| What is it with the Mormon thing
Posted: 4/25/2006 5:56:01 AM | Ok...now I may not be a practising member anymore and do not believe a lot of there beliefs anymore but OMG some of the things I have seen in here about the Mormon religion are ABSOLUTELY REDICULOUS...and ...lemme clarify, it is called The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints
I was curious as to the WHERE some of you are getting your information from and what you might "think" you know. For those that are/have been members that "think" doesn't apply, but to the others....I am really curious. 
Anybody.... | |
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| What is it with the Mormon thing
Posted: 4/25/2006 6:02:54 AM | | I don't claim to know much about them except they have an A1 Genealogy site. I do not even know that much about Joseph Smith except only one of the offshoots from him are the Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Other than Donny and Marie Osmond, I am not sure of what else I can tell you on the subject. I will keep reading here to find out more....perhaps you can enlighten us? | |
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| What is it with the Mormon thing
Posted: 4/25/2006 6:07:15 AM | | lmao @ Robert...in other threads...I have on a few things. I went into another thread and was reading another trashed reference to Mormons and was like OMG! It is amazing what people really think of them. That is when I made this thread to see what people say...sheesh, and if they actually put anything here. | |
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| What is it with the Mormon thing
Posted: 4/25/2006 8:34:20 AM | allh2h, my comments on Mormons (which it was ok to call them just a few short years ago) comes from history classes I've taken on the religion, my own personal reseach, and from having LDS friends.
People are going to tell you what they've experienced on these threads. I think there are a lot of different sects within the religion. Some are into polygany etc. while some totally reject these ideas. So I think that is why you've read various things here that may or may not line up with your experiences with the religion.
But please feel free to share your take. There are very few people here who have belonged to that religion for any period of time. So I'm sure there are many who would like to know more about your experiences. | |
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| What is it with the Mormon thing
Posted: 4/25/2006 9:46:11 AM | Blue:
I think there are a lot of different sects within the religion. Some are into polygany etc. while some totally reject these ideas. So I think that is why you've read various things here that may or may not line up with your experiences with the religion.
There are numerous spin offs of the Mormon religion and on the name part, it is not preferred. They put up with it, but they do not particularly like it. It is more personal preference with some. With my family, hence my dislike of it too, it is not a favorite. I use it for typing sake because it is easier to type, lol. The spin offs of the church are in no way actually associated with the church. You have so many of these "sects", some are gays and lesbians, some are still practising polygamy and numerous other things that I have seen. They are not main stream Mormonism. Not the one based out of Salt Lake City, UT (even though most are still in UT), that has numerous Temples and so forth all over the world. That is where the rumor mill and it all gets jumbled and it is really sad. Because for as much as I find fault with the Mormon religion it is Christian based and what I have see written about it here is not the Mormon church I was baptized into and that my family was raised in, going back to Brigham Young.
They do believe in the Holy Trinity, that is one of the first things that you learn about, it blows me away how many times I have seen that...omg.
The gays and lesbians...NOT...that is about as ANTI-Mormon as you can get. I have a cousin that is gay and he was excommunicated because of it and I am the only member of my family that will associate with him. His own father would not have anything to do with him and when my Uncle died and my cousin showed up at his funeral, he was escorted by the police out of there. Another problem I have with the religion, I think that is just plain wrong. He was sealed to his family in the Temple as a boy and they had the seal broken when he came out and would not "revert back to being normal."
Polygamy, it was outlawed by the church years and years ago, I would have to look up the exact year but if anybody is curious I will. Might take me afew days but I will if you'd like. I am still kinda touchy about this religion, I feel in some ways it is misunderstood and bashed in ways it shouldn't be. It was my saving grace years ago, so as much as I find fault in it, I will defend it to the end The reason it was there to begin with is because of the Mormons take on marriage. For those that do not know that it goes as follows: There is a civil ceremony, which is not a justice of the peace in a courthouse. It is with the bishop in the church house where you go on sundays to worship or in a garden, etc. In it, it states in the vows "till death do us part" When you are married in the Temple, or sealed it is for an eternity, not death parting you. So when you die, in the after life you go on to have a life with your spouse, parents, and the rest of your family that you are sealed too. Back when the church was just starting the only way a woman could go through the Temple was through marriage, which meant it took a man. There were more women then men, so they made it where a man could take more then one wife so women could have the opportunity to have children and have an afterlife. Right? Maybe, maybe not. But that is the WHY that it was created, not some sorted twisted sexual game that it is today. When it was outlawed some men did not take to kindly to it, or women for that matter having already adjusted to that life so you have the spinoffs of polygamous sects today that say they are mormons when they may consider themself that, but they are not associated with the Mormon church.
