|
|
|
|
|
| Want cheap gas? Why not brew your own.
Posted: 4/28/2006 12:27:54 AM | If the present high price of gasoline has you down, why not buy one of this guys ethanol stills and rot yourself up some cheap fuel.
People Brew Own Gas To Beat Pump Prices
POSTED: 8:05 am MDT April 27, 2006
WASHINGTON -- Some people have become so desperate to find cheaper fuel for their cars they've begun making ethanol at home.
There are dozens of Web sites explaining how to make ethanol from homemade stills.
Bill Sasher, owner of a Tennessee company that sells ethanol stills and kits, said that once you're set up it costs about 75 cents a gallon to brew your own fuel.
Sasher said that with gas prices nationally closing in on $3 a gallon, his business is booming.
Most cars can run on a mixture of ethanol and gasoline, and the new flex fuel cars can run on 85 percent ethanol or regular gasoline.
http://www.kfoxtv.com/automotive/9040469/detail.html
the one good thing abotu a high gasoline price is that the longer it lasts the more alternative methods of making it cheap will arise. | |
|
| |
| |
| |
| Want cheap gas? Why not brew your own.
Posted: 4/29/2006 10:41:40 PM | Montana's guv says he can solve our problems...
Montana governor Brian Schweitzer has expressed even more ambitious plans. He believes Montana's 120 billion tons (109 billion metric tons) of coal could supply the nation's [clean, low-sulfer] gas, diesel, and jet fuel needs for the next 40 years.
The full article has a lot of interesting history on the technique used to convert it (including that it was used by the Nazis).
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/04/0418_060418_coal_energy.html
Pennsylvania wants in on the action too.
Pursuing alternative sources is becoming a sensible option now that oil is $75+ a barrel! Yes, I know coal is still a fossil fuel, but if it can be cleanly converted to fuel...it's an option.
~ Panda | |
|
longte
|
Joined: 10/18/2004
Msg: 6 | |
| Want cheap gas? Why not brew your own.
Posted: 4/30/2006 1:36:38 AM | Good friend and I decided to investigate making Hydrogen and using it
The resulting explosion was heard 15 miles away
The concrete slab of the shed was still there, but not much else
..
. | |
|
| Want cheap gas? Why not brew your own.
Posted: 4/30/2006 1:52:14 AM | OK, it's about to get technical...
There's a thing called Reid Vapor Pressure (RVP) which is a measurement of the volatility of fuel. For transportation purposes, RVP is generally between 12 and 14 so that fuel trucks and pipelines don't go BOOM during transport. The other reason for keeping RVP in check is that a vapor pressure which is too high will cause your vehicle's engine to vapor lock (ok, I know at least some of your guys will remember the basics... even if your vehicle no longer uses carboration and uses injection technology, vapor lock is still a condition to avoid). Ethanol is much more volatile than gasoline (put a cc of each in separate beakers and see which one disappears first!), meaning it generates a higher vapor pressure. Unless an engine is designed for or tuned for a relatively pure ethanol fuel blend, it will likely cause vapor lock (especially during the summer months).
Biodiesel seems more viable, being based on vegetable oil and being much less volatile. The problem is that while it will work well in diesel engines, gasoline engines need a slightly "lighter" fuel mixture for better efficiency and cleaner combustion product emissions.
We're still about a decade out from commercially viable hydrogen cell technology and probably two decades in terms of true serviceability, IMO. | |
|
| Want cheap gas? Why not brew your own.
Posted: 4/30/2006 5:33:00 AM | There are so many more options than simply biodiesel, alcohol or hydrogen. There is also gasification and now the direct conversion of plastic into diesel. We have tons of potential fuel feedstocks stuffed into landfills.
To me, what makes sense is to pursue those types of fuels that are carbon cycle neutral - that is, biomass...not only new, as in corn, but waste as well. If the focus is on those types of fuels, we will kill two birds with one stone....not only fuel but the reduction of greenhouse emissions.
