| Finding a Relationship (Battle of Sexes)
Posted: 5/4/2006 5:28:32 PM | Ok, someone earlier today started a debate on one of my other posts. She was suggesting that it is easier for men to find a relationship and that men are in more of a position of control. Well, I think she is smoking crack! So, what is your opinion, who is more in the position of power and control in establishing a relationship, men or women?
Here's my opinion:
Firstly, while the general thing might be that men ask women out on a date, ask women to marry, etc., this is the new millennium! Who says it has to be this way?
Anyway, I strongly believe that women are the one's in 'control'. It might be true that men in most cases do the 'asking', however it is women that do the 'deciding'. Who therefore has the control?
Also, what about insecure, nervous types that may have a billion great qualities. If the social rule is 'true', then a woman can still sit around with hope of being asked out and establishing a relationship. However, the insecure nervous guy will spend his life wishing that he could get the nerve up to ask someone out. I've actually been there. A number of times in life I've gone through phases during which I've had interest in someone but was too scared to ask her out. Experiencing such 'cowardice' doesn't sound very much as being in the position of 'power' or control. Women can be very intimidating. There's the 'power'. | |
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| Finding a Relationship (Battle of Sexes)
Posted: 5/4/2006 5:34:52 PM | Women can ask men out,just as easily as men can ask women out.
Both men and women experience rejection.
If you really want to get into a relationship w/ someone,there shouldn't be a 'control' issue at all. | |
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| Finding a Relationship (Battle of Sexes)
Posted: 5/4/2006 5:37:04 PM | Whoever does the asking and saying yes or no, it still takes a mutual agreement doesn't it? What about the women who wait forever for someone to ask them out, bet they don't feel "in control" either. Just pointing out that I think it's a lot more mutual than you think it is. People can be intimidating, period. Women and men are just usually intimidating in different ways.
And yes it's fine for women to go ask a man out or make the first contact, but you'd be surprised how many men are horrified by that. Read the threads. Some men and I said SOME feel that any woman who asks a man out is either desperate or otherwise seriously flawed. Haven't experienced it firsthand, I'll be honest about that, but I've certainly heard about it enough.
So it goes both ways. Women may want a certain guy to ask them out, and all the other guys do than the one they want. Men may say they would love for a woman to ask them out, but when one does they say no.
As long as people consider dating, romance, etc. either a matter of a power/control play or a battle of the sexes noone's really coming out a winner. Let the controllers and the fighters battle it out, and the rest of us can just say it doesn't matter, and just ask out whoever we want and go enjoy ourselves. Sounds like a plan to me, what do you think?  | |
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| Finding a Relationship (Battle of Sexes)
Posted: 5/4/2006 5:37:39 PM | | I would say the men. A lot of women might not openely admit, but deep down I think they like a masculine man to take control of things and do the approaching and the leading. Of course everyone is different, but I would say guys have a lot of control. | |
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| Finding a Relationship (Battle of Sexes)
Posted: 5/4/2006 5:42:03 PM | | usually men pursue..women decide if they want to be caught or not.. in one sense most women say in a bar or pof setting can choose from a multitude of men whereas it is not generally the same for males... once in a relationship how ever i don't see any generalizations that can be made about who is dominant or in control | |
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| Finding a Relationship (Battle of Sexes)
Posted: 5/4/2006 5:44:16 PM | UGH! Both genders have emotions and MOUTHS. Either one can say at anytime, stop. Or either one at anytime can say, go. The only 'shift' in power is the one you/us choose to give to the other side because of our/your own insecurities. The power/control is 50/50, always has been, always will be (unless you decide to give someone your power, in which case it's still NOT a gender issue, but an personal issue)
You, or anyone, being nervous or intimidated doesn't equal women having all this power...it's in your head darlin'. Do you think women don't get nervous about men sometimes? If I'm feeling insecure about ME, then I hand my power over to someone else by default....does that make it a given that all men have the control??? Nope. Relationships aren't supposed to be about power anyway, it's about getting to know someone, wanting to spend time with them, etc. The whole power thing sounds more like a guy trying to score to me. Just my two cents ;) | |
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| Finding a Relationship (Battle of Sexes)
Posted: 5/4/2006 5:53:51 PM |
She was suggesting that it is easier for men to find a relationship and that men are in more of a position of control.
She is correct.
Women have the greater tendancy to think long-term, while men look more at short-term. Regardless of what a woman says she will always be sizing up a man to see if he's relationship material. Men on the other hand, are more into the instant gratification. If she's "hot", his number one goal is to "do" her. Then, if he's at that stage in his life, he will consider her for girlfriend material.
