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Show ALL Forums  > Current Events  > Lava Life & Quest fight anti-discrimination bill - Claim they cant'      Home login  
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 nedly
Joined: 10/18/2005
Msg: 1
Lava Life & Quest fight anti-discrimination bill - Claim they cant' make a profit!Page 1 of 1    
Exceprts from the Toronto Star.

(Regarding Ontario Bill #9 which would prohibit gender based pricing.)


""Dating services hire top lobbyist to fight gender pricing bill...


Two major online dating services have hired an influential Liberal lobbyist to try to crush legislation that would outlaw gender-based price discrimination.


Lavalife and Quest, two competing Toronto-based firms, have retained the services of Hill and Knowlton vice-president Bob Lopinski.

Lopinski, a former top adviser to Premier Dalton McGuinty and still a powerful insider in provincial Liberal circles, has been aggressively lobbying MPPs to kill Bill 9.


That's the landmark private member's legislation spearheaded by Liberal MPP Lorenzo Berardinetti (Scarborough-Southwest) that would prevent retailers from charging men or women different prices for essentially the same goods and services.

Berardinetti, who made headlines around the world last year when he drafted the legislation, told the Toronto Star he was taken aback that the companies hired a big-gun lobbyist.

"I was a little bit surprised by that because I really didn't think the issue was really about Lavalife (or online dating). I thought the issue was about fairness and about gender-based pricing when it comes to areas like haircuts and dry-cleaning and alterations to suits and so on," he said.

"For example if a woman spends 20 minutes to get her hair done and if a man spends 20 minutes to get his hair done, the price should be roughly the same for the same kind of work." ""

(From a brief sent out by LavaLife And Quest)



"" "Both Lavalife and Quest charge men for using their phone service while providing women with free access. This is the standard industry practice worldwide. It is the only proven way to successfully provide this type of service," it continues.""



(All of the above makes you wonder how the heck this site does so well for free!!!!)

LONG LIVE THE FISH POND!!!!!!!!!!!


 late™
Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 2
Lava Life & Quest fight anti-discrimination bill - Claim they cant' make a profit!
Posted: 3/13/2006 1:27:21 PM

It is the only proven way to successfully provide this type of service,


Actually, it's the means with which "pay-sites" scam it's user-base.

See:

http://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts2493442.aspx
 Cybury
Joined: 12/13/2005
Msg: 3
Lava Life & Quest fight anti-discrimination bill - Claim they cant' make a profit!
Posted: 3/13/2006 1:38:49 PM
Lavaloaf is a rip off... I hope they do go bankrupt

I know I will never use their services again
 Roxie Hart
Joined: 3/1/2006
Msg: 4
Lava Life & Quest fight anti-discrimination bill - Claim they cant' make a profit!
Posted: 3/13/2006 1:55:51 PM
As a business it's ridiculous to have to honour this bill when everyone knows that dating sites as well as bars or any type of singles dwelling attract more men than women. That is the only reason they do the difference, to attract more women. It's a fact women are less willing to pay a fee to join a site where as men will pay and if there aren't enough women men will leave....

Even POF started doing ads here in Toronto local tv, and the ad says something along the lines of: "if you haven't join your girlfriends already have" Is that intended for both genders? no. for women mostly because dating sites need more women.
 late™
Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 5
Lava Life & Quest fight anti-discrimination bill - Claim they cant' make a profit!
Posted: 3/13/2006 2:34:09 PM
attract more men than women.


On POF the ratio has been steadily moving toward 1:1, the last stat I saw (probably 6m ago) was >1.5:1 global > 1.2:1 Canada

The trend is toward a balance of the two genders

...but, ...it's not a pay site.




Even POF started doing ads here in Toronto local tv, and the ad says something along the lines of: "if you haven't join your girlfriends already have" Is that intended for both genders?


