| Crime and Punishment
Posted: 2/24/2006 12:12:17 PM | | how true, the punnishment rarelly seems to fit the crime, i also think if you get a sentance, you should have to serve the whole sentance and not only half due to good behaviour, this to me makes no sense. life should mean life in my book | |
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| Crime and Punishment
Posted: 2/24/2006 12:24:20 PM | | in cases like this were the person has murdered and is caught red handed, i think a death sentance is pretty much deserved.The only catch being they should die as their victims did and whilst on death row should be forced to watch hours of looped footage of similar deaths,so when they go to die they are pyshcologically broken and emotional wrecks.Basic diets to keep them alive in thier stinking effluent ridden cells would be just that,bread and water with the occasional beating from the guards.Then televise the execution nationwide as a message to other would be killers/criminals. | |
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| Crime and Punishment
Posted: 2/24/2006 1:58:02 PM | kid round our way got two years for giving a bloke brain damage after a kicking.personally if you want to befit these sort of crimes he should of been made a warder of this fella for the rest of his life,let him care for the poor bloke.after all this man has got a life sentence,the young lad will be out in 9 months.a family i know who know the young lads family told of him having previous(thats why he was picked up)related crimes,what the **** happened to that three strikes and your out....all they do is grass someone else up and get off....makes you so angry | |
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| Crime and Punishment
Posted: 2/24/2006 4:30:41 PM | CRIME. The justice system thinks that it is more of a punishment to keep you out of a prison than it is to keep you in....  | |
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hagey
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Joined: 11/8/2005
Msg: 7 | |
| Crime and Punishment
Posted: 2/25/2006 7:37:20 AM | | THIS COUNTRY IS TO SOFT,RE-INSTATE THE DEATH PENALTY AND MAKE IT PUBLIC.SEND YOUNGER EEJITS INTO THE ARMY. | |
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| Crime and Punishment
Posted: 2/25/2006 8:49:49 AM | Well I got caught doing 123mph up near Humberside, was on the motorway on an early clear summer morning, no other cars on the road except for the unmarked police car I overtook..oops. My cars limited to 155mph so is more than safe at the speed I was doing and wasn't doing anything dangerous in my eyes. I went to court and got 9 points and a £350 fine, was lucky to escape a ban due to needing to be able to drive for my business.
That evening I got home and read the local paper, a man had been caught driving with no tax, MOT or insurance and got 6 points and a £150 fine.
Equal justice, I think not. | |
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| Crime and Punishment
Posted: 2/25/2006 9:04:00 AM | my best mates stepdad was brutally beaten to death in his local pub, just because the scum that did it didnt like the look of a guy he was drinking with, 8 people against 2, it was caught on cctv although its unclear who did what but what is clear is that they all had a hand in his death, it went to trial
the outcome.............6 aquitted 2 sentanced to 12 years, theyll probably be out in 6
justice?................most definatelly not | |
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| Crime and Punishment
Posted: 6/29/2008 8:28:25 AM | I agree this country is far too soft.
Was in court this week with my son who was stabbed outside an ice skating rink by a gang. Three months earlier he'd stopped a fight between an 18yr old who was beating up a 12 yr old. He walked past a group of kids going back to the bus stop and heard, "That's the kid from the bus". Next thing you know he was surrounded by about 12 youths. One pulled out a knife and told him he was going to slit his throat, the other pulled out a screwdriver and stabbed him in the chest with it. Luckily it didn't puncture too deeply or it would have been a different matter.
The papers finally came for court almost a year later.. with the charge... 'common assault'. The whole court thing was a joke. These 'yobs' ran riot in the court, charged passed the ushers and attempted to barge into the witness room where a young nervous witness was being kept. Shouted from the gallery that this girl was gonna get battered. I was threatened, hissed at, spat at. They were extremely abusive to the volunteer witness people and I was utterly ashamed of their behaviour.
He did get found guilty finally, but what a complete and utter waste of everyone's time. 2 years conditional discharge, £200 costs and £50 compensation... of which he'll probably never pay a penny.
What is this country coming to???? | |
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| Crime and Punishment
Posted: 6/29/2008 8:43:39 AM | | I agree with sending some offenders into the army. People who commit assault without causing major injury for instance, especially if it's a regular thing. Some other crimes I would say an eye for an eye is worth considering...... get bailiffs to break into a burglar's house and steal everything they own! The problem with some punishments, ie the death penalty, is that if they are later proven innocent there is a major problem in releasing them again. | |
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| Crime and Punishment
Posted: 6/29/2008 10:54:53 AM | I was knifed through the lung some years back by a guy who didn't want to wait ten minutes for a cab. It was his second offence and he got a year and a year suspended and served six months. He came straight out and did it again to somebody else.
