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yna6
| | Joined: 5/2/2004
Msg: 1 | |
| | Ineffective Parenting Methods.Page 1 of 2 (1, 2) | Just to toss this out there and see what comes up.
I have the feeling that the parents that say "I never hit my kids" seem to have more trouble with those kids later in life than others. I don't mean beat the heck out of them, but I see nothing wrong with corporal punishment being applied for major transgressions. I also do not see the reasoning behind "grounding" a kid when their rooms are full of things like phones, computers, tv's, stereos, whatever. Where is the punishment?
I can't make the blanket statement that ALL kids raised without physical punishment turn out to have what seems to be more than their share of social problems, so I don't want to hear someone trying to say "I don't hit my kids, yet have no problem with them." It is just a matter of time before they DO have a problem.
Any comments? (and not the flame type either...be a bit constructive.) | |
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| Ineffective Parenting Methods.
Posted: 5/16/2006 5:50:32 PM | Well, I grew up in a small town. You know, where everyone knew each other and if you fudged up and your mothers friend saw they'd have no problem whopping your ass and sending you home for another one!
Now, as rotten as the kids were in school (to other kids - to teachers they were ok) I noticed a HUGE difference upon moving to the city and interacting with kids whose parents took the 'children are little adults and need their own respective space blah blah blah' and would rather 'talk' then reinforce issues with a spanking.
The difference was HUGE in that the city kids were much MUCH more 'out of control' than the kids I grew up with.
Now, there are kids who were never spanked and turned out great. And there are kids (like myself) where spanking NEVER worked. It's really a child-per-child sorta thing you know?
It either works, or it doesnt - and if it doesnt find something that does.
If talking to your kid doesnt work, try another approach whether that's spanking or whatever.
I have no issues with spanking and feel that it's a much better reinforcement than talking. Sure I hated getting a 'talking to' but mostly it was because I had to sit there and look like I was paying attention - that was boring and I usually forgot what my parents were saying afterwards. So what lesson did I learn? None. But again, spanking didnt work either - I just didn't really care lmao | |
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| Ineffective Parenting Methods.
Posted: 5/16/2006 9:11:09 PM | If I hit my neighbor kid I go to jail. If I were to hit my son or daughter it's called discipline. I wonder why this hasn't occured to people. I've never seen it stated atleast.
Kids are violent because adults are. | |
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| Ineffective Parenting Methods.
Posted: 5/16/2006 9:57:06 PM | That is entirely untrue.
I've known dozens of kids who were violent and yet had parents who would never raise a hand to them - when they were kids and when they were teenagers. | |
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Posted: 5/16/2006 10:03:14 PM | How exactly does smacking a kid teach them anything but that people who are larger/older can physically assault them?
Hitting teaches hitting. Period.
You say you aren't making a blanket statement & then go on to say that people who don't currently have "problems" with their (un-spanked) kids WILL in the future.... sounds like a blanket statement to me.
~j | |
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| Ineffective Parenting Methods.
Posted: 5/16/2006 11:24:24 PM | | You have to mean what you say, you don't have to spank your kids that's a fact. How do you think it's just a matter of time til they have problems. I have two straight A, non drinking, non drug using, well mannered, trustworthy, teen kids. Who know well anything they want in life must be earned in one way or another. Kids need time, lots of it, and guidance that's honest and firm. One had her last day of high school yesterday and is off to college to study corporate law. The other has 2 years left and plans on studying intellectual property law. I can honestly say since the age of 4 neither has had as much as a smack on the hands. Before the age of 4 they may have had their hands smacked 3 or 4 times. So out of curiosity when do you think the trouble will start with these two? 16 and 18, I'm running out of time wouldn't you say? There is a big difference between never hitting your kids, and never taking the time to teach them to be proper, decent, well mannered, kids, devoid of any discipline. BTW yna6 I actually have alot of respect for you and your posts, they usually show a keen intellect, and a great deal of thought. I'm hoping your talking about the "johnny do that one more time and I'll smack you"(repeat this twenty times and still don't smack him) parents who I would gladly wring the necks of, if it weren't illegal in most countries. | |
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| Ineffective Parenting Methods.
Posted: 5/17/2006 12:50:26 AM | I didn't get spanked as a child & my brothers rarely.