Without a doubt.
 Gotapulse
Joined: 3/21/2005
Msg: 6
Lava Life & Quest fight anti-discrimination bill - Claim they cant' make a profit!
Posted: 3/13/2006 2:52:51 PM
Good. I hope those two lose their court battle too. With any luck, it and this site will put them out of business. That aside, with all the rhetoric about equality and fairness and what not, I can't figure how they plan to use the law to back up their discriminatory practices. It's no different than paying different wages for the same work.
 Roxie Hart
Joined: 3/1/2006
Msg: 7
Lava Life & Quest fight anti-discrimination bill - Claim they cant' make a profit!
Posted: 3/13/2006 2:56:30 PM
"without a doubt"


so does that mean they are intended for both genders? or as I interpret it: for females? and let me also add the only time I ever saw the commercial on tv was after the show The Bachelor, and who watches that show? 99% women....

I don't get why if the ration is so equal here they would take out an ad geared towards attracting women?
 late™
Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 8
Lava Life & Quest fight anti-discrimination bill - Claim they cant' make a profit!
Posted: 3/13/2006 2:59:54 PM
Well, I think it goes a little deeper than trying to balance demographics and equality.

Honestly, I think they're worried about the "scam" aspect being revealed.

The target "pay" customer is male, this is probably because males are more likely to respond to "first" messages, than females.

If a pay site wants to employ fake "shill" profiles to harvest $ from the more likely responders, they don't want to leave a paper trail, re: "accounting record", of the shill mail, ...they would have to report and substantiate, AND pay tax on the income of the fictitious shill mail.

If it looks like a scam, if it sounds like a scam, if it....... you get my drift.



I don't get why if the ration is so equal here they would take out an ad geared towards attracting women?


I've learned not to doubt Markus' marketing savvy, this is the largest site of it's kind in the world, and probably the most balanced, in regards to gender ratio.

Men and women pay the same fee = $0.00

The ad was appropriately geared toward the target demographic of the TV show programming time slot.

I'm not surprised.

 Roxie Hart
Joined: 3/1/2006
Msg: 9
Lava Life & Quest fight anti-discrimination bill - Claim they cant' make a profit!
Posted: 3/13/2006 3:01:55 PM
another thing:

why do bars only have lady's night? and never guy's night? if equality should be used in all these types of businesses then we will see all sorts of establishements going out of business.
In my opinion they should just let these people be. POF is free so this does not affect it, but if it was a paid site guranteed POF would also jump on the ban-wagon. Face it most these types of paid services attract more men than women when it comes to paying for a service/door ticket/drinks women would opt the freebie over the paying one.
 Roxie Hart
Joined: 3/1/2006
Msg: 10
Lava Life & Quest fight anti-discrimination bill - Claim they cant' make a profit!
Posted: 3/13/2006 3:03:30 PM
""Well, I think it goes a little deeper than trying to balance demographics and equality.

Honestly, I think they're worried about the "scam" aspect being revealed."


oh that didnt occur to me, good point. Yes in that case I can see why the law would want to step in.
 markus
Joined: 3/27/2001
Msg: 11
view profile
History
Lava Life & Quest fight anti-discrimination bill - Claim they cant' make a profit!
Posted: 3/13/2006 3:11:17 PM
Its not like lavalife and quest make any money on the web side of things.

Of the $100 million+ a year in revenues that each company makes 90%+ of that comes from their phone chat/sex lines. Of course the only way for those to work is if it is free for women to call into them, and make the men pay $2/minute or whatever it is.
 Roxie Hart
Joined: 3/1/2006
Msg: 12
Lava Life & Quest fight anti-discrimination bill - Claim they cant' make a profit!
Posted: 3/13/2006 3:33:05 PM
Oh would Amin be the big cheese? well that's special that we have him fraternizing with the patrons. How nice and refershing! ;-) (oh cool I can edit my response now!!! sorry for all the mistakes in my last response)

Yes I figured pretty much the sexchatlines are pretty much what makes those sites the money. But they must also be making money from all the memberships men are purcahsing as well, do they not?

