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| why do nice guys finish last
Posted: 4/11/2006 12:29:20 PM | | when i first got married it wasn't for love but because she was pregnant so I tried to do the right thing and before long we were married. We started out with nothing well I had an ok job and she just didn't want to work or do anything, but watch our daughter. That was fine with me as well so I started working harder and smarter and i guess spending less time with them and more at work . I brought us our first house and was beginning to work on buying us a second home, because I wanted my daughter and wife not to have to strugggle so much. now we are getting a divorce and we are both ok with it but she told me she never wanted to be rich just just wanted to be happy, but she is now asking for all this money because she don't want to be rich. I will give her every penny she ask for because she is a great mother and we will bring our daughter up right or as right could be i guess. looking back at everything now we are total opposites and i guess we both always knew it but we tried for as long as we could to make it work. so now i have to date again in order to cuddle or just talk with females or go dancing and i am very social so i guess it won't be to hard but it suck and i feel like if this was a race to happiness i just lost. but i guess we were never really happy so i was always a loser :-(...... my new life is i wake up at 6am play tennis when i am in the mood and i didn't wake up at 4am configuring servers and computer crap. so if any woman wants a loser i am here. | |
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| why do nice guys finish last
Posted: 5/7/2006 12:20:18 AM | | I think you need to turn it around, your view that is. For every door that closes, a new one opens. Perhaps you weren't as happy as you could be. It is costly raising a child and when 2 people split, the child's needs are the same. I feel for you in terms of cost, but it is a risk we all take when we have children. She will have to find a job now. Your goal now is not to settle and find the person that really fits your personality and lifestyle. Go have some fun and find whatever positive prespective you can. | |
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| I love Right4you06's answer...
Posted: 6/1/2006 10:32:47 AM | I would like to add, stop asking yourself that question. Instead, ask yourself "How can I find the most wonderful person who enjoys being with me and really fits my personality and lifestyle?"
Ask yourself that question 1000 times (or how ever many times it takes for you to take the actions of finding that person). You will be amazed with the answers that you come up with.
Up 'til now, you've been asking yourself "Why do nice guys finish last?" Are you amazed with the answers you've come up with? This may sound like an Anthony Robbins infomercial, but the technique of "asking yourself better questions" works extremely well for turning bad tables around. | |
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| why do nice guys finish last
Posted: 8/5/2006 12:09:07 PM | | HAVE YOU EVER NOTICED how the not so nice guys, never make any progress, it just seems that way. Don't worry about finishing last. No one gets anywhere, it's all smoke and mirrors and I can assure you that everyone, and I do mean everyone, with no exceptions, gets exactly what's coming to them, and I do mean absolutely everyone, no one ever gets away. | |
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| why do nice guys finish last
Posted: 9/4/2006 1:22:08 PM | You know why nice guys finish last? As a nice guy I will tell you. We find a woman who we feel is the right one. All goes well and we do all that we can to make and keep her happy. We go through hoops for her. Only to find out she is playing you. I had a relationshio where I was or thougtht i was making her happy and then she turned on me. She accused me of flirting with women onthe net and even went as far as accusing me of meeting and screwing women I spoke to on the net. Nothing was further from the truth well almost. You see it was not me doing all this it was her. When I fond out and asked her about this she acted as if nothing happened and the next day I got served with an "Order of Protection" asking me to keep away from her and to get out of my own home. That is how a nice guy finishes last. It cost me a job a home a relationship not to mention money. I am only glad we didn't married for it would have been a messy divorce because she would have lied the whole time. Did I mention she was divorced and the reason for her divorce from her ex was for the same thing. He was a nice guy with the wrong woman. To bad I never saw that when I met her.