I also favor the direct use of WVO (waste vegetable oil) in diesel engines for, if nothing else, the production of electricity. All that needs to be done for its use is micron-level filtration, dewatering and heating, and it will work very nicely in a diesel...and again, no pollution...
Mad | |
|
| Want cheap gas? Why not brew your own.
Posted: 5/5/2006 8:48:40 PM | So a company develops solar hydrogen generator for cars. The US government responds by raiding their facility and attempting to outlaw the chemicals it uses
http://www.switch2hydrogen.com/?callyourcongressman
One does wonder how much the price of Gas is fear based. | |
|
| Want cheap gas? Why not brew your own.
Posted: 5/6/2006 4:12:02 PM | There are some draw backs to ethanol. Firstly as mentioned it is volatile and also it is corrosive so you need to have a fuel tank and lines that can deal with it. Now people will point out that you wont get as much mileage from tethanol E85 (85% ethanol and 15% gas) than regular gas. However if you were to use it in as say a 50-50 mixt you would save and probably not need to worry about any drop in mileage or it eating your tank. brew/distill the ethanol at home and then fill up 1/2 tank at the local station and come home and fill the rest of the tank with ethanol.
all you do is find anything that has sugars or starches and boil it up to help break it down, toss in some yeast and wait for it to stop fermenting. run it thru a distiller to separate the ethanol. toss the rest in the compost pile.
Problem that most people dont see is that it takes time to make this. These people selling distillers will mention that you can make 5-10 gallons (19-38L) in an hour. Thing is the fermenting takes about a week.
I have worked making beer and wine and have made it for years. its very simple. The distilling is the hard part and is also illegal as it is making moonshine. Thats the one thing that is never mentioned when talking about making ethanol. Although I doubt you would get fined just as long as you never tasted a drop.
Since you are making ethanol as fuel you dont need to worry about what you use where in beer or wine you do. Probably any plant/wood material could be used. It might not produce as much as ethanol but some is better than none and the by product waste will included a lot of yeast which has nutrients to replenish the garden where you could be growing your fuel source.
its not that hard to do but biodiesel is much much easier and faster. Its only drawback is that it turns solid so you have to warm it first by running regular diesel. Although I am sure someone will find a way to do this without needing regular diesel. The good thing is people are now looking seriously at other fuel sources. | |
|
| Want cheap gas? Why not brew your own.
Posted: 5/6/2006 4:47:24 PM | | For anyones information of a cheaper fuel, 60 minutes is doing a special on a couple farmers and what they are proposing/using for alternative fuel on Sunday, May 7th. Check your listings. Might be interesting. | |
|
| Want cheap gas? Why not brew your own.
Posted: 5/13/2006 2:11:00 PM | before you run off and buy this still they are selling you have to understand the entire process.
Ethanol is in beer and spirits. now beer is about 5% ethanol and wine around 10%. Now this company has two stills. 1 produces 5 gallons per hour and the other makes 10 gallons per hour. Sounds too good to be true! It is! They are misleading by not showing the full process. It might distill that quickly but it will take a week to 10 days to ferment and produce the ethanol that will then be distilled.
Now this is where the 5%-10% ethanol comes into effect. To produce the 5 gallons of ethanol in the 1 hour it will take about 10 days to ferment it. Now you are wanting 5 gallons after it is distilled. At 5% that means you need to start off with fermenting 100 gallons. the distillation then takes 1 hour to heat this to the correct temperature to allow the ethanol to evaporate, then condense and fill up the 5 gallon jug. Basically you are making 100 gallons of beer. Now this site is claiming you will make the ethanol for 75 cents a gallon. that means that for $3.25 you can buy enough ingredients to ferment 100 gallons of homebrew. I am guessing this would work if you can get sacks of corn sugar for free. As for heating the 100 gallons to evaporte the ethanol I would imagine it costing a few $ unless you also have a free heat source.
