| Physics teacher under fire for gun experiment
Posted: 5/25/2006 6:14:41 AM | http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/05/25/TEACHER.TMP
MILL VALLEY
Physics teacher under fire for gun experiment
Parent's complaint raises issue about legality of stunt
Peter Fimrite, Chronicle Staff Writer
Thursday, May 25, 2006
Every year, physics teacher David Lapp brings his Korean War era M-1 carbine to school, fires a shot into a block of wood and instructs his students to calculate the velocity of the bullet.
It is a popular experiment at Mill Valley's Tamalpais High School, where students are exposed to several unique stunts that Lapp performs in his five classes every year to illustrate inertia, velocity and other complex formulae.
Turns out, it also may be illegal.
It is a felony to bring any rifle, loaded or unloaded, onto a school campus without the written permission of the school district superintendent or his designee, according to Marin County District Attorney Ed Berberian.
Actually firing a gun inside a classroom would, in all probability, be considered a "reckless discharge" and could bring about harsher punishment under Penal Code section 626.9, better known as the Gun-Free School Zone Act of 1995.
The problem of guns in schools has been a particularly emotional issue, especially since two students went on a rampage and killed 15 people at Columbine High School, in Littleton, Colo., on April 20, 1999.
Through it all, though, the focus has always been on students with guns. Nobody expected teachers to bring firearms to school.
"I'm hoping that this is not happening in Marin County," said Berberian, who groaned when informed that it was. "If he just did this in an open classroom with a block of wood, there could be ricochets. That in itself would be a presumption of recklessness."
The rifle demonstration would not even be an issue if an anonymous parent had not complained.
Lapp, a former military police officer who has been teaching for 20 years, said it is the first complaint ever lodged against the so-called "ballistic pendulum" experiment, which he contends is completely safe.
The .30-caliber bullet, he said, is fired into a foot-long, 8-pound block of wood hanging by cords from a ceiling mount. The students take measurements of the block's movement and mass and use that information to calculate bullet speed.
He said he fires the shot from point-blank range with all the students standing behind him, so there is no danger of an accident or ricochet. There has never been an injury or close call, he added.
"I've been doing this for years," said Lapp, who skipped two or three years after Columbine. "The students love it. They ask about it very early on in the year. It's one of the more exciting demonstrations."
Exciting is not the word, said Ted Feinberg, the assistant executive director for the National Association of School Psychologists.
"It's just absolute madness, from my point of view," said Feinberg, one of the founding members of the National Emergency Assistance Team, which has responded to most of the school shootings in the country. "It is not only crazy in concept, in light of the world we live in it is absolutely irresponsible."
Feinberg said he is shocked that a teacher would bring a gun to school in the wake of tragedies like Columbine, regardless of the educational purpose.
"Were there not other ways of illustrating whatever physical principles he was trying to demonstrate?" Feinberg asked. "What's the message we are giving bringing a loaded gun into a public setting and firing it off. It's a terrible model to project on students."
Lapp, who served in the Army from 1977 to 1980, became a teacher in 1986. He said he and the former Tamalpais High principal checked the legality of the experiment when he first started doing it around 1992 and determined that there were no laws against it. It has recently been done with the full written consent of Principal Chris Holleran.
Although Bob Ferguson, the current superintendent of the Tamalpais Union High School District, was unaware of the experiment, both Lapp and Holleran said they believed the ballistic pendulum experiment was legal.
"It is certainly something that one pauses about, but we felt that it was something that was OK because of the educational value," Holleran said. "Most students get a lot out of it. It's an interesting and dramatic example of physics in action."
Holleran said school administrators and the district will review the legality of the experiment and immediately make changes if, in fact, what Lapp is doing is illegal.
Unusual experiments are a hallmark of Lapp's five physics classes, two of which are honors courses. In addition to the ballistics test, Lapp also lies on a bed of nails and invites students to break a cinder block on his chest with a sledge hammer.
"It's a demonstration of Newton's law of inertia," he said.