Most women can get laid pretty much anytime they want, but hooking a guy into long-term is trickier. If a woman is showing a lot of interest in a man, then all he has to do is not screw it up and he'll be in a relationship.
DISCLAIMER:
I do realize these are generalizations, but from simply perusing the different profiles here, I believe my assessment of the differences between the sexes is fairly accurate for most people. | |
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| Finding a Relationship (Battle of Sexes)
Posted: 5/4/2006 7:59:21 PM |
Anyway, I strongly believe that women are the one's in 'control'. It might be true that men in most cases do the 'asking', however it is women that do the 'deciding'. Who therefore has the control?
Sure, Scott - we (females) have the control over who we say yes or no to...
But you also have control in who you approach in the first place.
And really this applies to anyone regardless of gender or sexual preference. We all control who we approach and we all control who we respond to.
You can't tell me that there was no decision making process involved in the asking!! You can decide whether or not to ask... and what to ask for... that is control.
I responded on the other forum thread to this individual that you refer to above and at the risk of repeating myself... well.... I just will - because I think it needs to be said as many times as it takes to get through to people that they have choices in their life - they have the ability to be in control - if someone else is in control it is because they have given over that control.
I, a WOMAN, can and have asked guys out on a date. I, a WOMAN, can and have the right to decide if the relationship will go further. And it is MOST CERTAINLY not limited to the MAN to make the proposal... for gosh sakes... some of us have evolved beyond that MENtality... (pun intended). At the same time, the MAN can say "Yes" or "No" to my date request, the MAN can also decide whether he wants the relationship to go further (beyond the I wanna get me some of that) and the MAN can also say "No" or "Yes" to my proposal... if he chooses at any point to relinquish control over to me (not my type of guy mind you)... then that was HIS decision to do so.
"In my heart, I think a woman has two choices: either she's a feminist or a masochist."
—Gloria Steinem
We all have control over our future and our happiness... it is up to US... men, women, transgendered - whatever you are... you have the ultimate responsibility for what happens in your life.
Life is all about choices right? If you choose to let another gender have the "control" that is the choice you have made - live with it, but do not blame the MEN/WOMEN/DRAG QUEENS/THE GOVERNMENT/THE CHURCH/YOUR MOTHER/WHOMEVER for YOUR choices.
I think at some point all of us have been shy and insecure and unable to make the first move... but again, you indicate that the control was in the hands of the woman of your desire/affection that you were too shy to approach. Did she know this? Is her mere presence taking away your control? I bet she was at the other end of the bar thinking... "God, I wish that hot blonde guy at the end of the bar would come over here and say "HI!" I wish I had the nerve to go over there and say "Hi!".... Oh darn, he's finished his Corona and he's leaving... shoot... I wish I had said something!!" Was anyone really in control of anyone else? No! Your inaction was your action.
Take responsibility... take control! You can remain a masochist and complain that others have all the control or you can take control over your own life and make the change you want to see in your life happen...
"Don't compromise yourself. You are all you've got."
—Janis Joplin
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| Finding a Relationship (Battle of Sexes)
Posted: 5/4/2006 9:49:32 PM | | I think men hold the power. If the man shys away from doing the asking, the woman does not have the opportunity to accept or decline. Now the man may feel intimidated to ask, but he has a 50/50 chance at success. Waiting for the invite that never arrives is a lose-lose for the lady. I know many men who were too passive and afraid to ask me out that have resulted in me losing interest because assertiveness and confidence are appealing qualities but only when displayed. So once I lose interest, they think I surely would have said no anyway... when in fact I more often than not will say yes because you never know. But there are alot of fish out there so I am changing bait if I am not catching something with what I have so to speak. I don't have many eggs so I am not putting too many in one basket. | |
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| Finding a Relationship (Battle of Sexes)
Posted: 5/4/2006 10:03:27 PM | | a couple points that seem way off in watts post.. you say that a man is passive or afraid if he doesn't approach... but you have every chance to approach him.. does that make you passive or afraid.... you say he has a 50/50 chance... any man will tell you that he gets no way more than that.. read some of the forums about no replies etc....so this to me is no indication that men have the power... only that you choose not to approach men | |
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| Finding a Relationship (Battle of Sexes)
Posted: 5/4/2006 10:30:35 PM | | A wise Older Woman (my GrandMa) told me when I was a young man ( and thus scarred me for life) that the person who controls a relationship is the one who needs it least. I read some very interesting opinions here.. and I really think it varries.. I think people who "need" a relationship have more trouble finding lasting ones.. and people who care less end up being more attractive to folks who do. Sad state really.. but I'll be damned if I know how to break the cycle. | |
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| Finding a Relationship (Battle of Sexes)
Posted: 5/5/2006 7:48:47 AM |
he has a 50/50 chance
Watts17,
Wow, I have a 50/50 chance? Ok, how about dinner and then some sex?
