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| Why God is silent? Why Earth? Why Satan? Why damnation? Heaven exists??
Posted: 4/13/2006 8:12:56 AM | 1) Why God is silent?
2) Why God does not show himself to us?
3) Why are we here on earth in the first place?
4) What’s God’s plan behind creating this world?
5) Why God gave so much power to Satan/Evil?
6) Why God don’t eliminate Satan and directly protect us?
7) Why the ever-lasting damnation?
8) Is there really heaven and hell?
9) Why should we have blind fate?
These are the questions – many of us have. Obviously if we knew the answer to these questions without any doubts, our life would have been much easier. And it would have made more sense about our existence and purpose in life.
I have found the answers to these questions in one religion, please read on and I will explain. I am sure similar answers are available in most famous religions; we just need to seek them out.
The main reason many people don’t believe in a God is because they don’t have any proof of an interactive God. This lack of proof has created all the doubts in so many people. So, I had decided to see if the answers are out there (with or without any solid proofs) as to - “why God is silent?”
I am not a religious guy and I have never followed any religious practices in my entire life. But I think I have reached an age to start thinking about answers to my questions in a more profound way. I never knew that the specific answers were there in a certain religion. So, after some research I have found the answers in one religion but I want to consider all theories based on all existing well known religions and see for myself what makes good sense by using plain logic. The one I found makes perfect sense to me but more research surely won’t hurt.
Obviously answers to these questions are not yet available from a scientific viewpoint, so I had to dig into religious teachings. Where else can I find any information regarding these questions?
I picked a particular religion but let’s not mention which religion I referred to - at this point.
I don’t have enough time to check all existing well-known famous religions and their teachings right now, that’s why it would be very helpful to hear the answers to the above questions from different people of different fate according to their own religious teachings.
Please check the explanations that I have found based on the teachings of one well-known religion and kindly tell me of any similarities or dissimilarities to your respective religions.
Though the ages, we usually judge any religion by observing how its practitioners behave. We hardly separate the true teachings of a religion from its so-called practitioner’s own interpretational acts. I don’t think that is a clever way to judge a religion. Practitioners can easily be wrong!! What is there to guarantee that they got the right meanings of their own religion? After all, teachings were passed on through generations and vast amount of time had elapsed since the initiation of all famous religion. We also need to take into account all the traditional influences of a said timeline onto all different famous religion, - so it is easy to understand how a religion could lose its original grounds. Why else then many religion claims to have more than one prophet?
Due to lack of preservation methods and traditional influence, every time a particular religion got distorted, God claimed to have sent a new prophet to show the right way all over again.
Since distortions and misrepresentations through misinterpretations could be happening even these days, it is important for us to look into different religion’s true teachings by disregarding its practitioner’s beliefs and acts. We need to figure out on our own if anything makes good sense.
I am hoping that some of the intelligent people at this forum can provide the basic answers to my questions through their respective religions. If it makes good sense then I want to take a look at its teachings myself in more depth. This is why I am asking everyone to share his or her views. I would like to hear everyone’s version to the questions I have outlined at the beginning of the post.
Religious teachings are primarily based on faith. They don’t have any concrete proofs to support them. That’s why it is easy to disregard all religion and not believe in any God. But we need to ask ourselves – “If we were wrong then are we better off by not believing?”
I think it is better to believe in a God and have faith in a super power entity because not believing can take you to all the wrong places.
Let me give an example why blind fate could be better than having no faith --- Imagine if all the people in a love-relationship didn’t have faith in their significant other and doubted their every move --- what would have happened in that relationship? Everyone would be following their girlfriend or wife around until they catch them cheating. Correct? There would be chaos in every relationship. So, my point is --- sometimes we need to give benefit of the doubt and have faith when it is the civil thing to do and this faith could provide a peace of mind. Without any good reason if you don’t have faith in your girlfriend/wife then you will unnecessarily create trouble in your relationship. Similarly, I believe, having faith in God provides stability in our lives. If we believe someone is watching and we could get punished for our wrong deeds then it will always help us stay on the right track.
Please feel free to reply with your version of teachings regarding those questions at the beginning of the post. I don’t care what religion it is coming from. If there is valid logic in them, I want to look into more details of its teachings.
Here goes what I have found according to one religion. It may sound like a story but it is actually based on a religion. This religion pretty much answers all those questions as well as other related questions that we may have…
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A few billion years ago in God’s kingdom, God created all the creatures (our soul but not the body) at the same time (simultaneously).
All these souls (a creature in a form of eternal existence) used to worship God without questioning his absolute authority (‘his’ as in gender unspecific regarding God).
Everything was cool for the longest while. All these souls had mind of their own, meaning they had their own judgments and own reasoning powers and own rational thoughts. That’s how God created us.
Just like in the working atmosphere of this world, a boss gives more power and authority to those he/she might like because of their true and complete devotions to them and because of the goodness and quality of their work. God had also liked the current Satan for his earlier extreme devotions. So just like in today’s world where the President assigns a ‘chief of staff’ or a mayor assigns a ‘police chief’, God had given some authority and preference to this previously devoted ‘Satan entity’. Somehow with his extra God given ability, Satan developed an arrogant idea that he too can run an independent dominion beside God. A classic case of what power can do to one’s mind. So he began asking the rest of us there to see if we believed in him. Yes! We were all there in our soul form.
This apparent challenge to God’s absolute authority was offensive to God and those who even considered this and agreed with Satan’s claim --- did also make God very angry.
While the mass majority of God’s creatures disagreed with Satan, yet the number of souls of the inconsiderate minority that agreed with him in various extents was in billions. So a rebellious challenge was made within the heavenly community, which was quickly resolved by God in the most efficient manner. These rebels were given sufficient chances to denounce their crime of questioning God’s absolute authority. Some immediately repented and asked for God’s forgiveness but some others wanted to see proof from God for thinking otherwise. After God ‘showed’ what they asked - they too repented.
However, God decided to exile the hard-core rebels from his immediate kingdom. But since God is merciful, a second chance to redeem themselves was thus initiated by God for the repented rebels.
This is when God decided to create this galaxy and this small planet called earth and gave Satan the power to overlook these rebels and try and keep fooling them. Since those who believed the Satan also later realized that they had made a mistake (only after God’s intervention) --- everyone on the wrong side was given a second chance by coming to this world in this physical body without previous memories of that event. Here they could try to redeem themselves for the second time and in a more proven way. As I already mentioned - some realized their mistake early but others realized it too late. So there was difference in the extent of the rebellion among the entities and so were their punishment.
In this world we are supposed to disregard Satan’s crooked ideas and believe in God’s just and absolute authority with the limited knowledge and signs that are available to us. Because many of us don’t know this background, it all seem like God is playing a game by keeping quiet somewhere out there and watching us. In reality, there is a reason behind all this.
