| men are from mars......
Posted: 2/9/2006 4:13:24 AM | i have just been trawling through the threads while i should be doing concrete calculations..... i know, its a close call but the threads won it because i have a headache....lol
anyway, among all of the threads, there is still the equality thing bubbling away under the surface. at the risk of bringing down the wrath of the worlds entire female population on my head, i thought i would ask you guys..... at what point do you gals think the equality card is overplayed? the reason i ask this is because of some things i have read: -
1) women want their men to be romantic with them but dont feel any obligation to be romantic themselves.
2) they think its the guy that has to make the effort and feel no inclination to making an effort themselves.
i am sure that there a lot of guys out there that feel as frustrated by the whole scenario as i do; where is the equality line? why are women exempt from being equal when the romancing starts? WHAT IS IN IT FOR US?????????
oh, and i t was my birthday yesterday.... great time spent with my little ones, we had a tea party with jelly and little sandwiches and games and stuff.... i slept really well last night...lol | |
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7times
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Joined: 10/27/2005
Msg: 3 | |
| men are from mars......
Posted: 2/9/2006 4:19:48 AM | its cut and dry
the women have a steel door that us men want into, there is no key for opening it up so it takes a little imagination and effort on our part | |
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| men are from mars......
Posted: 2/9/2006 4:26:54 AM |
women want their men to be romantic with them but dont feel any obligation to be romantic themselves.
I have found quite the opposite to be true. I am a hopeless romantic, I like alot of giving and receiving alot of affection, kissing, hugging, holding hands. Send little ecards just to let someone know I am thinking about them. Leave little notes in a lunch box just to cheer up their day. But I have never had that kind of attention returned to me.  | |
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| men are from mars......
Posted: 2/9/2006 4:27:36 AM | yes, i agree with you on this point 7 but clearly, in this respect women have definately been a bit duter than we give them credit for..... we all know they crave the attention that we as men give them but they give the impression that they can take it or leave it which drives us on to make the effort even more..... we have been collectively suckered,......
when the big gender identity thing started to make the huge shifts that we had in the 80s, to a great degree men lost their identity; we were in the past always the stronger sex, bread winners, hunter gatherers, etc.... now women can do anything they want to except piss standing up and some are evn trying with some success to do that.. this effectively renders the entire male population surplus to their requirements. we are only in the game because they (women) tolerate us being there..... we have become the faithful chocolate labrador...lol
i need a beer......lol | |
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| men are from mars......
Posted: 2/9/2006 4:30:29 AM | I have found quite the opposite to be true. I am a hopeless romantic, I like alot of giving and receiving alot of affection, kissing, hugging, holding hands. Send little ecards just to let someone know I am thinking about them. Leave little notes in a lunch box just to cheer up their day. But I have never had that kind of attention returned to me.
hi donut.... i hear this a lot.... it seems that there is a whole planet full of romantic chicks with loser partners and a whole planet full of really romantic guys with unappreciative women.... we need to take a step back and ask... what is wrong with this picture???????
lol
say.... you wanna move in with me????? i cant find a romantic tactile gf for love nor money.....lol | |
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7times
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Joined: 10/27/2005
Msg: 7 | |
| men are from mars......
Posted: 2/9/2006 4:33:00 AM | 
as they say men are hunters, yes this is true but it doesn't mean all know how.. Its not a matter of standing against a tree waiting. If you want to be good at it and successful it takes the ability of adapting, overcoming obstacles and the keen eye of reading tracks | |
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| men are from mars......
Posted: 2/9/2006 4:40:27 AM | I'm not sure what question you're really wanting answered! Are you wanting women to be more "aggressive" in pursuing you? (I thought most men like a challenge!) I don't want to stereotype and generalize, so I can only speak for myself and based on my own observations. Sorry things suck in England! (or ... um ... ooops ... not suck -- pun was not originally intended THAT way!) About issue #1: women "don't feel any obligation to be romantic themselves" --- HUH? First, the word "obligation" has a negative connotation, dude! Kind of makes it sound like a chore, instead of a pleasurable experience. Secondly, not all of us fine ladies are passive after being romanced, courted, so maybe you're picking out prudes, need to figure out a more effective strategy or ??? heck if I know! About #2 (guys making the effort): Call me old fashioned, but I like to be courted. Got socialized that way. Get past the early stages and oooooh ... the rewards are so, so, so sweet! And, you ask, "What is in it for us?" Um ... I don't know if I want to go there -- answering that question! (The answer seems so obvious, to me.) Anyway, belated Happy Birthday to ya!