Back to the Quest/Lavalife gender pricing thing pertaining mainly to the phone parts, well most women would never pay for phone sex not like I would know either way.....(cough) but I would assume most women won't so they have to give women and incentive...
 sum1reel
Joined: 6/5/2005
Msg: 13
Lava Life & Quest fight anti-discrimination bill - Claim they cant' make a profit!
Posted: 3/13/2006 6:29:20 PM
any man who would pay into a site which does what lavalife does.......deserves to get shafted!
 Roxie Hart
Joined: 3/1/2006
Msg: 14
Lava Life & Quest fight anti-discrimination bill - Claim they cant' make a profit!
Posted: 3/14/2006 11:04:12 AM
your example of this equally geared singles service is from 13 years ago? LOL


You said yourself that it was mostly over 30, EXACTLY. that is why "singles" businesses feel the need to give cuts to women because the ones in the 35 and up group will come out but the more desirable demographic of women between 24-35 (and this is what draws men out) will not come out so easily if they have to pay high fees.

I guess we won't get a straight answer still as to why POF feels they need to advertise specifically to women in toronto, being a free site and all....?

I worked for a matching service 12 yrs ago and back then we would charge women in the 21-29 groups peanuts in comparisson to what we charged men, why? young women had no need to use a dating service, older men wanted to date younger women...the only way they would attract more men to the site is to offer vertually free services to women. everyone won (well...everyone except the guys of course who were paying $500-$3000 memberships but had they not given out freebies to women they would be stuck with a whopping pool of a handful of datable women) the agency won of course...

so marketing tendencies will always reflect supply and demand. if you want businesses to flourish, as the Canadian gov. who promotes business start-ups, they need to relax on these "laws" and let them market themselves as they see fit. That is irrelevant to scams, people get greedy and try to scam, and if they place a gender law in order the scamers will try to outdo that. You can't win and everyone loses. Eventually it fhtey scam people it will bite them in the butt and people will catch on. As far as the law goes, let things play themselves out and stop trying to control people's will.
 nedly
Joined: 10/18/2005
Msg: 15
Lava Life & Quest fight anti-discrimination bill - Claim they cant' make a profit!
Posted: 3/14/2006 7:39:28 PM
"Says the marketing stats. "

That's just it marketing points do not actually mean anything. It's one of those Holy Grails of advertising to reach a certain age group. Women and men in those ages are the least settled of people and the ones most likely to drift from one thing to the next. The next fad is just a week away.

Remember the phrase "That's so last weeK??"

Stupid Mass Marketers think that this age group is the one to go for and miss the much larger audience. You know the joke - Ad men are just guys who failed at selling used cars.

If you want to meet the 20-35 crowd go to a singles bar. Young people go out as large groups usually a bunch of guys who complain that the girls won't notice them and a group of girls who say the same about the guys from the opposite side of the room. Both groups then move on to the next bar a few minutes later and start the same whines all over again. If you want People to join something you must look at an older group.

The club I belonged to didn't have any problems attracting young attractive single women, We had them in droves. The problem was getting them to actually join the club. Most picked up a guy the first night out and never bothered to actually join. ( Guests were allowed to attend two events before deciding to join.) The core membership - the people who did all the work of planning events and hosting parties were the ones who were older and more settled.

You will find the same thing here.It's the older people who support the site, do all the party planning and post in the forums. The younger "Pretty" crowd have their own things to do.


As a wise man once said thousands of years ago "The only thing wrong with youth is that it's wasted on the young."

Marcus "BigFish" has wisely targeted this site at an older crowd and is cleaning up at it.

Rumour has it this site is #5 in the world. Not bad for a one man operation.

I wish I had bought stock in it.
 dionysyus
Joined: 9/27/2005
Msg: 16
Lava Life & Quest fight anti-discrimination bill - Claim they cant' make a profit!
Posted: 3/15/2006 1:38:27 PM
Well I hope they win the case. I like phone dating way more then internet, basically because it is a lot easier to meet people that way.