God decided to provide us at certain time certain scriptures to let us know what this world is all about. This life of ours is all about the second chance to redeem ourselves as well as a punishment because here we have disease, accidents, wars, pain, chaos, misery, torturous deaths and many more earthly bad things. So if we see a good person suffer in inhumane way, we should not quickly blame God because we don’t know why God punished him in this world, it could easily be the extent of his rebellion in his previous life, or it could be a multiple of things. God knows that person and his previous soul better than you and me.
The Adam and Eve’s forbidden fruit story is true but it is part of a plan that already was in motion. God already knew the future and past; he already knew about the rebellion, he already knew about the Adam’s forbidden fruit incident. Rebellion took place before Adam’s forbidden fruit incident. Many of us believe that we are here on earth because of Adam and Eve’s forbidden fruit incident.
It is illogical to believe that all of Adam’s descendants would be punished for just eating a fruit. So obviously there was more to it than that. Individually we are punished for our rebellion prior to that forbidden fruit incident. Later when (initially) Adam and Eve were put in Heaven, that’s where Satan proved that he is even worthy of this expedition of fooling the mankind without actually showing his appearance. This is where he proved that he could undertake his role in God’s plan for our second chance of redemption. This time Satan was allowed only to work though our minds because anyone would believe in his more profound powers easily unless God directly intervene again (like he did last time). So God didn’t want to make it that easy for him this time.
Just think, if God came directly in front of us while no other entity showed that their power is greater or that they didn’t acquired their power from the same God then how many of us would question him for the second time? So what is the point in that for God? Seeing him in front of our eyes and believing won’t prove that we repented for being fooled the last time. Would it??
So what I am saying is that --- obviously if God came in front of us and show his power as he did that last time then we will immediately believe in him. I am sure all those who don’t believe in God at all --- will quickly change their mind because the proof will be too apparent to ignore, right??
In our previous soul state, Satan had fooled us by showing us his God given powers, but it will never work again a second time especially with our memory intact. Because God already showed us that he is the absolute power that last time last time when we rebelled. So a different scenario was needed for us to prove ourselves with no memory of the last time.
Hence this world was created with so little direct proof of God’s oneness or even any direct existence of God. We are already in a punishment state (like in a jail). What more can we want??? Good behavior and trust and repentant attitude is the only way to get a quick dismissal and forgiveness for our earlier sin. Otherwise some of us will head for hell for some more punishment and the rest of us who are more evil, will get hell for eternity!!! Yes! An everlasting damnation!!!
After the dispute in God’s earlier heavenly community, the residents can be classified in four groups; they are as following…
A) Angels:
Creatures, who never questioned God’s authority and never believed the Satan. Vast majorities are in this class. Only an unspecific number in billions believed otherwise and they fall in group b, c and d.
B) Creatures that quickly repented:
When God intervened; some rebels quickly changed their minds and repented. They didn’t wait for God to prove his powers. They didn’t believe Satan that much to began with. They still have to come to this world and perform their punishment for even doubting (for the briefest moment) about God’s absolute authority. But when they die they go back to their original state in the heavens. Most of them come as animals. Depending on how much they doubted, some have short lives as is their punishment and some have longer. But their earthy acts will not be considered for more punishments. Human babies who die early also come to this world for a symbolic trip of their previous crime and once dead they are quickly returned to the heavens.
C) The Humans:
Hard-core rebels who wanted to see proof from God before they accepted God back as the sole power. We are the ‘egocentric ones’. We question everything without proofs, and we fall in this category. Even though we too changed our mind after witnessing God’s proof, but we were condemned not just for believing in a mere Satan as a possible entity on the same scale as God but also for questioning and demanding to see proof from God. Hence our punishment is more severe and our acts on this world count as well. Only by redemptions and believing in God’s absolute authority and by leading a righteous life, we can get back to heaven. Whatever religion we believe in is beside the point. It can only improve our possibilities but not necessarily guarantee anything.
Religion is just like a tool to help us facilitate this goal. Nothing more! If you are a smart person and if you believe in absolute authority of God (one God) and believe in judgment day and lead a righteous life then I don’t see any reason why a person can’t make it back to heaven. That seems to be the mission that every person should have.
Anyways let’s get back to the categories of the heavenly creatures after their dispute. We still have one left and that is…
D) Creatures that were far too gone into believing Satan:
I know this one is also mentioned and this one, we don’t normally see in this world but they are here. These entities were even worst than human souls. They believed Satan’s point of view more deeply. They had the biggest egos. In other words they were worse than us.
In this world, they supposedly roam in a spiritual form and attached themselves in single number to the newly born babies (meaning one for every baby) and then together with the baby’s counterpart human soul, influence the baby’s judgments as the baby grows old. (Some say babies can see them). They stick around until the human dies and the human soul is released from our bodies.
Supposedly this is why we have two conflicting thoughts in our mind. Sometimes, part of us wants to do one thing that is good and the other wants to do something else that is bad. This is why human are so contentious. When a human soul wins in this struggle of this internal contest within his duel-conscience and accepts God’s absolute authority --- BOTH human and his/her assigned counterpart entity makes it back to heaven. This is acquired only when the human soul wins the debate within his head. The evil counter part’s job is what the Satan does, create doubts and put evil thoughts within our heads. The righteous human usually is the one - who successfully wins this debate within his conscience. This is why it is so hard to be good; we are constantly fighting with our bad counter-part within our head.
While creating us, God never wanted Robots that cannot think for their own selves. That’s why we have our freedom to believe what we want. What better way is there to prove our devotions when we cannot directly see God and his powers?? If we are able to prove ourselves in this manner that (probably) even the angels didn’t get the chance to prove, then how great that would be to God. He will then forgive our previous sin and accept us back in heaven.
As I mentioned before, Adam and Eve scenario came later. God already was planning to send these rebels to earth for the due course as our second chance to redeem ourselves. After God created Adam he asked all his angels to work with his plan and do whatever is needed to facilitate humans with this expulsion scenario (i.e. keeping track, guarding, driving winds, and distributing the rain, anything and everything associated to run this universe). Everyone obviously agreed but once again the Satan rebelled. This is when Satan’s banishment started.
Satan asked God and was given a grace period for his eternal damnation in hell. He is free from punishment from God until doomsday. He took an oath to manipulate the human kind as his final curse. And he is doing this for the entire duration of his grace period that ends on the day of our resurrection. God allowed him with this request and thus his journey began to fool people. His job is to take as many humans as possible to hell by whispering in our mind. This is more for his personal satisfaction then anything else because he blames humans for his banishment.
To God these human souls already rebelled once, so he allowed Satan to see how many Satan can convince for the second time by just whispering in our ear. God decided to stay out of this (without his active involvement) until doomsday. That’s when we will meet God again to answer everything. Satan has nothing to lose or gain except self-satisfaction. He is trying with whatever power given to him to take as many of us with him when he goes down.
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Once again I know this may look like a story to many of you but this does answer why we are here on this earth and why God has decided not to show himself. And many other related questions.
You can see that this world is where we are getting our second chance. God has reasons to punish anyone for their current or previous sins. So when we see a good person dying in an unjust manner, we shouldn’t lose faith and start questioning God’s action, because maybe that person rebelled more aggressively in his earlier life in the soul form. There are multiple reasons why God do what he does. We cannot possibly know all his reasons especially because our memory is erased to help us facilitate our second chance for redemption.