Msg. #2 sounds so bitter. Hope you get over it all! Did you come from Mother Earth?
About love notes: I'm notorious for leaving them in very unexpected places! Receiving them , especially handwritten ones, usually score bonus, bonus points! So, maybe you need to be more selective in who you write them to! (Just a guess. I dunno.)
Donut -- I'm a hopeless romantic, too. Sorry to read that your love was taken for granted! (I've been there, done that, too.) Love only those who love YOU!
Is "balance" perhaps a better word to use than "equality?" I'm also thinking of romance as more like a "dance," instead of "work." | |
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| men are from mars......
Posted: 2/9/2006 4:53:30 AM | hi ors...
i think i need to move to the states.... i think uk women, and i am also in danger of over generalising, are stuck in a bit of a transition period. they know what they want but dont have a clue about how to get it... if that makes any sense. i should point out that im not bitter, i am just frustated about the dating scene. it is encouraging to hear you use the word courting, i think the last time i heard that word was in 1982! lol. i am personally, a hopeless romantic and have been on the sharp end of some predatory women in the past. in the uk, once again generally speaking, a romantic guy is seen as prey to some women. romantic women on this side of the pond are few and far between. sure they all think they are romantic but in the end it all comes down to the same thing; what can i get out of this guy before i get bored with him and toss him aside..... whoops there i go again sounding bitter and twisted. im not bitter and twisted!!!!!!!! AARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH.
now i need another beer. and a lie down. lol | |
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| men are from mars......
Posted: 2/9/2006 5:00:43 AM | >>>>>>>women want their men to be romantic with them but dont feel any obligation to be romantic themselves >>>they think its the guy that has to make the effort and feel no inclination to making an effort themselves.<<<<<<
It's a two way street here. If both parties are committed to a relationship then I would think both would want to romance one another and not out of obligation, expectation or inclination but because they want to do it and show that they are committed to keeping their love alive. JMO
A. | |
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| men are from mars......
Posted: 2/9/2006 5:02:36 AM | | OP: I'm so sorry to hear about how you experience women where you live! (Maybe people in England are bitter because of the wet, cold weather!) I used to have a very close friend, who was from England. After witnessing how badly she treated several very nice guys (some whom most women here would give their eye and teeth for), I finally felt the need to give her some "loving, constructive criticism," so I think I have an idea about what you mean. I don't want to get into a cultural debate, because, like I said, I don't want to stereotype. However, we in the southern part of the United States are known for our "charm." (Maybe, because we, generally, have a warmer, sunnier, nicer climate --- ???) If you do decide to move here, I'd do some research first, preferably when you're sober! Good luck, and ... oh, feel free to drink one for me! | |
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| men are from mars......
Posted: 2/9/2006 5:06:38 AM | 6&7 .. I'm not much of a romantic but on the point of "pursuing" (and you did say you were thinking of the early stages of the relationship dance) .. I've become a disciple of the He's Just Not That Into You theology of love & dating. Personally I have no problem being the initiator, seducer ... but I'm convinced now that it's true that men (at least the men I'm attracted to) want to do the pursuing. Perhaps because it's in their primal nature to hunt, perhaps because there is a hardwired evaluation of women who are difficult to attain as being more valuable.
I'm also convinced that it's true that men have a very hard time telling you that they're just not that into you. So I could be asking and suggesting and getting passive soft signals back from some guy for a frustrating length of time. To avoid that I now just leave it with them (at least until it's very clear that there's mutual interest). The best way for me to know if a man is really interested in me is to have him call me/ask me out.
Once the mutual desire is established I accept 50% of the responsiblity for keeping love and interest in each other alive and well.
But yeah ... I've given myself over to what seems to be the reality that men chase and women choose. Only because they seem to want/need to do the chasing. Chase ... from the French "chasser" .. to hunt. Go figure. | |
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| men are from mars......
Posted: 2/9/2006 5:37:48 AM | Yippy! Since I'm a wo-man, I qualify to answer!
1) women want their men to be romantic with them but dont feel any obligation to be romantic themselves.
2) they think its the guy that has to make the effort and feel no inclination to making an effort themselves.
