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 Jarbarian
Joined: 2/9/2006
Msg: 1
Nice Guy/Balanced/Jerk (defined)Page 1 of 1    
Ok, I thought I would post this one more time. I've read at least 4 threads today that constantly refer to women as wanting "jerks" when nothing could be farther from the truth. I didn't write this but guys if you really want to know what women want invest 5 minutes of your time reading this. It will change your life.

1.) THE NICE GUY: Any man who exibits any combination of the following behaviors,

a.) Low self-esteem; doesn't value himself highly. Might be out of past failures or other deep-rooted emotional issues
b.) Constantly seeks approval/validation/attention from others, usually out of a low amount of self-worth (See a.)
c.) Insecure; doesn't feel that a high quality person should like him (See a. so is constantly fearful that he will lose them
d.) Controlling/posessive/domineering/clingy/suffocating behavior; overcalling, etc.. (See c.)
e.) Idealizes potential mates (overlooks flaws AKA "Puts them on a pedastal") as well as relationships (invests large amounts of emotion/time/energy/money into relationships early on)
f.) Doesn't take responsibility for his actions
g.) Claims he's victimized; attributes his own flaws and shortcomings to external circumstances and/or other people (See f.)
h.) Self-concious/nervous around attrative women; Cares what others think, doesn't want anyone to dissaprove of him (See b.)
i.) Strong amounts of jealously (See d.); makes people feel guilty when they enjoy time WITHOUT him
k.) Kisses-up/trys to be totally agreeable/submissive to try and "score points" with a woman
l.) Doesn't lead; he's submissive, always wants to make sure EVERYTHING he's doing is okay with her; over-apologetic
m.) Doesn't draw boundaries; gives women whatever they want in return for love/sex/approval; accepts second-class behavior for the possible reward of the aforementioned. Doesn't say "No" very often; doesnt want to cause any "waves" (See h.)
n.) Poor/weak body language; little or no eye contact, leans foward out of nervousness, fast/jerky movements, nervous ticks/figety habits, hands in pockets, bad posture/doesn't stand up straight
o.) Is easily emotionally destabilized; gets worked up over meaningless things
p.) Common use of self-deprecating humor to get approval/pity/empathy (See b.)
q.) Feels guilt for his natural sexual desires, maybe even LOOKING an a woman
r.) Whines/complains; usually to get pity/empathy
s.) Favors short-sighted/instant gratification thinking

The "nice-guy" is the personification of attributes in a man that women ultimately DO NOT feel attraction for.

Any man who wants to have genuine sucess with women should AVOID these at all costs

Women all around the globe, despite different backgrounds and upbringing, generally respond the same way to this type of man.

Nice-guys almost always act victimized and attribute their lack of sucess to outside factors they claim are out of their control. They think that it's not their fault (I.E "SHE'S IMMATURE FOR LIKING BAD BOYS" "SHE DOESNT RECOGNIZE GOOD GUYS WHEN SHE SEES THEM" "SHE HAS ISSUES" Sound familiar?). Many nice-guys harbor a [secret] belief that they're better than other men ("I bought her 20 roses on the 2nd date" "I waited in the rain for her for 3 hours" "I lent her money when she went over her credit card limit). However, the reality is that if you're doing something [NICE] to get something in return, you are being MANIPULATIVE. Nice guys will go through their entire lives living in a continual state of self-deception; convinced that they are "Good guys" and that they are better than others.

The fact of the matter is that nice guys do not have traits that make them appealing/attractive to the opposite sex.

The lack everything in a man that practically every woman wants. And that man is...

2.) THE REAL MAN: Any man who exibits any combination of the following behaviors.