In another experiment, Lapp cooks a steak in 15 seconds between two sheets of metal that are hooked up to a wall outlet.
"If you were a senior in high school and you were wondering what the relevance of high school was, it would be much more authentic if you measured actual things, like the speed of a bullet," Lapp said. "It lends authenticity to a classroom."
It is not clear what will happen now, but, Holleran said, if the school's approval of Lapp's experiment was a mistake, it was in an attempt to reach out in an innovative way to teenagers.
"He's a terrific teacher who does a lot of wonderful things to bring physics to life," Holleran said. "The students really get a lot out of his class, so we provide him with a lot of latitude. We've never had complaints about (the ballistic pendulum experiment), and it has probably been done in front of 900 to 1,000 students over the years." | |
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| Physics teacher under fire for gun experiment
Posted: 5/25/2006 7:36:24 AM | I think people are over reading this, and should look at the positive of this situation.
Here is a teacher, who has his class wanting to learn. He has done what many can't and that is hold the kids attention span. Its not like he is bringing it in for show and tell. Its a teaching aide.
Just my 2 cents. | |
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| Physics teacher under fire for gun experiment
Posted: 5/25/2006 7:54:12 AM | My best ever teacher taught me chemistry.
He used to blow things up. Let me tell you, stoichiometry is a hell of a lot more interesting when you're doing it to see just how the boom happened, than when you're calculating how a liquid turned from clear to gray.
He used to keep an old glass coke bottle full of hydrogen and oxygen beneath his desk. If someone dozed off in his class, he'd keep talking while he pulled it out, shook it up, lit a candle, and then lit it off. Noone slept in his class (although a few of us may have been guilty of feigning sleep just to make things exciting).
Each year he'd take a class of average students and get them so hugely interested in his subject. You simply couldn't be bored in his class.
This sounds like the same kind of teacher. Those types of teachers should be encouraged.
J | |
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| Physics teacher under fire for gun experiment
Posted: 5/25/2006 12:55:44 PM |
The aim of mediocrity is to seek and destroy every last vestige of brilliance.
but what if the bullet misses, penetrates target or somehow richochets off something behind it and kills some kid?
Wouldn't that be another more ominous way to "destroy brilliance"?
I think some of these military guys get off too much on showing how tough they are...This seems inappropriate... as well as VERY dangerous! | |
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| Physics teacher under fire for gun experiment
Posted: 5/25/2006 1:15:18 PM | The teacher KNEW it was ILLEGAL to even bring in an EMPTY GUN WITH NO BULLETS. LET ALONE SHOOT THE GUN FOR AN EXPERIMENT. Sounds like the teacher needs to look for another job, BEFORE HE LOSES THIS ONE.          | |
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| Physics teacher under fire for gun experiment
Posted: 5/25/2006 1:36:00 PM |
"but what if.....?
That seems to be the favourite comment of critics these days who always manage to see something sinister in anything anyone does these days, that is a little out of the ordinary.
What if... my Chemistry Master had never explained the dangers of acids, alkalines and various other combinations of chemicals, and actually demonstrated this during classes....would I have had respect for them when I encountered them as an adult and questioned some misuses in industries I've been in?
What if...my Woodworking Master had not insisted on strict shop safety at all times, would I have learnt respect for machinery and again, been able to question safety standards in industries I worked in?
What if..my Metalworking Master had not explained the dangers associated with welding, forging and working with tools producing wickedly sharp scrap, and spinning ata speed that can rip a finger or an arm off in a fraction of a second..once more, would I have been able as an adult to point out poor shop practices in industry?
What if my Physics Master had not worked in conjunction with all of the above to cover both theory and practice of these things as we would meet them in the Real World once we entered into it?
It IS dangerous out there..and all too often employers rely on the ignorance of those they employ to have them work in hazardous conditions..I've downed tools and walked out of enough places for that reason.