We all have done fine socially & otherwise.
I didn't spank my children,my ex did.
I have had issues concerning 2 of my 3 kids,
though not socially per say.
My conclusion or opinion is spanking has more of a
negative impact than a non-spanking punishment.
You can teach someone anything without the use
of ANY form of abuse.
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| Ineffective Parenting Methods.
Posted: 5/17/2006 7:20:30 AM | | You get better results by talking to children then spanking, I don't spank my child because I chose not to. I was spanked a sa child nothing to be concerned about but my brothers and I got our far share. | |
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| Ineffective Parenting Methods.
Posted: 5/17/2006 7:32:37 AM | I think everyone here makes excellent points, especially the OP and yum/yuck/yikes, and to the latter, one of the things you mentioned is maybe your children got a slap on the hand a few times BEFORE the age of 4.
There's the kick off for my point right there. My son is 7, and I haven't raised a hand or even threatened to since he was 2.
I think there's a big difference between people who think that all discipline, or most of it should be physical, through out the entire childhood, and the parent who might have to be a bit more firm to get a toddler in line.
Every kid has that bratty stage, where they are trying to assert their independance, which is a good thing mind you, but left unchecked can go into outright defiance to all things. When my son was around 2 he was a terror ofcourse, flipping out, screaming like a howler monkey, biting people, and man, was I ever at my wits end. He got a couple of taps with a wooden spoon and a smack or two on the hand, you bet he did.
But you know what though? 6 months later, it was all over. All it took was me saying, and enforcing, that he does not run the show, and he figured it out and life went on.
There's absolutely no need for me to do that kind of thing now, he's to an age of reason, he can figure out the consequences of his behavior, so why on earth would I physically control or punish him?
All I'm saying is there are a lot, not all mind you, some kids are surprisingly mellow, but a lot of kids before 4 need a bit more than a "no!" to simmer down and get in control, but beyond that, it's excessive, wrong, and unnecessary. | |
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Posted: 5/17/2006 7:48:51 AM | | when are people going to realise that spanking and all other physical punishment are abuse pure and simple. if a child can learn that fire can burn without being spanked then he can also learn about other things whitout us beating that into them. | |
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| Ineffective Parenting Methods.
Posted: 5/17/2006 9:33:28 AM | Reading these posts,I am amazed at the mixed feelings I have,being a daycare provider I can never resort to or have wanted to abuse a child,BUT, if I don't show a child what is expected by my own behavior,he she does not know or learn,I have delt with children from many backgrounds,and have found for myself the hardest to get through to are the ones who are accustomed to yelling as disipline,they just don't listen!
and I believe the jewel here is what we hope every child learns is empathy,I have found in my successes and failures is talking about feelings, has a bigger impact than any time out or discipline does. I do a lot of do you remember when,, so and so did that,and how you felt,and how so and so felt, It's a ton of work and it does pay off.
One other thing I'd like to add is do please spend the time to enforce ,or mean what you say, we have many a new child who invariably,would rather be punished than do as expected,I spend way too much time taking those little hands and moving them myself to pick up an activity, my least favorite thing to do with a child whose parent doesn't seem to be able to take the time .
One of my fliers I hand out to new parents says it in a nutshell
Being a bad parent is the hardest job there is
Being a good parent is the hardest Job with benefits
Being a conscience parent effects the world | |
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| Ineffective Parenting Methods.
Posted: 5/17/2006 10:01:57 AM | You are right on the money there lostagain. Especially on the yelling. If you yell at kids constantly, how the heck are they going to know when your serious? I never raise my voice at my son unless it's a matter of danger. You don't want a kid running out in the middle of traffic and you say MOVE! and them ignore you, or even worse ask "why?" they should just MOVE! I've always found that I use discipline and yelling very sparingly, because the way I was raised it was always shouting and no no no, even when it didn't really matter. As a kid I was very frustrated and doubted myself a lot because I never knew the reason why ANYTHING and EVERYTHING I did was wrong, and yea it affected my self esteem, you bet it did.
There are those days in every parents life where your kid is just driving you clear up the wall, you don't know why, maybe it's them, maybe it's you, but your going nuts. It's days like that where you really have to watch what you say and do so carefully, and really ask yourself if what your doing is neccesary or helpful.