a.) Has a HIGH amount of self-esteem; views himself as high-status
b.) Doesnt need any outside approval or attention from ANYONE to be happy
c.) Unself-concious; doesnt care what others thinks of him
d.) Is NEVER insecure or nervous (espcially around desireable women), and he sub-communicates this in every little way
e.) Self-confident; NEVER arrogant or insecure, POSSIBLY slightly-cocky. May tease women in a friendly way
f.) Does not let outside events/other peoples opinions (See c.) emotionally destabilize him; is always in control of his emotions
g.) Takes full responsibility for all of his actions
h.) Never whines or complains to get approval or empathy; always accepts the world for exactly what it is
i.) Judges people based on character and personality.. NOT outward appearance/material items
j.) Can be brutally honest (while still being respectful) with everyone(including himself) and is not afraid to put someone in their place when they are out of line; isn't afraid to speak his mind
k.) Isn't afraid to draw boundaries
l.) Mature.. in every sense of the word
m.) Has a PURPOSE in life that he never betrays and pro-actively/ambitiously works towards
n.) Goal-oriented thinker; favors long-term gratification over short (See l.)
o.) Isn't afraid to lead and take control of a situation; doesnt have hesitancy moving foward
p.) Never feels ashamed for his sexual desires & needs; always sexually confident
q.) Is always "himself", and is content with whatever that is (See a.)
r.) Doesn't tolerate disrespect to himself, his property, or his time
s.) Doesn't let women use their sexual power to get anything (whether it be money, or self-respect) from him
t.) Loyal
u.) Compassionate
v.) Independant
w.) Is perfectly happy and fufilled being single; sure, he'd like to find an attractive/beautiful/intelligent woman to spend time with but he doesnt NEED it
x.) Comfortable in the presence of other high-status and/or sophisticated people
y.) Doesnt experience jealousy; is perfectly fine when a woman exersizes her independence and encourages it; enjoys it when others shine
z.) Strong/confident/powerful body language (Stands up straight, doesnt break eye contact, doesnt have any nervous ticks, doesnt have quick/jerky movements, leans back out of self-confidence and lack of nervousness)
a1.) Doesn't feel the need to compensate for himself through gifts, expensive restaurants (Doing either of these things from a place of confidence and high-value is on the other hand OKAY)
a2.) DOESNT invest all his emotion/time into a relationship too early on. He remains an ambiguous challenge


The real man is the polar opposite of the "nice-guy". He is the manfestation of traits in a man that woman universally & naturally feel the emotion of attraction for.

Throughout history, real men have been featured in movies and literature.

The following quote was taken from 'Dangerous Men and Adventerous Women', a book about the appeal of romance novels to women,


"Given that conflict is a requirement of all good fiction, especially
good genre fiction, and given that the conflict must arise out
of the primary focus of the story, it is understandable that in a
romance novel conflict must exist between the hero and heroine.
The hero in a romance is the most important challenge the
heroine must face and conquer. The hero is her real problem in the
book, not whatever trendy issue or daring adventure is also going
on in the subplot. In some way, shape, or form, in some manner
either real or perceived on the heroine's part, the hero must be a
source of emotional and, yes, sometimes physical risk. He must
present a genuine threat.

The hero must be part villain or else he won't be much of a
challenge for a strong woman. The heroine must put herself at risk
with him if the story is to achieve the level of excitement and the
particular sense of danger that only a classic romance can provide.
And the flat truth is that you don't get much of a challenge for
a heroine from a sensitive, understanding, right-thinking "modern"
man who is part therapist, part best friend, and thoroughly
tamed from the start. You don't get much of a challenge for her
from a neurotic wimp or a good-natured gentleman-saint who
never reveals a core of steel. And it is that core of steel at the
center of a good romance hero that makes it all worth while."

(A -perfect- example of a real man would be Rhett Butler in Gone With The Wind.

He's never afraid to point out when someone is acting childish or out of line

He's always comfortable in the face of danger or other high status people

He doesn't care what others think of him

And many more..)

-------------------------------
[On a side note] women don't have control over who they are attracted to, the same way that men don't have control over which women turn them on. It's a completely unconcious process that we dont have GENUINE control over. So beliefs like "Once she figures how I feel about her, she'll have no choice but to love me!" could not be further from the truth. Women cannot feel the powerful gut-level emotion of attraction for you through LOGICAL resoning/telling her all your feelings/"winning her over" with gifts, etc...

