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 Author Thread: Conservative poisoning the well with labels like "conspiracy theory".
 Elwood Blues

Joined: 12/10/2004
Msg: 1
Conservative poisoning the well with labels like "conspiracy theory".
Posted: 1/2/2005 7:21:41 PM
This term is used SO often it makes me sick.

Do we not KNOW that the Bush Administration (or ANY US government administration), the Pentagon, Don Rumsfeld and big business LIE to protect their own interests when they conflict with the rest of the general public?

If you're not a sheep brain, you understand this.

Is it not then REASONABLE for people not to accept the government's explanation for the way things happened and the reasons they happen when it's been shown SO MANY TIMES that they've LIED???????????????????????????????

Almost every news item that comes up having to do with government errors they won't admit to is called a "conspiracy theory" these days...

Why?

It's a term Fox broadcasting has indoctrinated us with... as if we're supposed to accept every weak lie of a justification the government puts out about it's terrible mistakes.

Here's a short list of things that have been called "conspiracy theories" just lately:

The bush administration and donald rumsfeld's connection to Abu Ghraib
The occupation of Iraq isn't going that well
The Bush administration manufactured evidence of WMD's as an excuse to attack Iraq
The Bush tax cut didn't work and now the national debt is going through the roof, actually weakening the dollar
Bush outed a CIA agent in retribution for her husband telling the truth concerning a lie about Iraq and nuclear material the administration was trying to deny.

Today, I heard an analyst on Fox news talk about bush's plan to privatize a portion of social security. This analyst said "We know the democrats are afraid of privatization of social security funds because they don't WANT the public to know how well the stock market works."

*LOL* TELL ME ABOUT the media being "Liberal"?

I wonder where this guy heard THAT?
Talk about conspiracy theories *WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOO* :-D

yeah... like I'm sure he heard Teddy Kenedy and Bill Clinton discussing this behind closed doors...

Fair and balanced?????

OHMYGAWD!!!!
 joefixit

Joined: 11/17/2004
Msg: 2
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History
Conservative poisoning the well with labels like
Posted: 1/2/2005 9:57:03 PM
Yea, thanks for actually saying something about this. It bugs the crap out of me that people would rather not think. It is all too common these days. I like what Michael Ruppert wrote in his book, "Crossing the Rubicon - The Decline of the American Empire at the end of the Age of Oil", when he said, "I'll admit to being a conspiracy theorist, if you'll admitt to being a coincidence theorist."

The assumption is that is it isn't on Fox News or CNN, it is a conspiracy. Realize this though, it is merely the lower echelon on intelligence who fall for the misleading media propaganda. We just need to wake them up a bit.

Since we know that there are a very few people who control thought in the US, by censorship. Ask any journalist about this, they know.
 newguy106

Joined: 7/26/2006
Msg: 3
Conservative poisoning the well with labels like
Posted: 9/3/2006 11:42:14 PM

Since we know that there are a very few people who control thought in the US, by censorship. Ask any journalist about this, they know


Uh huh, it's called writing in the best interest of the guy who pays you. IF the story is not in his best interest, you are best not to write it or best to alter it.
 marita_b

Joined: 6/15/2005
Msg: 4
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History
Conservative poisoning the well with labels like
Posted: 9/4/2006 5:12:33 AM
The assumption is that is it isn't on Fox News or CNN, it is a conspiracy. Realize this though, it is merely the lower echelon on intelligence who fall for the misleading media propaganda.????

are you sure it's not the other way around???
 newguy106

Joined: 7/26/2006
Msg: 5
Conservative poisoning the well with labels like
Posted: 9/4/2006 8:21:25 AM

are you sure it's not the other way around???


Are you sure the world is flat?
 anticon

Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 6
Conservative poisoning the well with labels like
Posted: 9/4/2006 8:30:35 AM


Are you sure the world is flat?

Actually, the shape of the world was once considered a crazy theory. People were burned at the stake for saying otherwise... just like people criticize others now for inventing theories about what the government might have done.

Ask yourself... as those who didn't believe the world was flat must have asked: If the explanation doesn't answer the questions we have, what choice do WE have but to guess if we don't know the truth?... and believe the theory that answers those same questions?

Also ask yourself: If someone appears to have committed a crime and they're arrested by the police for probable cause, do the police cut the person loose because the first theory is wrong? or do they search for others before letting them go?

Trial and error is the only way humanity has learned anything. It was only by proving great scientists (theorists, that is) like Hippocrates, Descartes and Newton WRONG that we know what we know today. They had the guts to take a guess... and until then, we were clueless.
 Truth Seeker

Joined: 8/2/2005
Msg: 7
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History
Conservative poisoning the well with labels like conspiracy theory.
Posted: 12/7/2006 6:25:32 AM
Keep up the good work Elwood Blues. You clearly took the red pill. Just ignor the sheep and those trying to confuse issues. Fox "news" is one of the biggest propanganda machines out there and works for the NWO agenda, as do most lame stream media's today.
The THEORY that people from caves came to the US and made the military stand down so they could fly airliners into the WTC buildings, doesn't hold any truth. That is the real Conspiracy Theory. The actual conspiracy is that it was an inside job. ALL major modern terror attacks were government sponsered false flage events...suckers!
Go ahead sheeple, beg for big brother to take away your rights to protect you. Please big brother put a chip in my arm so you can find me, put lots of chemicals in me so I don't have to think, help yourself to everything I own, kill me if you want....really we don't mind being slaves and test rats.
 marita_b

Joined: 6/15/2005
Msg: 8
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History
Conservative poisoning the well with labels like conspiracy theory.
Posted: 12/8/2006 11:30:54 AM
At least fox and it's ilk you can see coming,....you know what they are,...

it's the ones that profess they aren't,....those ones you have to watch out for,..
their agenda may not be as recognizable but they too have one,....if you know what to look for,....

none of them just give you the who, what, when, where and why anymore,....
 gottalight

Joined: 12/15/2005
Msg: 9
Conservative poisoning the well with labels like conspiracy theory.
Posted: 12/8/2006 1:14:40 PM

labels like conspiracy theory.


Perhaps you prefer words like "rampant speculation," "mass psychosis," or "deluded conclusions?"