I called up a few chemical supply stores yeesterday. I was trying to locate cheap ethanol. Best deal I could find was 5 gallons for $75. really not a savings at all.
If you have a farm and grow corn or sugar cane then you might be able to produce cheap ethanol but for the average user you wont have the room or the cheap supplies for the
ingredients.
Last point they forget to include is that the still costs about $1500. Now lets imagine that you will save $1 per gallon by making your own. You then need to produce 1500 gallons just to break even. I dont know how much gas you use but it would take me years just to break even. Hardly seems worth the time and energy. I would suggest just brewing a batch of beer at $10 for 5 gallons. Much more satisfying! | |
|
| Want cheap gas? Why not brew your own.
Posted: 5/13/2006 2:26:11 PM | | Nice to see some willingness to develop some alternative fuel resources. It will be interesting to see how this will affect oil companies,government ,consumers. | |
|
| Want cheap gas? Why not brew your own.
Posted: 5/13/2006 3:11:10 PM | In all seriousness, I support the home distillation of alcohol...but most people would save far more money by making their own beer and moonshine rather than making ethanol fuel additives.
Furthermore alcohol distillation is energy intensive, and is fairly inefficiant and dangerous on the small scale.
Ethanol is part of the solution, but not home ethanol distillation. | |
|
| Want cheap gas? Why not brew your own.
Posted: 5/14/2006 7:21:57 AM |
the one good thing abotu a high gasoline price is that the longer it lasts the more alternative methods of making it cheap will arise.
I totally agree with this statement, OP. We're going through some growing pains now, but alternative fuel production only will become efficient through mass production and demand. Beyond that, cars that use alternative energy sources such as hybrids and electrics also have a great deal of untapped potential. Most people who are opposed to electric cars don't like the idea of a car who's 0-60 time is measured in minutes. Check out this link here--this guy can make an electric car now for $100,000 that has whipped the majority of today's supercars in the 0-60 and 1/4 mile.
http://money.cnn.com/2006/05/04/technology/business2_wrightspeed/index.htm | |
|
yna6
|
Joined: 5/2/2004
Msg: 16 | |
| Want cheap gas? Why not brew your own.
Posted: 5/14/2006 11:21:06 PM | We seem to all be looking for an alternative fuel to run conventional engines. How about an engine made form plastics and ceramics that runs on something else?
Just a suggestion, but maybe alternate engine designs could be an answer.
Sure, it would a "from the ground up" innovation, but I am pretty sure it could well be done. There is a chemical that can be mixed with water to make a gas alternative, but it has a tendancy to cook the motor. This has been about for over half a century. But, perhaps, a new type of engine could burn this fuel. It is a mixture of acetone and acetylene with a bit of prussic acid in it. When mixed with water it can turn over a conventional engine. When Thomas Edison "rediscovered" this mix it was more expensive than gasoline at that time. I don't know about now though.
Just a thought that maybe there is another answer out there, and we are too busy looking from the wrong end of the telescope! | |
|
| Want cheap gas? Why not brew your own.
Posted: 5/15/2006 2:25:00 AM | since there are already thousands of Flex fuel cars on the roads (just not our roads)
why are these vehicles not made available to us,..since they also work by using conventional fuel???,....and since the current ethanol is so much cheaper and unlimited in supply possibility???
The major car manufacturers supply them to,...south American countries,...
GM and Ford, take note: flex-fuel cars outsold conventional gasoline driven cars in Brazil in 2005,...
1. Actually both Ford and GM have taken note, one of the biggest selling "Flex" cars is the Ford Fiesta Flex, theres also a very popular mini-Escape called the Ecosport Flex. On the GM front Chevy sells a couple models of the Opel/Vauxhall Astra with Flex motors.
http://www.autoblog.com/2006/01/13/flex-fuel-cars-lead-brazilian-auto-sales/
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
so clearly they do already make them,...they just don't offer them to us,...why not?
What is E85?