This was a post taken from this thread. (http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t53288/)

"My first bf was absolutely in love with me. He was the nicest guy I ever went out with. Total gentleman. Sincere. A great listener. Handsome. With all of this I let him go. Why? I still don't know!!! Up to this point he still tells everyone I was the one broke his heart, his first and only love. He was the closest to perfect that there can be. He stayed in love with me for 7 years and he has always thrown it in my face that I let go of someone who really cared for me and loved me to date guys that were jerks. He says I like the bad life. He is a real good friend now, so he tell me how he sees it. He always asks me why did I leave him. He tells me that I like bad a**es, which might be true!!! Why? Again, I don't know Sometimes I think he was TOO nice, too perfect. I wish I could have made my heart fall in love with him instead, everything would be different."

This is a perfect example of logic vs. emotion. Her logical brain says she SHOULD feel attracted to him, but there just isnt that spark; that elusive chemistry that men strive for and that women crave.

And I should metion, that he sounds like a victimized nice-guy, who is STILL trying to get her back and STILL seeking approval and sympathy from her (by rubbing it in her face and reminding her).
-------------------------------

There's no denying that women respond strongy to these kind of men. The real man is a archetype for the next kind of man..

3.) "THE BAD BOY"

The bad boy is a man who posses certain appealing qualities of a real-man, but packaged along with negative traits

He may be physically and/or emotionally abusive, harbor bad-habits (drug abuse, alcholism, etc..), objectify or

degrade women, etc..

The bad boy is appealing because he shares traits with the real-man.

The bad boy and real the real man should NEVER get confused. They are two very different creatures; one is a mature man while the other is simply a boy in a mans body; a neotenous adult.
 FireKnight
Joined: 4/24/2006
Msg: 2
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History
Nice Guy/Balanced/Jerk (defined)
Posted: 5/2/2006 11:02:01 AM
Not in all a bad post a lot of good points.. but way way tooo forgiving of the "Bad Boy" and way way too shortsighted over all.

The bad boy is not an archetype of the Real Man if infact he were then confusion between them would be acceptable.

Further there is GREAT imbalance in defining the "Nice guy" actions with matching motivations but not doing so for the others.

Ergo the purpose of this message more then anything else is to disparage the nice guy while making those that fail to appreciate them feel totally vindicated in such a choice.

This makes it inherently flawed because the truth is far more complex then that. Both the "Nice Guy" and the "Bad Boy" share traits of the "Real Man" Further the "Real Man" is an idealized stereotype which is not always infact appreciated for what it is either.
For example the following 3 traits often are sources of complaint even within good relationships.

f.) Does not let outside events/other peoples opinions (See c.) emotionally destabilize him; is always in control of his emotions
Complaint "nothing ever effects you", "why don't you say anything", "why don't you see how I feel"

g.) Takes full responsibility for all of his actions
Complaint "Why should you care if your ex needs ......," "Why do you always try to fix things"

h.) Never whines or complains to get approval or empathy; always accepts the world for exactly what it is
Complaint "Don't you have dreams?", "Why is the world always black and white to you?"

Ergo its a good post to explain some of the issues with the nice guy. but it stereotypes way to much. It's a good post to explain someof the reasons why women make CHOICES they do.. but equally forgives them too much for it declaring stereotypes that infact are not as universal as the writer things and are varied culturally.

Finally on the issue of attraction this too is a common and false belief while there are absolute truths to initial reactions which are chemically based *not going to get into biology right now* Society shapes what we believe are attractive qualities. Example in the middle ages pale white pear shaped women with large bellies were considered beautiful and attractive because they were so rare.

There is infinately more to who and what we are attracted to then the archetypes presented here :)
 Jarbarian
Joined: 2/9/2006
Msg: 3
Nice Guy/Balanced/Jerk (defined)
Posted: 5/2/2006 11:25:49 AM
FireKnight,

Good post. I do agree there are a lot of generalizations but if you want to bring it down to the nuts and bolts of what a nice guy is -- it's really what he isn't.

Confident.

When you are confident in yourself and self-assured you will not accept disrespectful behavior in relationships. For example when my business partner occasionally raises his voice at me (because that is the type of guy he is) I am quick to remind him that I won't tolerate being yelled at. Right there, he lowers his voice. He knows I won't put up with that crap.

When I finally got my act together I actually booted my ex from my house. I had enough of her disrespectful behavior that I decided that the only solution was to remove the problem.

Her.

