| The UK's Stance on Abortion [CLOSED - Redundant]
Posted: 5/25/2006 4:06:05 PM | I've done a thread search and yes there's a few on abortion but none on the UK forum.
So here's my question:
The USA is currently going through huge abortion issues and looks to end up having an almost statewide ban, unless there's medical reasons (possibly a few others but the argument - sorry debate - still goes on).
I was just wondering on the UK public's opinion, should abortions be banned in the UK as they are in Ireland, or should we continue offering the option?
Personally I'm pro abortion; I feel that a woman should have the right to choose (yes contraception should be the first choice, but no contraception is 100%), if the option to abort were removed a lot of babies would be born into loveless homes, or bad conditions... (and ok, that happens currently too, but think how the numbers would rise). Then there's the medical aspect (see the downs thread) and quality of life. There are so many children abandoned to the government or removed from families that need homes already, take away the option of abortion and there'd be so many more. What quality of life do these children stuck in homes get?
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| The UK's Stance on Abortion
Posted: 5/25/2006 4:19:15 PM | Personally I think abortions are wrong, legalized murder,
and there's no point trying to rationalize it by talking about
quality of life as you do not know what that child might go
onto achieve.
Also I think you'll find that most people who have abortions
do not do it on the grounds of their wealth. I mean how many
people put there career first, before a childs life. Its just wrong. | |
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| The UK's Stance on Abortion
Posted: 5/25/2006 4:23:51 PM | | Well my first point is that any abortions should be completely self financed by the abortee. | |
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*Em*
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Joined: 6/29/2005
Msg: 4 | |
| The UK's Stance on Abortion
Posted: 5/26/2006 12:00:12 AM | abortions are wrong and its becomming increasingly easy to have one. i know of too many women who have opted for abortions as an easy way out of a tough situation.
unless there are medical grounds or extreme reasons such as rape-then my view is you carry that child and you either make the best of a bad situation or you give your child up for adoption. there are MANY childless couple out there who cannot have their own and who are on waiting lists to adopt babies.
just my op  | |
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| The UK's Stance on Abortion
Posted: 5/26/2006 1:36:06 AM | I am totally against them Jin, but sadly its not a perfect world, your arguments are all valid. But I do think it is time that it was not treated as an easy option. Education is the biggest thing, also family values, so many aspects of our society is going wrong and its time we went backwards with ideas but remembered what we have learned, too many changes are made in our society without a proper look at the implications in the long term.
One little point I keep thinking of in this, is that I know a girl who is about 22 now who had to endure the heart breaking news that she can never have a child, and the many women out there who would trade there soul to have a child, so why can't we put the two together , somehow it seems it's a god given right to be able to get pregnant, can't we make it a compassionate right to have a child? | |
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| The UK's Stance on Abortion
Posted: 5/26/2006 11:31:16 AM | Fates Gate: Abortions are generally performed before the 1st trimester. During this period the feotus is a blob of cells busy developing. It isn't a baby, it's not aware, it has no brain! You cannot define this as a baby, yes it may develope into one but at the time of abortion it is just a bunch of cells.
I feel for the women unable to have children, but given the amount of children in homes and foster care waiting for adoption...; below are a few of the numbers I found for the UK. Notice how the adoption rate drops the older the child gets, how much self worth do you think the children overlooked time and time again still have?
60,900 children were in the care of local authorities on 31st March 2005
Gender
55% (33,700) of children looked after on 31st March 2005 were boys and 45% (27,200) were girls
Age
5% (2,800) of children looked after on 31st March 2005 were under 1 year old
14% (8,700) were aged between 1 and 4 years old
20% (12,100) were aged between 5 and 9 years old
44% (26,500) were aged between 10 and 15 years old
18% (10,800) were aged 16 and over
Placements
68% (41,700) were living with foster carers
11% (7,000) of children looked after on 31st March 2005 were living in children's homes
9% (5,700) were living with their parents
5% (3,100) were placed for adoption
5.5% (3,300) were in other placements such as residential schools, lodgings and other residential settings
Unaccompanied Asylum Seeking Children
2,900 unaccompanied asylum seeking children were looked after on 31st March 2005
70% (2000) were boys and 30% (880) were girls
Adoption Orders
Figures on adoption orders apply to adoptions by relatives and step-parents as well as adoptions from care.
5,680 adoption orders were made in England and Wales during 2002
5,354 adoption orders were made in England and Wales during 2003
Adoptions from Care
3,800 children were adopted from care during the year ending 31st March 2005
Gender
51% (1,900) of children adopted during the year ending 31st March 2005 were boys and 49% (1,800) were girls
Age
The average age at adoption was 4 years 2 months
5% (210) of children adopted during the year ending 31st March 2005 were under 1 year old
62% (2,300) were aged between 1 and 4 years old
28% (1,100) were aged between 5 and 9 years old
4% (170) were aged between 10 and 15 years old
0% (20) were aged 16 and over
Now think how the figures would rise if abortions were banned, the system is struggling as it is and desperate for foster homes. What would you have them do with the excess? | |
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| The UK's Stance on Abortion
Posted: 5/26/2006 11:36:43 AM | | I think abortions shouldn't be banned, but I do think we should have a certain social stigma attached to them. It shouldn't be acceptable to have an abortion because you couldn't be 'bothered' with contraception. But if you are sensible and careful and get 'caught out' you have every right not to ruin your, and a innocent childs life! | |
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| The UK's Stance on Abortion
Posted: 5/26/2006 12:05:09 PM | Hello Jinplus1,
I am in total agreement with your views on abortion. In most cases it is wrong but in certain circumstances it is acceptable. I see many people are completely opposed to the idea and i find this hard to understand.What if someone was the victim of rape and became pregnant?Would you expect them to concieve the child?Or what if the baby had a crippling medical condition that would give it no quality of life? Surely these are valid reasons for abortion to be allowed. | |
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| The UK's Stance on Abortion
Posted: 5/26/2006 1:58:06 PM | | i could never like the idea of terminations,but i think people need to be given a choice....not told what to do and how to do it.but i certainley would bring a law in for those ones who have 2 3 or 4 terminations....that is a different matter. | |
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| The UK's Stance on Abortion
Posted: 5/26/2006 2:03:03 PM | as with many things in life...there is never a yes or no answer...when dealing with people, every case is different and the law should be applied that way. There are too many grey areas...so...should abortion be banned? no it shouldnt....but the right to a termination needs to be treated with a little more respect than it often is...
