is only entering the bliss where humanity was before the pilgrimage to the miserable existence on the physical plane. Perhaps that was the "real" fall from the Garden of Eden (Pre-Existence/Eternity). | |
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| How can any human enter into something with no beginning and no end?
Posted: 12/20/2005 10:52:15 PM |
Once we enter an eternity we create an eternity with a beginning. Well, the very definition of eternity is without beginning or end. Some say heaven allows us to enter an eternity. How is that possible if eternities have no beginning and no end?
Tim what are you quoting from here?? Text or peoples opinions/beliefs?? | |
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| How can any human enter into something with no beginning and no end?
Posted: 12/22/2005 9:06:30 PM | Then perhaps a mere human has always existed.... at least on some level and "entering into Heaven" is only entering the bliss where humanity was before the pilgrimage to the miserable existence on the physical plane. Perhaps that was the "real" fall from the Garden of Eden (Pre-Existence/Eternity).
Sparda7 if you think we have always existed as humans then are we human or immortal?
Also, I think that it has been said there are "pleasures that the flesh does surely hold".
Tim what are you quoting from here?? Text or peoples opinions/beliefs??
e·ter·ni·ty
e·ter·ni·ty [? túrnitee]
n
1. infinite time: time without beginning or end
lost for all eternity
2. timelessness: the condition, quality, or fact of being without beginning or end
3. religion timelessness after death: a timeless state conceived as being experienced after death
4. very long time: a very long or seemingly very long period of time
It will take an eternity to put it together again.
npl or e·ter·ni·ties
truths said to be eternal: beliefs or ideas about life that are conceived as being timeless
[14th century. Via Old French eternite from Latin aeternitas , from aeternus (see eternal).]
Cultural Note
From Here to Eternity, a movie (1953) by director Fred Zinnemann.
Based on James Jones’s 1951 novel of the same name, it depicts the lives of U.S. military personnel in Hawaii immediately prior to the attack on Pearl Harbor. It is perhaps best remembered for a scene in which Burt Lancaster and Deborah Kerr embrace in the surf.
Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2004 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
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| How can any human enter into something with no beginning and no end?
Posted: 12/23/2005 5:47:01 PM | What goes up must come down...
what came out, goes back in.
In Christianity, the people who return to God, or be "redeemed", were part of Him before Time, and having passed through the fires of time, and after 'participating' in the purpose of expressing the fullness of who HE is, they will return to the source. To some He will say, "I never knew you". Some are *pre-destinated*, or IN Him from the beginning, and some have no part of Him, 'in them'. | |
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 6 | |
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| How can any human enter into something with no beginning and no end?
Posted: 12/23/2005 9:03:24 PM | Here's a quote I value a lot (seriously).
"There is a beginning. There is no beginning of that beginning. There is no beginning of that no beginning of beginning. There is something. There is nothing. There is something before the beginning of something and nothing, and something before that. Suddenly there is something and nothing. But between something and nothing, I still don't really know which is something and which is nothing. Now, I've just said something, but I don't really know whether I've said anything or not.''
It's 2500 year old Taoist scripture atributed to Chuang Tzu. No, it's not a joke - in fact I consider it a very good explanation - but I find it very helpful to remind myself just how much of the universe we can understand by our rational mind alone. Things like eternity and the ever present "now" are like that. But it does make me laugh! | |
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| How can any human enter into something with no beginning and no end?
Posted: 12/24/2005 8:24:19 AM | From the first chapter of the Tao Teh Ching:
Tao can be talked about, but not the Eternal Tao.
Names can be named, but not the Eternal Name.
As the origin of heaven-and-earth, it is nameless:
As "the Mother" of all things, it is nameable.
So, as ever hidden, we shold look at its inner essence:
As always manifest, we should look at its outer aspects.
These two flow from the same, though differently
named;
And both are called mysteries.
The Mystery of mysteries is the Door of all essence. | |
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| How can any human enter into something with no beginning and no end?
Posted: 12/24/2005 6:49:18 PM | how can you name something that is all inclusive
and yet it is every name
from out the universe it speaks our name
from in our heart it does the same
my God my Husband My friend
Thank you for revealing yourself to me
You are the way the truth and the light
no one can come in to you except the Father calls them
from across the great sea | |
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| How can any human enter into something with no beginning and no end?
Posted: 1/16/2006 11:14:34 AM | We dont create our own beginning of eternity when we go to heaven, because we have already been there!
Before we incarnated into our bodies we were with God in heaven. We made an agreement, each one of us, to come down here and do whatever...then when our mission is done, we go back , and continue on with our eternity for the soul.
Only the mortal body has a beginning an an end. | |
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Hokage
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Joined: 11/6/2004
Msg: 12 | |
| How can any human enter into something with no beginning and no end?
Posted: 1/16/2006 11:37:19 AM | I wonder why so many tend to think our energy (soul) comes exclusively from the sky, when it is so obviouse to me that we grow from the ground up.