It's been five months and I just received an email from her as we've been chatting lately. I am more respected by her now than I ever was in the relationship. She's reaching out -- little by little. She even wants to go to lunch.

But back to the point. I agree with a lot of what you have to say. The crux of this post is to give men and idea of what behaviors trigger that infamous line "I need some space" or "It's not you, it's me..." and all the other lines men hear that signify she is not longer "into" you.

Attraction is not a choice. Women can not control who they are attracted to. I can tell you that if men fall into the "nice guy" category are basically door mats. Women want strong, confident, self-assured men.

A balanced man knows that he must love, respect and make himself happy before he can love, respect and make others happy. It's simply a matter of first understanding yourself before you can understand others.

Great post. Thanks for the reply.
 MichelleRenee
Joined: 4/12/2006
Msg: 4
Nice Guy/Balanced/Jerk (defined)
Posted: 5/2/2006 11:55:48 AM
Oh jeez, here we go...

I gotta admit I didn't read your whole post. Reading the whole thing would've been like inhaling the entire fart as opposed gettin a whiff and walkin away with your nose plugged. Dude, that was a bunch of BS!

First of all, I really disagree with the whole "Real Man" thing. I mean many of the characteristics you described should be present in ANY healthy person--male or female.

Second of all, you can be a "nice guy" and be insecure OR secure. The confidence isn't what makes someone a "nice guy" or even a nice person for that matter. It's BEING NICE that gets you labeled NICE. Nice people tend to be less of a challenge than ***holes, definitely, and many women want the challenge without realizing that's what they want.

The problem isn't with being nice or the definition of a "nice guy". The problem is that too many people think they know what they want, but really don't know WHAT they want. When they get the thing they had wished for, it tends to be different than they had expected.

I am a woman who's looking for a nice guy, and here is the criteria for what what goes with a nice guy:

1). Honest
2.) Loyal
3.) Even-tempered
4.) Not a womanizer
5.) Not a cheater
6.) Remembers the important things
7.) Thoughtful towards the other
8.) Loving

It's not very difficult. Just someone who's nice. You can be shy...and nice. Quiet..and nice. Talkative and loud... and nice. Outgoing...and nice. You can be who you are and be nice, just as long as you don't hit me, raise your voice to me unwarranted, call me names or say other hurtful things to hurt me, and put some thought into our relationship. In my specific definition... I prefer when "nice guys" aren't just nice to me but to those wround him as well.

THAT'S ALL IT TAKES!! If you're****, arrogant, conceited, mean, selfish, vengeful, and angry it will be hard to be a nice guy and catch my attention.

As for being put on a pedestal... yeah, I guess I do kinda expect that but only because that's what I do when I'm in love and it's best when we're up there together! Overlook my flaws? Hell nah! LOVE ME FOR THEM! And I'll do the same if we're a good match!

I'm sorry that you're jaded, but enough with the bullshit. Maybe you just think you're a nice guy and you're really not? Maybe that's why they turn you away? Maybe you need to look up the word nice again, and then market yourself for who you really are.
 Ezzee
Joined: 7/26/2004
Msg: 5
Nice Guy/Balanced/Jerk (defined)
Posted: 5/2/2006 12:09:19 PM
So after examining both of these list, I fall into both the nice guy category and the real man category. Is it possible to exhibit any combination of both areas? Well, if it isn't, then I guess I just found someway to be a freak. This description oversimplifies things. Are there some good points? Sure. But there is a lot more. Basically, what this is trying to do is to explain, in comparison, the international community by saying that everyone hates the United States. While in theory, this may be true, it is a lot more complicated than that.
 Jarbarian
Joined: 2/9/2006
Msg: 6
Nice Guy/Balanced/Jerk (defined)
Posted: 5/2/2006 12:29:32 PM

I gotta admit I didn't read your whole post.


So you're admitting you're responding without having all the information? That would make the rest of what you have to say more of a rant than useful information but I digress....


Reading the whole thing would've been like inhaling the entire fart as opposed gettin a whiff and walkin away with your nose plugged. Dude, that was a bunch of BS!


How insightful! That would fall under the category of "things I don't need to know." :laugh


First of all, I really disagree with the whole "Real Man" thing. I mean many of the characteristics you described should be present in ANY healthy person--male or female.