It's best to leave the theories out of the equations, and focus on the facts. Once you have jumped to your hypothetical conclusion on items such as Iraqi WMD's, the Plame affair, and most any other issue I could possibly name; wouldn't it be better to keep your conclusion to yourself and let the facts speak for themselves? I just love the way some people continue to spew their phrases like "illegal war" and "oil war" when they clearly have come to their own conclusions. To use either one of those phrases assumes a conspiracy. Why can't a spade be called a spade?
 anticon

Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 10
Conservative poisoning the well with labels like conspiracy theory.
Posted: 12/8/2006 4:06:41 PM


Perhaps you prefer words like "rampant speculation," "mass psychosis," or "deluded conclusions?"

If you could justify a comment by proving it's false, that would be one thing; but to label any "theory" as nonsense is nothing but a cover for the bush administration and their deception.

Tell me which conspiracy theory was not right?

The one about no WMD's in Iraq?
the one about bush lying to invade?
The one about foreign torture camps and innocent prisoners?
Murdered prisoners?

Can you call any of these theories ""rampant speculation," "mass psychosis," or "deluded conclusions"?

I think not.
 gottalight

Joined: 12/15/2005
Msg: 11
Conservative poisoning the well with labels like conspiracy theory.
Posted: 12/8/2006 5:46:39 PM

The one about no WMD's in Iraq?



Not a conspiracy theory. It is a reasonable conclusion derived from the evidence obtained after the invasion.


the one about bush lying to invade?


This is a conspiracy theory, and relies on the assumption that Bush intentionally falsified what he percieved as credible evidence. It is not a truly reasonable conclusion considering that the invasion provided the data necessary to develop the conclusion to a reasonable certainty.



The one about foreign torture camps and innocent prisoners?


Not a conspiracy theory until one attempts to tie a conspiracy to the data.


Murdered prisoners?



It certainly was shameful what the Iraqi's did to Jessica Lynch's group, but it is not a conspiracy theory until you can connect the chain of command. Or were you referring to Nick Berg, or Daniel Pearl. There were so many murdered prisoners that I just can't remember which was a conspiracy, and which was an unjust retribution.


3 out 4 facts without conclusions. You certainly are improving.
 the analog kid

Joined: 9/28/2006
Msg: 12
Conservative poisoning the well with labels like conspiracy theory.
Posted: 12/8/2006 6:09:57 PM
I don't know if it is poisoning the well per se as it is *trying to get people to stop thinking by ridiculing them*. I am not a conspiracy theorist by any stretch of the imagination (and let's face it, there are some *whoppers* out there). However, I think any sane clear thinking individual can make some connections between a chain of events and come to a reasonable conclusion, such as Bush lied to the country to get control of Iraq's oil. I attended a history lecture at McMaster University a few years ago, and it was a course in contemporary US history, around the time the invasion was about to begin. It was shameful to say the least. The conservative professor prefaced a lot of her points with "conspiracy theorists will say etc, etc, etc. I don't know about you, but any historical analysis is premised on an ability to make connections between things/events. Clearly her intention was to crush dissent in the egg by ridiculing any potential connections,thus perpetuating the status quo. That really was an unprofessional thing--she was essentially stifling any kind of legitimate inquiry--the antithesis of higher education.
cheers
 anticon

Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 13
Conservative poisoning the well with labels like conspiracy theory.
Posted: 12/9/2006 7:31:44 AM

any historical analysis is premised on an ability to make connections between things/events.

of COURSE that's the case!

to not theorize about what actually happened, based upon statements of facts and evidence is pure benign ignorance.

I would suggest that those who are not "theorists" are dunces; hardly capable of critical thinking... as dumb as the aztecs who believed Cortez was a god... etc...

Nobody can believe what people say. Even people one trusts might be mistaken.

"Rely but verify."
 the analog kid

Joined: 9/28/2006
Msg: 14
Conservative poisoning the well with labels like conspiracy theory.
Posted: 12/9/2006 7:54:31 AM
re:message 15, anticon

Hey: oh sure. I was just trying to make the point that any kind of critical thinking about events and such are being stifled. Don't want the lower class to do that--they just *might* begin to politicize. And to get that from an institution of "higher learning" is quite discouraging to say the least. Clearly the ruling class has no clothes, as Chomsky would say.
cheers
 Jazzhead

Joined: 5/26/2005
Msg: 15
Conservative poisoning the well with labels like conspiracy theory.
Posted: 12/9/2006 8:24:17 AM
There was a movie that starred Robert Redford back in the late 70's or early 80's. It was about computers and it was done before computers really took hold as a standard commodity in most peoples homes.

Pretty good flick overall, with the story of a lot of "conspiracy theory" stuff it, But one of the final lines in the movie said it all and I think a lot of people probably missed it.

It said, "The person/people who will control the country/world will do so not with money, power or anything like that, but with INFORMATION. Whoever controls information controls the whole thing."

You'd have to be deaf, dumb and blind to not understand that thats precisely what's happening today. Watch out for the smoke screens because those are the little distractions that keep our eye's, ears, and minds OFF the real stories.

Oh yea by the way, for all you "party divisive" folks out there, this isn't a DEM. or REP. thing it's been taking place in BOTH parties since the country was founded.

 anticon

Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 16
Conservative poisoning the well with labels like conspiracy theory.
Posted: 12/9/2006 8:59:48 AM
That's so true.... it's just the way government works... exagerating outside threats, lying about the economy, defense secrets, assassinations, power grabs... it's all there. NOBODY ever comes out and tells people about these things for obvious reasons, usually that there's a struggle for power between people, classes, and money interests in the society and many tactics are illegal or totally unethical; but there are some people and governments run by them that are far more malicious and homicidal than the rest.

Bush is one of those.
 gottalight

Joined: 12/15/2005
Msg: 17
Conservative poisoning the well with labels like conspiracy theory.
Posted: 12/9/2006 10:06:18 AM

to not theorize about what actually happened, based upon statements of facts and evidence is pure benign ignorance.

I would suggest that those who are not "theorists" are dunces; hardly capable of critical thinking... as dumb as the aztecs who believed Cortez was a god... etc...

Nobody can believe what people say. Even people one trusts might be mistaken.

"Rely but verify."