Maybe this Teacher's experiment served two purposes...one for the physics experiment, and the maths needed to do the calculation, the second to show the effect of a bullet into wood and the distance it travels along with the damage it can do
If nothing else it MAY let some intelligent minds stop and think about ever owning or using one.
If I were that Teacher, now facing the 'Fire strorm ( pun intended)'..I think my next class would include wrapping one of the students in a vast amount of cotton wool, along with explaining that this is how some parents would like you to think of the world, and how I am supposed to teach you it is.! | |
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| Physics teacher under fire for gun experiment
Posted: 5/25/2006 2:16:57 PM | | The experiment is an interesting idea, because it introduces students to the very real forces generated when a bullet is fired from a gun. HOWEVER, the teacher should have made the experiment a field trip, with a proper shooting range functioning as the laboratory. I am sure most ranges would be able to accommodate such a thing if arrangements are made well in advance. | |
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| Physics teacher under fire for gun experiment
Posted: 5/25/2006 2:58:25 PM | The teacher DIDN'T know it was illegal.
Lapp, who served in the Army from 1977 to 1980, became a teacher in 1986. He said he and the former Tamalpais High principal checked the legality of the experiment when he first started doing it around 1992 and determined that there were no laws against it. It has recently been done with the full written consent of Principal Chris Holleran.
Although Bob Ferguson, the current superintendent of the Tamalpais Union High School District, was unaware of the experiment, both Lapp and Holleran said they believed the ballistic pendulum experiment was legal.
It is a felony to bring any rifle, loaded or unloaded, onto a school campus without the written permission of the school district superintendent or his designee, according to Marin County District Attorney Ed Berberian.
Actually firing a gun inside a classroom would, in all probability, be considered a "reckless discharge" and could bring about harsher punishment under Penal Code section 626.9, better known as the Gun-Free School Zone Act of 1995.
In 1992, when he started doing the experiment, it WAS legal. The law changed 3 years later.
As for the possibility of ricochets or flying spinters, the whole point of the expirement is to measure the energy absorbed by the block of wood when the bullet hits. If the bullet ricocheted or threw splinters, it would not be imparting its whole energy to the block of wood, and therefore would make the experiment useless. Also:
The .30-caliber bullet, he said, is fired into a foot-long, 8-pound block of wood hanging by cords from a ceiling mount. The students take measurements of the block's movement and mass and use that information to calculate bullet speed.
He said he fires the shot from point-blank range with all the students standing behind him, so there is no danger of an accident or ricochet. There has never been an injury or close call, he added.
It would be good to know if there was a backstop in place. Given the Lapp's background in the military, he would likely be familiar with guns AND the damage they can do. MOST people who have used firearms professionally are serious about the risks, and would have a backstop in place.
A range would have been the best place for the experiment, however.
J | |
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| Physics teacher under fire for gun experiment
Posted: 5/25/2006 4:16:59 PM | | Ignorance of the law is still a crime. Ask any cop. That teacher is burned out of his teaching skills. He needs to teach at the FBI training center, in Quantico, VA. | |
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| Physics teacher under fire for gun experiment
Posted: 5/25/2006 6:09:03 PM | Yikes. It looks like the PC Over-protective squad is at it again!
Sheesh, instead of lambasting the guy, they should look at how many years he's been able to pull experiments of this nature off without injury or incident. They should STUDY him and replicate it (perhaps under "safer" conditions if need be). | |
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| Physics teacher under fire for gun experiment
Posted: 5/26/2006 1:37:02 AM | | Sounds like an awesome experiment to witness. Nothing is better to motivate young minds than exciting experiments like this. In the USA, a lot of money is thrown at education, and the results are not seen. This guy does something to excite studennts and gets people interested in science. Those are positive results, and results are hard to argue with. There should me more teachers like this so that the money thrown at education would get positive results instead of continually declining test scores and scientific apathy. | |
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longte
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Joined: 10/18/2004
Msg: 13 | |
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| Physics teacher under fire for gun experiment
Posted: 5/26/2006 6:42:30 AM | Burned out? BURNED OUT!?!?