1. Wrong. While I will NEVER feel obligated to be/feel a lil romantic, I am utterly capable and WILL.
2. Wrong again. Though I have way too much of that "southern blood" in me, once I know a guy burns for me, he'll know how the funny girl feels. No doubting at all.
That said, each and every time I've ventured out into being even slightly "bold" and making my own sort of moves, it went horribly. I'm sticking with what feels right for me. If a guy I'm burning for doesn't make any moves my way, the fact that I didn't make any either just doesn't make a damn, no? | |
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| men are from mars......
Posted: 2/9/2006 7:15:58 AM | ^^^ You're agreeing with him on #1, FWIW.
There is a kind of nostalgia for romance as it is shown in movies, but that comes from a time when men were in charge of things, which they aren't any more. Women were treated with deference to their being weaker and more delicate, in the movies at least. It has translated into being treated as if they are special. But today if you want to treat someone like they are special and you treat them like they are weak, it doesn't go over well. Chairs usually have glides now and women are strong enough to pull out their own chair. Doors are easy to open. Although I once had a car where the passenger side door stuck a lot, so you had to kick it open from the inside. Maybe I was being romantic without realizing it. | |
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| men are from mars......
Posted: 2/9/2006 7:31:04 AM | 1) women want their men to be romantic with them but dont feel any obligation to be romantic themselves.
2) they think its the guy that has to make the effort and feel no inclination to making an effort themselves.
^^^
Whateva! I must be special
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| men are from mars......
Posted: 2/9/2006 8:00:09 AM | Yeah I can kick my own car door open.
You know what I'm thinking? For me anyway sex is still something very valuable that I don't give away easily. And I think that -- in the majority of cases -- women still assign a higher value to that kind of intimacy than men do (I know that's changing as well). So maybe what I really need to see is some serious effort and sustained interest from someone I'm ultimately going to sleep with. Like .. show me you really value me before I trust you with this thing.
So not so much ... make me feel special and I'll reward you with my favours (fiddle dee dee) ... but rather trust you with them. So yeah, in my life that's why a man is going to have to work harder to get in the door. Once he's there and wants to stay awhile, I'll meet him half way on all things romantic. | |
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| men are from mars......
Posted: 2/9/2006 8:19:14 AM | | The idea of sex being what one wants and the other gives as a reward is barfy to me. Sex is fun both ways or it's no good. | |
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| men are from mars......
Posted: 2/9/2006 8:27:12 AM | I didn't say women didn't want sex. I'm saying that on average women want sex as a 1 to 1 ratio. Most men are happy with 1 to many. So a woman wants to see that a man is willing to proceed on a 1 to 1 before buying in.
I want sex. I want it with someone who's going to be there for pancakes the next morning. | |
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| men are from mars......
Posted: 2/9/2006 8:34:10 AM | | indigo---working for it makes the reward that much sweeter--who wants something for nothing? I'v found most times that equates to a cheap product soon broken | |
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Kaltes
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Joined: 12/19/2005
Msg: 24 | |
| men are from mars......
Posted: 2/9/2006 8:41:21 AM | First off...and I will rant....where the heck are these romantic men that you are referring to? Heck, I do not consider the only pre-requisite for a man to be romantic as holding the door and chair for me, walking me to my car, etc. All the men I know, including my sons, do that for me. Those are called manners. I have only dated one truely romantic man in my life; he was French. Enough said.
Romance is dead and I believe that men are the ones that have killed it. Men have tarnished women to the point where we feel like we will destroy the relationship if we send cute e-cards or leave notes or make special dinners (a la candles, music, wine). Men think that it is part of some conspiracy to trap them...."I had to dump her because she was WAY too much in to me"....Oh gawd!....I am already getting hives because of stress for Valentines Day. 
Rant over....disclaimer: I am sorry if I have offended anyone in this posting.  | |
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| men are from mars......
Posted: 2/9/2006 8:45:23 AM |
1) women want their men to be romantic with them but dont feel any obligation to be romantic themselves.
2) they think its the guy that has to make the effort and feel no inclination to making an effort themselves.
huh???
this is why there is a book men are from mars, and women are from venus.
when you take the game out of the game there is nothing left to play.
WHAT IS IN IT FOR US?????????
again, huh???
when I see something like this I can only think the poor soul does not understand. | |
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