Many years before that there was a girl I was crazy about and she knew it. We were frineds but that was all it ever was. She met some guy and I guess fell in love. She was 16 and got pregnant from him. He was the nieghborhood punk and was always introuble with the cops. She had the baby and thought that he would turn around his bad ways. Not only did he not turn around he had a gun and a year later was in a shoot out with the police and lost. Here she was at 17 with a baby and all alone. All her friends warned her but she didn't listen. Now had she had been with me things would have been different but this guy ruiend her for life. I ran in to her about 10 years later and she was selling her self on the streets for $20 THis was in the mid 80's and the last time I ever saw her. | |
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| why do nice guys finish last
Posted: 9/16/2006 2:37:43 PM | | Nice guys finish last, because very few people appear to be a good judge of good character. I try to be polite everywhere I go, I try to strike a conversation with people who appear to be eligible, and if I ever get through to anyone who is even eligible, 9 times out of 10, they usually have a problem so profound that it is a burden for even the nice guys to handle. The people I've been able to associate with are the autistic, the manic depressive, the starving artists, the players who think they can handle two relationships at once and not hurt either one in the opportunity to make the date into something. At least I've found myself a niche in some good concert halls to go to, hiking clubs to walk on, places to volunteer, places to play frisbee, and book clubs and vegetarian meetup groups to join too. So far I'm finding lots of nice things to do and make my time worthwhile, though the idea of taking on someone else would be much better if I can find someone else who has an equally balanced life that I do. Then it won't seem like it is a non-mutual relationship, where one party has to make so much more accommodation than the other. I'm happy to make some accommodation, though much seems to be like I have to be the one who alone pushes the relationship forward. I don't want to do that. I think the woman should share in that task. And in that, I am a nice guy. And yet, it seems all either want me to introduce some sort of one liner that says I can read their mind, or they want me to be so socially skilled that I'd have no time for them in the first place! I'm an optimist, even with the feeling that it is going to take something of a miracle to find me a woman to be with permanently. | |
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| why do nice guys finish last
Posted: 10/4/2006 5:21:37 PM | As a proverbial "nice guy" who's always been a straight arrow in that I've never lied to a woman, never cheated on a woman (including in a stormy 8 1/2-year relationship), and one who's always been a romantic, i.e., have written songs and poetry for girls, taken them on picnics, taken them to musicals, et cetera, I've mostly gotten my ass kicked for my troubles over the years.
This is because that each generation since the Great Depression of 1929 has proven less cultured and less mature than its immediate predecessor. (This is an American phenomenon, and it's made me seriously consider seeking out a girl from South America, where they aren't so cold-bloodedly materialistic as they are in Southern California.) My parents, who understood the value of a commitment and -- from facing possible starvation during the Depression -- became well-grounded realists as early as high school. The genuine face-off with Survival matured them almost immediately, and their sober-minded, no-nonsense grasp of the value of a relationship enabled them to survive a 56-year marriage (until my father died 2 years ago). It wasn't always pretty, but they worked through the worst of it and valued each other for who they were. There was nothing superficial about it.
The average girl today comes out of adolescence confused and insecure -- often in need of a therapist. (Guys are a little better, but not by much.) Because I grew up with a sister and have always had a lot of gal-pals, I've gotten to hear much of the -- frightening -- way women think about themselves and men.
When they say that "nice guys finish last," it's worse than that: nice guys aren't even invited to compete in the first place. Half the time, a girl doesn't pull her head out until she's all but ruined her life from her own brand of superficial choices (almost always choosing an a-hole) for boyfriends and husbands, had a couple kids, gotten divorced; and ultimately forced against their wills to recognize that the emotional beatings, abuse, and overall selfishness/neglect they suffer at the hands of a-holes isn't worth the excitement, intrigue, and "mystery" these knuckle-dragging troglodites titillate them with.
If you can find a "nice" girl who wants a "nice" guy without having gone through all this dysfunction, you've won the lottery, and you can take that to the bank.
The problem firstly relates to "The Caveman Theory," of which I ascribe to. A-holes and Alpha-Males have the most confidence (mostly because they love/hate themselves so much). They don't hide their best aspects from shyness or humility. Think about your last job interview: do you think the quiet, humble person who is a great worker but kind of shuts down when all the chips are on the line has as much of a chance as the vibrant, confident B.S.-er who acts like he knows everything? And who gets the majority of promotions? The quiet worker that kicks ass? No. Most of the time the people who get the most promotions and the power positions are not the most qualified, but rather, the ones who are the best at working the system and climbing ladders. The best workers are too busy quietly busting their asses to bother kissing up and schmoozing at all the right moments.