We can propose theories, and we can accept the conclusions blindly.

We can propose theories, and deny the conclusions blindly.

We can propose theories, and weigh the conclusions reasonably.

We can propose theories, and dismiss some of them without prejudice, because even if they are correct, there isn't a whole lot we can do to change the outcome.

I don't believe that a lot of conspiracy theories have been verified, and new unverified ones appear almost daily. Perhaps that's why the label is so prevalent?

We can propose theories, and attempt to verify them before making them the basis of our entire political perspective.
 late™

Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 18
Conservative poisoning the well with labels like conspiracy theory.
Posted: 12/9/2006 1:49:03 PM
Excellent post ^^^^^

The extremes in any political arena seem to base their mantras on the "less than credible", and this ends up having a kind of echo effect or guilt by association with either side's more moderate perspectives.
 the analog kid

Joined: 9/28/2006
Msg: 19
Conservative poisoning the well with labels like conspiracy theory.
Posted: 12/9/2006 2:06:19 PM
There are people who don't accept, who aren't obedient. They are weeded out, they're "behavior problems". The long-term effect of this is to reward and foster subordination; it begins in kindergarten and goes all the way through your professional or other career. If you challenge authority, you get in one or another kind of trouble. It's not 100 percent the case, and there are some areas of life were it's dramatically not the case, but on average and overwhelmingly in the outcomes, it holds.

If something comes along that you don't like, there are a few sort of four-letter words that you can use to push it out of the sphere of discussion. If you were in a bar downtown, they might have different words, but if you're an educated person what you use are complicated words like "conspiracy theory" or "Marxist." It's a way of pushing unpleasant questions off the agenda so that we can continue in our own happy ideology.

--Noam Chomsky
 kabiosile

Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 20
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History
Conservative poisoning the well with labels like conspiracy theory.
Posted: 12/9/2006 4:09:45 PM
If the government or media says it they call it "News" or "Fact" even if its an outright lie.

If you or I learn something and report it they call it "conspiracy theory" even if it is the truth.

Fact is the same arguement that works in religion works here. The truth is the truth it does not require for anyone to believe in it for it to continue being the truth. Just because more people believe a lie does not make it truth. No matter how the powers that be try to shift attention from the truth by using labels like "conspiracy theory" in the end the truth will continue being the truth. Those who come to see will no longer be blinded by the falsehoods put out as truths and the liars will eventually most often be exposed.

There are some theories out there that are obviously done without proper research and education. These theories do not in any way discredit the ones that have been discovered by proper research and education. The side that lies will always try to divert attention from the truthful side. This is what has been happening in the major media for a long time. Anytime someone who is in the know comes out and speaks the truth, that may go against what government officials or the mainstream media, who more often than not only report the government line often call anyone who goes against this "conspiracy theorists."

It is interesting to see what effect this has had on the mentality of the public at large. Go out to anyplace where common people hang out and ask people on a one on one basis "If I say the word conspiracy what is the first word that comes to your mind?" Anytime I have done this "Theory" is said 99% of the time.

Look at how many times in history conspiracy was part of what was going on. History is riddled with TONS of conspiracies done by both governments and fringe groups alike.

I wonder how many people in Germany called people conspiracy theorists for telling about the treatment of the Jews, the Gypsies, the handicapped, artists, and other people who were being rounded up and slaughtered!

I applaud the fact that people today are becoming more sceptical of their governments and what they are being told. This is a VERY good sign! This is a ray of hope that we will not fall into complete fascist control. The government of the USA just like most other governments of the world have proven themselves to be liars many times over. They have been caught red handed several times involved in conspiracies to commit crimes. I will give a couple examples since I know someone will type cite LOL. Iran-Contra, Bay of Pigs, Terrorist bombing of Cuban airline. These are just a few examples could go on for much longer but, I am sure you get the point.




<div class='quote'>
I just love the way some people continue to spew their phrases like "illegal war" and "oil war" when they clearly have come to their own conclusions. To use either one of those phrases assumes a conspiracy.


The term illegal war does not really assume conspiracy nor does it count it out. It is a valid term since the USA acted against agreements it made in the UN Geneva conventions as well as a few other parts of international law. The USA was not acting in self defense and went against what the UN had come up with as a primary attempt at a solution for the issue. If you recall Iraq was still allowing inspectors into the country when the USA invaded. There is nothing wrong with calling it an illegal war because technically it is.



<div class='quote'>
Under Chapter VII of the United Nations Charter, to which the United States is a party, a nation's use of force is authorized under only two circumstances: in individual or collective self-defense, as outlined in Article 51, or pursuant to a Security Council resolution, as outlined in Article 42.

Self Defense

Since it was not directly attacked by Iraq the United States did not have an obvious right to self-defense. The administration, though, argued that it had a right to defend itself preemptively against a future possible attack. In his speech to the United Nations on September 12, 2002, President Bush described Saddam Hussein's regime as "a grave and gathering danger," detailed that regime's persistent efforts to acquire weapons of mass destruction, and spoke of an "outlaw regime" providing such weapons to terrorists.

The Security Council

The 15-member United Nations Security Council did not authorize the March 19, 2003 attack on Iraq. It unanimously passed Resolution 1441 on November 8, 2002, calling for new inspections intended to find and eliminate Iraq's weapons of mass destruction. (The Arms Control Association provides a chronology of previous weapons inspections in Iraq.) Iraq accepted the renewed inspections, which were to be carried out by UNMOVIC and the IAEA. Under the terms of the resolution, if Iraq obstructed their work, the chief inspectors were to report promptly back to the Security Council, which would "convene immediately" to consider the situation and "the need for full compliance." The resolution also threatened "serious consequences" if Iraq failed to comply.

The United States, backed by Britain and Spain, began to seek a second U.N. resolution to declare Iraq in material breach of its obligation to disarm. Veto-wielding permanent members France, Russia and China, as well as a number of other members, preferred to give inspectors more time on the premise that inspections were working. Up against a deeply divided Council, the U.S. pulled its proposal on March 17.




There is also these letters sent to the UN by Iraq some would say they are conspiracy theories back then I am sure most of it proved to be true.




Mr. Kofi Annan

The Secretary-General of the United Nations

New York, N.Y.

