| History-Kerma to Kemet,Badaria to Sumeria,Harappa and beyond.
Posted: 2/21/2006 3:43:08 AM | I'd like to open this thread to OPENLY discuss HISTORY. Lets begin in with the topic of Badaria and Kerma.
Has anyone heard of them? It is now believed to have been the 1st civilization may have been that of Kerma. Although the actual Kingdom of Kerma wasn't established until 3-2,500BC the civilization could go back as far as 7,500 BC! Likewise,Badaria or the Badarian civilization is called predynastic pre Naqada I Kemet(Egypt). Art in the area and that of Tassili N'Ajjer indicates that artistic cultures where there before 7,000BC! The 1st system of writing comes from the tomb of King Scorpion oddly enough. This evidence predates "Sumerian" Cunniform by a few hundred years. It also shows the direct link to protophonecian writing systems. The question of Kerma/Badaria/predynastic Kemet being so close in proximity and likeness then becomes; did King Scorpian himself start the 1st system of writing or did he predate him? Was it a continuation of a system used in neighboring Kerma and Badaria yet uncovered by archeologist?
It now seems increasingly clear that civilization began in Africa and spread outward. Now if a writing system is a necessary component of civilization Badaria would out rank Kerma in that there has been DISCOVERED/uncovered obvious evidence of a system of writing. Kerma would seem to have all other aspects but yet to have been uncovered is evidence of a system of writing.
Speaking of civilization, lets attempt to confine our discussion to cultures that had these things:
1)Sedentism,great increase in the size of the largest settlements
2)centralized rule,the institution of tribute or taxation and the central accumulation of capital
3)monumental public works and infrastructure
4)development of naturalistic representational arts
5)the art of written communication
6)the development of exact and predictive sciences (geometry, arithmetic and astronomy)
7)expansion of foreign trade with developed economic institutions
8)craft specialization
9) pastorialsim
10)Social stratification,the state, or a structure of society which defines residence, and is independent of kinship
With all of these characteristics of civilization in mind, civilization has been uncovered as far back as at LEAST 3,500 BC with many indicators of 2,000 years BEFORE that. Yes, the Scorpian King is more than just a movie based on fiction.
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| History-Kerma to Kemet,Badaria to Sumeria,Harappa and beyond.
Posted: 3/1/2007 9:21:47 AM | You can lecture to us.. Or you can pose questions or concepts and ask for feedback.
Where exactly were Baderia and Kerma located, OP? What is the evidence for the attributes you mention - got a couple of websites we can visit to learn more?
You can't engage folks in conversation on an arcane subtopic of history. | |
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| History-Kerma to Kemet,Badaria to Sumeria,Harappa and beyond.
Posted: 3/2/2007 2:15:42 PM | Where exactly were Baderia and Kerma located, OP? What is the evidence for the attributes you mention - got a couple of websites we can visit to learn more?
All are found in Nubia;
Badaria-lower nile, first identified in the region of Badari(Al Badari) near Sohag, south to the Waldi Halfa area.http://www.homestead.com/wysinger/badarians.html
Kerma-Again southern Nile valley-Sudan The eventual capital was just south of the 3rd cateract
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4996337647601418274
http://www.impressions-ba.com/features.php?id_feature=10352
http://web.cocc.edu/cagatucci/classes/hum211/timelines/htimeline.htm
http://www.homestead.com/wysinger/mapofnubia.html
Here is a good place to begin a study of King Scorpion/The REAL Scorpion King!
http://www.providencepictures.com/press-history-dowd.html
http://www.archaeology.org/0205/reviews/scorpion.html
FWI-----Kemet is the name Egyptians called themselves! Its the "real" name of ancient Egypt | |
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| History-Kerma to Kemet,Badaria to Sumeria,Harappa and beyond.
Posted: 7/17/2007 9:21:49 PM |
You can't engage folks in conversation on an arcane subtopic of history Why not? I offered the topic as a discussion. I asked a question and have provided links to articles and websites that deal with the subject matter. I've both informed(er in your terms perhaps lectured  and posed questions). | |
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| History-Kerma to Kemet,Badaria to Sumeria,Harappa and beyond.
Posted: 7/18/2007 11:22:37 AM | There is a lot of evidence that the Great Sphinx is actually much older than the Egypt of the Pharaohs we know.
I have heard of sculptures being found in the middle of the Sahara desert which are being called pre-Egyptian.
We know from radar images taken from the space shuttle that the Sahara desert was once lush forest land with rivers.
G. I. Gurdjieff talks of once having an ancient map of " pre-sand " Egypt. | |
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| History-Kerma to Kemet,Badaria to Sumeria,Harappa and beyond.
Posted: 7/18/2007 12:29:49 PM | First of all, ignore the comment regarding lectures. I guess for that individual, forums are meant to be only in the question and answer format, instead of being also used to introduce new ideas.
Secondly - I think you list of what constitutes civilization is deeply flawed in that its really outdated. Archaeology has come so much further than that - especially since we now know of highly advanced civilizations that didn't even have half of the "requirements".
Thirdly, while Homo sapiens did come out of africa, civilzation evolved in several areas in addition to egypt - most notably china.
Fourthly, I actually know a little bit about Badaria and Kerma, and I would say that while a "scorpion king" figure probably did exist, he was probably just a local strong man vs a king in the concept that we have today. | |
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| History-Kerma to Kemet,Badaria to Sumeria,Harappa and beyond.
Posted: 7/27/2007 12:22:31 PM |
I have heard of sculptures being found in the middle of the Sahara desert which are being called pre-Egyptian. Correct There are many. Of course, the Egyptians refered to their own nation as Kemet. Baderia(4500-3800 BC) is pre Kemetian (pre Egyptian).
We know from radar images taken from the space shuttle that the Sahara desert was once lush forest land with rivers. This is fact as far as their supposition from the readings of the images.
G. I. Gurdjieff talks of once having an ancient map of " pre-sand " Egypt. He was an interesting character. I doubt however if the mystic/teacher had more than a idle "claim" or some "map" aquired from a group of gypsies.
especially since we now know of highly advanced civilizations that didn't even have half of the "requirements I would say not having 5 of the outlined requirements would relagate a supposed "civilization" a complex culture. There is a huge difference between a culture that did NOT meet 5 of the the civilization requirements and 1in which the evidence is simply unclear as oppose to a culture that simply never developed 5 of those requirements. Can you name ANY civilization acclaimed as such that met less than 5 of those requirements?
I actually know a little bit about Badaria and Kerma, and I would say that while a "scorpion king" figure probably did exist, he was probably just a local strong man vs a king in the concept that we have today. By strong do you mean as in Samson? Or as in Warlord/Sadaam? Can you support this claim? ALL of the evidence I've read and seen is VERY clear as to his status as his macehead would signify. He is a ruler, whether king or ruling cheiftan. | |
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