According to your suggestion, you are saying that 1/2 the girls on this site or at the bar tonight will say 'yes' to my offer. Hmm, I'm thinking I should really spice up the question into something very kinky! Yes, that's a great idea! Ok, so how about dinner and then some sex with a few of your friends where you and I tie them up and spank them with my boat paddle? Are you still thinking '50/50'?
Lastly, how do you want your eggs in the morning (unfertilized)? Or is that 50/50 also?
Scott
P.S. Was this assertive and confident enough for you? I'll call you when in Calgary! | |
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| Finding a Relationship (Battle of Sexes)
Posted: 5/5/2006 7:51:17 AM |
It's not about battles and it's not about power..its about having respect for one another
RedDragon,
That's about the only thing you said that makes sense! I agree that is how it 'should' be, however that's just another Disney fantasy!
Scott | |
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| Finding a Relationship (Battle of Sexes)
Posted: 5/5/2006 7:59:58 AM |
people who care less end up being more attractive
anariesman,
Your grandmother sounds like a very intelligent, insightfully wise person.
As your statement (as shown above), I agree completely. Having lately taken on an attitude of indifference, even to the point of rude obnoxiousness, I suddenly find myself enjoying apparent appeal. It makes no sense but why question what works!
In seriousness, the suggestion that a relationship is 'needed' indicates a serious social problem. Too many relationships are founded on 'need' in some sick and parasitically dependent or co-dependent basis. A healthy relationship exists only when partners are interdependent, in that their only 'need' is an outlet for their givings. Being in a relationship whereby both partners are committed to maintaining the mutual goal of assisting each other in their personal evolution (becoming the best versions of themselves that they can be) is the only healthy approach to a relationship.
For more information, see:
The Road Less Traveled by M. Scott Peck
The Seven Levels of Intimacy by Mathew Kelly
Love by Leo Buscaglia
Thanks for sharing your grandma's wisdom!
Scott | |
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| Finding a Relationship (Battle of Sexes)
Posted: 5/8/2006 3:03:36 AM | This thread has brought some very interesting and deep dialogue...
Since Scott had put a bet on the results of this thread (On another thread... $100 to the charity of the winner's choice).... I thought I would provide an update:
Based on the postings thus far:
Women are in control - 3 (including Scott's posting and a woman who 'roughs up her dates' - my kind of girl!!)
Men are in control - 3....
and neither gender is in control.... 6...
Scott let me know when you want to send that donation in...
OH! And RedDragon... to answer your question as to whether he is weaned??... The answer is no... he still breastfeeds frequently... haven't found a man yet who was truly weaned from the breast. | |
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| Finding a Relationship (Battle of Sexes)
Posted: 5/8/2006 5:56:53 AM | RE: anariesman
A wise Older Woman (my GrandMa) told me when I was a young man ( and thus scarred me for life) that the person who controls a relationship is the one who needs it least.
What a great post...
Yes now it all makes sense and has scarred me for life too...
If I had of known this earlier I would not be here..
but like you said: how do you break the cycle... Damn
Ask your Grandma this:
So what does that mean that we should look for something mutual??
Does it exist!! | |
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| Finding a Relationship (Battle of Sexes)
Posted: 5/8/2006 6:06:46 AM | I think any power play in regards to the battle of the sexes is an illusion that any gender has.
Things are slowly changing and I have met and spoken with many women who have initiated their relationships so I believe the trend of men needing to do all the asking is slowly fading. It's not as uncommon as some might think that women are the initiators now.
I think if we as singles stop pursuing each other like we were Tbone steaks with ravenous appetites and first try and see the individual beneath the attractive veneer of allure...we could potentially get to a point where deciding to commit on some level is mutual.
Then again if you want to get someone to notice you, you kind of have to get in their face and MAKE them notice you so that's when you have to take responsibility for what you want and hope for with someone, regardless of whether you are the male or female.
The nervous, shy guy or gal stands little to gain from adhering to their "shy" ideas around themselves. Those who are most likely to achieve their goals with any degree of ambition are those who are willing to risk their ego and even rejection to get what they want in relationships, including the pursuit of their "beloved" or aspired mate. | |
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| Finding a Relationship (Battle of Sexes)
Posted: 5/8/2006 6:26:20 AM | Interesting ideas in this one. Here are some more...