Your Excellency

Assalamu Alaykum,

You may recall the huge clamor fabricated by the President of the United States administration, in the biggest and most wicked slander against Iraq, supported in malicious intent, and spearheaded in word and malevolence, by his lackey Tony Blair, when they disseminated the claim that Iraq had perhaps produced, or was on its way to produce, nuclear weapons, during the time when the United Nations inspectors had been absent from Iraq since 1998. Then they returned to stress that Iraq had, in fact produced chemical and biological weapons. They both know, as well as we do, and so can other countries, that such fabrications are baseless. But does the knowledge of the truth constitute elements for interaction in the politics of our day, which has witnessed the unleashing of the American administration's evil to its fullest extent, dashing all hope in any good? Indeed, is there any good to be goped for, or expected, from the American administrations, now that they have been transformed by their own greed, by Zionism as well as by other known factors, in the tyrant of the age.

Let's go back to say that Iraq, having seen this fabrication work perhaps with some countries and amongst public opinion, while others maintained silence, confronted them with its agreement to the return of the UN inspectors, having agreed on this first with you, as UN chief, in New York on 16 September, 2002, and later in a press statement issued jointly in Vienna following a meeting on 30th September-1st October between an Iraqi technical delegation headed by Dr. Amer Al-Sa'di, Chief Inspector Hans Blix and Dr. Mohamed ElBaradei, the Director General of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA).

But after Iraq's acceptance of the return of the UN inspectors had become an established fact, including the agreement of 19 October 2002, on the date of their return, and only a few hours this agreement was reached, Colin Powell, the US Secretary of State, declared that he would refuse to accept the inspectors' return to Iraq. In the meantime the gang of evil returned to talking about adopting a new resolution, or new resolutions, in order to create something for the world to talk about, other than following the work of the inspectors and then seeing the fact already stated by Iraq, which was that Iraq neither had produced nor was in possession of any weapons of mass destruction, nuclear, chemical or biological, throughout the time of the inspectors' absence from Iraq.

However, representatives at the United Nations and its agencies, especially those from permanent member-states, instead of fellowship up on this and hence, expose those responsible for the dissemination of lies and fabrications, were busy discussing the type and wording of the new resolution. They were indulged in what word or letter to add here or omit there, until they adopted a text under the pretext that it would be better to take the kicks of a raging bull in a small circle than to face its horns in an open space. The text was adopted under the American Administration's pressure and threat it would leave UN, if it did not agree to what America wanted, which is, to say the least, extremely evil and shameful to every honest member of the United Nations who recalls the provisions of its Charter, and see that some people feel ashamed on behalf of those who shameless.

Mr. Secretary-General,

We have said to the member of the Security-Council whom we have contacted us, when they told us about the pretexts of the Americans and their threat to perpetrate aggression against our country, whether unilaterally or with participated from others, if the Council were not to allow them to have their way, that we preferred, if it ever became necessary to see America carry out its aggression against us unilaterally, when we would have to confront it relying on Allah, instead of seeing the American government obtaining an international cover with which to camouflage its falsehood, partially or completely, bringing it closer to the truth, so that it may stab the truth with the dagger of evil and confronted the United States before when it looked as it does now, and this was one of the factors of its isolation in the human environment on the globe at large.

The aggressionism of the United States of America and its single-handed infliction of injustice and destruction on those subjected to its inequity, in the forefront of whom are the Muslims and Arab believers, is the basic reason why America has withdrawn its ambassadors and other staff, close its embassies, and restrict its interests in many parts of the world; while reaping the hatred of the peoples of the world due to its policies and aggressive objectives. This is a situation which no other country in the world has experienced before, including the fathers of old colonialism. The Security Council, however, or indeed those who can basically play an influential role in it have, instead of leaving the American administration and its lackey reap the result of their evil, saved wrong-doing rather than hated it. We shall see when remorse will not do any good for those who bite on their fingers.

Mr. Secretary-General,

The strength of influence of any international (al) organization rests on the belief of the human environment in which the organization exists and which places its trust in it, once the organization declares that it has been founded to achieve goals important to mankind. We fear that the United Nations Organization may lose the trust and attachment of peoples, that is if it has not fallen to that place already. This is due to the exploitation of the organization of powerful interests, whenever their greedy ambitions converge at the expense of the interests of other peoples. It may also be due to expediency and compromise amongst those interests in falsehood at the expense of truth. So far United Nations Organization and its agencies will collapse in the same way as did its predecessor, the league of Nations. Then, the responsibility for this will not rest with the American administrations alone, but will also be due to the weakness of the timid who will allow themselves to work for American interests, under the threat, lure or promises of the American administration.

He who remains silent in the defense of truth is a dumb devil. Nothing seems more reprehensible than the silence maintained by those who represented their nations in the security Council, as they discussed the American draft resolution, in the face of a question raised by representative of Mexico regarding the possibility of lifting the blockade imposed on Iraq. The Mexican representative said, during consultations at the Security Council over SCR 1441 on 7 November 2002, that he did not find convincing the explanations presented by the American Permanent Representative, regarding the absence of any reference to the lifting of sanctions and the establishment in the Middle East region of a zone free of weapons of mass destruction, and that he would convey this to his government in order to receive instructions. The British Representative responded by saying that he has listened to the statements made by the delegations of Syria and Mexico regarding the inclusion in the draft text of a paragraph on the lifting of sanctions. He went on to say that Iraq had been provided with the opportunity to dispose of its weapons of mass destruction, but Iraq had ignored that opportunity and decided to keep possession of those WMDs. Hence, he added, it would be inappropriate to include a reference to the lifting of sanctions as long as Iraq remained in possession of those weapons, even though an indirect reference to that effect was being accommodated.

We ask here, why is it that none of the representatives of SC member-states asked their British counterpart when, where and how such an alleged decision was taken by Iraq to keep possession of the weapons of mass destruction. They treated the claim made by the British representative as if it were of no significance to them; Or, rather, as if it were of no concern to them to say the truth. Does not this instance, along with other things and the decline of this type of international organizations point to the possibility of the collapse of this international organization which was founded in order to preserve world peace and security, but has now been transformed into a kitched-house for big-power bargaining, providing cover for war, destruction, blockades and starvation to be inflicted upon peoples.

