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 Loci
Joined: 2/3/2005
Msg: 1
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Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!Page 1 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
I grew up in a luthern church and i always heard scary tales of THE DEVIL , satan, and his many other vile names. In my later life i began to sort of laugh as i recall the storys about this enity known as THE DEVIL. It is said by christian faith(or is it just chatholics i'm not sure) that The christian god is infoulable. Yet he created an angel that turned on him? doesn't that seem a little odd to you? an infoulable enity created a being that was suppose to be perfect(as i always comprehended angels were perfect enities of light) yet some how ONE of them fell from grace? now to me that doesn't make any sence if he is infoulable how could the devil be created? personally i think the Devil,lucifer and the entire story was created to help propoganda destroy the old religions. But i just want your opinions how many believe in the devil, and why.
 easytag
Joined: 7/15/2003
Msg: 2
Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!
Posted: 2/4/2005 9:01:49 AM
"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled, was to convince the world he didn't exist."

-Verbal Kent, "The Usual Suspects"

Good movie, good line
 eccentric
Joined: 1/1/2005
Msg: 3
Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!
Posted: 2/4/2005 9:30:56 AM
In the greek mythology there was one god who was jealous of the other gods for fear that they would be stronger then him, why then shouldn't we be lead to believe that this christian god is that god. and that he taught his followers that all of the other gods where demons, and would surely lead them to a pit in hell.
 MajMikeW
Joined: 10/9/2004
Msg: 4
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Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!
Posted: 2/4/2005 9:37:19 AM
A complex question with a simple answer.

When God created each of His spirit children He endowed them with free will, the only way for them to be true individuals, rather than automatons eternally groveling at His feet.

In doing so, He recognized that some will make choices against His will. For instance, when the Plan of Salvation was presented to the hosts of Heaven, Lucifer asked God to chose him as the saviour, and in turn he will save every soul and return them all to God. The only way to do this was to remove free will, thereby coercing them to 'do good', invalidating this period of mortality where we were sent to see if we would "chose the right".

Christ then steps forward and says "send me Father, and Thy will be done". He would follow the Plan and offer Himself as the ransom for those of us who sin (all of us), allowing us to keep our free will but still have a way to return to God, through His atonement.

Lucifer was angry, and started a war in Heaven, because he wanted the glory of salvation to be his. His pride was his downfall. He and the third of the hosts of Heaven who fought against God were cast down from Heaven. Those of us who have lived on this Earth were among the ones who fought against him, or at least did not fight against God.

The idea of a devil with horns and a tail is a human creation, as is the lake of eternal fire. But the seduction of Lucifer is real, we see it every day when people place their needs and wants above those of their fellow man. And when a man sees himself as the 'ultimate' creation, he begins to see himself as the ultimate authority as well, which leads us rapidly to the "he who dies with the most toys wins" philosophy.

Okay, a little longer than I intended, but a brief synopsis of what I believe.

Hope it helps.