Same principles apply to the unborn or newly born. God knows his reasons to punish some people more severely and others less severely.
This world is designed as a punishment place. This is the reason - to many of us - God seem like a cruel entity. We see all the deaths and destructions and start to wonder why God is allowing it! We fail to understand that this world is a punishment place where we are given a second chance to redeem ourselves from our previous sins of questioning God’s absolute authority. We are also punished here for the new sins that we commit.
Those of you, who don’t believe in God or heavens, should at least agree that, this would certainly be one explanation to all those mysterious supposedly unanswered questions. Questions like – “why God is silent?”
As I mentioned - I didn’t have sufficient time right now to research other famous religions. That’s why I am writing this post to see what others have found in their respective religions. I want to see if anyone has found anything to indicate that my findings have any similarity with their religion.
Please feel free to let me know what you think will happen when we die and why are we even here???? Just like what I have here, I want to see if anyone can provide with a more believable scenario. I want to check all the logical scenarios. | |
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| Why God is silent? Why Earth? Why Satan? Why damnation? Heaven exists??
Posted: 4/13/2006 9:00:06 AM | Shadow
"The main reason many people don’t believe in a God is because they don’t have any proof of an interactive God. This lack of proof has created all the doubts in so many people. So, I had decided to see if the answers are out there (with or without any solid proofs) as to - “why God is silent?” "
This is not an entirely accurate statement. Your first statment may be correct but you have to add that the bible displays an active God. It is the display of an active God in the bible combined with an inactive God in reality that has most people turning away from faith.
"I think it is better to believe in a God and have faith in a super power entity because not believing can take you to all the wrong places." Which wrong places are these? You are working under the assumption that you will be correct in worshipping the proper God as most religious people do. No one ever considers that they may be worshipping something that is inherently untrue.
With regards to God and Satan, you have still fallen into the trap as to explain how evil was created. If God created everything and was good, how did Satan manage to pull an evil act out of inexistence?? Where did the evil option come from? How could God being the supreme creator be challenged if He did not give those the ability to challenge? These are extremely fundamental and crucial weaknesses to your religion because it affects the dynamics in relationship between God and his creation. I think you have to go back to the drawing board.
"This is when God decided to create this galaxy and this small planet called earth and gave Satan the power to overlook these rebels and try and keep fooling them." Why would God do that? What was his motive for dealing with an Evil Satan?
"So if we see a good person suffer in inhumane way, we should not quickly blame God because we don’t know why God punished him in this world, it could easily be the extent of his rebellion in his previous life, or it could be a multiple of things. God knows that person and his previous soul better than you and me." This concept is reincarnation, something which is not wholly endorsed by the Christian or Jewish faith.
"He took an oath to manipulate the human kind as his final curse. And he is doing this for the entire duration of his grace period that ends on the day of our resurrection. God allowed him with this request and thus his journey began to fool people. His job is to take as many humans as possible to hell by whispering in our mind." Why would God allow him with this request. He took an oath? So he swore to God that he would do this? Makes no sense at all.
"There are multiple reasons why God do what he does. We cannot possibly know all his reasons especially because our memory is erased to help us facilitate our second chance for redemption."
For someone who cannot possibly know all His reasons, you sure know or are speculating quite a bit. Was your memory not erased?
In my religion, God is not a human entity and does not have human traits. He is a force and a process. He goes far beyond our understanding and transcends the labelling that we continuously give him. God established life on earth through a very long and arduous process. Physical life on earth was meant to be limited from the creation of earth until its eventual destruction. He is the infinite process of starting and finishing - universes imploding and exploding and expanding and contracting in the process. God is a force that is not concerned with morality or ethics - those things being instilled with the consciousness of man. He instilled in man's brain the ability to develop thoughts, ideas, religion, philosophy and science. Also given was the ability to label and understand concepts which were then attributed back to God. Primitive and superstitious man developed ways to understand God/gods better by developing mythologies such as the one that started this post. Fear of the unknown coupled with imagination and creativity saw man create religion.
The only phrase that seems to work for me is - "God is what God is". | |
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| Why God is silent? Why Earth? Why Satan? Why damnation? Heaven exists??
Posted: 4/13/2006 9:13:57 AM |
1) Why God is silent? He is not. Those who have an ear to hear will hear.
2) Why God does not show himself to us? Because He chose not to.
3) Why are we here on earth in the first place? We were created for His pleasure.
4) What’s God’s plan behind creating this world? I will become clearer after this time has passed away.
5) Why God gave so much power to Satan/Evil? He hasn't. We have
God don’t eliminate Satan and directly protect us? He can protect us without eliminating him
the ever-lasting damnation? Don't have an answer.
8) Is there really heaven and hell? yes
9) Why should we have blind fate? I wasn't aware we should have.
The main reason many people don’t believe in a God is because they don’t have any proof of an interactive God. This lack of proof has created all the doubts in so many people. So, I had decided to see if the answers are out there (with or without any solid proofs) as to - “why God is silent?” Tha is probably the main reason, but usually those, in turn, accept something else "in Faith" and without proof.
Though the ages, we usually judge any religion by observing how its practitioners behave. We hardly separate the true teachings of a religion from its so-called practitioner’s own interpretational acts. I don’t think that is a clever way to judge a religion. Practitioners can easily be wrong!! What is there to guarantee that they got the right meanings of their own religion? Good point. | |
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| Why God is silent? Why Earth? Why Satan? Why damnation? Heaven exists??
Posted: 4/13/2006 11:35:50 AM | Okay! Let me try to clarify some points…
By tim4925:
“So do we have free will or not?”
Yes, we do. As I mentioned – God did not want Robots. So even in our soul form we had free will to believe what we wanted. That is why many of us considered Satan’s suggestions in the first place.
By robertj64:
“This is not an entirely accurate statement.”
Regardless of what religion you believe in, IMO in no religion a godly person ever claimed to be God himself. In order to deliver the revelations – it was necessarily at times to perform miracles. But the sole purpose was just to reveal the truth and just let everyone know what this world is all about. The primary reason for all revelations was just to let people know about our second chance for redemption.
By robertj64:
“Which wrong places are these?”
These days without anymore Prophets in sight - pretty much all religions are based on blind fate. My point was between the options of no fate as opposed to fate in God – I think the believer would be less likely to commit sins.
Imagine yourself as a thief and you are in a store. Now if you believed there are cameras watching you then you will less likely steal because you will worry about getting caught. I know this is a bad example but my point is – people who believe in God also believe they are being watched while they commit a crime. If their fate is deep then they usually refrain themselves from indulging into sinful activities. I am not saying that people who don’t believe are bad but only that they have one less reason to be afraid of being watched thus refrain themselves from committing sins.