The future will be determined in the light of the possibility for reform, or the inability to achieve reform. The future of the United Nations is no exception to this. Hence, all those who are truly concerned about the well-being of this organization, in deeds not only in words, and about its work on the basis of the UN Charter, so that stability, justice and fairness will prevail in the world, providing a road-map for peace, freedom and cooperation to flourish amongst peoples, are called upon to be careful and to adhere to the UN Charter and international law and not to the whims and incontrollable instincts of those who threaten the world with their evil schemes weaponry and those who seek to achieve their interests narrow-mindedly by resorting to bargaining at the expense of the truth, justice and fairness.

We know that those who pressed the Security Council to adopt resolution No. 1441 have other objectives than making sure that Iraq had not developed mass destruction weapons in the absence of the inspectors since 1998. You are aware of how and who stood behind their absence. We also know that there are no true, just, or fair reasons behind the adoption of this resolution in the name of the security council, after the well known understanding agreement between the representatives of Iraq and the UN Secretary General and the press statement issued jointly by Blix, ElBaradei, and the Iraqi representatives. We hereby inform you that we will deal with resolution 1441, despite its bad contents, if it is to be implemented according to the premeditated evil of the parties of ill-intent, the important thing in this is trying to spare our people from harm. But we will not forget, nor should others do, that safeguarding our people's dignity, security, independence and protecting our sovereignty and sublime values, is as a sacred duty in our leadership's and government's agenda. Therefore, as we said in the foresaid agreement and press statement, we are prepared to receive the inspectors, so they can carry out their duties, and make sure Iraq had not developed weapons of mass destruction, during their absence since 1998.

We hereby ask you to inform the Security Council that we are prepared to receive the inspectors within the assigned timetable. The parties concerned should bear in mind that wer are in our holy month of Ramadan which means that the people are fasting, and this holy month will be followed by Muslim's Eid. Nevertheless, we will cooperate with the concerned UN bodies and officials on the background of all this, and of the tripartite, French-Russian-China, statement. Dealing with the inspectors, the government of Iraq will, also, take into consideration, their way of conduct, the intentions of those who are ill-intentioned amongst them and their improper approach in showing respect to the people's national dignity, their independence and security, and their country's security, independence and sovereignty. We are eager to see them perform their duties in accordance with the international law as soon as possible. If they do so, professionally and lawfully, without any premeditated intentions, the lairs' lies will be exposed to public opinion, and the declared objective of the Security Council will be achieved. It will then become the lawful duty of the Security Council to lift the blockade and all other unjust sanctions on Iraq. If it does not, all the people's of good will in the world, in addition to Iraq, will tell it to do so. The SC will be compelled to before the public opinion and the law to activate paragraph 14 of its resolution No. 687, by applying it to the Zionist entity (Israel), and then, to all the Middle East region, to make it a region void of mass destruction weapons. The number of just people will, then, increase in the world, and Iraq's possibility of driving away the cawing of the crows of evil that daily raid its land, and kill Iraqis and destroy their property by their bombs. This will help the stability of the region and the world, if it is accompanied by a resolution that will not be based on double standards, to put an end to Zionist occupation of Palestine, and other occupied Arab territories, and if the warmongers stop their aggressions on the Muslims and the world.

Therefore, through you, we reiterate the same words to Security Council: Send your inspectors to Iraq to make sure of this, and everyone will be sure, if their way of conduct is supervised so that it becomes legal and professional, that Iraq has not developed weapons of mass destruction, whether nuclear, chemical, or biological, as claimed by evil people. The lies and manipulation of the American government will be exposed, while the world will see how truthful and adequate are the Iraqis in what they say and do. But if the whims of the American administration, the Zionist desires, their followers, intelligence services, threats, and foul temptation, were given the chance to temper and play with inspection teams or some of their members, the colors would then be confused and resulting commotion will distort the facts and push the situation in dangerous directions which is something fair-minded people do not wish for, as well as the people, including my government, want to bring forward the facts as they are. The fieldwork and implementation will be the decisive factors that will reveal whether the were really for the Security Council to make sure Iraq is void of those alleged weapons, or whether the whole thing was an evil cover by those who were behind the resolution who have no scruples to utter debased slander and to tell lies to the public opinion including to their own peoples.

So, let the inspectors come to Baghdad to carry out their duties in accordance with the law, and then we will hear and see along with who want to hear, see and move according each one's responsibility and rights. The final word and reference will still be resolution No. 687 with its obligations on both the Sec General and Iraq, along with the code of conduct agreed upon in the agreement signed by the Sec Gen in New York on 16th September 2002, and the press statement of Hans Blix and ElBaradei in Vienna in 30/90 1/10/2002.

Mr. Secretary-General,

Please assume your responsibilities, by saying and advising the unfair people that their unfairness to Muslims, faithful Arabs, and to all, will be of dire consequences, and that God, the almighty, is capable of doing everything. Tell them that the proud Iraqi people are faithful and Mujahid and who had fought the old colonialism, imperialism and aggression, including the tyrant's aggression, for years and years. The price this courageous people paid to safeguard their independence, dignity, sublime principles was rivers of blood, with a lot of deprivation and loss of their riches, along with their eternal achievements and record of which they are proud. Therefore we hope you will, Mr. Secretary General, advise the ignorants not to push things to the precipice, in the implementation, because the people of Iraq will not choose to live at the price of their dignity, country, freedom or sanctities, and they would rather make their lives the price if that was the only way to safeguard what they must safeguard.

I wish to inform your Excellency before I conclude this letter, that I intend to forward another letter to you on a later date, in which I shall state our observations the measures and procedures, contained in SCR 1441 that are contrary to international law, UN charter, the facts already established and the measures contained in previous relevant resolutions of the Security Council.

"Do ye secure He Who is in Heaven will not cause you to be swallowed up by the earth when it shakes"

(Allah's is the Word of Truth)

Allah is the Greatest.