Girls are no different than prospective employers: if you act like you can do it all, they'll believe you, even if it's obvious you're full of crap. People WANT to be lied to, because they are basically greedy and gullible: they want to believe they can have their cake and eat it too. And if a guy is a good con man and convincingly insists he can give her the moon, she'll give him the chance to prove it (while the nice guy, who doesn't rate as well by comparison for being honest and realistic from the get-go) is often benched to the sidelines while the jerks make their fake promises and then ditch the girl after they've gotten all the tail they came for. Sincerity doesn't count for much when a girl is in her 20s.
But back to "The Caveman Theory." These lunkheads, from their arrogance or narcissism project some sense of POWER. A woman wants to feel safe and protected (as I've gotten older and women have grown up, I have repeatedly heard women say "I feel so safe in your arms." I've almost laughed each time given that I'm not a macho or tough guy, but I didn't say anything to contradict this sentiment, because they need to feel SECURITY based on perceiving some manner of POWER from me, however it happens, whether it be from my physical nature, financial success, position of prestige, social status, or intellectual accomplishment. So I accept the compliment and recognize it means I've earned their approval in a meaningful way that has opened the door to an exclusive relationship if I want it.
What women don't understand, is that the qualities that gel to create raw sexual chemistry and charisma to draw them to a man don't necessarily have the substance to fulfill the needs of a legitimate, monogamous and loving relationship on a daily basis, indefinitely (the frosting is not the cake supporting it).
It's the difference between how great advertising makes a hamburger look so big, tempting, and delicious that it seems that even just one of them could keep you content for a week, whereas that skinny little patty with the smushed bun that's only half as big as you thought it would be is the reality you're purchasing. Women buy into the con man's PR, and keep going back for more, figuring that one day there will be truth in advertising, that there really is a romantic hunk who will cater to them and never once have a wandering eye.
The mistake the "nice" guy makes is believing that truth begets justice. In court, if one lawyer can tell a lie better than the other can tell the truth, the lie wins -- every time. So the same with women. And to make it worse, after being a sucker for every selfish man-child she falls for, a woman then waxes cynical, believing all men to be creeps. And THEN the nice guy gets a date, but then he ends up paying for the crimes of everyone who has come before him. (Because when you're waving booty around, you don't have to be fair-minded, because one thing girls learn by the age of 9 is that men are easy -- men corrupt women before they're old enough to realize what they've done.)
I once had a gal-pal who said "men suck!" (It's not the greatest compliment for women to be so comfortable around you they forget you're not another girl, but so be it.) I chastized her, saying "It isn't that men suck -- it's that YOUR TASTE IN MEN SUCKS." You keep attracting the same dorks who duplicate all your father's flaws and give you misery. If you don't change, things remain the same." So she took my words to heart and went out with a "nice" guy the next time she dated. He turned out to be the man she married -- and they've been happily married for over 5 years now.
RECAP: the first problem comes from where a girl's expectations arise: a girl must be impressed with a demonstration of POWER on some level that is meaningful to her.
The second problem is based on her desire to be a "nester," or in other words, to "nurture." Just as many women have an internal directive to reproduce and nurture their young (notwithstanding the changes in this from contemporary equality in participating in commerce nowadays -- the instinct is there, regardless).
This impetus makes them want to mother their men. This is just fine -- but it goes over the top, to a rediculous, destructive extreme. I can't count how many of my gal-pals have come to recognize that their choice of mate is based on finding a guy who is an obviously defective fixer-upper, who they think NEEDS them to turn them into the upright, well-adjusted and decent people they were not when first meeting their heroines on white steeds.
I have told such gal-pals that this is an act of stupidity: instead of spending all your relationship time cultivating the gift you wanted for Christmas in the first place, you should be spending your relationship time without the DRAMA this creates and just enjoy how great it is to be together. Go places, do things -- live life, for God's sake.
I have also chastized them, scorning this attempt at playing Mother Theresa by asking "What about your not having a penis causes you to be born with a Ph.D. in psychology; and what arrogance makes you think that these losers you pick up from the pound have actually been waiting for you personally to pull their brains out of their heads and remold them to your private satisfaction and then place them back in once your little art project is done? Has even ONE guy you've -- unsuccessfully -- tried to convert to the religion of YOU ever ASKED you to do this to them? NO? So how do you expect to find success in this kind of environment? Just as a girl isn't a sex toy, a man is not a therapist's toy either.