That would be the point of the thread, actually. Being a "nice guy" (doormat) is not a healthy trait. Men who are classic door mats lack confidence and self-esteem. And yes, the same can be said of women but women tend to have a better support structure than men which is why I am addressing men directly. I've been a "door mat" before and have experienced this before so I tend to believe I am, unfortunately, a bit of an expert on the subject.


Second of all, you can be a "nice guy" and be insecure OR secure.


The context of nice guy refers to door mat. Men shouldn't be "nice", they should be "good." There is a big difference between the two.


The confidence isn't what makes someone a "nice guy" or even a nice person for that matter. It's BEING NICE that gets you labeled NICE. Nice people tend to be less of a challenge than ***holes, definitely, and many women want the challenge without realizing that's what they want.


The lack of confidence in turn pushes "door mats" to seek approval from others. It's what causes them to be "nice." They're nice in a covert contract kind of way. That is, they are nice because they want something in return (usually attention, love, etc.) When they don't get it, they'll sometimes flip over to the jerk side. Not nice at all, eh?


The problem isn't with being nice or the definition of a "nice guy". The problem is that too many people think they know what they want, but really don't know WHAT they want. When they get the thing they had wished for, it tends to be different than they had expected.


Few people on a daily basis can decide what they want for lunch so think how hard it is for them to really dig down deep enough to define what it is they want in life and a s/o.


I am a woman who's looking for a nice guy, and here is the criteria for what what goes with a nice guy:

1). Honest
2.) Loyal
3.) Even-tempered
4.) Not a womanizer
5.) Not a cheater
6.) Remembers the important things
7.) Thoughtful towards the other
8.) Loving


You don't want a nice guy. You want a good, balanced man.


It's not very difficult. Just someone who's nice. You can be shy...and nice. Quiet..and nice. Talkative and loud... and nice. Outgoing...and nice. You can be who you are and be nice, just as long as you don't hit me, raise your voice to me unwarranted, call me names or say other hurtful things to hurt me, and put some thought into our relationship. In my specific definition... I prefer when "nice guys" aren't just nice to me but to those wround him as well.


That's why you want someone balanced. I know plenty of balanced, good men that are thoughtful and kind without being "door mats." Remember, in the context of this thread nice guy refers to door mat.


THAT'S ALL IT TAKES!! If you're****, arrogant, conceited, mean, selfish, vengeful, and angry it will be hard to be a nice guy and catch my attention.


The problem is nice guys can also have these traits when they don't get what they want. Look up "covert contract" for more information regarding this.


As for being put on a pedestal... yeah, I guess I do kinda expect that but only because that's what I do when I'm in love and it's best when we're up there together! Overlook my flaws? Hell nah! LOVE ME FOR THEM! And I'll do the same if we're a good match!


The true definition of love is to ACCEPT someone, warts and all, completely and unconditionally. It does not mean to put them on a pedestal. When you put someone on a pedestal you place their value above even your own. That's not healthy and not good for a relationship. It infers you "need" someone. Bad, bad, bad.


I'm sorry that you're jaded, but enough with the bullshit.


I'm not sure why you think I am jaded. As I mentioned, I didn't write this and I posted it merely due to the number of men (incorrectly) assuming women want jerks.


Maybe you just think you're a nice guy and you're really not?


I fit quite well into the definition of a balanced man. I am NOT a nice guy as defined here.


Maybe that's why they turn you away?


Who's turning me away?


Maybe you need to look up the word nice again, and then market yourself for who you really are.


Mmmm, read the post again please. It's obvious you've gotten me mistaken for someone else.
 Jarbarian
Joined: 2/9/2006
Msg: 7
Nice Guy/Balanced/Jerk (defined)
Posted: 5/2/2006 12:32:13 PM

So after examining both of these list, I fall into both the nice guy category and the real man category. Is it possible to exhibit any combination of both areas?


Yes, you can have some but not all the traits of a balanced man. The key thing is to recognize the behaviors that have you fall into the door mat (nice guy) category and work on bringing them back into balance. Balance is where you want to be.