E85 is the term for motor fuel blends of 85 percent ethanol and just 15 percent gasoline. E85 is an alternative fuel as defined by the U.S. Department of Energy. Besides its superior performance characteristics, ethanol burns cleaner than gasoline; it is a completely renewable, domestic, environmentally friendly fuel that enhances the nation's economy and energy independence.
Today, the U. S. imports more than half of its oil, and overall consumption continues to increase. By supporting ethanol production and use, U.S. drivers can help reverse that trend. 85% ethanol can reduce pollution. Government tests have shown that E85 vehicles reduce harmful hydrocarbon and benzene emissions when compared to vehicles running on gasoline. E85 can also reduce carbon dioxide (CO2), a harmful greenhouse gas and a major contributor to global warming.
Although CO2 is released during ethanol production and combustion, it is recaptured as a nutrient to the crops that are used in its production. Unlike fossil fuel combustion, which unlocks carbon that has been stored for millions of years, use of ethanol results in low increases to the carbon cycle.
Ethanol also degrades quickly in water and, therefore, poses much less risk to the environment than an oil or gasoline spill
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you think a service station may be interested in providing E85, please contact the National Ethanol Vehicle Coalition and your local Clean Cities coalition. They are available to help and may be able to provide financial and consumer education assistance to the service station.
http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/e85toolkit/existing_stations.html
if supply and demand determines what we have access to,...then it is up to all of us to flat out demand it,......
the oil companies are not happy with this because right now they are clearly in the money,....
but even for those of us who don't have flex cars,..and can't afford to get one any time soon,..remember if you demand this PROVEN technology and both the flex cars and the fuel is made widely available it will also force down the price of traditional gassoline which is clearly off the chart costly at this time,....it would be a win/win for all of us,.... | |
|
| Want cheap gas? Why not brew your own.
Posted: 5/15/2006 7:14:30 AM | Which of these are you refgerring to,.....all of the below have been in research and development for more than a decade,....Number 3 you can buy and actually use right now,..
*(1)*,....The Dense Plasma Focus - History and Design
The Dense Plasma Focus (DPF) is a device that has been used in research for the last 40 years. It was invented in 1964 and is used in many types of research.
http://www.focusfusion.org/what/plasmafocus.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*(2)*,....The authors have developed a new type of plasma reactor combining discharge plasma with photocatalyst (TiO2) which can improve the performance of NOx removal. We also find that hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) is a very effective additive in this plasma catalytic reactor. NOx was effectively oxidized to HNO3 on TiO2 catalyst and trapped on the catalyst surface. Specific energy consumption of this de-NOx process is significantly reduced especially with the injection of H2O2
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/abs_free.jsp?arNumber=626323
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*(3)*,....
Q1: Why hydrogen? What’s so special about hydrogen?
A1: Hydrogen is considered a near-perfect energy carrier. It has many advantages over conventional fuels: it is non-toxic, it is renewable, clean to use, it’s cheap, and it produces much more energy per pound. Hydrogen is considered the fuel of choice for energy-efficiency. As stated above, it burns very cleanly and doesn’t produce carbon dioxide pollutants.
One of the most exciting things about hydrogen is that it is virtually cost free since one can extract hydrogen from ordinary tap water. You just have to separate the hydrogen from the oxygen in the water, and use both in your engine. With the Hydro-Gen all you do is add a few tablespoons of lye as an electrolyte, and you’re on your way to great fuel savings.
Q2: How exactly does the Hydro-Gen Work?
A2: How the Hydro-Gen works is actually pretty ingenious. The unit sends an electric charge through a liquid electrolyte comprised of water and Lye which causes the hydrogen molecules to separate from the oxygen molecules in the water. It then captures the hydrogen and channels it into the engine via the air intake system.
The principle is diabolically simple, really. The introduction of this second fuel actually reduces the engine’s need for the primary fuel.
Q3: Will it work in your vehicle?