I now have lung cancer which because it started in the scar tissue from the stabbing took longer to detect than usual and reduced the chances of my treatment being successful.
If this animal had of been locked away the first time he stabbed somebody then I probably wouldn't have been stabbed, nor the person he stabbed after me.
They can bring in all the laws in the world but until the judges start handing out long sentances then all the laws are a waste of time. | |
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| Crime and Punishment
Posted: 6/29/2008 11:58:09 AM | seeing a lot of calls for the death penalty here -
we have convictions in this country that were DNA to be the only evidence prisons would be rapidly emptying!
Since Colin Pitchfork was the first person convicted using DNA evidence in this country there has been increased 'spin' put on the use of DNA - Juries come from all works of life and those some of lower social strata/education levels ( I include myself in this group), will believe evidence-often at face value, simply because the DOCTOR/SCIENTIST/POLICEMAN said.
Convictions are obtained by medical 'experts' bamboozling juries and incompetent defence lawyers do nothing to help.
There are people in our prisons now, awaiting re-trial/leave to appeal, having being convicted on '6 strand' DNA. The present state of scientific research would rule these convictions unsafe.
I would rather 100 go free, than 1 innocent were to lose their life by what equates to state sanctioned murder.
If the death penalty were to be reintroduced, would it be automatic on a par with the mandertory life sentence that is handed down by Judges for murder?
This gives the judiciary no discretion and is a political throw back, some murderers are convicted by an over zealous jury and the Judge is left with no option but to pass the only sentence prescribed by law.
My closing thoughts would be, that one mistake - the pardon is given, can we bring the innocent back to life?
Is the death penalty a deterrent? I can provide evidence that it is not, it to use the USA as an example, is a 'postcode lottery' - your social class, ethenticity and level of education will often mean the difference between life and death.
If you look at Britain's last hang man, Albert Pierpoint - I would recommended reading his biography, for anyone who thinks they could act as Judge Jury and executioner - I have read said book and the establishment line is there throughout. Would take a strong person to admit otherwise in a book written for no reason other than to make money. But I can only go on what I was told by a person that knew him in his declining years - perhaps the old adage 'no athesists in fox holes' springs to mind - however Mr P was used by the state to sanction murder that the aristocracy approved - this was a way of keeping the hoi poli in check without getting their hands dirty.
Mr P was the smallest cog in a big wheel, there are hundereds, possibly thousands in this country who feel they would 'string em up!' We now have a govenment who keep eroding at the judicarys independance - this started when Ken Clarke was Home Sec. He attempted to extend the imposed tariff set by the judge in the case of Jamie Bulgers' murderers. This was the first of many recent attempts to make sentencing political rather than the apolitical that it MUST be. The children that murdered poor Jamie were tried as adults, were we to have the death penalty, no matter how henious the crime, ask yourself would you be willing to take on the killing of a child? For putting emotion aside there is no getting away from the fact that Venables and Thompson were children themselves. Evil? how do we define evil? how do we define responsible - would you feel better knowing that three children had died - one at their hands, two at ours?
We than have this slightly more right wing lot than Clarkes' henchmen - who want to lock people up without charge for three months at a time, Blunkett and the rest of the spangles would possibly love to sneak the death penalty back but the only thing that it does is puts the state in the same bracket as the murderer.
A little over a hundred years ago children, children so hungry that they stole in order to remain alive were routinely executed. We look back judgementaly and in my opinion rightly so, it never should have happened.
Those poor souls from World War I, how many of these 361 men deserved the state sactioned murder that was their lot? Today they would be diagnosed PTSD, if we bring back the death penalty what would happen tomorrow?
www.chrishobbs.com/executions191418.htm
In another hundred years perhaps people will look back at the cases of Ruth Ellis, Christopher Bentley etc with the same revulsion that I do when I think of those hungry children, murderd in the name of the state. That I do when i think of those poor soldiers that had their lifes stolen by the state.
Not in my name. Ever.. | |
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| Crime and Punishment
Posted: 6/29/2008 11:58:16 AM |
SEND YOUNGER EEJITS INTO THE ARMY
No way would I trust these younger eejits with a gun and military training ...