Another good text that is relevant is "Evolution of Desire: Human Mating Strategies". What people do in order to attract, keep, lose, and cheat on a mate are explored. On the attraction side, men are still responsible for the initial approach, for being charming, and for using wit and humor to make any time with a new woman. Women on the other hand are still responsibile for the physical attraction and 'receiving' the approach of men.
In the context of online behaviors, there are many factors in play that confound the fundamentals. Men surf more, women are more direct with their online activities; men say too much in their profiles generally and say too little in their initial emails; women don't make many first contacts; people post all kinds of stupid pix - that's gender-nonspecific!.
Anyhow, even though we use electronic means (those who 'date' this way, anyhow) to attract another person, we are still dealing with 200,000 years of inate behavior patterns that are not overcome by technology. So the onus remains on men to do the approaching and to actually have a strategy to be successful. The irony of course is that many men will accept the first willing participant whereas women will more often wait for the bigger better deal and that behavior is magnified online to a great degree.
Good luck all, be well. | |
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| Finding a Relationship (Battle of Sexes)
Posted: 5/10/2006 5:40:21 PM | blastkist As usual, my dear you bring up great points. If anyone thinks that a relationship is any form of battle or fighting, you're so off on the wrong foot. Relationships that are about the power play are doomed. Either to end or to both people living a life of complete misery. Why would anyone with one shred of sense, voluntarily and willingly enter into a relationship that is going to be an endless fight for control? But it happens, I WAS in one of those, but unfortunately that wasn't evident until years and children into it. I married someone who once the vows were spoken, completely changed. It happens I was blindsided, COMPLETELY!! My family, all our friends, even his family were amazed at the not good transformation.
I don't like arguing, most arguments are efforts in frustration and a waste of time. Fighting is even worse. I had enough in that one bad marriage to last a lifetime, more than anyone could ever want, and it WAS about control.
Who won? Neither of us although I came out much better. He is in prison, and I am living well and happier and a fuller life than I've ever had. Only because I walked away, I won't fight.
I choose my battles, and they're few and far between. Battling a member of the opposite sex,.... ain't gonna happen.
Men and women are different in certain areas, but we're more alike than different. If more people could just understand that we're wanting the same things and celebrating the awesome differences. Wow, the world would be such a better place to live.
We should banish all the control freaks to a deserted island and let them fight it out. Those people who want to have a happy life can put down the swords and actually just be honest about wanting to live together peacefully, happily and fully.
A fight takes two, if one walks away the fight is over. Just my thoughts.  | |
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| Finding a Relationship (Battle of Sexes)
Posted: 5/10/2006 7:39:36 PM | I have found that is it the women who are in "control" of the situation. A guy can ask a hundred women out on a date and if none of them say yes, he has no other recourse. The woman is the one who allows the guy to date her or have a relationship with her. The same with sex. If a woman says "No" ain't nothing a guy can do to get it. Look at the Emails here on this site. You can go through and email almost every woman here, and if none of them respond to you then what are you going to do? Nothing. A guy is at the mercy of women. IF none of them want him, he is going to be sitting home alone watching porno's and crying in his beer. If that is him being in control then I sure don't want to be in control LOL
I guess if a woman asks a guy out (extremely rare occurance) then the guy would be in control since he is the one saying yea or nay.
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| Finding a Relationship (Battle of Sexes)
Posted: 5/11/2006 7:49:50 AM | Good point..
You could almost compare it to the Black Widow..
They lure the mate, Mate with him and then kill him and eat him..
Now that is control !! ... What a life !!
The male doesn't stand a chance... | |
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| Finding a Relationship (Battle of Sexes)
Posted: 5/11/2006 8:29:30 AM | LOL One of my tattoo's on my "Life Experience" side (right arm is life experiences, left is spiritual), is a woman in a spiderweb with a Blackwidow Hourglass on her stomach... Seems like many of the women I have met tend to be like that... The tattoo is right below a heart with swords stuck in it and a banner "Love Hurts"....
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| Finding a Relationship (Battle of Sexes)
Posted: 5/11/2006 8:41:52 AM | | I think the whole its easier for either or is a complete myth. I think it is much more related to the things you have going on in your life and whether or not you are actively seeking a relationship. I could probably be in one if I was actively seeking one but I'm not....I guess I think it will just *poof* magically happen when the time is right. | |
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