By robertj64:
“With regards to God and Satan, you have still fallen into the trap as to explain how evil was created. If God created everything and was good, how did Satan manage to pull an evil act out of inexistence?? Where did the evil option come from? How could God being the supreme creator be challenged if He did not give those the ability to challenge? These are extremely fundamental and crucial weaknesses to your religion because it affects the dynamics in relationship between God and his creation. I think you have to go back to the drawing board.”
Well, according to what I have found – Satan/Evil was not created as an evil entity. There was a time this entity was actually a very devoted creature of God.
God even gave him extra powers, just like a boss might give to an employee some extra authority and powers in a working atmosphere.
Satan’s extreme devotions also had pleased God in the past before he got his arrogant idea. God banished him when he turned against God’s wishes.
He didn’t challenge God, he wouldn’t stand a chance. He just fooled us into believing that he too can run an independent dominion.
Later when he refused to go along with God’s plan to give us second chance to redeem ourselves, he was banished and condemned to everlasting damnation. However he begged for some grace period and was granted by God. So now he is trying to take as many of us as he can before he goes down. But he is only allowed to whisper, he is not allowed to show himself and fool us with more intense ways. God could have send Evil straight to hell but what better way is there to see if we could be fooled a second time by this entity? If God show himself to us then obviously we will believe in him. What is the point in that? Since we are creatures with freewill to believe what we want, what is a better way to check our faith without direct proof? If we believe in God and his absolute authority in this fashion then we can redeem our previous mistake. Can you think of a better way to accomplish that?
By robertj64:
“Why would God do that? What was his motive for dealing with an Evil Satan?”
To give us a second chance to redeem ourselves. As I said – God could have send the Evil straight into hell but by giving him this grace period, we can also be tested a second time with indirect intervention of this evil entity. If we can win in this challenge here on earth and die believing in the oneness of God and lead a righteous life and believe in the judgment day – then we can successfully redeem ourselves. This world is like a challenge, it is our second chance.
By robertj64:
“This concept is reincarnation, something which is not wholly endorsed by the Christian or Jewish faith.”
No! This is not reincarnation. IMO reincarnation means rebirth, re-embodiment, recreation and this could be multiple times. BUT here it is not the same because in our case we only come to this world ONCE. Our soul were made at the same time. We just come here in a body to receive our second chance to redeem ourselves. This is a one time opportunity.
Please check your respective religion and see what it says about creation of souls. If your religion says that souls are made individually as the babies get born then there will be difference between our versions. What I found is that all souls were made by God at the same time and the drifted off rebels souls are now kept in a repository. We are coming one by one to this world in human body to try and redeem ourselves in our second chance. Once all these souls have made their way to earth – resurrection will take place on the judgment day. That’s the day we will face God again and Satan/Evil will be thrown into hell for everlasting damnation.
By robertj64:
“Why would God allow him with this request. He took an oath? So he swore to God that he would do this? Makes no sense at all.”
Well! Why would God give us a second chance to begin with? He could destroy anything and everything that rebelled or show sign of any disrespect. What kind of God that would be? A ruthless dictator God??
God is kind and forgiving. Satan was a devoted creature once, so God gave him some grace period. This also works for the bigger plan to see if we would rebel again. So, to make our second chance take its course – God let Satan have this grace period before he is punished.
Satan blames us for his banishment, so he is doing what he can to take as many of us to hell as he possibly can. It is really not that difficult to understand Satan’s motives and it is also not that difficult to know - why God even allowed Satan with his expedition.
Twobits45: Your answers are good except#5.
How did we give power to Satan/Evil?
Yeah! By listening to him but that doesn’t explain how he gets in our head and whispers. That ability was given by God.
God decided to see if he can fool us again but this time with less power than before. He had more power to fool us with when he was a devoted soul.
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| Why God is silent? Why Earth? Why Satan? Why damnation? Heaven exists??
Posted: 4/13/2006 12:06:34 PM | Ahh such an ordinary thread.
I'll answer your 9 questions in a moment, but first I would like to say that the definition of Freedom seems skewed when your punished for exercising that freedom. (ie Satan challenging god's authority)
1) Why God is silent?
If he never existed or no longer exists that would explain it.
2) Why God does not show himself to us?
See point 1.
3) Why are we here on earth in the first place?
Because our mommies and daddies loved eachother very much.... well, some of them anyway.
4) What’s God’s plan behind creating this world?
To make people to worship him. Why else create lower creatures?
5) Why God gave so much power to Satan/Evil?
Whose to say it is not us mortals who gave him such power?
6) Why God don’t eliminate Satan and directly protect us?
See point 1.
OR
What is living if you can't be hurt?
7) Why the ever-lasting damnation?
To scare the children.
8) Is there really heaven and hell?
Tell me when you get there.
9) Why should we have blind fate?
Because if you don't, you'll realize that you are unable to make a purpose for your life and kill yourself. | |
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| Why God is silent? Why Earth? Why Satan? Why damnation? Heaven exists??
Posted: 4/13/2006 12:19:22 PM | "God even gave him extra powers, just like a boss might give to an employee some extra authority and powers in a working atmosphere.
Satan’s extreme devotions also had pleased God in the past before he got his arrogant idea. God banished him when he turned against God’s wishes. "
Let me be a little more clear. If God was all good and created all good, how did Satan get an arrogant idea? Did evil suddenly appear out of nothing?
Let's look at your statement a little more closely - "Satan’s extreme devotions also had pleased God in the past before he got his arrogant idea. God banished him when he turned against God’s wishes. "
Have you noticed here that you are speaking in finite terms and not infinite terms. Satan "had pleased God in the past" cannot be if God is operating outside of time. My question - does time happen on the spiritual realm?
You have further confirmed my suspicion that Satan is not labelled evil at first. Ok if Satan was not evil and God was not evil, how does evil come out of nowhere????
“Why would God do that? What was his motive for dealing with an Evil Satan?”
"To give us a second chance to redeem ourselves." If God is everything opposite of Satan and likewise there would be no possible coordination or cooperation. I would think it would be like two sides of the magnet working together when all they know how to do is repel each other. | |
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| Why God is silent? Why Earth? Why Satan? Why damnation? Heaven exists??
Posted: 4/13/2006 5:23:26 PM |
God already knew the future and past
Interesting thread Shadowdancing, I enjoyed your fresh comments.
Here is what I think about you logic. It is impossible for someone to know the future unless that someone knows what we are going to choose. This means that we could say that we still have free will if that person were not our designer and our creator. But since our creator knows where our future lies that just means that our designer designed us that way. That said because we were designed a certain way that makes our chooses accurately predictable then we are designed to choose certain ways, therefore we haven't got real free will or we would not be predictable in our decisions, by God.
Here is where the paradox lies, we would not have a perfect creator if He/She didn't know exactly what we were going to do all the time. This seems like common sense to me now.
So “free will“…well it depends on what you call “free will“. If I'm just making the chooses I was designed to make then I just don't see how one can really refer to that as free will entirely. Do you have any idea what I'm saying, no one else here seem to understand. I understand and I guess, that’s just the way I was designed, lol. | |
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| Why God is silent? Why Earth? Why Satan? Why damnation? Heaven exists??