I've had 4 long term relationships that lasted 1 - 3 years each come out of the phone system that used to be called Telepersonals before it got bought out by Lavalife, and I've probably met and dated at least a dozen other women from there.

In comparison, I've met probably 6 women off of the net, some of which I had shorter term relationship with; 3 of those from the old classifieds2000 site which went under a long time ago, and 3 from alternative dating sites (none from pof or lava).

PoF has cool forums, but it doesn't seem like a place to actually meet women. The phone is better, and it would be lame it went under. It's already not what it used to be because of the online competition.

I think lot of people prefer the net because they think they can tell what a person looks like from a little picture, but you really can't. You can get just as good as an idea from asking for a description on the phone, and it's way easier to get to know the person. Verbal communication is much faster and more effective because you have tone of voice.
 kitsguy4u
Joined: 11/19/2005
Msg: 17
view profile
History
Lava Life & Quest fight anti-discrimination bill - Claim they cant' make a profit!
Posted: 4/11/2006 4:10:02 PM
As the link in message #2 shows those pay sites often use scams. I had tried some where you sign up for free (but pay through the nose to do anything) and suddenly I am getting "emails" from young sexy women from all over the country and even from others. Only to read or reply to the emails I have to pay $20-$30 to be a full member. Now I dont want to sell myself short but a woman 10 years younger than me and smoking hot shouldnt need to be trying to email me for a date. Long ago I did get suckered into paying as I had a fair number of "interested women" yet after I joined and emailed them back there wasnt a single reply! I also noticed with these sites that when your membership expires you suddenly get a bunch more emails. Thats why I dont bother with other sites. My number one attraction to pof is the forums as there are a lot of great discussions and also a few flighty fun ones. Its a great community in here and a great place to make friends.

Lets see its free to email someone on here and its $3-$4 to email someone on lavaloaf.

As for ads being run aimed at getting women to join? Why not? If there are more men than women then why not advertise to the women. once its a 50-50 ratio I am sure the ads will be directed at both genders. And should there suddenly be a lot of women signing up and the ratio turns to be more women than men they will run ads to get the men to join up.

I will admit when I joined pof i was waiting to find out what hidden fees were involved. I am still amazed that the best dating site in the world is free. I think eventually these pay sites will have to hire lobbyists to try and ban free sites as they cant compete anymore!

Long live POF!
 arri
Joined: 10/5/2005
Msg: 18
Lava Life & Quest fight anti-discrimination bill - Claim they cant' make a profit!
Posted: 4/12/2006 5:40:44 PM

Lets see its free to email someone on here and its $3-$4 to email someone on lavaloaf.


That's why ... I don't mind getting read/deleted here the only thing that hurts, is the ego
 yna6
Joined: 5/2/2004
Msg: 19
Lava Life & Quest fight anti-discrimination bill - Claim they cant' make a profit!
Posted: 4/12/2006 6:00:33 PM
Haircuts? Who is more likely to complain if the haircut doen't meet with their satisfaction? A woman...so it has to be redone or touched up. More time spent by the hairdresser...who may do it "for free", although they have already been "paid" by charging a higher price. Guys know that the difference between a good haircut and a bad one is about a weeks growth.

as far as phone dating services are concerned....some sites are "women are always free!", but who uses the phone more? Men or women? Women. Dating sites....free for women...or a lot less in price. Guys are willing to pay for it. Women know they can go almost anywhere and get a guy...guys don't have that option.

Sure...some women say "I don't like singles bars"...so what? They could go there and get picked up anytime. A guy can't do the same. Big difference.

some bars DO have "guys night"...usually a night when there is a game on the big screen. Knew of one place that had big screen TV and strippers! Best of both worlds, although your neck could get hurt whipping your head around to see it all.

Women (as a whole) do NOT want to be treated equally by society in general...they just want to be treated! How many ads here say "must be financially stable", or "knows how to treat me right", or "must not be cheap?" Big indicators that women want to be treated...but not fairly by the retail world. (hehehe...oh boy....where's my asbestos underwear?)
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