A3: The Hydro-Gen will work in virtually any conventional motor vehicle. If your car or truck has an internal combustion engine that burns gasoline or diesel fuel, the Hydro-Gen will work -- new or old, any make or model. And, it doesn’t matter if you if you have an older carburetor-based fuel system or a newer fuel-injection system, the Hydro-Gen will work. Really!
The reason why the Hydro-Gen will work in ANY vehicle with an internal combustion engine is because it channels the hydrogen fuel mix through the existing air intake system on the engine, via the standard air intake hose or air cleaner. So, there are no modifications to the current engine required. You just “plug” the Hydro-Gen into the existing air intake system and you’re all set to go
http://www.savefuel.ca/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The last one has my bull sh!t-o-meter firing up,....but who knows,..might be on the level,...
I always thought that hydrogen fuel was a pipe dream or the holy grail,.....I had no idea how much research is actually being done in this field,...it was interesting reading,... | |
|
yna6
|
Joined: 5/2/2004
Msg: 19 | |
| Want cheap gas? Why not brew your own.
Posted: 5/15/2006 7:59:21 AM | | I think my BS meter would be going off the chart with this idea too. I can't see a solution this simple without the con game idea hitting me between the eyes. | |
|
| Want cheap gas? Why not brew your own.
Posted: 5/15/2006 1:39:54 PM | -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MOTORS & GENERATORS
Preface to AC Motor/Generator Patents
Jan. 8, 1889 Electro-Magnetic Motor #405,858 84
Feb. 18, 1889 Method of Operating Electro-Magnetic Motors #401,520 87
Mar. 14, 1889 Method of Electrical Power Transmission #405,859 91
Mar. 23, 1889 Dynamo-Electric Machine #406,968 94
Apr. 6, 1889 Electro-Magnetic Motor #459,772 97
May 20, 1889 Electro-Magnetic Motor #416,191 102
May 20, 1889 Method of Operating Electro-Magnetic Motors #416,192 106
May 20, 1889 Electro-Magnetic Motor #416,193 110
May 20, 1889 Electric Motor #416,194 113
May 20, 1889 Electro-Magnetic Motor #416,195 116
May 20, 1889 Electro-Magnetic Motor #418,248 122
May 20, 1889 Electro-Magnetic Motor #424,036 125
May 20, 1889 Electro-Magnetic Motor #445,207 129
Preface to Patented Electrical Components
June 12, 1889 Method of Obtaining Direct from
Alternating Currents #413,353 197
June 28, 1889 Armature for Electric Machines
(Tesla-Schmid, co-inventors) #417,794 204
HIGH FREQUENCY
Preface to Patents in High Frequency
none for this year,....
RADIO
Preface to The Radio Patents
none for this year,............
LIGHTING
Preface to The Lighting Patents
none for this year,............
VARIOUS DEVICES & PROCESSES
Preface to Various Devices & Processes
none for this year,............
a completet of all of tesla's patens,...are on this site
http://www.hbci.com/~wenonah/new/tesla.htm
I couldn't find any pertaining to H2 plasma,....
so if you have a better source,...list it,....
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://keelynet.com/energy/teslcar.htm
although,...he was workimg on an electric car,...... | |
|
| Want cheap gas? Why not brew your own.
Posted: 5/15/2006 1:59:11 PM | Heres another solution to high fuel costs. Loremo, 157mpg!!
The German auto manufacturer, Loremo AG, will be debuting this car at the Motor Show 2006 in Geneva next week. This is an ultra-efficient car that is powered by a 2-cylinder turbo diesel engine that operates at 20 hp and a top speed of 99 mph. Loremo is planning on selling this car for less than $13,000. The car has such low gas consumption because it weighs less than 1,000 pounds. It may also look small, but supposedly it has enough space for four.
http://www.i4u.com/article5165.html | |
|
yna6
|
Joined: 5/2/2004
Msg: 22 | |
| Want cheap gas? Why not brew your own.