Well, if it isn't, then I guess I just found someway to be a freak. This description oversimplifies things. Are there some good points? Sure. But there is a lot more. Basically, what this is trying to do is to explain, in comparison, the international community by saying that everyone hates the United States. While in theory, this may be true, it is a lot more complicated than that.


Not sure I agree with you. It's a generalization that basically shows where you want to be as a man in terms of your behavior and character traits. It also supports my theory that most, if not all, personal problems are related to a lack of confidence and self-esteem.

If we don't think we're worthy of being loved, if we're not confident we deserve to be - we won't. Again, I love this quote because it explains it perfectly.

"Those who think they can and those who think the can not are both right."

Cheers.
 sassyvgirl
Joined: 4/2/2006
Msg: 8
Nice Guy/Balanced/Jerk (defined)
Posted: 5/2/2006 12:35:28 PM
Whoa, too much to read! I can tell it's more of that David D'Angelo crap you seem to spend a lot of time reading......games
 Ezzee
Joined: 7/26/2004
Msg: 9
Nice Guy/Balanced/Jerk (defined)
Posted: 5/2/2006 12:46:10 PM
I think I'm just going to say that I know I do not know the true answer. I am who I am, and that's all I am, and not knowing, in this area, may be good.

After all, it was Socrates who said that the wisest person of all is the person who knows that they don't know anything.
 Jarbarian
Joined: 2/9/2006
Msg: 10
Nice Guy/Balanced/Jerk (defined)
Posted: 5/2/2006 12:47:55 PM
Whoa, too much to read! I can tell it's more of that David D'Angelo crap you seem to spend a lot of time reading......games


Interesting you say that because

a. I didn't write this (nor did David)
b. I don't agree with David's games but I believe he's right on when he talks about confidence and self-esteem and that's it's OK to be a man. Have you ever read David's stuff at all or are all your comments based on assumptions without facts!?

Funny, people don't want to read it but sure are quick to judge.
 sassyvgirl
Joined: 4/2/2006
Msg: 11
Nice Guy/Balanced/Jerk (defined)
Posted: 5/2/2006 1:17:25 PM
Yes, as a matter of fact, I have read some of his stuff, and while I may find some truth in SOME of it....I still think that it's mostly Playas BS!
When will people just learn to BE who they are!!!!!????? If who you are does not do IT for someone else, then keep looking until you find someone that thinks you are "all that".
Guess the statement should have said it sounds like that David D. BS.....cause it does! IMO
 Country Angel
Joined: 4/12/2006
Msg: 12
Nice Guy/Balanced/Jerk (defined)
Posted: 5/2/2006 1:17:41 PM
Jarbarian,
I can understand why people are getting a bit nasty about the original post. The generalizations about the 'nice guy' are rather demeaning. Essentially the info states that all 'nice guys' have many serious issues. I don't feel that is a fair stereotype. I think I would personally rephrase that to be 'needy, lonely or desperate guy'.

I do wholeheartedly agree with the 'balanced guy' idea though. Absolutely my preference. I have a life and I don't need a man to complete my life; I'd like a man to compliment my life. And the same goes vice versa. If I meet a man who 'needs' a woman to complete them or to give them a life - they can go find someone else to latch onto. I don't have time to provide someone else with activities and a couch mate - I want someone who can join what I do, and I can join what they do (teach eachother new things - such as sports).

The 'bad boy' is basically the 'nice guy' reworded and in shortened form. In my opinion, the 'bad boy' is just as insecure and needy as the 'nice guy'.

And the battle goes on...........
 Jarbarian
Joined: 2/9/2006
Msg: 13
Nice Guy/Balanced/Jerk (defined)
Posted: 5/2/2006 1:23:56 PM

Yes, as a matter of fact, I have read some of his stuff, and while I may find some truth in SOME of it....I still think that it's mostly Playas BS!


No, the man who teaches how to be a "playa" is Tom Leykis and he's a pig. The ONLY good advice he gives is for men to be established and not get married young. Other than that he's a blow-hard, self-righteous pig.


When will people just learn to BE who they are!!!!!????? If who you are does not do IT for someone else, then keep looking until you find someone that thinks you are "all that".


