| The Dark Ages....
Posted: 1/5/2006 6:40:49 AM | | What factors do you feel caused the Dark Ages..and do you think that Christianity had anything to do with shortening or lengthening this period of ignorance run rampant and intolerance given full control..????? | |
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| The Dark Ages....
Posted: 1/5/2006 8:35:59 AM | "What factors do you feel caused the Dark Ages.."
The fall of the Roman Empire ....
and do you think that Christianity had anything to do with shortening or lengthening this period of ignorance run rampant and intolerance given full control..?????
Nope ...when did the common man of that era have the time or inclination to obtain literacy (reason it was dubbed the "Dark Ages" )? Constant warfare made it almost impossible for them to cultivate their farms for nourishment let alone the time for reading and writing. If anything, Christianity may have given them a bit of hope for "better things to come" rather than a shortening or lengthening of the "rampant ignorance and intolerance" ... | |
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| The Dark Ages....
Posted: 1/5/2006 3:02:36 PM | Hhhmm Essaress...
Didn't the Church try to suppress any and all books/knowledge that was not the bible? And there was a concentrated effort to wipe out any vestiges of the older religions/learning?
And the only art work that was produced were scenes out of the bible?
And, where once there was a considerable amount of attention given to discussing philosophy (greeks and romans), mathematics, astronomy and medicine, the only discussion in the middle ages centered around the bible?
And scientific theories like the earth revolving around the sun were branded as heretic since it disagreed with the bible?
And that the only knowledge/learning to the laypeople came from the priests who instructed from on high to only discuss the bible and Christian learning?
Mmm...
Yup...I would have to say the Church played a role in the Dark Ages. | |
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| The Dark Ages....
Posted: 1/5/2006 3:24:30 PM |
I would have to say the Church played a role in the Dark Ages.
So what was the rest of the world that was not under the control of the church doing during this time??? | |
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| The Dark Ages....
Posted: 1/5/2006 3:42:43 PM | "So what was the rest of the world that was not under the control of the church doing during this time???"
Why are you asking??? | |
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| The Dark Ages....
Posted: 1/5/2006 3:52:28 PM | ....What was happening in the rest of the world?
The rise of Islam and the great discoveries in math and science by Islamic Scholars.
The invasion of the British Isles by the Saxons
The rise and fall of the Aztec, Inca and Mayan empires in S.A. (and their contributions to Astronomy - especially the Mayans.
Buddhsim spread throughout Asia.
....Just to name a few happenings. | |
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| The Dark Ages....
Posted: 1/5/2006 4:00:56 PM | | The Dark Ages were primarily caused by the fall of the Roman Empire. I dont think Christianity contributed to it but I think the Dark Ages contributed to the rise of Christianity. | |
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| The Dark Ages....
Posted: 1/5/2006 4:37:30 PM | I was just reading an accounting (online) that stated that some felt that it was the injection of Christianity into Roman Culture that was a contribuiting factor...I am not saying this... I am saying I read this... I dont think very many will object to my saying that it is a certainity that at least from Constantine forward, Christianity certainly did play a role in just about all historical Western European happenings...
But my question was about the events earlier than Constantine and leading up to him...that is about seven hundred years or so from the time of Jesus... and it seems to be ...Dark... | |
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| The Dark Ages....
Posted: 1/5/2006 4:42:30 PM | | The Romans certainly brought a lot of discipline into the world and it left when they did. It was a turbulent time and very chaotic asd new power bases were made. It wasnt dark in a spiritual way but its simply dark in a nothing recorded way. In my view its archaeologically one of the more interesting periods .. Roman Britain is too known .. and as it gets to 1066 everything is recorded. The Daek Ages is the time of Arthur ... | |
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| The Dark Ages....
Posted: 1/5/2006 5:05:26 PM | Whoa...many assumptions here.