Ok, my son is being a tyrant...ugh, brb lol | |
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| What is it with the Mormon thing
Posted: 4/25/2006 10:21:17 AM | All
I am a convert to the LDS church who investigated most faiths in my search, and I too find it amazing the things I see written that we 'believe' that are just ridiculous. But the same happens to other faiths, see the recent vilification of Islam due to their radical element.
As with most "anti" anything sites, the authors are usually either folks who know nothing but their own propaganda or those who left or were excommunicated and are bitter. No institution run by men is perfect, so neither is any church including the LDS, although I do believe most of our lay clergy really try to do their best and seek their answers in prayer.
MajMike | |
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| What is it with the Mormon thing
Posted: 4/25/2006 10:45:39 AM | I've done some research...
There are enough "Escape Mormonism" or "Ex Mormon" sites on the web that provide quite the interesting look at the religion. Those who know very little on Mormonism, check it out. Some of the things mentioned will baffle you.
What I find interesting is that so many who leave the LDS church become hardcore Christians. Melissa's Mormon Experience (google it) is an interesting example. | |
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| What is it with the Mormon thing
Posted: 4/25/2006 11:04:35 AM | allh2h, for having once been a member I am surprized that you wrote that the LDS believe in the trinity.
Their word for the trinity is the godhead. And they do not believe in the trinity. They do not believe that the three personages are "one" single immaterial spirit. They believe that God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are three different, seperate spiritual beings but are one in purpose and thought, for how they think alike as they all strive for the same goal, righteousness. | |
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| What is it with the Mormon thing
Posted: 4/25/2006 11:42:31 AM | | I agree that many faiths have wierd stuff in them. I saw a special on Larry King about Mormonism two saturdays ago and it just made me alittle ill to see what some of those people do and support and claim to be as true. I must say that Polygamy is just not right and the doctrines which the Mormons preach just doen't square with the Bible. | |
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| What is it with the Mormon thing
Posted: 4/25/2006 12:52:23 PM | Mardio
No less weird than all the mass slayings in the old testament. I am moving soon into your neck of the woods. Perhaps we can talk about this ..who knows? | |
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allh2h
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Joined: 3/23/2006
Msg: 13 | |
| What is it with the Mormon thing
Posted: 4/25/2006 10:45:44 PM |
Their word for the trinity is the godhead. And they do not believe in the trinity. They do not believe that the three personages are "one" single immaterial spirit. They believe that God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are three different, seperate spiritual beings but are one in purpose and thought, for how they think alike as they all strive for the same goal, righteousness
I believe I stated above, it might have been in another thread though. I was taught by both the Elders of the Church before I was baptized, in classes that I took before I was baptized and a class that you take the first year after being baptized about the Trinity. They do refer to it is as a Godhead but it is also called the Trinity. Prior to my introduction to the lessons of this church I had not learned it anywhere else. So I will state again, they do teach that. I was taught that they are one in the same but can have different purposes. Whatever the situation my be required of them. | |
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| What is it with the Mormon thing
Posted: 4/25/2006 11:28:34 PM | If you had elders, missionaries, etc., teach you that the trinity and the godhead were the samething, you weren't being taught the real Mormon doctrine. I am 48. I have been around the Mormons since I was 16. Half my family is LDS and active. One relative was in a bishoprick. I have been around their different chapels in a few states and I have never ever heard an individual say, or read nothing on their website that verifys what you say of their teaching the concept of the trinity. Maybe you ran into some real unlearned, maverick mormons. That could explain what was taught to you.