If being who you are is insecure, lacking confidence and self-esteem then I'd disagree with your statement. Lacking confidence and self-esteem effects every aspect/relationship in your life (work, family, dating, etc). Sometimes being who you are is negatively effecting your life and you need to consider some mental "working out."


Guess the statement should have said it sounds like that David D. BS.....cause it does! IMO


It's not but everyone has a right to their opinion :)
 Jarbarian
Joined: 2/9/2006
Msg: 14
Nice Guy/Balanced/Jerk (defined)
Posted: 5/2/2006 1:28:06 PM

I can understand why people are getting a bit nasty about the original post. The generalizations about the 'nice guy' are rather demeaning. Essentially the info states that all 'nice guys' have many serious issues. I don't feel that is a fair stereotype. I think I would personally rephrase that to be 'needy, lonely or desperate guy'.


I guess I didn't make it clear enough. Nice guy in this context refers to a door mat.


I do wholeheartedly agree with the 'balanced guy' idea though. Absolutely my preference. I have a life and I don't need a man to complete my life; I'd like a man to compliment my life. And the same goes vice versa. If I meet a man who 'needs' a woman to complete them or to give them a life - they can go find someone else to latch onto. I don't have time to provide someone else with activities and a couch mate - I want someone who can join what I do, and I can join what they do (teach eachother new things - such as sports).


Awesome!


The 'bad boy' is basically the 'nice guy' reworded and in shortened form. In my opinion, the 'bad boy' is just as insecure and needy as the 'nice guy'.


Actually the "jerk" (or badboy) is more like the balanced guy than the nice guy. What the jerk has in common with a door mat is that they both lack confidence and self-esteem. Whereas the nice guy seeks approval from others by being overly nice, the jerk simply could care less about others and is far, far self-centered. Both of them have deeply rooted confidence issues though, that is clear.

:)
 blue_cat_dude
Joined: 2/20/2006
Msg: 15
Nice Guy/Balanced/Jerk (defined)
Posted: 5/8/2006 10:19:47 PM
I rarely get involved in the forums so please forgive the lack of "hi-lited" quoting.

"When I finally got my act together I actually booted my ex from my house. I had enough of her disrespectful behavior that I decided that the only solution was to remove the problem.

Her.

It's been five months and I just received an email from her as we've been chatting lately. I am more respected by her now than I ever was in the relationship. She's reaching out -- little by little. She even wants to go to lunch." -Jarbarian

By reading this sole portion of your post it would appear that you could be dangerously close to becoming a door mat or nice guy. For evidence in support of this suggestion, I cite description 1.a in that what is taking you back to this failed relationship? Do you not value yourself enough to invest the time in seeking a new love and thus being about to settle for another attempt at a failed love? I also cite description 1.m in questioning whether you will say "no" to the request for lunch.

Please forgive the unsolicited jab to the chin. I do not want to stand in judgment of my fellow man. What you do is your business, but you did offer that info. In raising those points, I only seek to point out the flaws in the shallow definitions provided.

I ask how has the OP (in context provided) changed your life? Defend the "guidance" that you would want others to read and follow.