Naji Saberi Ahmed

Minister of Foreign Affairs

Republic of Iraq


Oil war part of your claim:

Oil war also fits here. The USA and Britain have been causing much trouble in Iraq for a very long time. All of it has been over the fact that Iraq has the second largest oil reserve in the world. In fact sanctions were put on Iraq after it nationalized the oil! Women and children died in great numbers due directly to these sanctions. Remember when they blew up the powered milk factory and claimed they were making chemical weapons there? I remember seeing the news report. The reporter as well as the workers from the plant talking in the rubble of the plant with no protective gear that I would obviously think one would wear if they were making chemicals there. There was nothing there but powered milk. It was the biggest powered milk factory in Iraq and was one of the few places that was making food for the babies of Iraq it was an attempt to further starve the children of Iraq.

since we are on this subject watch this video it has the very scene I am speaking of and gives a detailed history of why it should be called "oil war." This video also has numerous other dirty campaigns the USA has been involved in throughout the 3rd world. There are several ex CIA and officials who come out and speak out against this telling the public what has been going on. I am sure you will try to call all of this conspiracy theory too.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2417479552668018592&q=martin+luther+king&hl=en
 sheik_yerbouti

Joined: 11/7/2006
Msg: 21
Conservative poisoning the well with labels like conspiracy theory.
Posted: 12/9/2006 5:07:57 PM
The only type of people I've ever heard the term 'conspiracy theorist' applied to are people who believe the CIA assasinated Kennedy, the Bush adminstration orchestrated 9/11, the moon landing was faked, etc. That is to say, people who have THEORIES about CONSPIRACIES within the government. I have not heard about anyone being called conspiracy theorists merely for being ulta liberal and/or opposed to the current administration in America, but those who do are obviously mis-using the term and probably
take Anne Coulter and Bill O'Reilly little more seriously than is good for them.
 the analog kid

Joined: 9/28/2006
Msg: 22
Conservative poisoning the well with labels like conspiracy theory.
Posted: 12/9/2006 5:14:35 PM
"but those who do are obviously mis-using the term and probably
take Anne Coulter and Bill O'Reilly little more seriously than is good for them."


Hey sheik: Maybe that's part of the problem (pablum?!)--the mental *lemmings* who listen to these idiots with an uncritical mind....one of the great conspiracies in history was the gassing of the jews by Hitler--but whenever anybody raises *that* issue, nobody calls anybody else a conspiracy theorist.....



cheers
 anticon

Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 23
Conservative poisoning the well with labels like conspiracy theory.
Posted: 12/9/2006 9:41:47 PM


The only type of people I've ever heard the term 'conspiracy theorist' applied to are people who believe the CIA assasinated Kennedy, the Bush adminstration orchestrated 9/11, the moon landing was faked, etc. That is to say, people who have THEORIES about CONSPIRACIES within the government.

but the meaning of the term still has a negative interpretation... as if the only person who would suspect the government of doing anything wrong are fools... which we know isn't true.
After this many conspiracy theories... especially noteworthy examples of where the US government has CONSPIRED and HARMED it's own citizens to achieve the aims of higherups for their own agenda and personal interests have been proven CORRECT, how can this still be a term of derision?

Examples:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

Operation Northwoods
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Northwoods Memorandum (March 13, 1962) (PDF)Operation Northwoods, or Northwoods, was a 1962 plan to generate U.S. public support for military action against the Cuban government of Fidel Castro, as part of the U.S. government's Operation Mongoose anti-Castro initiative. The plan, which was not implemented, called for various false flag actions, including simulated or real state-sponsored acts of terrorism (such as hijacked planes) on U.S. and Cuban soil. The plan was proposed by senior U.S. Department of Defense leaders, including the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Lyman Louis Lemnitzer.

The proposal was presented in a document entitled Justification for US Military Intervention in Cuba,[1] a collection of draft memoranda written by the Department of Defense (DoD) and the Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS) representative to the Caribbean Survey Group. The document was presented by the JCS to Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara on March 13 with one paragraph approved, as a preliminary submission for planning purposes.

The previously secret document was originally made public on November 18, 1997 by the John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Review Board, a U.S. federal agency overseeing the release of government records related to John F. Kennedy's assassination. A total of about 1500 pages of once-secret military records covering 1962 to 1964 were concomitantly declassified by said Review Board.

"Appendix to Enclosure A" and "Annex to Appendix to Enclosure A" of the Northwoods document were first published online by the National Security Archive on November 6, 1998 in a joint venture with CNN as part of CNN's 1998 Cold War television documentary series — specifically, as a documentation supplement to "Episode 10: Cuba," which aired on November 29, 1998.[2] "Annex to Appendix to Enclosure A" is the section of the document which contains the proposals to stage terrorist attacks.

The Northwoods document was published online in a more complete form (i.e., including cover memoranda) by the National Security Archive on April 30, 2001..."

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0762136.html

The Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment
The United States government did something that was wrong—deeply, profoundly, morally wrong. It was an outrage to our commitment to integrity and equality for all our citizens. . . . clearly racist.
—President Clinton's apology for the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment to the eight remaining survivors, May 16, 1997
For forty years between 1932 and 1972, the U.S. Public Health Service (PHS) conducted an experiment on 399 black men in the late stages of syphilis. These men, for the most part illiterate sharecroppers from one of the poorest counties in Alabama, were never told what disease they were suffering from or of its seriousness. Informed that they were being treated for “bad blood,”1 their doctors had no intention of curing them of syphilis at all. The data for the experiment was to be collected from autopsies of the men, and they were thus deliberately left to degenerate under the ravages of tertiary syphilis—which can include tumors, heart disease, paralysis, blindness, insanity, and death. “As I see it,” one of the doctors involved explained, “we have no further interest in these patients until they die.”

Using Human Beings as Laboratory Animals
The true nature of the experiment had to be kept from the subjects to ensure their cooperation. The sharecroppers' grossly disadvantaged lot in life made them easy to manipulate. Pleased at the prospect of free medical care—almost none of them had ever seen a doctor before—these unsophisticated and trusting men became the pawns in what James Jones, author of the excellent history on the subject, Bad Blood, identified as “the longest nontherapeutic experiment on human beings in medical history.”

