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| Trust, and when it disappears
Posted: 2/27/2006 2:47:06 PM | Has anyone ever caught there SO in a blatant lie ?
Not a "white" lie, such as "yes I like your dress", or "no you don't need to loose weight", but a blatant and "selfish" lie. A lie that serves no purpose other than to cover their own ass ... to keep them out of the dog house.
Even worse, given repeated offers of amnesty, assurances that the truth wouldn't be that bad, and encouragement to "come clean", they still steadfastly and stubbornly stick to their idiotic lie.
The thing that is so frustrating is the truth really wasn't that bad. Not at all. Why can't they just tell the truth and deal with the consequences ?
I mean, don't get me wrong, I can understand the appeal of lying and not having to deal with the consequences ... but then there is the issue of good judgement. If you will lie about a very small wrong doing, something that is relatively silly, then I guess it goes without saying you will lie about anything that is more serious. Why risk it for something so trivial ?
Is it possible to ever trust someone after something like this ? If they will adamantly lie about something relatively trivial, something that is by no means a deal breaker, then how can you expect them to tell the truth about something more serious ?
For some reason I have been unlucky enough to attract several liars in the past. I think it is a sympton of immaturity and age.
Does anyone think it is truly possible to turn over a new leaf ? To rebuild trust ?
If I confront them with this, and show them my "proof", I'm sure that is going to be their suggestion and their promise. I just don't know though ... | |
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| Trust, and when it disappears
Posted: 2/27/2006 3:25:28 PM | Why would you want to build a relationship with a liar??? People who lie about little things, lie about big things. I believe they have decided that truth is optional depending on their mood, their motive or their need to get what they want at that moment.
I learned the result of this mistake the hard way but go ahead and make that mistake yourself if you must.......it's not pretty and it doesn't bite you in the ass until you've wasted a number of years and your children's ideal home life if you have children with the liar as well. | |
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| Trust, and when it disappears
Posted: 2/27/2006 6:30:00 PM | | i was standing outside this girls house and i was throwing poop at her nabours house because she told me how much he heraased her. I asked her if she ever did anything with him, because then i would have inderstood. But she said no.. I t came back to haunt the both of us. | |
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| Trust, and when it disappears
Posted: 2/27/2006 7:09:48 PM | When do we feel we need to hide or lie about who we are?
When we fear the consequences more than we appreciate the benefits.
Fear, shame and guilt -
There are great benefits to accepting yourself and sharing that openly and honestly with others - but there is also a price - being judged, disliked, offending, being rejected etc.
Culturally we are taught to tell white lies, be diplomatic and not make waves - and we come down pretty hard on those who do.
I think we have to present as authentic in the beginning of a relationship to build the foundation for later.
I'd say "I'm committed to honesty and openness in a relationship and I want to find a partner who shares my world view - if you do let's start working together to make that a reality".
Consider the past a co-created reality and move towards the future with the idea of co-creating a more mutually beneficial reality. | |
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| Trust, and when it disappears
Posted: 2/27/2006 7:14:18 PM | doggone it, i thought this might be about an eleven year old lying about his homework
(sulks back into the forum table of contents...) | |
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| Trust, and when it disappears
Posted: 2/27/2006 7:59:54 PM | @dickboston
I really liked your comment. It was very nice.
I don't know if I will give this a second chance or not, but your comment was appreciated.
I'm just bummed.
I thought I had created an atomosphere of forgiveness and understanding, so telling the truth would be easy. I guess not. | |
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| Trust, and when it disappears
Posted: 2/27/2006 8:07:30 PM | | once someone lies it brings out the question well if you lied to me about this what other things have you lied to me about. being honest from the get go is the best way when someones honest all the time me personally I respect them. I wouldn't be able to trust a liar it's like you said if someone can lie over something silly then they can lie about anything find someone who'll be truthful to you so you won't have to worry abt these ty[es of situations again good luck and take care. | |
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| Trust, and when it disappears
Posted: 2/27/2006 9:28:02 PM | Eric,
I have to disagree with the comments here. The O.P.'s position was not about doubting themselves but in questioning whether we've ever trusted in a liarpants. We all have. We've all listened to the rationalization a liar gives to cover their own "fear, shame, guilt." There are no benefits in this, no pay-off. The O.P. wasn't talking about a little white lie. This is the "I am not married" only to discover they really are, or "I am going home" only to discover they've headed over to someone else's house.
To place upon society in general about a personal choice to be truthful about who and what you are is to state that a person who lies about themselves, their lives, their participation in the relationship they have with you, is to say that person can find the loop hole to continue on with their B.S.ing. It is a dichotomy, of course. But an intelligent, self-confident individual will say they are who they are and allow the other person to make the choice whether to be with them. A manipulator will choose to lie.