Please refer me to a site that is LDS or an individual who is LDS that will confirm what you have stated of their still teaching the trinitarian concept. I trully wish to learn of this. I need to teach them their own doctrine to correct them. Their offical web site talks against the trinity concept if you read talks by their elders. So you won't find your information there. I just printed info from their site to learn more of their doctrine of the godhead by William O. Nelson. He spends 5 pages trying to explain the difference between the trinitarian belief and the godhead belief LDS people hold to. | |
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allh2h
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Joined: 3/23/2006
Msg: 15 | |
| What is it with the Mormon thing
Posted: 4/26/2006 1:02:05 AM | Where I remember mine coming from the most was my bishop the elders and a book that i received from the class that I took right before I was baptized and right after you are baptized. I have no idea where that book is though, I think it might have gotten thrown away. My soon to be ex is very anti-anything I loved so he threw most of my stuff out. The church does not even publish that book anymore. I was supposed to give it back but I lvoed reading it so I never did. If they teach it like that then it has changed since I have stopped going to church, and that has been many years ago. Unlearned maverick mormons, well no, they are people that grew up in the church and go back to Brigham Young. The Elder that taught me and baptized me his family goes back to John Smith days if I am remembering correctly. My uncle is actually a decendant of Brigham Young and my step-fathers family dates back to one of the original members. So where I get my information comes from the Mormon church. As to a web site...I have no clue, after I deleted mine I really do not keep up with biblical web sites. I have just been digging for a biblical scripture and my head has been spinning from looking for it only to really find nothing. I'm afraid you would have to do that yourself if you want. I can email my sister and nephew and see if they can tell me something though...that is the best I can do.
Why don't you post in here what you have found? I would like to read it, ok? And whatever I get back from my nephew and sister (my nephew just got back from his mission) I can put there info out here too, ok? Sound like a plan?  | |
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| What is it with the Mormon thing
Posted: 4/26/2006 3:55:12 AM | I need to agree with allh2h about the Trinity. Although I am a Pagan, half my children chose to walk the Latter Day Saints path, and I will defend the Mormons in their Christianity. They use the same bible, the St. James version, as most Christian faiths, and they have added scriptures found at a latter time, such as The Pearl of Great Price...a very interesting read. Also the Book of Mormon, translated from the plates by the descendants of Nephi, and both of whom are saints by all accounts of Christian history. The Ten Commandments were more than likely not the only plates...I figure if one believes that God created the Earth, and populated it with his people, then plates can be anywhere...even here in the U.S.
As far as polygamy goes, it is not just the past rules of the Temple that brought this about. So many of the men were murdered, that other men married these women to take care of them as what they believed a message from God. Be fruitful and multiply...it takes 3 women to every one man to repopulate, I think polygamy was a survival technique to their religious beliefs. Do you not believe God when he speaks to you? If you speak with your minister, priest, or what have you, do you not put faith in his/her words? Do they not speak as a vessel or conduit of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost for the most part?
The polygamy stopped as part of the original line of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints when the message was received from God that it was no longer needed. There are now enough men to keep one woman as his helpmeet. Besides speaking with my adult kids, I also asked the Bishop of the local branch...and they feel what I have shared is correct...so I hope I did not offend anyone.
Everyone has a right to choose their spiritual path...I do believe that one of the lessons of Christianity is to judge not lest you be judged. I feel that everyone who is safe in their spiritual center and does no harm is practicing to the fulfill their soul. But if you are going to say something about another religion, please ask questions of the elders and bishops and priests and ministers...whomever, hate and judgement are two of the worst words in any language.
Be at peace, Eala | |
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| What is it with the Mormon thing
Posted: 4/26/2006 8:19:27 AM | "I NeHi, being born of goodly parents..."
I read the Book of Mormon years ago at the request of a Mormon friend.That's all I remember.Must not've been impressed.
Actually that's not quite true.The history part of people from the Middle East crossing the ocean and coming to the American continent thousands of years ago is quite fascinating.I have no idea on how accurate that history is or could be.Any Mormons here want to expound on this? | |
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allh2h
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Joined: 3/23/2006
Msg: 18 | |
| What is it with the Mormon thing
Posted: 4/26/2006 8:32:40 AM | Out of all of the books The Pearl of Great Price is my favorite read personally.
I am working on finding out the Trinity and Godhead thing, the person I asked was half asleep, he started to answer me then snored and kept on talking so I am going to wait until he is more awake. | |
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allh2h
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Joined: 3/23/2006
Msg: 19 | |
| What is it with the Mormon thing
Posted: 4/26/2006 8:39:50 AM |
I agree that many faiths have wierd stuff in them. I saw a special on Larry King about Mormonism two saturdays ago and it just made me alittle ill to see what some of those people do and support and claim to be as true. I must say that Polygamy is just not right and the doctrines which the Mormons preach just doen't square with the Bible.