In my opinion, we don't enter an eternity, that is indeed impossible, we are all already part of the eternity, and have always been. We only change form within this cycle. I also think heaven and hell is merely a state of mind, so be open and enter your own personal heaven right now if you really want to.. hell is a reaction we put on ourselves coming from our own self guilt, so I figure if don't do anything that causes guilt, you'll be hell free.. all you need to do is put out the right intent, and form your mind to it... tricky process, but I believe it makes sense and holds true me. | |
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Hokage
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Joined: 11/6/2004
Msg: 15 | |
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| How can any human enter into something with no beginning and no end?
Posted: 1/16/2006 11:50:58 AM | I am not sure, that is why I asked. If you mean from "scratch" that does not account for where the soul incarnated "from".
If you mean from "dust thou art" , bottom meaning mother earth, then it (mother earth) still has a beginning and mother earth is not eternal. | |
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Hokage
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Joined: 11/6/2004
Msg: 18 | |
| How can any human enter into something with no beginning and no end?
Posted: 1/16/2006 2:08:33 PM | I am not sure, that is why I asked. If you mean from "scratch" that does not account for where the soul incarnated "from".
If you mean from "dust thou art" , bottom meaning mother earth, then it (mother earth) still has a beginning and mother earth is not eternal.
I was just making an arguement to comment that was made about coming from the heavens. When it seems to me that 'if' we are an experience just 'being' through a remembering consciousness, it would seem that we are from the earth... or "dust thou art" as some would say.
Either way, from the ground or from the heavens, you are trying to say that we are coming from somewhere, and I think that we don't come from anywhere, we're just here, now, then, that, there. We just are.
I also said:
We only change form within this cycle.
So the earth is just as emortal or mortal as you and I.. its just taking a certain form for the time being.
Energy cannot not be created, nor destroyed. Only converted.
I say "within this cycle" because energy moves in circles or spirals.
Right NOW our energy has been converted into this, seemingly seperate, experience. Where we come from, or where we are going is irrelevent. In my opinion the important truth is: everything that is, is. Always was, and ever shall be... forever changing.
Where does that leave the soul? well I like to think... "to say yes to one moment, is to say yes to all moments" - anom | |
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| How can any human enter into something with no beginning and no end?
Posted: 1/27/2006 4:33:51 PM | I personally believe that God is the beginning and the end of the universe and beyond. Likewise She is the Creator of all things great and small. Therefore if all things come from God then how could anything exist outside or separate from God? You are right brain in a vat I should have phrased the question differently. Thanks for pointing that out. I hope this gets more of the kind of response I was hoping for.
God is the “tree” of all existence, we and all other things She creates are the leaves. The leaves are born provide nourishment to the tree and then die. They then fall down, back to the roots of the tree, to provide nourishment for the tree once again. This is the only way I have been able to see God as a real entity, how about you? Does anyone know if there are any Biblical or other writings that support this concept of mine?
I loved the laundry joke, Kropotkin | |
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| How can any human enter into something with no beginning and no end?
Posted: 1/27/2006 4:43:50 PM | Tim .. there is a concept derived from the genesis by the early Jewish Scholars, called tsim tsum (not to be confused with chinese dim sum). I need to check up on it, but basically what its impying is that God "shrank" or contracted to make way for the creation/universe. So according to their views the universe/creation is not a part of God.
Also from a new testament point of view, " as Paul in Romans said they abandoned the worship of the creator and worshiped the creation". Pauls view is one of creation being separate from God. | |
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| How can any human enter into something with no beginning and no end?
Posted: 1/28/2006 9:33:20 PM | How about this,
Metaphysically, we are all aspects of God, with no beginning and no end. Human beingness is just the temporary, physical manifestation of God/Holy Spirit/Love/Interconnectedness/Belonging/Unlimited Field/The All/Nirvana/Heaven/Tao/Eternity. We enter into this something by becoming aware of it as our true nature/essence. Only by not being aware are we separate from who we really are. I am you, you and I are inseparable. We are both of God. We live to learn, as we cannot learn in the same way when discorporate.
Logically, humans are physically finite and as the other gentleman mentioned there is a non sequitor when considering something physically entering where there is no physical entrance, from or to, when there is no beginning and no end. Ipso facto, humans can only enter something with no beginning and no end when they are released from the limited capabilities of humanity to discern that being human is more than a physical manifestation, that we are already a part of this something with no beginning and no end. Again, a matter of awareness and semantics.
My question is, why do you want to know? | |
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| How can any human enter into something with no beginning and no end?
Posted: 1/28/2006 10:04:11 PM | I am assuming you are not a believer of God? I am not and I can easily see the flaw in your statement.
Once we enter an eternity we create an eternity with a beginning.
I am not exactly sure what you mean when you say "enter an eternity", but this is my best answer to your question. Just because we enter something (whether it be something intangible like an eternity or tangible like a building) doesn't mean that it didn't exist before we got there.
The definition of eternity is not without beginning or end as you suggested in your question. However it is a seemingly endless or immeasurable time. This means that an eternity could and probably does have a definite beginning and end, but since we were not around to know when the beginning started or the end has not yet arrived, we refer to it as an eternity.
In the instance of the "after life", the word eternity take on a whole new meaning. Here it is simply considered immortality, and for people who believe in reincarnation, heaven or any other after life, it can be referred to as "eternity". | |
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