To consider the past a co-created reality is to have both participants bringing reality TO the table. Liars don't do that. Liars bring B.S. Some of them have a great deal to bring. | |
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| Trust, and when it disappears
Posted: 2/27/2006 9:34:30 PM | Dick Boston,
I have to disagree with the comments here. The O.P.'s position was not about doubting themselves but in questioning whether we've ever trusted in a liarpants. We all have. We've all listened to the rationalization a liar gives to cover their own "fear, shame, guilt." There are no benefits in this, no pay-off. The O.P. wasn't talking about a little white lie. This is the "I am not married" only to discover they really are, or "I am going home" only to discover they've headed over to someone else's house.
To place upon society in general about a personal choice to be truthful about who and what you are is to state that a person who lies about themselves, their lives, their participation in the relationship they have with you, is to say that person can find the loop hole to continue on with their B.S.ing. It is a dichotomy, of course. But an intelligent, self-confident individual will say they are who they are and allow the other person to make the choice whether to be with them. A manipulator will choose to lie.
To consider the past a co-created reality is to have both participants bringing reality TO the table. Liars don't do that. Liars bring B.S. Some of them have a great deal to bring. | |
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| Trust, and when it disappears
Posted: 2/27/2006 9:45:19 PM | Has anyone ever caught there SO in a blatant lie ?
Yes; I have caught many of them in lies. The worst part is that telling the truth would not have caused much of a problem at all!! I even go as far as to give them a "save face" tell the truth way out!! (make it seems as if a miscommunication ocurred instead of a lie on her part)
Edit: I know exactly what you are saying sir.
If you will lie about a very small wrong doing, something that is relatively silly, then I guess it goes without saying you will lie about anything that is more serious.
A friend and I were discussing this. If she/he will lie to you to escape repercussion or discussion when a relationship is new and we have no real right to say so much in repercussion...what is going to happen when they know we have alot invested!??
Some people carry the belief that a newer S.O. has to earn the right to not be lied to and be told the truth. (wierd how that has changed in so many minds in NA hu?)
Why risk it for something so trivial ?
To see if they can get that pattern of abusing you and your trust set in stone and perfected?
*Shrugs*
If they will adamantly lie about something relatively trivial, something that is by no means a deal breaker, then how can you expect them to tell the truth about something more serious ?
The answer is obvious.
hmmm; are you dating a girl I once dated by any chance?
I end things fast when caught in a lie. I keep watching them run the logic ring until they realize they are busted. Then, they usually hate me because I let them run so crazily that their lie is so blatently..nakedly..exposed. I swear dude; women HATE being naked in their lies and deceptions. (wow)
For some reason I have been unlucky enough to attract several liars in the past
They see honesty and kindness as a weakness dude. (They're stupid you see)
If I confront them with this, and show them my "proof",
They may break off with you and try to get revenge for making it so obvious that they are ...not only a lier and deciever....but dumb enough to be caught in it so easily. ("the woman scorned"...never forget that dude)
I'm sure that is going to be their suggestion and their promise
I would make her beg.
IN truth; I don't think I could stomach watching her admit to being busted and telling me she wouldn't ever do it again. Actions are most everything. I would let it go with her knowing, pretty certainly, that the lie is exposed. If she tries it again; I would tell her what she seems to be...tell her why....then tell her to f*ck off and go play in her own league..with her own type. (with a guy who would decieve her like she wishes to decieve him; they're made for each other)
@dickboston
I really liked your comment
Same here!! | |
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| Trust, and when it disappears
Posted: 2/27/2006 10:10:36 PM | @frrosty
Yeah, you wouldn't believe the insane lengths I went to simply to get her to tell me the truth. After all, I care about her deeply and knew how damaging this would be. I was practically begging her to tell me the truth.
I even gave her a way out. I told her the truth, as corroborated by the hard cold evidence that I have (that she does NOT realize I have), and literally provided her with a ready made explaination why that truth would not necessarily be so bad, and yet she still continued with the deceit.
Then I told her she could just "come clean", and she even went so far as to say "she promised". When I asked her if she "was sure" she actually had the nerve to get irrate and pissy with me, and yell at me for not trusting her. The whole time I was thinking just how painful it was going to be to confront her with the evidence, after she had dug her hole so deep. It was literally painful for me to endure, knowing how bad things were getting.
I felt my heart sink.
I wouldn't even bother confronting her, but I don't think it is unrealistic to think I can avoid it. She isn't all bad by any means, and deserves an explaination. Hopefully she will learn something from all this. | |
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| Trust, and when it disappears
Posted: 2/27/2006 10:23:52 PM |
she even went so far as to say "she promised".