W T F !
"I've been doing this for years," said Lapp, who skipped two or three years after Columbine. "The students love it. They ask about it very early on in the year. It's one of the more exciting demonstrations."
"It is certainly something that one pauses about, but we felt that it was something that was OK because of the educational value," Holleran said. "Most students get a lot out of it. It's an interesting and dramatic example of physics in action."
Unusual experiments are a hallmark of Lapp's five physics classes, two of which are honors courses. In addition to the ballistics test, Lapp also lies on a bed of nails and invites students to break a cinder block on his chest with a sledge hammer.
"He's a terrific teacher who does a lot of wonderful things to bring physics to life," Holleran said. "The students really get a lot out of his class, so we provide him with a lot of latitude. We've never had complaints about (the ballistic pendulum experiment), and it has probably been done in front of 900 to 1,000 students over the years."
I could only hope and dream that my children get a similarly "burned out" teacher sometime during their school careers. I had ONE. Only one who managed to bring the subject to life, and make it exciting and real. Imagine what it would be like if we could get a teacher who does that for each and every class!
Jeff | |
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yna6
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Joined: 5/2/2004
Msg: 15 | |
| Physics teacher under fire for gun experiment
Posted: 5/26/2006 8:52:41 AM | A guy uses real world technology to actually show a student the applications of what they are learning and some PC twit decides to raise heck about it. Usual state of affairs.
Showing kids is what teaching skills are all about. You can teach a kid to sew, by explaination, but you have to allow them to take a dangerous pointy metal object and actually do the work and see how they do with it. Showing velocity and how it is measured is just another way to show them what can be done.
a hydrogen cannon was used in my school...till it went off and shot the lighting fixtures down. Ah well. No doubt some parent would be freaking out about it all. | |
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| Physics teacher under fire for gun experiment
Posted: 5/26/2006 9:43:58 AM | | It's sad that a great teacher may be in trouble for doing an outstanding job. Yes, violence in schools is a problem that government is trying to diminish, but government may send some of those kids from that classroom do die in Iraq or Afghanistan in a few years. Learning about physics in a way that conveys the lesson may well help save their lives in the future. | |
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| Physics teacher under fire for gun experiment
Posted: 5/26/2006 5:37:59 PM | As a parent, and a grandparent. I would not want a renegade teacher doint his own thing. Why is it so hard for people not to ask the assistant principle his advice first? In the job I work at, which is a county, you have to clear everything you do, since it affects the clients, which ALSO HAPPEN TO MINORS UNDER THE AGE OF 21 Y/O. THE PARENTS OF SAID MINOR SCHOOL AGED TEENS OR ELEMENTARY OR WHATEVER AGED STUDENTS, HAVE a right to know what is being presented to their kids. ESPECIALLY IN REGARDS TO: F I R E A R M S.
Some you you folks just like to flap your gums without thinking everything through.
Yes, I said for the minors of under the age of 21. Thats right...   | |
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| Physics teacher under fire for gun experiment
Posted: 5/26/2006 6:39:01 PM | | Dahliakitten, ok, what ideas do you have for teaching physics that makes the subject resonate and excite young minds? Can you design a momentum/kinetic energy experiment that rivals this experiment so that the ideas are firmly cemented into these students? | |
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| Physics teacher under fire for gun experiment
Posted: 5/26/2006 9:05:37 PM |
He said he and the former Tamalpais High principal checked the legality of the experiment when he first started doing it around 1992 and determined that there were no laws against it. It has recently been done with the full written consent of Principal Chris Holleran. From the original article.