Did Christianity cause the end of the Roman Empire? I have to go with a nope on this one. The Roman Empire fell for a variety of reasons, but I consider the main one to be the decline of the quality of the Legions and the loss of military superiority when Roman tactics were copied by non Romans. I have a hard time blaming this on Christianity.
Secondly, Christianity in the "Dark Ages" was essentially the last western bastion of literacy, it was a source of social cohesion, common intrest, and co operation in a very troubled time. In fact I would go as far as to say that without the cohesiveness provided by Christianity Europe would be an Islamic continent ( Charles Martel at Poitiers essentially saved Europe). Also, while Christianity was largfely unsucessful at restraining the constant warfare that defines that era, the Church worked hard to restrain the worst excesses of Christian on Christian warfare with an elaborate series of holy days, rules of war and other efforts. | |
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| The Dark Ages....
Posted: 1/5/2006 5:41:41 PM | | Sooo , are you contending that it was Christianity that kept the period as short in duration as it was?? Or that it was a mitigating influence in other ways that helped restore "civilization"...or what exactly??? | |
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| The Dark Ages....
Posted: 1/5/2006 6:20:06 PM | OK, using the definition of Dark Ages as from the fall of the western Roman Empire, till the Renaissance.
Things that Christianity did to mitigate the "darkness" included...
The church was for all intents and purposes the entire education system and it almost singlehandedly kept literacy alive in Western Europe. Universities that the Church started are still functioning. This alone is an enormous credit to the Church.
Christianity also provided a sense of European polity that allowed radically different European tribal groups to unite for European goals, namely stopping Europe from being overrun by muslims, then orchestrating the Reconquista of the Iberian Peninsula. In this way it provided a long term set of goals and strategy. | |
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| The Dark Ages....
Posted: 1/5/2006 6:36:12 PM | | Christianity did more to lengthen the Dark Ages than anything else... much has already expressed I think. I don't have the rest of my life (even if I live another 30 years) to argue about that. | |
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| The Dark Ages....
Posted: 1/5/2006 6:46:27 PM | | How about some facts thrown in with the conjecture??? | |
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| The Dark Ages....
Posted: 1/5/2006 6:54:20 PM | | ^^^Research on the Holy Wars throughout history, if you are so inclined, I really don't have the time to go over it. | |
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| The Dark Ages....
Posted: 1/5/2006 7:00:57 PM | ^^^ why waste your time posting then?? from wikidpedia :-
" In Britain and the United States, "Dark Ages" has occasionally been used by professionals, with severe qualification, as a term of periodization. This usage is intended as non-judgmental and simply means the relative lack of written record, "silent" as much as "dark." | |
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| The Dark Ages....
Posted: 1/5/2006 7:29:45 PM | ^^^huh!
"Dark Ages": Period of European history between 500 and 1000 AD. Whatever! | |
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| The Dark Ages....
Posted: 1/5/2006 7:30:34 PM | | Good point nevercanezzer ,...I have also read this assessment... I think it was some guy in the 11th or 12 th century that first refered to this period as the dark ages... I wonder if he was alluding to this very point...lack of records... | |
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| The Dark Ages....
Posted: 1/5/2006 9:35:34 PM | Not only did religion not cause the “Dark Ages”; nothing else did either—the story that after the “fall” of Rome a long dark night of ignorance and superstition settled over Europe is as fictional as the Columbus story. In fact this was an era of profound and rapid technological progress. The Scientific Revolution of the sixteenth century was the result of [Christian scholarship] starting in the eleventh century.
Historians do most of their work with written sources, and few know much about horses. Many of the written sources from the ‘Dark Ages’ are written in rather poor Latin, so poor Latin must equal intellectual darkness. It was not until 1931 that a retired French cavalry officer—who did understand horses—revealed the technological progress that occurred during the period. Roman and Saracen cavalry rode without stirrups and often bareback, but the Europeans invented the stirrup and pommelled saddle which, combined with a very long lance and full body armour, proved an irresistible force in battle. Further technical progress in harnessing and iron horseshoes led not only to greater prowess in battle but also to a doubling of ploughing effort in the fields.