Posted: 4/14/2006 8:04:46 AM | To all non-believers: (people who don’t believe in the of existence of God)
For lack of direct proof - all nonbelievers have chosen the easy way out. It is difficult to research and believe in a religion but it is easy to say – “I don’t believe anything”. This is why I say non-believers have taken the easy way out.
Well, I have no problem with you if you don’t believe. It is your decision. I just have one question for you…
“When you die and find out that there is God and there is heaven and hell, what would you do?”
You won’t be able to reverse time and come back to repent. Right?
But on the other hand when a believer dies and if he finds out that there is nothing there, then everyone will be on the same boat. So what is your advantage by not believing? If God is there then imagine the difference between a non-believer and a believer. This is the simplest reason I can think of for believing, it put a believer in an advantageous position. I know this reason is stupid but it does show the advantageous position the believers have over the non-believers!!!
To Robertj64: Okay! Let me ask you a couple of questions…
Where do you think Satan/evil came from? Who created him? Was he always Evil?
If you read my initial post fully, you will see my answers to these questions. I just want to know what you think.
By robertj64:
“If God was all good and created all good, how did Satan get an arrogant idea? Did evil suddenly appear out of nothing?”
Do you think hell is good? But God created it, right?
When a tiger eats a baby goat, do you believe evil is entirely behind it? Is Evil controlling the tiger too? Or does the tiger just eats because God gave him little intelligence and basic instincts of survival?
Remember, this world is a punishment place. Punishments happen with or without evil’s intervention. And punishments are not necessarily all good. Punishments are not heavenly.
God created our soul simultaneously. It is my understanding that Satan/evil was also created at the same time. He was not bad in the beginning. But all of us were given freewill to decide what we want to believe. God did not want robots or computer operated beings. Just look at us now and decide why it would be any different back in that spiritual form I talked about?
Do you believe angels are robots? Did they not question God about the need for this second chance that God gave us? According to what I have found, the Angels expressed their opinions to God and mentioned that there is no need to give us second chance. However God decided to give us second chance anyways.
God gave everyone ability to question him (like in a civilized conversation) but crossing the line and rebelling is where the trouble and punishments begins.
All these souls that God created had mind of their own. We had our own rational thought. When there is ability to think for ourselves, there is always room to drift away with wrong rationalized ideas. God created us in a way that we could drift away like that if we so choose. We were created in a way to develop whatever way we choose. Many of us drifted off and became egocentric.
When Satan/evil was a devoted being, God gave him extra ability. With this extra ability his ego was boosted up. So he tried to fool us by believing he too can run a dominion beside God.
So you see, God created us with freewill and some of us crossed the line with this ability. We misused our freewill and took ourselves the wrong way.
Anything meant for goodness can be reversed and used in an opposite way, especially when God gave us the power to distinguish the difference.
If God can create hell and all the bad things in there then why would you limit yourself to think that all he ever created is good? There are some bad stuff that was created for our punishment.
Ask yourself, why all the prophets had to endure sufferings while trying to spread the revelations? If Evil was behind it then why God didn’t stop the tortures?
By robertj64:
“Satan "had pleased God in the past" cannot be if God is operating outside of time. My question - does time happen on the spiritual realm?”
Time may not work with the same rhythm in God’s kingdom but it exists. How else do you measure punishment time? Do you believe anyone going to hell, will stay in there forever with no chance of forgiveness?? It is my understanding that hell is not a permanent place for many. So, if some souls will be forgiven after some punishment then how do you measure that time?
What about judgment day? Do you believe God will judge everything in a timeless scenario?
I am not sure where you got the concept that time doesn’t exist in spiritual realm. It exists but not in the same fashion like here on earth.
By robertj64:
“You have further confirmed my suspicion that Satan is not labelled evil at first. Ok if Satan was not evil and God was not evil, how does evil come out of nowhere????”
I just explained this. Evil is a relative term. If we know what is good then figuring out the opposite is not rocket science. We are created with this instinct. We know what is good and what is bad. God gave us the power to distinguish the difference.
Eating forbidden fruit was wrong and evil but all it took was a little conspiracy theory and a little convincing. Once Adam and Eve ate it, they committed a sin, because they didn’t listen to God.
Satan was created with the same instincts. He was not bad in the beginning; he let his extra powers get to his egoistic head. Later, he blames us for his banishment, so it is easy for him to give us evil thoughts. He is using his God given ability in wrong ways to manipulate us.
There are many manmade things that were made for good purpose but they can be used in wrong and bad ways (i.e. gun, car, computer, drugs --- any of these things can be used in evil ways but they are meant for good use). Similarly a good trait can be reversed and used in the opposite way. God created us in a way to be able to do that if we so choose.
By robertj64:
“If God is everything opposite of Satan and likewise there would be no possible coordination or cooperation. I would think it would be like two sides of the magnet working together when all they know how to do is repel each other.”
Now, let’s see if I can clarify this.
There is no need for coordination or cooperation. God is not coordinating with Satan.
This is an automated world (our punishment place and a place for our second chance). After God made earth and later made Adam and Eve and so on – He asked his Angels to work with his plan and facilitate us (the rebels) with this expulsion scenario (God ask Angels to help with anything and everything to run this universe). God himself decided to stay out of it until judgment day. Of course this world is running with God’s supervision regardless who is doing all the little works.
Evil has limited powers to fool us here; he can only whisper his temptations. Angels are taking care of all other necessary things to make sure the world is running smoothly (i.e. driving the winds, distributing rain, keeping track of everything).
This world was created to give all the rebels who doubted God’s absolute authority a second chance for redemption. This is the place where we get our second chance as well as get punished (look at the diseases, accidental deaths, torturous deaths, chaos, misery, pain, wars, danger and so on).
So you see, since evil is working with limited powers and the rest is taken care of in an automated fashion by the angels, - there is no need for God to get actively involved. On judgment day we will meet God again and answer everything.
Don’t get me wrong! God is watching everything but he decided not to get involved directly right now.
If a super power entity came down to us and declares himself as God by showing proof of his powers then everyone will believe in him. What is the point in that?
Anyways, so God is not working together with Satan. Satan is just trying to take as many of us as he can with him when he goes down on the judgment day. God is merciful, so he allowed this because it also works with this greater plan, where we try to redeem ourselves. So our faith could also be tested in this process.
By tim4925:
“ So “free will“…well it depends on what you call “free will“. If I'm just making the chooses I was designed to make then I just don't see how one can really refer to that as free will entirely. Do you have any idea what I'm saying, no one else here seem to understand. I understand and I guess, that’s just the way I was designed”
I think I have explained this concept in this very post in my reply to robertj64 but let me explain again. God created us with rational thoughts and intelligence to understand right from wrong. With our debatable conscious and contentious nature, we are the one who misuse God given ability and take ourselves to irrational grounds. Our conscious is not governed by strict parameters; it is not controlled like computer software’s abilities. We can cross the lines if we so chose.