As a parent, and a grandparent. I would not want a renegade teacher doint his own thing. Why is it so hard for people not to ask the assistant principle his advice first? In the job I work at, which is a county, you have to clear everything you do, since it affects the clients, which ALSO HAPPEN TO MINORS UNDER THE AGE OF 21 Y/O. THE PARENTS OF SAID MINOR SCHOOL AGED TEENS OR ELEMENTARY OR WHATEVER AGED STUDENTS, HAVE a right to know what is being presented to their kids. ESPECIALLY IN REGARDS TO: F I R E A R M S. By Dahlia
What does the assistant principal have to do with it? I assume you meant the teacher should ask his supervisor for permission. In the original article it states that he did. Perhaps you should go back to reading comprehension and leave the physics to others. You used the wrong form of principal/principle. Your grammer and spelling are also atrocious. Perhaps instead of just the reading comprehension you should sign on for a full load of remedial elementary education. | |
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| Physics teacher under fire for gun experiment
Posted: 5/27/2006 12:47:44 AM | Sounds to me like Dahlia has a problem with firearms period and once she heard the word gun drew her conclusion to block out the rest of the article and focus on GUN = BAD.
I personally would commend the man on a job well done. The reason we have so many sucky teachers out there that don't give two hoots about education just about getting their paycheck each week is because good teachers like this guy go where the money is and their work is appreciated.  | |
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| Physics teacher under fire for gun experiment
Posted: 5/27/2006 6:40:51 AM | You know, I'd argue that the reason we have so few good teachers is even worse. You can motivate someone through pride, even if you can't pay them well.
You can't motivate someone who gets slapped down for innovation, and attemptimg to perform. Too often teachers are in fear of the consequences of doing anything "outside the curriculum". The chem teacher I spoke of earlier was able to escape this by being independently wealthy. He had no need of the job (and in fact was long past retirement age), he did it because he enjoyed it. The worst they coudl do to him was take away his fun (not much of a threat to someone pushing 80).
J | |
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| Physics teacher under fire for gun experiment
Posted: 5/27/2006 11:43:58 AM | | I agree with you too a point on that pride issue only I said appreciated. However, when push comes to shove a man has to take care of his own. This teacher I am sure is not in it for the money or he would be using his skills and knowledge elsewhere and making far more. However crap like this just may be enough to make him say is it worth it. I could make more with less hassle in the private sector. My youngest brother is a school councelor and is continually being courted by the pivate secter with offers of 2 to 3 times the income. Let him run into an issue like this and I know he would say enough is enough and go for the green and appreciation. I would! | |
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rks58
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Joined: 1/28/2006
Msg: 23 | |
| Physics teacher under fire for gun experiment
Posted: 5/28/2006 12:37:18 AM | There are two sides to this.
Innovative teaching and experimentation is great for kids. It does engage them and make them more interested. We blow things up, set things on fire, etc. on a regular basis and the kids love it.
But I think the people who are concerned with this have a point. If a block of wood with a hidden knot can snap a table saw blade and send it flying across a room it can deflect a bullet. I don't think he really planned out all the safety considerations.
It probably wouldn't have been an issue if he had used something less powerful (like a handgun) and a water chamber or a target like ballistic gel | |
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longte
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Joined: 10/18/2004
Msg: 24 | |
| Physics teacher under fire for gun experiment
Posted: 5/28/2006 12:44:12 AM | Some little handgun like a 357 magnum maybe??
M1 Carbines are virtually harmless compared to that
Using a target like Ballistic Gel would nullify the reason for the experiment, as it would simply 'absorb' the impact
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rks58
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Joined: 1/28/2006
Msg: 25 | |
| Physics teacher under fire for gun experiment
Posted: 5/28/2006 3:43:10 AM |
Using a target like Ballistic Gel would nullify the reason for the experiment, as it would simply 'absorb' the impact
The wood also absorbs the impact of the bullet. The velocity of the bullet is calculated by the distance the block of a given mass moves. They can arrive at the velocity of the bullet by the distance it travels through the gel as well. You might have to give them an arbitrary time for the bullet to decelerate to a dead stop but ballistic gel usually stops the bullet slowly enough that you can actualy measure the time (depending on the load)
Some little handgun like a 357 magnum maybe??
Now your just being silly | |
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