I think people in general and especially kids are allowed to have a rough day every once in a while, and I'm not going to get on him if he's misbehaving because he's in a bad mood or overwhelmed. I'm going to try to help the mood and by doing so stop the bad behavior, instead of punishing the bad behavior and putting him a worse mood.
You mentioned empathy and man is that EVER important. You need to take every opportunity given to you to put your kid in someone elses shoes. Children are naturally self centered, and empathy , in my opinion is not something we're born with. While out and about, with members of your family or even shows on tv, you have to find those little morals and lessons that can be shown in others behavior that can help your child understand what it's really like to be human. | |
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Posted: 5/17/2006 10:37:29 AM | When I first got kids I was clueless and just went by how I was raised. That didn't work so well so I sought advice, from other parents and from books. It's out there, and it works if you follow it. But you have to have an open mind and work on understanding the principles behind the methods, not just pick and choose what you already agree with and what seems easiest. You know when you understand something: you can state both sides, pro and con.
What I learned, and what worked for me, was that kids are actually smaller versions of real people, only they have comical, absurd minds that require some guidance. They already come with built-in motivations, such as the desire to love and be loved, to be happy, to please, to avoid pain, and so on. I found that by knowing what motivated the kids I could guide them away from what they didn't want, towards what they did. Once they saw the clear path they were off like rockets.
Spanking children dispassionately sends the message you will hurt them and not care that it hurts. Spanking them in anger or frustration sends the message, get people to do what you want by hurting them when you get angry and frustrated. There isn't a good way to spank.
Children are little near-sighted choice making machines. They have great impulsive desires and very little knowledge of how to get what they want. the role of a teacher and parent is to illuminate the choice, so the child may see it for themselves. This sets up the habits of looking for options and choosing wisely. Other strategies based on external reward and punishment teach children to create and resolve conflict with physical and emotional violence. | |
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| Ineffective Parenting Methods.
Posted: 5/17/2006 10:54:20 AM | I used to believe in corporal punishment but I've changed my stance on that.
I think as long as you're consistant with children and show them you're serious and not just blowing hot air when you tell them something, then you shouldn't have to resort to hitting.
I've seen it in small ones, that when they get upset and act out, what they need is love and understanding, not anger. | |
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Posted: 5/17/2006 1:20:16 PM | | All children learn differently. Some children can be lectured on their disobedience and learn from it while other children are more receptive when you have a red hand. | |
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Posted: 5/17/2006 2:53:09 PM | | The only real discipline in life is self discipline. Teach that, exhibit that, teach them to make responsible decisions and all will be fine. "Spanking" is counter productive. It makes the parent the bad guy instead of the behavior. MAKE THE BEHAVIOR THE BAD GUY. | |
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Posted: 5/17/2006 3:02:27 PM | There were times as a child when I didn't listen at all. I wasn't spanked often--actually quite rarely. But I'm unsure that my parents had any other choice. At times I simply wouldn't listen to them no matter what they said. I did after being spanked.
Geez, I hope that, when I have kids, they aren't like me. | |
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Posted: 5/17/2006 4:03:23 PM | I've found that after warning my daughter by doing the 1,2,3, count before smacking her as a toddler has proven that I mean what I say... now I very rarely have to smack her as the threat is enough.
Having said that, when I do lose my temper with her I tend to make her stay in her room until both of us have calmed down, then I'll explain what made me angry at her (usually not doing as repeatedly asked). My problem with her at the moment is that I'm getting a lot of attitude from her as she seems to be under the impression that her teacher deserves more respect then her mother... time for a word with the teachers me thinks... | |
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Posted: 5/17/2006 5:03:17 PM | To those of you who responded to me like I made a definite remark, you know who you are, I believe I clearly stated that it's a "child-by-child" situation. What works for one child will not necessarily work for another.
I never said anyone that does not spank their kids WILL have problems with them; I said that from many (though not all) those I know who were NEVER reprimanded or disciplined in any way, shape or form, have behavior issues today. That does not mean absolutely every single child that was never disciplined has issues, and it does not mean that every child that was disciplined has no issues.
The whole hitting kids will create kids who hit - I was spanked and I'm not violent - so I guess there goes your definite thought pattern huh?
Next time, don't look like an idiot and read into something that is not there. Learn to actually read what someone states and not twist it to try and work for your benefit.