If there was a mormon up there saying that they were ok with polygamy then they are not associated with the mainstream Mormon church. So please keep that in mind, ok? It is not practised anymore and those that do still are excommunicated from the church if they do not stop. What there view of the after life might be distorted too if they are still practising polygamy along with how they view Jesus Christ. SO I cannot comment on that. So please do not condem the rest of the Mormon religion for some fanatics that "claim" to be mormon when, if the are still practising polygamy, I can guarantee they are NOT members of the mormon church. | |
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| What is it with the Mormon thing
Posted: 4/26/2006 9:31:27 AM | | The belief in a Godhead comes through revalation from Joseph Smith. The common Christian belief then as it is now is that God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are three all powerful, immaterial three in one spiritual essence. It would be like me being myself and my two children. Yet I could have the power to be my two children at anytime. Thus they did not exist except when I became them instead of myself. But I could retain being myself while being one or both of them. That is what the trinitarian belief is all about. The LDS belief is way different. So different that it is rejected by most of Christianity. Even if it holds weight for reasoning. The LDS believe that Jesus Christ became like God the Father, being a perfected being of flesh and bone. Only the Holy Ghost is a personage of Spirit. But what these three beings live for and are about create a unity of mindset, a goal of one purpose. This makes them united as three in one, while being three distinct beings. I hope this explains it? If not read D&C 130:22, and 131:7. The LDS religion does not believe in the trinitarian concept. | |
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allh2h
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Joined: 3/23/2006
Msg: 21 | |
| What is it with the Mormon thing
Posted: 4/26/2006 9:49:52 AM |
The common Christian belief then as it is now is that God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are three all powerful, immaterial three in one spiritual essence.
Ok I have a question and this might make mroe sense when I have had some mores leep but if Jesus was alive how could he be immaterial in that sense? But putting that aside, I finally got my dad awake, he said that the Godhead was three separate beings making it up and he was dumbstruck that an elder and a bishop would teach me otherwise. Kinda blew me away too but also because of some experiences I have had that prove to me that they are all in essence a "spirtitual being" but can be separate too. I have felt them all but have felt just the Holy Ghost too. But I distinctly remember in a D&C class them talking about the trinity (they referred to it as the godhead then it was all about trinity) and them being one "being". So this is all confusing to me, because I am a convert but my dad (well step-dad) grew up in the church. Do they have different classes for converts? I have to find that book.... | |
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| What is it with the Mormon thing
Posted: 4/26/2006 9:59:26 AM | | The class you refer to was or still is called gospel principles. The teacher speaks from a new book they print each succeeding year to teach principles taught by different prophets and leaders in their church. I have attended it many times to understand their beliefs. I am guessing that while being taught, the differences of the trinity and godhead beliefs were being discussed and that is what you are remembering maybe? | |
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| What is it with the Mormon thing
Posted: 4/26/2006 2:33:45 PM | | I read the same thing in the same book about the trinity...so thank you Sir Alaska (compliment intended) for explaining it in a way that is a bit more understandable. | |
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allh2h
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Joined: 3/23/2006
Msg: 24 | |
| What is it with the Mormon thing
Posted: 4/26/2006 11:41:46 PM | | Yes that is it! Thank you. In one class, a missionary was teaching it, a very SHY missionary and he had been in our ward maybe a week. He made every woman in the room, which was all of us but one man, cry from the lesson he was teaching. It was where Abraham (I think is who it is, not 100% sure on the name though) is told he has to sacrafice his son at the altar by God. He felt soooo bad...it was funny really now looking back. Made it a learning experience for him. | |
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| What is it with the Mormon thing
Posted: 4/28/2006 6:12:26 AM | To those who got their 'knowledge' of the LDS church from ex/anti Mormons websites/books, I ask you to remember they might not be the most balanced sources. Not only are they often bitter about personal experiences and/or offenses real or imagined, but they must put their tales into a profitable format (the authors et al).
That there are different ideas and doctrine from Protestant Christianity no Mormon denies, that was the purpose of the Restoration, to give us back what was lost (imo and per the church). But, just as I would expect you to seek other sources if all your info was from the missionaries, you need to do so in addition to these hate sites.
The LDS church does not and has not condoned/participated in plural marriage (polygamy) in over a century, and in fact any member who does so is excommunicated. Some splinter groups who have split off at various times in the Church's history still practice polygamy, but do so in secret and are their own religion, they are not LDS.
If you are interested in a well-written and readable book describing the differences between Evangelicals and Mormons, read "How Wide the Divide", it looks at what the doctrine really says and gives a very good rational for both sides. You still form your own opinion, but at least you have seen the whole picture.
MajMike | |
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