My final advice? Look for someone who's in their 40s and has finally grown up and is actually a mature woman. If you can get luckier and be appreciated by someone younger then you have been blessed. And I hope that one day you are, my friend.
And to all women who are younger than 40 and are mature: the world thanks you -- we need more of you desparately. | |
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| why do nice guys finish last
Posted: 11/16/2006 10:51:21 PM | BeatlesFan, you said it all. Very insightful and intelligent. If only more women listened to you, nice guys wouldn't seem to finish last all the time.
Red Devil | |
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ahgshg
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Joined: 1/25/2007
Msg: 11 | |
| why do nice guys finish last
Posted: 2/3/2007 5:44:47 PM | | nice guys dont finish last that is a myth... unless ofcoarse by nice guy you mean no spine. there is a difference between a nice guy and a guy who lets women walk all over him the later of the two finishes last. you can be nice and assertive at the same time, have confidence and you wont finish last. | |
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| why do nice guys finish last
Posted: 2/6/2007 8:45:26 AM | | I can totally confirm that nice guys do finish last. I met a wonderful woman, who had recently left an abusive relationship, we got along so well. We fell in love with each other, and everything was going famously. Until he came back promising change, and offering to get anger management, counselling, the whole works. So what does she do? Yeah, you guessed it, she has all but thrown me out like so much garbage. Just for the dream that he can change into me. So yes, nice guys do finish last, every time, and I see that as a great reason to become a bitter ass. Then maybe I'll finally win. Sick and tired of women using me to feel good, and then throwing me out. | |
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| why do nice guys finish last
Posted: 2/7/2007 9:25:00 AM | BeatlesFan FOR PRESIDENT!
If the nice guys are finishing last, the nice girls are finishing last as well.
Which I would rather finish last, because I'd rather be nice, honest about myself, TRUTHful, not play games with anybody to gain position, continue to date & date & date some more, trying to find ONE person that will be happy sharing last place WITH me.
It reminds me of the story of the tortoise & the hare.
I would be the tortoise.
The hare LOST, because he was****, arrogant, selfish, and thought he was better than the tortoise.
I don't set here thinking I'm god's gift to women, don't care who I step on to get to the top.
Just like my thoughts when I was in the Army. SO WHAT, if this guy can run faster than I can, do more push-ups or sit-ups than I can. He may be able to run faster, but he might not be able to hit the broad side of a barn with a weapon. When facing the enemy, and he's running his butt to the front lines, all gung-ho GI JOE, my slow butt might be dragging him back to safety calling for a medic to SAVE his butt, while picking off approaching enemy because I shot expert in the rifle range.
I'd still rather be the Tortoise than the Hare any day!
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| why do nice guys finish last
Posted: 2/20/2007 7:28:14 PM |
Why do bad guys, game players, cheaters, and liars finish first?
Only because we let them to! We need to teach women a lesson, that their dream man can be here if they want him to be, and they needn't settle for game players. Don't think because Clinton was one, you have to be one too. | |
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| why do nice guys finish last
Posted: 2/25/2007 8:20:40 PM | YOU KNOW WHAT! LOL nice guys arent the only ones who finish last what about those nice girls? for real think about it that way, I'm always considered the guys friend never more, so next time you ask why nice guys finish last? Ask yourself why nice girls finish last too?
Jess | |
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| why do nice guys finish last
Posted: 6/10/2007 12:11:24 PM | hey cheer up nice guys do not finish last. You are evolving. Do you feel crushed? I did once when I lost my true love but I forged ahead like a salmon thrusting onward and upward against the cuurents unbeknowing to me I was getting stronger in the struggle. Does this help? Devy | |
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| why do nice guys finish last
Posted: 6/11/2007 10:40:38 AM | | Ill tell you something bud. You need to drop that nice guy thing, or be more selective in who you show it to. I personally was like that and after a girl I thought was great gave me the lets just be friends talk, and started dating my friend, I knew I had to change. I got the book the Game, Mystery Method, and Single Women are Noodles and Single Men or Waffles and I read up. Now I didn't read that to "seduce" women persay but you need to stop putting the **** on a pedestal. What nice guys do is give girls everything off the bat and they do not have to work for anything and they get bored. I took everything I have learned and my confidence has gone up so as the number of dates, and I can openly talk to women without hesitation. You need to realize that dating is a game and if you lose all the time you are doing something wrong. Now what I am NOT saying is that you need to be a player, you just need to be the CATCH and not HER. | |
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| why do nice guys finish last
Posted: 7/10/2007 9:26:49 PM | Just to let you know red devil. I know your last girlfriend and you aint a nice guy so you have no room to talk about nice guys finishing last. You slept around and broke multiple hearts during your relationships only to leave her holdin all the bills.