The study was meant to discover how syphilis affected blacks as opposed to whites—the theory being that whites experienced more neurological complications from syphilis whereas blacks were more susceptible to cardiovascular damage. How this knowledge would have changed clinical treatment of syphilis is uncertain. Although the PHS touted the study as one of great scientific merit, from the outset its actual benefits were hazy. It took almost forty years before someone involved in the study took a hard and honest look at the end results, reporting that “nothing learned will prevent, find, or cure a single case of infectious syphilis or bring us closer to our basic mission of controlling venereal disease in the United States.” When the experiment was brought to the attention of the media in 1972, news anchor Harry Reasoner described it as an experiment that “used human beings as laboratory animals in a long and inefficient study of how long it takes syphilis to kill someone.”

A Heavy Price in the Name of Bad Science
By the end of the experiment, 28 of the men had died directly of syphilis, 100 were dead of related complications, 40 of their wives had been infected, and 19 of their children had been born with congenital syphilis. How had these men been induced to endure a fatal disease in the name of science? To persuade the community to support the experiment, one of the original doctors admitted it “was necessary to carry on this study under the guise of a demonstration and provide treatment.” At first, the men were prescribed the syphilis remedies of the day—bismuth, neoarsphenamine, and mercury—but in such small amounts that only 3 percent showed any improvement. These token doses of medicine were good public relations and did not interfere with the true aims of the study. Eventually, all syphilis treatment was replaced with “pink medicine”—aspirin. To ensure that the men would show up for a painful and potentially dangerous spinal tap, the PHS doctors misled them with a letter full of promotional hype: “Last Chance for Special Free Treatment.” The fact that autopsies would eventually be required was also concealed. As a doctor explained, “If the colored population becomes aware that accepting free hospital care means a post-mortem, every darky will leave Macon County…” Even the Surgeon General of the United States participated in enticing the men to remain in the experiment, sending them certificates of appreciation after 25 years in the study.

Following Doctors' Orders
It takes little imagination to ascribe racist attitudes to the white government officials who ran the experiment, but what can one make of the numerous African Americans who collaborated with them? The experiment's name comes from the Tuskegee Institute, the black university founded by Booker T. Washington. Its affiliated hospital lent the PHS its medical facilities for the study, and other predominantly black institutions as well as local black doctors also participated. A black nurse, Eunice Rivers, was a central figure in the experiment for most of its forty years. The promise of recognition by a prestigious government agency may have obscured the troubling aspects of the study for some. A Tuskegee doctor, for example, praised “the educational advantages offered our interns and nurses as well as the added standing it will give the hospital.” Nurse Rivers explained her role as one of passive obedience: “we were taught that we never diagnosed, we never prescribed; we followed the doctor's instructions!” It is clear that the men in the experiment trusted her and that she sincerely cared about their well-being, but her unquestioning submission to authority eclipsed her moral judgment. Even after the experiment was exposed to public scrutiny, she genuinely felt nothing ethical had been amiss.

One of the most chilling aspects of the experiment was how zealously the PHS kept these men from receiving treatment. When several nationwide campaigns to eradicate venereal disease came to Macon County, the men were prevented from participating. Even when penicillin was discovered in the 1940s—the first real cure for syphilis—the Tuskegee men were deliberately denied the medication. During World War II, 250 of the men registered for the draft and were consequently ordered to get treatment for syphilis, only to have the PHS exempt them. Pleased at their success, the PHS representative announced: “So far, we are keeping the known positive patients from getting treatment.” The experiment continued in spite of the Henderson Act (1943), a public health law requiring testing and treatment for venereal disease, and in spite of the World Health Organization's Declaration of Helsinki (1964), which specified that “informed consent” was needed for experiment involving human beings.

Blowing the Whistle
The story finally broke in the Washington Star on July 25, 1972, in an article by Jean Heller of the Associated Press. Her source was Peter Buxtun, a former PHS venereal disease interviewer and one of the few whistle blowers over the years. The PHS, however, remained unrepentant, claiming the men had been “volunteers” and “were always happy to see the doctors,” and an Alabama state health officer who had been involved claimed “somebody is trying to make a mountain out of a molehill.”

Under the glare of publicity, the government ended their experiment, and for the first time provided the men with effective medical treatment for syphilis. Fred Gray, a lawyer who had previously defended Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King, filed a class action suit that provided a $10 million out-of-court settlement for the men and their families. Gray, however, named only whites and white organizations in the suit, portraying Tuskegee as a black and white case when it was in fact more complex than that—black doctors and institutions had been involved from beginning to end.

The PHS did not accept the media's comparison of Tuskegee with the appalling experiments performed by Nazi doctors on their Jewish victims during World War II. Yet in addition to the medical and racist parallels, the PHS offered the same morally bankrupt defense offered at the Nuremberg trials: they claimed they were just carrying out orders, mere cogs in the wheel of the PHS bureaucracy, exempt from personal responsibility.

The study's other justification—for the greater good of science—is equally spurious. Scientific protocol had been shoddy from the start. Since the men had in fact received some medication for syphilis in the beginning of the study, however inadequate, it thereby corrupted the outcome of a study of “untreated syphilis.”

In 1990, a survey found that 10 percent of African Americans believed that the U.S. government created AIDS as a plot to exterminate blacks, and another 20 percent could not rule out the possibility that this might be true. As preposterous and paranoid as this may sound, at one time the Tuskegee experiment must have seemed equally farfetched. Who could imagine the government, all the way up to the Surgeon General of the United States, deliberately allowing a group of its citizens to die from a terrible disease for the sake of an ill-conceived experiment? In light of this and many other shameful episodes in our history, African Americans' widespread mistrust of the government and white society in general should not be a surprise to anyone.

http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2002/How-To-Start-A-WarMay02.htm

"...1846: The Mexican-American War

CONTEXT After Mexico’s revolution in 1821, Americans demanded about $3,000,000 in compensation for their losses.1 Mexico abolished slavery in 1829 and then prohibited further U.S. immigration into Texas, a Mexican state. In 1835, Mexico tried to enforce its authority over Texas. Texans, rallying under the slogan "Remember the Alamo!”, drove Mexican troops out of Texas and proclaimed independence. For nine years, many Texans lobbied for US annexation. This was delayed by northerners who opposed adding more slave territories to the US and feared a war with Mexico.