MajMike
 eccentric
Joined: 1/1/2005
Msg: 5
Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!
Posted: 2/4/2005 9:42:57 AM
The only devils and gods that exist can be found in the same place...in your heart...its the simple conflict between right and wrong and what feels good.
 soco
Joined: 1/23/2005
Msg: 6
Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!
Posted: 2/4/2005 12:57:01 PM
I agree with eccentric. It's all about balance. If we create a god and heaven is our reward for being "good" then there must be a place for those who do not live by the churches rules and this place is hell. You know the church seems a lot like G. W. Bush. Forcing there beliefs on others haha. Sorry republicans I don't mean to offend I just had to throw that out, i know Clinton and well even Kerry arent the best either.
 gamerdork
Joined: 2/1/2005
Msg: 7
Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!
Posted: 2/4/2005 2:28:43 PM
Very little of the mythology Christians believe about "the devil" is even supported by the Bible.
 sealacamp
Joined: 12/17/2004
Msg: 8
Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!
Posted: 2/4/2005 2:39:18 PM
As the scriptures indicate satan is the counterfit god. He tries to emulate God in every way as much as is possible. That is because He desires to be God and have all the privelege that comes with that position. The reason is very simple. Free will. God gave all his cognizant beings the choice to do as they wish with their lives. Satan chose to rebel, lie, and counterfit every good thing that God made. Just because God is infallable does not mean that everything that He made that can choose is the same as the creator. I don't see how you equate the two.
 shadesofgrey
Joined: 1/29/2005
Msg: 9
Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!
Posted: 2/4/2005 4:19:24 PM
Is a pit in hell like a hole dug in the ground, or is it more like an arm pit?
 gamerdork
Joined: 2/1/2005
Msg: 10
Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!
Posted: 2/4/2005 7:14:32 PM
Satan works for God. God TOLD Satan to put Job through hell on earth to test him. Satan does God's dirty work.
 Loukus
Joined: 2/15/2004
Msg: 11
Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!
Posted: 2/4/2005 10:06:49 PM
This "dirty work" that you're talking about wouldnt exist, in a Christian worldview, without Sin.

You can hardly blame God for free-willed sin.
 FauzWuzHere
Joined: 8/26/2004
Msg: 12
Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!
Posted: 2/5/2005 12:35:20 AM

"Very little of the mythology Christians believe about "the devil" is even supported by the Bible."


Like what?

The bible describes satan's purpose and ways rather well. No physical appearance is given to my knowledge.

The devil is on earth. Earth is his home. He got the deed to earth when Adam/Eve sinned for the first time. The lake of fire is where satan will be banished along with his demons and followers. It is not his home. He doesn't want to be banished there anymore than anyone else does.

If the devil was in front of you, what would he be like? Probably a we dressed, charming man who would be extremely charismatic. He would likely be a blast to hang out with and have fun. He would likely be smiling and drinking with the rest of us and things he would say things that would seem so correct and right. His philosophy would appear to align with modern ideals and new age thinking and he would genuinely appear to be the coolest guy you've ever met.

But, if you compared his stance and philosophy to the bible, you'd realise that he contradicted everything God stands for, yet made it sound so sweet and so right. He truly is the wolf in sheeps clothing.
 FauzWuzHere
Joined: 8/26/2004
Msg: 13
Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!
Posted: 2/5/2005 12:38:16 AM

"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled, was to convince the world he didn't exist."

-Verbal Kent, "The Usual Suspects"

Good movie, good line


Yeah I use that alot, but I never knew where it came from.

There is alot of truth to that. Satan does not want to reveal his existence, or else it would confirm God's existence.
 ScottMorfitt
Joined: 11/20/2004
Msg: 14
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Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!
Posted: 2/5/2005 1:15:38 AM
Satan works for God. God TOLD Satan to put Job through hell on earth to test him. Satan does God's dirty work.

Dude, that is not the case. Satan went to Heaven to chat with God. God chatted with him about Job and what a great man of the faith he was. Satan thought Job wouldn't be such a believer if he wasn't loaded. Satan, then, asked God if he could test Job and God agreed.

But, on the other hand I do believe that God preordained that there would be a Satan and Satan is in some twisted way part of God's purpose.
 ScottMorfitt
Joined: 11/20/2004
Msg: 15
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Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!
Posted: 2/5/2005 1:16:31 AM
Oh,
How do you do those sweet boxy quote guys. I want to know. I know its off the topic but I need to know this.
 FauzWuzHere
Joined: 8/26/2004
Msg: 16
Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!
Posted: 2/5/2005 1:47:10 AM
When you post, use (quote) then write your text, then (/quote).

Now, replace those round brackets with square ones.
 JessKO
Joined: 1/18/2005
Msg: 17
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Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!
Posted: 2/5/2005 2:18:40 AM
You know what always bugged me....
The idea that the closer you got to God--- the more the Devil would bug you.

Why couldn't your life be BETTER and it easier to avoid the Devil as a blessing for being close to God????