Just because God can see our limits and where we can go doesn’t mean he programmed us to go that direction. Let me give an analogical example…
You can create a remote control car and release it on the ground on automated performance, it can go straight or back or even left or right. It can hit a wall or stay on course by itself. It you could give it conscious of its own, it can even self-destruct. Just because you have another devise to see the future and see that the car would self-destruct, doesn’t mean you programmed it to self-destruct. It only means that it chose to do that. Similarly you are given conscious to do right or wrong. Just because God can see the future and see that you will destroy yourself doesn’t mean God programmed you to do so. It only means you chose to misuse God given ability to betterment or perverse yourself. Think about it and you will see what I meant. | |
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| Why God is silent? Why Earth? Why Satan? Why damnation? Heaven exists??
Posted: 4/14/2006 8:22:58 AM | Shadow
You still have not answered the question properly. You have defined God as an all loving person and entirely good. READ CAREFULLY - Where did the Evil come from? If there was no evil at the beginning....just God...we can agree on that right.
Then God creates Lucifer and gives him free will.....STOP there for a minute. Free will implies here that you have the choice to do good or evil. Where did the evil option come from if God was good to start with????
The moment you introduce free will you are introducing the option of evil. Do you see the problem. I have read your two long posts and neither of them addresses this problem. It only addressess the after-the-fact - God creating hell. Irrelevant.
In order to convince me of the rational of your mythology, you must show how evil came into being with the creation of free will.
Once God made free will, he introduced the option to do evil. Try and get around that one.....just try.
Everybody agrees that before free will, it was impossible to do evil because God was all good. So try and explain this. | |
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| Why God is silent? Why Earth? Why Satan? Why damnation? Heaven exists??
Posted: 4/14/2006 8:49:36 AM | Oh shadow
To all non-believers: (people who don’t believe in the of existence of God)
For lack of direct proof - all nonbelievers have chosen the easy way out. It is difficult to research and believe in a religion but it is easy to say – “I don’t believe anything”. This is why I say non-believers have taken the easy way out.
Well, I have no problem with you if you don’t believe. It is your decision. I just have one question for you…
“When you die and find out that there is God and there is heaven and hell, what would you do?”
You won’t be able to reverse time and come back to repent. Right?
But on the other hand when a believer dies and if he finds out that there is nothing there, then everyone will be on the same boat. So what is your advantage by not believing? If God is there then imagine the difference between a non-believer and a believer. This is the simplest reason I can think of for believing, it put a believer in an advantageous position. I know this reason is stupid but it does show the advantageous position the believers have over the non-believers!!!
You are absolutely right in that it is a stupid reason. And any god that likes that kind of fingers crossed behind your back trickery, isn't someone I want to worship anyway.
Also, any god who would damn me for eternity simply because I refused to believe he existed is also someone I wouldn't want to worship. I'd throw my lot in with Satan then and help him crush Heaven and Earth. | |
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| Why God is silent? Why Earth? Why Satan? Why damnation? Heaven exists??
Posted: 4/14/2006 8:51:46 AM | Interesting theory Shadowdancer, but you never specified it was only for believers. I would also not classify all non believers as ignorant. You'll find the majority of them to be learned, educated people who came to that conclusion by intelligent deduction.
I have a question for you.
“When you die and find out that there is NO God and there is NO heaven and hell, what would you do?”
I've studied Christianity, Buddhism, Islamic, Hinduism and many others. I have yet to be convinced any of these are remotely accurate. | |
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| Why God is silent? Why Earth? Why Satan? Why damnation? Heaven exists??
Posted: 4/14/2006 9:29:26 AM | Shadow
"But on the other hand when a believer dies and if he finds out that there is nothing there, then everyone will be on the same boat."
Exactly, so let me come over to your place and kick your ass NOW just in case the non-believers are right and you caused all this BS for nothing. | |
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| Why God is silent? Why Earth? Why Satan? Why damnation? Heaven exists??
Posted: 4/14/2006 10:21:19 AM | To robertj64:
I thought I already explained this. Let me try again…
You didn’t explain what you think evil is and where he came from. It would be nice to hear where you stand on this issue.
What is Evil? The answer to this is not simple if you just ask straight up. The word “evil” can be used as an adjective or as a noun. As an adjective it generally means something morally bad, harmful, devilish, malicious, something that causes misfortune and so on.
But as a noun it could mean a harmful force or entity, a harmful thing and so on.
What do you think punishments are? Are they good or evil? So when God will punish someone in hell – is that an evil act on God’s part?
When a judge condemns a serial killer to death – is he also committing a sin? So you see when a Judge orders a death penalty or any punishment – it is not considered a crime. Although the same act can be looked upon as sin when a killer takes someone’s life.
The adjective version of “Evil” is just a state of mind that has crossed the intended parameters and gone to the opposite side of goodness.
When God created us he gave us the ability to figure out right from wrong. Whether we took ourselves to the opposite side or not – we had the ability to do that. Satan initially introduced us to this negative side.
Just like “goodness” – “evilness” also has no limits. The more we travel in this lala land, the more evil we can get. We cannot blame God for giving us this ability of freewill. To have a balance of conscious, it was necessary to create a scale. If you want to travel to the wrong side of the scale then that is your choice but you are advised not to do that.
Okay that was the “adjective” part of the word “evil”.
Now if you are talking about Evil the Satan or Lucifer then I have already explained that he too was created with freewill. When he was in heavens and when he was good – God gave him extra powers. With that God given power he chose to boost up his egos and decided to take himself on the wrong side of the scale. He chose to rebel, he chose to object to God thus he defied God.
God banished him from his kingdom and condemned him to hell. He asked for a grace period and God allowed it. Now he chose to take his revenge by his limited ability to fool us. He chose to turn himself an opposite of all that is good and he chose to try and convince us through whispers in our mind to do the same. Maybe he has some stupid idea that if he can take many of us on his way, God might change his mind and forgive everyone evil or maybe even give another chance to all those evil including him. He knows God is forgiving; hence he is trying to make his point.
So, God is good but he did create us with freewill to understand “good” from “bad”. Adam knew eating the forbidden fruit was wrong but he chose to eat anyways. That incident alone shows that we are made with our own rational thoughts and freewill to decide what we want to do.
By Dave:
“I'd throw my lot in with Satan then and help him crush Heaven and Earth.”
So you believe in Satan!!!! BUT not God??
You would rather give yourself to Satan than God? You have fate in Satan and you believe in your destiny with him.
I am not sure what you have against God, but you surely seem to favor Satan and help him crush Heaven and Earth. That is some powerful statement you made there. I hope you know what you are talking about!! Your wish of joining the Satan might come true but Satan will be condemned to hell for eternity after judgment day. And he doesn’t have the power to crush Heaven or Earth; otherwise he would have already done so. So be careful what you wish for.
By Scheherrazade:
“I've studied Christianity, Buddhism, Islamic, Hinduism and many others. I have yet to be convinced any of these are remotely accurate.”
All I can say is continue your research and you will get your answers. Judaism, Christianity and Islam, these are the primary religion you need to concentrate on. I don’t know the basis (origin/foundation) for the other ones you mentioned.