Tabby
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| To BeatlesFan
Posted: 7/12/2007 11:45:57 AM | | That was deliciously insightful and on the mark. Bravo. | |
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| To BeatlesFan
Posted: 7/18/2007 5:11:48 PM | | the problem is that everyone thinks they are a nice guy. Getting rejected a lot doesn't necessarily make you a nice guy. Opening doors, pullin chairs out, helping ladies with groceries, playin catch with your kid or someone else's. Those are the nice guy traits that women look for I think. | |
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| To BeatlesFan
Posted: 8/6/2007 7:10:50 PM | | put it like this stop complaining! and do something about it players allways get the women cuz we know there are many other women to get. i mean you dont have to be a gentlemen all the time. im nice and mean and i get my share of women. i was a nice guy then i changed. if you guys ever need help on how to just mesg me. | |
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| why do nice guys finish last
Posted: 8/11/2007 8:53:49 PM | I have to say honestly that this is true. I'll tell my story.
In one month, I will be finally divorced from my ex wife. We were together 12 years, married for 7 of them before we separated.
Now I cannot lie, I contributed my fair share towards the end of our marriage. But in all that time, I never cheated on her, she never had to worry about where I was, what I was doing, or when I was coming home. I signed every paycheck and gave it to her, and whenever conflict arose, I almost always backed down.
I paid her parents mortgage because they couldn't on several occasions. I let her sister and her drug addict boyfriends live in my home, when I wasn't comfortable with it, because they were family.
And when we decided to have a family of our own, and had trouble, she belittled me and destroyed my sense of manhood, even though I was not the source of our infertility. We eventually got lucky and sired a beautiful boy who we both love (in fact, probably the only thing we agree on).
Then, she decided to go have gastric bypass surgery, because she was uncomfortable with her self image. During the time we were together I never said anything about her weight, even though it continued to rise. I truly loved her for who she was, not how she looked. Her own mother was ready to disown her if she had the operation, but I stood by her through it all, including when she was in the hospital and her lungs collapsed, and I thought she was going to die. The day before her surgery she told me that she was going to leave me when she lost the weight. And still, I stood by her and prayed for her safety.
She didn't lie. She started belittling me, calling me fat, and generally pushing me around. My attempts to save things were worthless, and eventually, I agreed to sell our house so we could move to South Carolina, because she wanted to chase her dream and live there. I gave up my career which I loved (I've since returned and am doing well in that regard) for her happiness.
We lived in South Carolina for two months before she left me.
So you tell me, what did being nice get me? 12 years of wasted time and hurt.
I actually don't have any problems with her, our divorce was unavoidable and is very friendly, but if I said it didn't change my outlook on women, I'd be lying.
Since I've been single I've met more than one woman who tells me that I'm "quite a catch...for someone else" or that they just "want to be friends". And while I think having friends is no problem, I have to tell you....it sucks.
So just as an experiment, I've stopped being "nice". In fact, I've been kind of a smart-a** lately. And I have to say, in the two weeks since I've started this, I've had better responses and more interest from women who I would have never imagined would pay any attention to me.
It's been minor changes, just more like me saying smart/crude things, or looking at a woman (I'm a guy, we all look at you, sorry ladies) and not turning away when she sees me looking. I guess I was just acting shy before because I was trying to be polite. Now I don't stop looking and smirk, and I have to say, it works.
I don't think I'll be playing this part long, because it really doesn't feel comfortable to me, but it is nice to see what it's like on the other side of that fence now. And I think that if nice guys in general do this more often, then we're going to lose the whole 'nice guy' phenomenon and have a culture that has nothing but jerks, since that seems to be what women respond to. | |
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