Plus all the fear mongering in general re: the Devil.
Made him sound more powerful than God on some days.
 JessKO
Joined: 1/18/2005
Msg: 18
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Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!
Posted: 2/5/2005 2:21:40 AM
I remember seeing some article online about the Jews TECHNICALLY being polytheists (belife in more than one god)

The devil was the evil god banished from heaven and God was the good most powerful God.
The article made comparisons to other myths and evil gods falling from heaven.
 FauzWuzHere
Joined: 8/26/2004
Msg: 19
Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!
Posted: 2/5/2005 2:24:43 AM

You know what always bugged me....
The idea that the closer you got to God--- the more the Devil would bug you.


Not sure about that. Its possible. I mean, it would be a strategy to shake your faith. If he can turn you away, then he's got one more.


Why couldn't your life be BETTER and it easier to avoid the Devil as a blessing for being close to God????


Ask and ye shall recieve. I think in prayer, you can fend off most of his attacks. But only if you ask. "Non shall pluck you from my father's hand." If you believe, Satan can try to pluck you all he wants, but ultimately, it is you that has to jump out of God's hand for Satan to win.


Plus all the fear mongering in general re: the Devil. Made him sound more powerful than God on some days.


Yeah, I mean.. don't get me wrong, Satan is just that... Satan. Evil incarnate. But, he works within God's boundaries. There are things that Satan has to ask permission from God to do. God is ultimately in control, always.
 FauzWuzHere
Joined: 8/26/2004
Msg: 20
Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!
Posted: 2/5/2005 2:28:09 AM

I remember seeing some article online about the Jews TECHNICALLY being polytheists (belife in more than one god)

The devil was the evil god banished from heaven and God was the good most powerful God.
The article made comparisons to other myths and evil gods falling from heaven.


I'd be interested in reading why they thought this. Jews believe in one God. Jews and Christians come from the same line. Not sure how this can be confused, but I know mormonism believes that we will become our own god when we die. Like there is a council of gods in the heavens.

Only one true God as far as I know.
 JessKO
Joined: 1/18/2005
Msg: 21
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Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!
Posted: 2/5/2005 2:59:41 AM
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina/monotheism.htm
 jimi77
Joined: 7/13/2004
Msg: 22
Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!
Posted: 2/5/2005 3:17:06 AM
GOD is not in the business of creating robots.. He gives his creation free will. Satan seen GOD in his full glory and still used his free will to turn on GOD.. Being created the most beautiful angel.. He got full of pride and wanted all the glory for him self..

You see the same thing in people.. (NOT ALL) but many really pretty people think there better then others for the sake of there beauty. we call them stuck up or snobs. and it dosent have to just be pretty people.. it can be anything.. people who are smart and so on.

I agree, Satan doesn’t care if you believe he exist or doesn’t.. He only cares that your away from GOD and don’t believe in GOD. Much like a jealous ex he wants to take everything away from GOD that he can, and destroy it..(his children) knowing this is a way to hurt GOD.
 ScottMorfitt
Joined: 11/20/2004
Msg: 23
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Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!
Posted: 2/5/2005 3:22:55 AM
I agree that Lucifer made the choice to give up his post as choir leader of the Heavenly Hosts due to his thought that he could become as great as God. But, I still maintain that Satan had to become Satan for God's plan to unfold. But, this leaks into an older debate of predestination versus free will.
 jimi77
Joined: 7/13/2004
Msg: 24
Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!
Posted: 2/5/2005 3:34:32 AM
^^true.. that is a whole new can of worms LOL!
 ScottMorfitt
Joined: 11/20/2004
Msg: 25
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Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!
Posted: 2/5/2005 3:45:07 AM
So,
Here is my question about Satan. He is Lucifer, a fallen angel. Does this mean that he has the same powers as an angel, or, does he have more control over the world than other angels.
Show ALL Forums  > Religion  > Explain to me Christians, About The Devil!