I do think we're far too soft on criminals though. Their rights come before the victims' and any future victims' rights. If they are prepared to act in a way that disregards other people's rights then that should be taken as understood that they don't believe in rights and therefore they forfeit all of their own. And yes, the crime should fit the punishment, though I draw the line at the death penalty. Make their life not worth living instead. | |
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| Crime and Punishment
Posted: 6/29/2008 12:08:26 PM | listening to a prog on gangs in Liverpool on rad 4 this morning, one of the scallys said he would be dissapointed if he didnt pull in a nice little 4 gs a week from dealing...4 grand a week!!! he may be something of an exception but he is probably someone the other toerags aspire to becoming. why should they conform to societies norms? education, work etc?
this scum is a bigger threat to society than terrorists in my opinion, in fact Id go as far as to say they are terorists. why cant more be done to keep this scum locked away? | |
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| Crime and Punishment
Posted: 6/29/2008 2:46:38 PM |
The children that murdered poor Jamie were tried as adults, were we to have the death penalty, no matter how henious the crime, ask yourself would you be willing to take on the killing of a child? For putting emotion aside there is no getting away from the fact that Venables and Thompson were children themselves. Evil? how do we define evil? how do we define responsible - would you feel better knowing that three children had died - one at their hands, two at ours?
I'm sure Jamie Bulgers relatives would disagree with that. As for two at our hands...total rubbish.. Children themselves or not, what they did was utterly disgusting and wrong. If people were raised with more consequences for their actions half the crimes in this country wouldn't exist. But Government saw fit to take that right away... parents and teachers all over being put in situations where they can't discipline their child for doing wrong. Children growing up with the 'you can't touch us' attitude. Criminals with more rights than anyone else. Prisons overcrowded so more criminals are left to walk the streets scott free and commit further crimes. It's about time someone actually stood up for the victims.
So rather 100 walk than 1 innocent die? Let's take Peter Sutcliffe then, with 23 known victims. 100 of him walk... on that average that creates 2300 losses of innocent life. I think in cases like his where it goes waaayyy beyond reasonable doubt there should only be one sentence given, and that sentence certainly shouldn't be to live the rest of his life off the taxpayers money!
Criminals in this country are taking the p*** out of our system and if it doesn't change soon it's only going to get worse. I fear for the next generation! | |
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| Crime and Punishment
Posted: 6/29/2008 3:55:27 PM | Get rid of Dudley-do-right and the fluffy bunny brigade and lets cut the crap. The only way this country will get straight is ZERO TOLERANCE.
Don't start at the bottom with the scalleys and the ASBO gangs. Start at the top with the gun runners and the major players in the drugs importing trade. Send in the SAS and gun them down. No arrests, no trials, no jails. Just exterminate them!
That way the people lower down the food chain have nothing to sell on. And who will want to apsire to being found dead in their bed after dealing drugs and running guns?
It's quite simple, people commit crimes and do all these horrible things because there is currently no deterant that scares them enough to stop them. We would like to think that we are evolved enough as humans to understand this behaviour is wrong and stop it ourselves. I think todays British society shows that we are not, so to protect the rest of the public we need a hard line stance. | |
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| Crime and Punishment
Posted: 6/29/2008 4:06:03 PM |
I'm sure Jamie Bulgers relatives would disagree with that.
I agree, but disagreeing with something does not make it right.
So removing the emotion are you suggesting that the state should have murdered two children?
Just rhetoric as opposed to arguments does not further your case.
The Peter Sutcliffe analogy falls - he is mentally ill, are we to see the Nurembourg defence? | |
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| Crime and Punishment
Posted: 6/29/2008 4:14:49 PM | | I have to admit that as time moves forward the justice system does not seem to keep up. Once upon a time Life meant Life. Take the Moors murderers and other such cases, there is no way they are gonna be released (OK Hindley got out of jail but only cus she was in a box) but these days you can murder someone and all you get is sent away for a luxury holiday at tax payers expense. The punishment should fit the crime, you take anothers life then it's only fitting you should forfeit your own (one way or another). | |
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| Crime and Punishment
Posted: 6/29/2008 4:17:04 PM | I'll never agree to the death penalty, simply because if I was in the jury at a murder trial where execution was the only outcome of a guilty verdict I would see it as myself killing someone if I said they were guilty.
But I do agree tougher sentences are needed for a lot of crimes, and if proven guilty then a criminal should have no "human rights", just as they took away the rights of the victim.
Life should mean life, no matter how long. And I don't mean life in a B&B with bars. A proper prison where they are left to rot in their own solitude, work their butts off (can see the prison service becoming the saviour of British manufacturing) and every penny they earn being paid to the victims in compensation for as long as a jury sees fit. No cigarettes or tobacco, crap food, no contact with loved ones..... they don't deserve it. Wipe them from the face of the planet for the time they are in prison.
For repeated minor offences a term in the army would teach discipline and hopefully re-train them. They'd learn respect and find that they have to trust, and be trusted, or their friends die. | |
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| Crime and Punishment
Posted: 6/29/2008 4:30:00 PM |
No arrests, no trials, no jails. Just exterminate them!
No way, not ever.
The justice system we have has evolved over centuries and is IMO, actually pretty good.