Also in reading the other posts following this topic, it would seem the majority of the few users who have become involved in this agree with the notion that most don't really know what/who they want. That of course being the smallest of nut shell versions. I'm right along with these folks. I can't state how many times upon getting the toy out of the rice crispy box, I wished I had requested cocoa puffs instead. Dang you Snap, Crackle and Pop!!
 bigdadda
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 16
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Nice Guy/Balanced/Jerk (defined)
Posted: 5/8/2006 11:42:21 PM
Some good info here. I think I fall into the "nice guy" catagory, and "balanced guy" catagory too. I can see how a lot of my nice guy attributes probably contributed to the downfall of my last long term relationship, and why after a while she didn't seem into me any more and neither she nor I could explain why. I am a nice guy by nature I think, but now I see that yes in some ways I am nice because I want that back I guess. That particular relationship was great in the beginning, lots of sex, lots of fun times, etc. That was when I didn't care as much. I would blow her off when she'd invite me over for sex if I was watching something good on TV, I acted like I didn't need her to be happy. Really that's cause that's how I felt at the time. I also spent much more time with my friends, and called her on all her $hi+. Once I said "I love you" though, and once we started spending more time together, it all went down hill. I would buy her stuff and do things for her, not to gain favour(or so I thought), but cause I actually wanted to. When I'm with a girl I like to please her and make her happy, so a gift once in a while is no big deal to me. I started being way more agreeable though, which was not a good thing I see now. I don't think I was ever a total door mat cause I would still say no sometimes and would stand up to her and argue if need be, but I did let a lot of stuff slide once I was in love, cause I didn't want to lose her. It's like once she knew I loved her the balance of power shifted or something(and one thing to remember is the person with control in a relationship is the one who cares least...deny it all you want, but really take the time to think about it, it makes total sense when you break it all down). Now I know that being more agreeable, and letting stuff slide actually made me unattractive to her and pushed her away. Now I know in the future I have to cultivate the additude that I don't need someone else to make me happy.
 AREALANGEL
Joined: 2/5/2006
Msg: 17
Nice Guy/Balanced/Jerk (defined)
Posted: 5/9/2006 2:31:47 AM
I should come up with a thread....when do you have time to create long winding threads....??I am too busy to read everything it says..I need a shortened version please..(getting ready for work)
We don't find the jerks...they show up in costume as nice guys you would like to take home for mom to meet THEN once you get hooked..they reveal the evil-mean-wicked-nasty part of themselves..some can handle it..some don't..
 minigolf
Joined: 1/16/2006
Msg: 18
Nice Guy/Balanced/Jerk (defined)
Posted: 5/9/2006 2:51:28 AM
How many men do you know that are perfect, sound minded, thoughtful 100% of the time?

No human is perfect. We all have a tiny bit of jerk, ****, needy, insecurity, ect. And if you deny this, you probably have more than the rest of us. LMAO
 TheAwesomeGirl
Joined: 9/27/2004
Msg: 19
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Nice Guy/Balanced/Jerk (defined)
Posted: 5/9/2006 7:13:35 AM
Dang, I am just so impressed to see a guy quoting from a book on the Romance genre -- I have that book and am a sucker for the genre, so bravo!
 Poet102781
Joined: 8/22/2005
Msg: 20
Nice Guy/Balanced/Jerk (defined)
Posted: 5/9/2006 10:59:33 AM
Yo can I get some cliff notes on that!!!??
 MichelleRenee
Joined: 4/12/2006
Msg: 21
Nice Guy/Balanced/Jerk (defined)
Posted: 5/18/2006 11:15:58 PM

I didn't write this but guys if you really want to know what women want invest 5 minutes of your time reading this. It will change your life.


you might as well have written it. You don't express that your own view is different so it reads like it is something you agree with.

And dude, it is LOOOOOOOOONG, so yeah, I didn't read the whole thing. I wasn't trying to pick apart every single sentence so I could put it in quotes and comment directly upon it in order to prove you wrong in any way I can think of--like you do.

Your definition of "nice" is screwed up. Nice doesn't mean perfect. Nice people are allowed to get angry, hurt, defensive, annoyed, and whatever whatever. Nice doesn't mean devoid of emotion. But I don't think nice means you are a doormat...that's what I would've kindly called "too nice".

And I really don't think it's a big deal for two individuals in a relationship to put each other up on a pedastal. Why is it bad to look up to the one you love? It's not out of desparation, it's out of admiration and respect. But I really don't even feel like debating that one as it's really not the point.

Anyway, I don't know if the guy who wrote this is your God or something, but I'm just letting you know...that's HIS opinion. Mine is not the same. And I'm a woman who dates nice guys--or at least I try to.

So you can cling to his narrow-minded break-down of what he thinks woman want. Or maybe you can listen to the advice of other women on here who are trying to be honest because we have no reason to lie. OR you can listen to everything and form an opinion of your own.

Good luck!
 JerryInTampa
Joined: 9/28/2004
Msg: 22
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Nice Guy/Balanced/Jerk (defined)
Posted: 5/19/2006 6:12:39 AM
I think the best response you've gotten was probibly the first (FireKnight). He's accurate not only in pointing out that you are speaking in such broad generalities as to be innaccurate, as well as that you ascribe only one of many both motivations and reactions. There's certainly some solid "food-for-thought", but it's written too much in abosolutes.
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