And scientific theories like the earth revolving around the sun were branded as heretic since it disagreed with the bible?
Every educated person of the time, including Roman Catholic prelates, knew the earth was round. For more than three centuries it was the primary polemical device used in the atheist attack on faith. From Thomas Hobbes through Carl Sagan and Richard Dawkins, false claims about religion and science have been used as weapons in the battle to “free” the human mind from the “fetters of faith”. Scientific theories like the earth revolving around the sun didn’t disagree with the bible. For example:
Earth is a sphere:
Isaiah 40:22 “He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth,
and its people are like grasshoppers.
He stretches out the heavens like a canopy,
and spreads them out like a tent to live in.”
Earth is suspended in space:
Job 26:7 “He spreads out the northern skies over empty space;
he suspends the earth over nothing.”
Both the book of Isaiah and Job were written before Christianity.
If you read the book How Monotheism Led to Reformations, Science, Witch-hunts and the End of Slavery by Rodney Stark it will clarify things for you. | |
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| The Dark Ages....
Posted: 1/5/2006 11:24:43 PM |
"Dark Ages": Period of European history between 500 and 1000 AD.
In fact this was an era of profound and rapid technological progress. The Scientific Revolution of the sixteenth century was the result of [Christian scholarship] starting in the eleventh century.
anyone else notice that the eleventh century seems to be distinctly AFTER the quoted "Dark Ages"?
Furthermore, inventing saddles, horseshoes, and lances over the span of 500 years of human history is hardly a period of immense technological advancement. | |
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| The Dark Ages....
Posted: 1/6/2006 4:06:54 AM | " In Britain and the United States, "Dark Ages" has occasionally been used by professionals, with severe qualification, as a term of periodization. This usage is intended as non-judgmental and simply means the relative lack of written record, "silent" as much as "dark."
I have little knowledge of the Dark Ages period in the USA. I maintain it was akin to most of Europe.
Also these so called 'professionals with sever qualifications' were probably religious fanatics. What makes anyone think there is less truth in this period of history than that in the Bible, which of course is far older?
Another point "Dark" does not specifically apply to "secret" it also means: black, cheerless, deep, dismal, foul, hellish, ignorant and mystic... doesn't that sound a tad bit like much of the Bible? | |
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| The Dark Ages....
Posted: 1/6/2006 6:16:13 AM | Another point "Dark" does not specifically apply to "secret" it also means: black, cheerless, deep, dismal, foul, hellish, ignorant and mystic... doesn't that sound a tad bit like much of the Bible?
To those who cannot "see the light" of wisdom provided by Biblical writings I suppose it would. The definition provided of "dark" as cheerless, dismal, foul, hellish pretty well sums up a period of constant and chaotic warfare in the repositioning of "governmental" powers after the rule of Rome had ended. In addition, the term "Dark Ages" was applied by an Italian referring to the lack of literary "acheivement" not by Websters dictionary. | |
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| The Dark Ages....
Posted: 1/6/2006 8:01:40 AM |
anyone else notice that the eleventh century seems to be distinctly AFTER the quoted "Dark Ages"?
Furthermore, inventing saddles, horseshoes, and lances over the span of 500 years of human history is hardly a period of immense technological advancement.
If you had noticed I wrote "The Scientific Revolution" and then about "Christian scholarship"
I mentioned the "dark ages" in relation to false assumption of progress within that era with regards to technological progress, and the horses was one example of
the "Dark Ages" being a Myth.
Read the book as I said. | |
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| The Dark Ages....
Posted: 1/6/2006 10:04:23 AM | "To those who cannot "see the light" of wisdom provided by Biblical writings I suppose it would."
And to those who don't see the wood for trees in the deceptive jungle of the Bible also.  | |
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