Innocent until proven guilty, the right to a fair trial, the right that no 'cruel and usual punishments' can be inflicted. No death penalty.
Yes, there are definitely times when it would seem that the punishment doesn't fit the crime, when the scum appears back on the streets time and time again.
Yes, I agree that Thompson and Venables got out far too soon but to propose the death penalty for children, what are we, back in the dark ages?
Bentley, hung for murder when he didn't pull the trigger; wrong, just wrong.
What do we want to do with our criminal? Punish or rehabilitate?
I certainly don't have an answer.
Look at our prison population though and you will find most of them are under educated and suffering from mental disorders. Is the justice system failing us or are we failing the less capable? | |
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| Crime and Punishment
Posted: 6/29/2008 4:52:22 PM |
No arrests, no trials, no jails. Just exterminate them! No way, not ever.
Please don't mistake what I said.
That statement was meant for starting right at the top of the crime chain like the big drugs smugglers and gun runners. I certainly don't mean firing squads for anyone accused of stealing a loaf of bread. | |
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| Crime and Punishment
Posted: 6/29/2008 4:56:27 PM |
Please don't mistake what I said.
That statement was meant for starting right at the top of the crime chain like the big drugs smugglers and gun runners. I certainly don't mean firing squads for anyone accused of stealing a loaf of bread.
I appreciate your feelings TG, but suspending the system for the big guns opens the door for just that. It has to be justice for all or it becomes justice for none | |
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| Crime and Punishment
Posted: 6/29/2008 5:06:37 PM |
I appreciate your feelings TG, but suspending the system for the big guns opens the door for just that. It has to be justice for all or it becomes justice for none
But isn't that what we have now..... justice for none?
I know it sounds harsh, but there needs to be a deterant. How do you stops kids getting guns and drugs on the streets? Stop them coming into the country in the first place and by whatever means necessary.
Something has to be done soon, by the government, or you will find gangs of vigilanties will take things into their own hands. That is a slippery slope to disaster and we don't want that happening. | |
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| Crime and Punishment
Posted: 6/29/2008 5:13:43 PM | | But then we are getting into the realms of military action in countries we have no conflict (oil interests) with to kill the sources. What would the results of this be? | |
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| Crime and Punishment
Posted: 6/29/2008 5:36:01 PM |
Something has to be done soon, by the government, or you will find gangs of vigilantes will take things into their own hands
I grew up in one of the roughest and toughest areas of Cardiff, an area where no policemen liked to go a wandering shall we say. Cars were stolen and burnt out, kids would tear around on motorbikes, people would walk the streets high on hardcore drugs, there would be drug dealing, intimidation, fights, muggings, stabbings even murders, but no gun crime in those days.
It was so bad they actually had vigilantes patrolling the streets by 1989. It worked quite well in all fairness but it was a bit of an extortion racket too at the same time.. in the sense that you had to pay these people weekly subs to patrol the streets but this was a time when youth culture wasn't what it is today.
Today is a day where you dont need to be brought up in a rough area to be streetwise, you can be all clued up about crime, make money from drugs, creating multiple identities for benefit fraud, how to gain entry to cars/houses/pick locks etc how to hot wire a car, evasion, fraud, sentencing procedures, hi-tech crime, you name it.. whilst being brought up in a posh housing estate, its all common knowledge on the streets now, some of the kids are way too streetwise.
And the government are so dopey, really slow when it comes to dealing with stuff like this, they make such stupid laws and procedures that dont help. The criminals must be laughing their socks off! They know that this country is soft on crime, not tough on crime. They know that politicians blow a load of hot air to win votes but when it comes to the crunch all their 'tough on crime' proposals never get implemented because theyre not workable, in the sense that they would have to build another 20 prisons to cope with the extra numbers of people getting locked up/ staying inside for longer. And thats money, money they would rather waste on some other rubbish like expensive MPs 2nd homes with all the trimmings, and money to pay for all the war equipment and bombs they drop in the middle east bla bla bla
If you ask me, they need to bring in national service just to give people the much needed discipline they dont seem to have acquired in their lives, and if anyone breaks laws, depending on how serious, they should be made to be of more use and service to this country, i.e. instead of going to a holiday camp to spend christmas with all their mates over the wall and having a laugh and taking it easy, they should be out cleaning up the streets and painting/repairing the absolutely diabolical state of repairs that buildings, fixtures and whatever has been neglected for too long. I mean, has this country no pride, it looks like its falling apart and been left to the dogs when I look around me. So much more could be done to spruce up our neighbourhoods. | |
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| Crime and Punishment
Posted: 6/29/2008 5:39:00 PM | i think it's amazing how many criminals hide behind mental illness when they're caught like they deserve some special vote of sympathy.
Society in itself is sick for letting these individuals get away with it. | |
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