By robertj64:
“Exactly, so let me come over to your place and kick your ass NOW just in case the non-believers are right and you caused all this BS for nothing.”
I thought you are an intelligent person. That example was just to show the advantageous position the believers have, nothing more. If a non-believer is right and there is no God then he should be happy that he is not spending his time in believing, there is no reason to kick anyone’s ass for that. | |
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| Why God is silent? Why Earth? Why Satan? Why damnation? Heaven exists??
Posted: 4/14/2006 10:46:12 AM | | You do not know the basis of other religions yet you are going to tell me which ones I should research???? Isn't that a bit arrogant and condecending? I've read several versions of the bible and consulted with theoligians. I've read the Koran and discussed it in depth I'm not sure why you think your knowledge is more extensive than mine, but I at least recognize your right to believe what ever you want and not recommend that you have not studied enough to discuss the subject. You asked our opinions on your questions. We gave them and you do not like our answers. Next time I'd suggest you specify in your post you only want christians to answer. | |
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| Why God is silent? Why Earth? Why Satan? Why damnation? Heaven exists??
Posted: 4/14/2006 11:20:16 AM | By Scheherrazade:
“You asked our opinions on your questions. We gave them and you do not like our answers. Next time I'd suggest you specify in your post you only want christians to answer.”
What opinions you gave regarding my questions? You said you haven’t found anything convincing. So I told you IMO information is there in those three religions. It was merely a suggestion. I am not sure why you took the way you did.
I don’t know how much you have researched because you have not shared anything here. Your one line comment that you haven’t found anything convincing is not enough for anyone to understand the depth of your knowledge.
I never said my knowledge is more extensive and you have not studied enough. You have not contributed fruits of your knowledge (at least) in this thread. I have no idea what your thought are regarding my questions.
If you know the answers to my questions from the “Buddhism” or “Hinduism” then please share them with us here.
By the way my post is not for Christians only, as a matter of fact that is not the religion I consulted even though there are many similarities with that religion.
I wanted to hear the answers from different fate but I got only couple of one line answers. Rest of them are pretty much unrelated to my initial nine questions. | |
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| Why God is silent? Why Earth? Why Satan? Why damnation? Heaven exists??
Posted: 4/14/2006 11:45:22 AM | Shadow
I am well aware of what you think "Evil" is and you have gone to great lengths to define it for us however, I am only concerned with the birth of evil. That is the only topic that I am talking about so let us stick to that only please.
"When he was in heavens and when he was good – God gave him extra powers. With that God given power he chose to boost up his egos and decided to take himself on the wrong side of the scale. He chose to rebel, he chose to object to God thus he defied God.
God banished him from his kingdom and condemned him to hell. He asked for a grace period and God allowed it. Now he chose to take his revenge by his limited ability to fool us. He chose to turn himself an opposite of all that is good and he chose to try and convince us through whispers in our mind to do the same."
Please stay with me on this debate so we can talk about the exact point of time and issue. When Satan was in heaven and when he was good....that part we are ok with right? Stick with me now...because up to this point there is no evil...
THE MOMENT YOU SAY SATAN CHOSE.....stop! .....freeze! ....halt........ok....in this particular point of time....Where did the choice to choose evil come from?
I don't care about what happened afterwards, I want to know from the point that Satan was made and all was good...to that very point where he chose.......WHERE DID THAT OPTION COME FROM?
This is what you cannot answer properly and if I have to make you face this particular moment to explain it...confront it...that exact moment of time....
Be precise in your answer because I am extremely precise here ....if you want to talk about the special powers that God gave him go ahead but confine your answer to this precise issue I am talking about. | |
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| Why God is silent? Why Earth? Why Satan? Why damnation? Heaven exists??
Posted: 4/14/2006 2:15:11 PM | Your exact phrase was:
these are the primary religion you need to concentrate on.
Of which you choose Christianity, Judaism and Islam as the primary religions I need to concentrate on? I stated that I had studied many and did not find any of them accurate. Obviously if I have come to that conclusion and still have not come about to your type of thinking, you think I need to concentrate on your preferences.
Now do we need a show of hands on how many in here could not figure out I was a non believer after reading my first post? I thought it was rather obvious when I came in to their defense and stated after all my studies I still came to that conclusion.
Why don't you study some more and maybe you'll come to the same conclusion that all this is myth and learn to make this life count and quit worrying about the next one. | |
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| Why God is silent? Why Earth? Why Satan? Why damnation? Heaven exists??
Posted: 4/14/2006 8:28:47 PM | With all due respect-you can make this life count AND have an interest in/be concerned about the next one. In fact, the two 'states of mind' usually quite compliment and enhance each other, IMO.
Hey Shadow, I don't think a lot of your accrued philosophy is nearly off the mark as many on this thread seem to think. IMO it has **some congruances w/ a lot of metaphysical beliefs i.e. the earthly realm as a form of, uhh, 'exile' for former 'spiritual (or other existence(s)) indiscretions' as well as learning experiences and a chance(s) at redemption...etc. Keep searching...and, yeah, it actually would be a good idea to incorporate some knowledge of Hinduism, Buddhism etc into your search, also (IMO). Good luck... | |
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| Why God is silent? Why Earth? Why Satan? Why damnation? Heaven exists??
Posted: 4/15/2006 2:39:01 PM | Shadowdancing, wow, so many questions.
First, God is not silent, he is a God of revelation and constantly reveals things to his servants the prophets for us. And now for the why earth. Yes, we did exist long before we entered mortality on this planet, you are correct, but not as punishment. This earth was created expressly for us, for we are his children. It is the learning time. (I'm not giving scriptural references at this time, but would be glad to look all this up, if you need them) This time in mortality is strictly temporal, as all things are here. Yet, we are eternal beings.
Satan, a spirit also, who cannot enter mortality was cast to this earth. He provides opposition in all things, and without knowing the bad, we cannot learn, nor understand the good. Satan's punishment for his rebellion was the fact that he , nor his followers could enter mortality. They can never have a physical body. Bad things do happen here, many from our choices. Remember though, we are on a temporal earth at this time, ruled by natural laws.
Heres the thing;, if we seek good, obey our Father in Heaven, pray diligently and with a sincere heart, he will reveal many things to us. We shall also succeed at our second estate, our time in mortality.
I'm sure you realize that mortality is a very short time, seemingly endless when we are young, but understanding how very short it is as we get older. Eternity is something we cannot comprehend now, for our minds are not capable in our present state.
My words to you are this, Keep thinking, praying, pondering, I think the answers are here. I applaud your openmindedness. Oh, and the reason we are here, I want to add that before I close. We came for a body, we need a physical body in heaven, we needed to learn, we needed to be able to comprehend the great joys awaiting us. We needed to fulfill the commandments given to us.
Hope this helps somewhat. | |
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| Why God is silent? Why Earth? Why Satan? Why damnation? Heaven exists??
Posted: 4/16/2006 8:09:00 AM | By robertj64:
“THE MOMENT YOU SAY SATAN CHOSE.....stop! .....freeze! ....halt........ok....in this particular point of time....Where did the choice to choose evil come from?”