I've never met a liar who can "promise" dude. | |
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| Trust, and when it disappears
Posted: 2/28/2006 1:26:41 AM | | Trust is the bedrock of any solid relationship.Once thats gone for whatever reason its allmost impossible to recover.However that certainly does not mean it can't be done.I think that probably starts with working through the anger,something thats definately not easy.Then there has to be some forgiveness along with the realisation that the lie itself is part of your life now.With a lot of patience and time I think you will see that people can change for the better.That however depends on the individuals involved and how much respect and love they really have for one onother. | |
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| Trust, and when it disappears
Posted: 2/28/2006 1:58:27 AM | OP:"For some reason I have been unlucky enough to attract several liars in the past. I think it is a sympton of immaturity and age."
It's not a symtom of immaturity or age, it's a symptom of underestimation on their part.
They've underestimated how you'd react to it.
If you feel in your gut that something is wrong, no...it might not be. It might be your past experiences coming back to haunt you.
Believe me, I've been there, done that. BUT...if, as you say, you have the proof, then by all means, if they can lie about something trivial, they can sure as hell lie about something major. And they will.
Doesn't mean they have. Just means they CAN.
Keep your eyes open as you sleep...
Cheers, ¤Läcëy¤  | |
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| Trust, and when it disappears
Posted: 2/28/2006 2:00:20 AM | | vtsnowman said it..."Then there has to be some forgiveness along with the realisation that the lie itself is part of your life now" | |
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Mayavi
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Joined: 11/20/2005
Msg: 18 | |
| Trust, and when it disappears
Posted: 3/10/2006 9:17:17 PM | Topical, because a couple of hours ago I broke off a one month relationship because I could no longer trust her. I told her from the outset that honesty is of paramount importance to me, and that I cannot be with someone who lies or attempts to manipulate me. Now the spell is broken.
What she did was motivated by a desire to hold onto the relationship at the first sign of waning interest from me. Not inherently bad, just desperate and manipulative. The lie she told to make her story fit the facts when I discovered things that didn't add up (I would make an excellent detective), again was motivated by fear, and the hope that my emotions might override logic and make me accept the situation. Very sad. Had she given me acceptance, rather than trying to take control, we would still be together. In "soft style" martial arts, one learns to feel the intentions of one's opponent and not try to control their actions with direct opposing force.
At some level, most people can sense a lie. Therefore, I think that lies and manipulation, to some degree, rely on the consent of the manipulated. In some cases, the manipulated feels that he has no choice but to resign themselves to the situation, but I think that is still a form of consent. | |
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| Trust, and when it disappears
Posted: 3/10/2006 9:23:58 PM | | to the OP.. OMG i know exactly where you are coming from, blatant, in your face liars are the worst. For me, i can't rebuild trust with those people... I always give the benefit of the doubt, and even when my instinct and perception tell me otherwise, until i have hard proof of deception, but once i do, that's it, i can't go back | |
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| Trust, and when it disappears
Posted: 3/10/2006 9:30:44 PM | Does anyone think it is truly possible to turn over a new leaf ? To rebuild trust ?
Based on my own personal experience, yes, it is possible .. but it is a long, painful road that noone in their right mind should choose to walk, and the chances of them changing are very slim.
When I married my husband, I knew he had a habit of ... exagerating. In my mind at the time, (keeping in mind this was a long time ago and not a choice I would ever consider now), I figured "I know he's full of it, he knows he's full of it, so there's no point in calling him on it .. he'll grow up eventually." I attributed it to his past, his childhood, which had been severely rocky and painful ... when you're raised by a habitual liar, that's what you're likely going to be. I thought I could help him.
For the first several years, it was lie after lie after lie. For no good reason half the time .. just to lie. He'd make up stories which were blatantly lies, about his past, about people, etc .. and lies that were always easily disproven. I gave him chance after chance to come clean with me and start over, and he'd inevitably lie to me again, not more than a day or two later. Lying was literally second nature to him. Never about anything serious ... but lies just the same, and painful because he didn't respect me enough to be honest with me.
It's been 7 years since, he recognized his problems way back then, sought councelling, and has moved well past it. He's a very honest man .... now. But the road from there to here was long and hard ... given the chance to go back, I would never choose to involve myself with someone who isn't honest right from the beginning. I have zero tolerance for dishonesty, it's not worth the time and effort to put up with people who don't give you the common courtesy of honesty. | |
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| Trust, and when it disappears
Posted: 3/10/2006 9:35:18 PM |
I have zero tolerance for dishonesty, it's not worth the time and effort to put up with people who don't give you the common courtesy of honesty.
You said it sister. | |
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