Posted: 5/16/2006 9:20:54 AM | ^^ fine and dandy. Vehicle like that wouldn't last out here for a year. In the city, they can use an electric car. Or a small car with little weight to it with small engines. Fine. But out here, the roads suck most of the time, and we have to go long distances to get to work, go get groceries, etc. We don't get a subsidy on our fuel out here, and should, simply because of need. City folks have the option of using mass transit, we do not. Many choose NOT to use mass transit for one reason or a another ("it is most plebian" was one excuse I heard). A lot of city folk don't "load up" on groceries one a month, and could carry or transport 4 bags of groceries in a cart. there is a lot more stores within easy distance of them. with more comparable pricing. We don't get that here either.
City people do not have to worry about their water quality, because "someone else is responsible for it".
I say, cut private vehicles out altogther in the cities, and let those who want a private vehicle keep it outside of the city. It would save a lot of fuel, and open up the mass transit system, making it pay for itself more, rather than being constantly subsidized. More jobs would open up for cabs, and the expanding system, and even more jobs open to maintain them. Look at some cities where bicycles outnumber cars 10 to one. | |
|
| Want cheap gas? Why not brew your own.
Posted: 5/16/2006 12:25:23 PM | Not only would banning private vehicles be a logistic nightmare for the locals,..but what about the many towns and cities that have,..and depend on the thousands of tourists that visit every year,....
Now Halifax has what I think is a great extra for locals and tourists alike and that is a free special bus service for the downtown core,...but it only does the core,....not the many outlying places that people from all around the globe come here for,.....
and bycycles are only good for locations that don't have hills like San Fransisco,...and the young and healthy people that can use bikes,...even the motorised ones like moppets aren't good for here and many other locations because we get far too much rain throughout the year,....
The closest store to me grocery wise is about 5 KM away,..I can't walk it,....even before the medical restrictions and I certainly can't carry groceries,....and the bus comes once an hour,..cabs,..I can't afford,....and in this I am not unique,.... | |
|
| Want cheap gas? Why not brew your own.
Posted: 5/16/2006 10:14:34 PM | Hydrogen is an energy carrier.. not a source. It costs more in energy to make hydrogen than you get from burning the hydrogen.
If you used the entire worlds proven supply of platinum you would have enough to make about 700 million fuel cells that last about 1200 hours, or roughly 12,000 miles.
Then there is no more platinum to make fuel cells for next year.
Forget about hydrogen saving the world. | |
|
| Want cheap gas? Why not brew your own.
Posted: 5/21/2006 6:57:30 AM | All that I will say is DO THE RESEARCH into Hydrogen Plasme Cold Fusion Reactor and or Hydrogen Plasma Reactor, that is all I'm going to tell you...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On your behest and because I had not heard of which you wrote,...I did do the research,...and the more I research,..the more my suspicions were piqued,....
I actually went into the research completely open minded......
but then again I suspect what you have been saying by your venemous,...
NOW, DO THE RESEARCH!!! mantra,...is check it out and then agree with me,...
well I checked it out and I disagree with you,....
as for renewable fuels like ethonol,....they are proving successfull,..and cost effecient by every passing day,...and with every new Flex fuel car that makes it off the assembly line of the big auto manufacturers,....for them to consider making them,...you better bet that they too,...DID THE RESEARCH!!!
I'm not saying that your idea is completely wrong,...because many are in fact spending millions on research and development,...what I am saying,...is that in MY OPINION,....
they are still on the drawing board,....
Here's what I don't understand,...why on earth are you so vehemently against anything but YOUR SELF RENEWABLE fuel,....and are against such proven also RENEWABLE ones like Ethonol???? Renewable,...and affordable should be the goal no???
why should we ever again limit ourselves to just one option,....the more the better,..choices,..keeps the price reasonalbe,....we've tried it the other way with cartels and monopolies,..and look where that has gotten us,....I say,..bring 'em on,....all the new ideas,... | |
|
|
|
Home
login 