I am not sure why you are stuck on this issue. I have already pointed out that God created all souls with mind of their own and absolute freedom of choice. God never wanted Robots, an entity that would just worship God without any conscious. There is no point in creating a doll with exact fixed behavior, especially when the all-powerful God could create us with mind of our own.
I have already pointed out that if we were made to understand the good and the right way then figuring out the opposite was not rocket science.
“Doubt” is what helped Satan initially to take him to the wrong direction. His arrogance and egocentric mind with all his doubts – helped him cross the line and fully bloom as an evil entity. Satan was the first one to go in that opposite direction of all that is good. It all started with simple doubts within his thinking process.
When God banished Satan and condemned him for ever-lasting damnation, Satan asked for temporary grace period. God approved it and allowed Satan to be a temporary representative of the opposites of all that is good on this world. Angels questioned this motivation of God and asked God why would he allow a drifted off evil entity with such a task to work with the disbelievers. The angels even mentioned that this decision by God would only cause confusion and shed blood and spread Satan’s way of thinking which was evil. God’s response to this was that – God has his reasons and that Angels do not know what God knows.
God wanted to see how many of this already rebelled entities will go astray for the second time. With our memory erased and with this fresh start, God gave us our second chance to prove ourselves.
So you see, we all were born with the knowledge of right and good. We were also born knowing what the opposite of good could be. In God’s immediate kingdom we refrained from thinking in the wrong direction. But egoistic Satan with his doubts was the first one who chose to bring up the question of God’s absolute authority. Some of us believed him and also started doubting for a brief moment. With this doubt we chose to take our thoughts to evil and wrong direction. And thus “Evil” practice was initiated. It all started from simple doubts. Just like there is no limit to goodness, there is no limits to evilness. The initial traits that caused Satan to go the wrong direction was his doubts and his egocentric and prejudice nature. With his extra God given powers, he thought he was better than the rest of us. Later he figured out how to lie, so that he could entice us into believing in him. Now he has bloomed fully into the Evil entity. In this world he has even learned to hypnotized the unbelievers through simple whispers. So, in a way you can say that – God gave us the ability to go the wrong direction. But this doesn’t mean God instructed us to do so. As a matter of fact we are supposed to do just the opposite and practice only that what is good.
Hope this clarifies how Evil started. If it doesn’t then I don’t believe I am qualified to explain it any further. However, you can always open a new thread and ask more qualified and intelligent members on this site. I am sure someone may be able to give you the answer you are looking for.
By Scheherrazade:
“you think I need to concentrate on your preferences.”
NO, you don’t need to listen to my suggestion. It was simply a suggestion. Please ignore it if you may!!
You have your right to believe what you want. I just said - answers are there in those three religions. Just because you didn’t find anything convincing doesn’t mean it is not there. End.
To LilNikki:
Thanks for your post and thanks for your suggestions.
To Elphaba108:
Thanks for your input. I hope more people will provide their thoughts like you did.
Anyways, when I said God is silent, I meant that we don’t see him on a daily basis. If we had an interactive God then everyone would believe in him. I know about God’s plan. I do know about the revelations. My initial post is based on a particular revelation. | |
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| Why God is silent? Why Earth? Why Satan? Why damnation? Heaven exists??
Posted: 4/16/2006 10:08:09 AM | | You misunderstand me shadow: I believe in neither. But if I'm wrong, when I stand before god and he looks at me and says "Well, you've lived a good life, but since you didn't believe in me, off to hell with you" then at that moment I will have something against him and work with whoever I can to fight god. Because any god who condems you for simply not worshiping him isn't a god I feel should be worshiped. | |
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| Why God is silent? Why Earth? Why Satan? Why damnation? Heaven exists??
Posted: 4/16/2006 2:40:51 PM | I haven't read the entire thread, but I thought I'd tackle your questions from my POV...
1) Why God is silent?
God isn't silent; we're just too busy to notice. We're not paying attention; we're too bombarded with the daily pieces of life to actually notice when we're being guided and helped.
2) Why God does not show himself to us?
God does show Him/Herself (I believe in both) constantly. Again, we're just too busy to notice -- and it's not in obvious "apparition" ways, which I'm assuming you're getting at. Wouldn't that be nice, though? But I believe that would make things easier for us. I think we're all here to learn, experience, and grow, particularly spiritually. If we all had HARD evidence (as in God standing before us and science backing it up), so many would not follow their own spiritual path and learn the crucial lessons along the way.
3) Why are we here on earth in the first place?
To learn, experience, and grow (luckily, we don't have only ONE chance at life). Our only jobs on earth are to love and survive life itself (without medicating ourselves with drugs, heavy alcohol, etc). Unfortunately, we seem to grow most from the most difficult periods of our lives -- which is why there is negativity in the first place.
4) What’s God’s plan behind creating this world?
I believe it's to give us the best opportunity to grow. How can we better ourselves (for ourselves, not for God) and learn in Utopia? Furthermore, we will definitely have a greater appreciation for the Other Side once we've faced hell on earth. As for what God's plan is after we're finished -- I haven't the slightest idea.
5) Why God gave so much power to Satan/Evil?
I don't believe in Satan at all. Nor do I believe in hell. But evil is a necessary force on earth; it aids us in our own personal growth. Unfortunately. :p
6) Why God don’t eliminate Satan and directly protect us?
We're more protected than we think...I've got four guides and a handful of Angels with me at all times (a few more come in when needed). When bad things happen in my life, it's because it's supposed to. I planned all the details of my life before I incarnated -- the good AND the bad. The reason? I was drunk (well, I must have been. Over-confident is more like it)! :p
Satan doesn't exist. He was created in order to gain control. Amazing the power the myth of Satan has had over mankind, eh? (For those who disagree, that's fine. I have no proof Satan is a myth other than what my guides tell me and my own feelings, but on the flipside, you have no proof he does. The Bible is not proof.).
7) Why the ever-lasting damnation?
A loving God would NEVER condemn anyone to ever-lasting damnation. Even Hitler, who I believe should experience even a few centuries experiencing the pain he inflicted. I believe God created those we call evil in order for us to gain experience. My personal belief is that those like Hitler will be absorbed back into God, no longer having their own individuality, but also not being tortured. Love and damnation do not go hand in hand, and I believe God is the definition of love.
8) Is there really heaven and hell?
Heaven absolutely exists. Hell is just a myth used to gain control.
9) Why should we have blind fate?
We shouldn't!!! This is the part of religion that drives me insane (and I was raised Catholic). We were given our own minds for a reason; we should never rely on anyone or anything -- including supposed "sacred texts" -- to tell us what to believe. That is what makes organized religions "cult-like" in my opinion. Do your own research -- there are pieces of truth out there. I suggest reading various texts, etc., taking what you agree with, and leaving the rest behind. The result is a very individualized spiritual belief and more peace than you've ever imagined.
We all have the answers within us; we've just got to go searching for them.  | |
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