Manipulators are incredibly immature.
If not spanking works for you - then kudos to you. But who are you to tell others what works for them? No one's up here saying you SHOULD spank your kids if you want to be a good parent - so why do people jump on here saying that if you do spank you're a violent parent etc? I mean, give me a break.
ETA: My dad did not believe in spanking - but my mom did. And you know who I have trouble relationship wise with now? My dad. He yelled, a lot. He is passive agressive, blows his top, threatens, gets beligerent, angry, and then 5 min after screaming for a half hour comes in and says he's sorry. THAT is far more damaging then getting your ass paddled because you told your mom to kiss your behind, or lied about stealing money from her purse. | |
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Posted: 5/17/2006 8:17:02 PM | Just knowing that you will punish them is enough to stop most kids from doing things they know will really piss you off. When my kids were little, I smacked their bottoms or hands, more for effect that punishment. It does not hurt a two year old to get smacked on the diaper, but believe me, it DOES get their attention. They know what they've done is unacceptable and won't do it again without feeling a twinge of something.. I used to babysit for a few neighbours. One had a daughter who was always reasoned with, to no avail, She was constantly hurting her baby sister on purpose because she didn't get consequences. One day, she hit the baby with a knitting needle A huge one, about 3/4 inches in diameter, and laughed that she could do whatever she wanted. So, I smacked her with the same knitting needle and told her 'That's what it feels like.Do you like it?' She is 25 and still remembers that day, the day she learned that there ARE consequences to some actions. She never hurt the sister again after that, either.
sometimes you have to use corporal punishment to prove a point. | |
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Posted: 5/17/2006 8:42:51 PM | halokitty, i certainly hope you weren't talking to me...because *I* was responding to the OP. and i have pretty good close-reading skills.
but i would like to know who you are calling an idiot? | |
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yna6
| | Joined: 5/2/2004
Msg: 23 | |
| Ineffective Parenting Methods.
Posted: 5/17/2006 8:47:28 PM | I've read over what has been posted, and stand by what I did say originally.
It seems a lot of people do hit their kids...when they are small, and use that threat in later years.
Some kids do not get hit, but do get some form of reprimand that is effective. This is a good thing. What bothered me was the ineffectivness of some forms of punishment. Does punishment really correct behaviour patterns? Or does setting the example do so? Sometimes it is hard to say.
I must agree that with each child, it is different.
I have seen kids being very picky with their food. In this home, it is "Eat what is in front of you or go hungry." the kids do not have a problem with this at all, and have asked to not be served certain things, which is ok by us. Like canned fish (tuna, salmon)..fine. We don't serve that when they are here. They do get fish though, in the form of fillets or cakes. their favourites are more often served, especially ham, mashed potatoes and brown gravy. Kid even asks beforehand if extra ham was made!
I've seen kids acting up in restaurants and the parents allow them to annoy other patrons to the point where the ones being disturbed have told the parents to control their kids. Which usually ends up in an outraged parent screaming at the victim of their kids bad behaviour.
I've seen kids pull off some beautiful things though. Like helping baby sister to learn to ride a bike. Showing the little ones how to eat homemade jam straight from the pot with a spoon. Making sure the smaller ones get a fair share of the goodies. Ok...some of those I can be proud of, some, like the jam, somewhat less so. But then again, dad made that jam just for them, so.....and it was at their moms place it happened. I chided them on it when I found out, while biting my inner lip to keep from bursting out laughing. Whole inside of my mouth has bite marks because of this trick. Sheesh. | |
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Posted: 5/17/2006 8:48:13 PM |
My problem with her at the moment is that I'm getting a lot of attitude from her as she seems to be under the impression that her teacher deserves more respect then her mother... time for a word with the teachers me thinks.
teachers can have a lot more influence than parents. mine is like that but I don't really see the need to talk to the teacher about it. it's counter productive. | |
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Posted: 5/18/2006 5:28:38 AM | I agree that teachers influence our kids a lot and most usually in a positive way. My concern is when she won't listen to me because I'm not her teacher.
I'm not going to yell and shout at the teachers or anything like that (having re-read my post I can see how that impression may come across), just ask if they can help me to reassert my position as an authority figure that should to be listened to as she does with her teachers.  | |
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