In 1844, Democratic presidential candidate, James Polk, declared support for annexing Texas and won with the thinnest margin ever. The following year, Texas was annexed and Mexico broke off diplomatic relations with the US. Polk sent John Slidell to Mexico offering $25 million for New Mexico, California and an agreement accepting the Rio Grande boundary. Mexican government officials refused to meet the envoy.

PRETEXT John Stockwell, a Texan who led the CIA’s covert 1970s war in Angola, summed up the start of Mexican American war by saying “they offered two dollars-a-head to every soldier who would enlist. They didn't get enough takers, so they offered a hundred acres to anyone who would be a veteran of that war. They still didn't get enough takers, so [General] Zachary Taylor was sent down to parade up and down the border -- the disputed border -- until the Mexicans fired on him.... And the nation rose up, and we fought the war.”

President Polk hoped that sending General Taylor’s 3,500 soldiers into Mexico territory, would provoke an attack against US troops. “On May 8, 1846, Polk met with his Cabinet at the White House and told them that if the Mexican army attacked the U.S. forces, he was going to send a message to Congress asking for a declaration of war. It was decided that war should be declared in three days even if there was no attack.”

When news of the skirmish arrived, Polk sent a message to Congress on May 11: “Mexico has passed the boundary of the U.S. and shed American blood on American soil.” Two days later Congress declared war on Mexico.

RESPONSE Newspapers helped the push for war with headlines like: “‘Mexicans Killing our Boys in Texas.’

With public support secured, U.S. forces occupied New Mexico and California. US troops fought battles across Mexico and stormed their capital. A new more US-friendly government quickly emerged. It signed over California and New Mexico for $15 million and recognized the Rio Grande as their border with the US state of Texas.

General Taylor became an American war hero and he rode his victory straight into the White House by succeeding Polk as president in 1849.

REAL REASONS The US secured over 500,000 square miles from Mexico, including Texas, Nevada, New Mexico, Arizona, California and parts of Colorado and Wyoming.

The war was a boon to US nationalism, it boosted popular support for a very weak president and added vast new territories to the US where slavery was allowed.


1898: The Spanish-American War

CONTEXT Cubans fought several wars to free themselves from Spanish colonial rule, including 1868-1878, 1879-1880 and 1895-1898.12 In 1898, Cubans were on the brink of finally winning their independence. The US government agreed to respect Cuba’s sovereignty and promised they would not step in.

"On January 24, [1898] on the pretext of protecting the life and safety of Mr. Lee, U.S. consul in Havana, and other U.S. citizens in the face of street disturbances provoked by Spanish extremists, the Maine battleship entered the bay of Havana.”

PRETEXT On February 15, 1898, a huge explosion sank the USS Maine killing 266 of its crew.

In 1975, an investigation led by US Admiral Hyman Rickover concluded that there was no evidence of any external explosion. The explosion was internal, probably caused by a coal dust explosion. Oddly, the ship's weapons and explosives were stored next to the coal bunker.

RESPONSE The Maine’s commander cautioned against assumptions of an enemy attack. The press denounced him for "refusing to see the obvious." The Atlantic Monthly said anyone thinking this was not a premeditated, Spanish act of war was "completely at defiance of the laws of probability."

Newspapers ran wild headlines like: “Spanish Cannibalism,” “Inhuman Torture,” “Amazon Warriors Fight For Rebels.” Guillermo Jimpnez Soler notes: “As would become its usual practice, U.S. intervention in the war was preceded by intensive press campaigns which incited jingoism, pandering to the most shameless tales and sensationalism and exacerbated cheap sentimentality. Joseph Pulitzer of The World and William Randolph Hearst from The Journal, the two largest U.S. papers... carried their rivalry to a paroxysm of inflaming public opinion with scandalous, provocative and imaginary stories designed to win acceptance of U.S. participation in the first of its holy wars beyond its maritime borders.”

US papers sent hundreds of reporters and photographers to cover the apparent Spanish attacks. Upon arrival, many were disappointed. Frederick Remington wrote to Hearst saying: “There is no war .... Request to be recalled.” Hearst’s now-famous cable replied: "Please remain. You furnish the pictures, I'll furnish the war." For weeks, The Journal dedicated more than eight pages per day to the explosion.

Through ceaseless repetition, a rallying cry for retaliation grew into a roar. “In the papers, on the streets and in…Congress. The slogan was "Remember the Maine! To hell with Spain."

With the US public and government safely onboard, the US set sail for war launching an era of ‘gunboat diplomacy.’ Anti-war sentiments were drowned out by the sea of cries for war. On April 25, 1898, the US Congress declared war on Spain.

REAL REASONS Within four months “the US replaced Spain as the colonial power in the Philippines, Guam and Puerto Rico, and devised a special status for Cuba. Never again would the US achieve so much…as in that ‘splendid little war,’ as…described at the time by John Hay, future secretary of state.”

Historian Howard Zinn has said that 1898 heralded “the most dramatic entrance onto the world scene of American military and economic power.… The war ushered in what Henry Luce later referred to as the American Century, which really meant a century of American domination...”
 kabiosile

Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 24
view profile
History
Conservative poisoning the well with labels like conspiracy theory.
Posted: 12/9/2006 10:10:50 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Excellent post! not many people know about northwoods. The other ones you posted I heard about the syphilis one before the Spanish American one I had not thanks !

Also lets not forget about the USS cole!

here is one of my favorite movies at the moment on such stuff have a look people you might learn something!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=786048453686176230&q=terror+storm&hl=en


 Redheadgidget

Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 25
Conservative poisoning the well with labels like conspiracy theory.
Posted: 12/9/2006 10:26:21 PM

The one about no WMD's in Iraq?
the one about bush lying to invade?
The one about foreign torture camps and innocent prisoners?
Murdered prisoners?


I can make 2 changes in the entire scenario above and it will be applicable to any administration which was in office during any conflict/war.

1. Change WMD to simply weapons and/threat .... replace Iraq with Japan, Germany, Korea, etc. etc. and dating wayy back even to America - re' the Civil War. Covers Repub and Democ. run Presidency/Congress.

2. Change Bush to Kennedy and you have covered both Repub and Democ.

As for torture camps, innocent prisoners, murdered prisoners... that is the case with every single conflict/war. And, to say that what's going on now with Iraq is any different, demonstrates a lack of knowing history.
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