just my opinion.... | |
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| The UK's Stance on Abortion
Posted: 5/26/2006 2:10:47 PM | I am not in favour of abortion
Everything hapens for a reason I think ..
BUT I don't have to walk every day in someone elses shoes & situation
It must be a very hard situation to be in..
So I would never say never to abortion however it would not be for me personally
BUT... - You never know whats round the corner
Situations and life can change in the blink of an eye
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| The UK's Stance on Abortion
Posted: 5/26/2006 3:31:52 PM | I was always pro-abortion, cos I figured that the right to the life in question lay with the mother.
My opinion on the matter was changed in January 2001, when I learned that I was to become a dad. The mother had no intention of aborting, as we were both delighted, but we were concerned that baby might not go to term, as Suzie was 39, and she had had mis-carriages before. She already has one grown-up son.
Obviously, I was worried about losing the baby, and my thoughts turned to those who might wish to terminate for whatever reasons. I realised that someone has to speak up for the unborn child if the mother wanted to terminate, and I guess it just made me determined that the unborn should be protected from those who wish them not to be born.
Sure, there are sound reasons for termination, but quality of life is not necessarily one of those. There are many childless couples crying out to adopt. Our birth rate is falling, and we apparently have to import our workforce these days, yet here we are, routinely killing babies.
Our baby is now a gorgeous, healthy, edible little boy - I can't imagine anyone wanting to have killed him at any time. | |
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| The UK's Stance on Abortion
Posted: 5/26/2006 5:05:31 PM | I'm with you Jin, choice is the most important thing.
Funnily enough it's not been high on the political agenda in the 10 years I've been politically aware. Sometimes we get someone trying to make a point about it, but normally it gets ignored. It's so far off the political compass it's untrue.
I'm a devout athiest though, to me life begins at the point of self-awareness. There are, of course, those who are devoutly religious, thoseo believe that life begins at conception. To them I say "your religion is your mental illness, don't inflict it on the rest of us". | |
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| The UK's Stance on Abortion
Posted: 5/21/2007 11:18:00 AM | | There is an abotion thread going in one of the other forums, so I thought I would ask my fellow POFs on how they felt on the issue, Now I am def pro abortion, I feel it is every womans right to terminate a pregnacy if she so wishes, but in saying that I don't agree with those women who use a termination as a firm of birth control. Pro life would argue the right for life, what is your stance on this? | |
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| The UK's Stance on Abortion
Posted: 5/21/2007 11:36:18 AM | MSG 14
I feel it is every womans right to terminate a pregnacy if she so wishes
Every?
I don't agree with those women who use a termination as a firm of birth control.
Why is partly why I do not believe it is the woman's right to choose.
Before she ends the life of another human being, she should first demonstrate a damn good reason why that life should be ended almost before it has begun.
Your mother is the closest human being, and if SHE won't stand up for you, then the state should. | |
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Mufski
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Joined: 4/14/2007
Msg: 16 | |
| The UK's Stance on Abortion
Posted: 5/21/2007 11:39:12 AM | Well my first point is that any abortions should be completely self financed by the abortee...
Yup, but isn't the 'abortee' actually the unborn foetus?
Perhaps you mean't to say 'The Mother' in actual fact, and to a major degree we have all known from a tender age that 'what goes up usually comes down' so why shouldn't there be a charge for carelessness!
Hell - perhaps it can be taxed as well! 
Abortion is the oldest debate around. Arguably today there is more cause for it than ever before since more and more birth defects can be determined in the womb or by genetic know how, not to mention today's throw away society which clearly has few scruples about throwing away perfectly healthy foetal life too...
Best cure for abortion I ever heard of, and I did hear this first hand too, was a woman who went in for her third termination, but left things too near the limit. The hospitals attitude was less than amused I suspect, because they induced her instead of aborting surgically - and left her alone in a room to get on with it.
She never went back for another, forced to give birth to a stillborn foetus and actually see it with her own eyes... | |
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| The UK's Stance on Abortion
Posted: 5/21/2007 11:53:35 AM | Yes I also agree its the mothers choice whether she should have a baby or not.. however.. IF i was in a relationship i would discuss it with the father....
I have had an abortion at a VERY young age of my life, and its not a nice thing to go through... plus theres a chance if you have an abortion you may not be able to have kids in the future... And whoever said its a baby and should not KILL it... should find out a little more about it as its isnt a baby at say......... 8 weeks when statistically most woman decide to teminate!! | |
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| The UK's Stance on Abortion
Posted: 5/21/2007 11:55:00 AM | i am in favour of medical abortions, before 12-14 weeks, ideally before 6 weeks. after this the whole are becomes alot more complicated. not just physically but emotionaly.
Terminations can be carried out till birth, and they do take place, a chemical is injected into the foetus and it dies, the mother then goes through a normal delivery.....
i am blessed with a disabled child, she has a rare genetic disability, i wouldnt terminate because i was young and nieve, (also it wasnt diagnosed in the antenatal period) for subsequent pregnancies, i had no invasive genetic testing, i knew what i was letting myself in for. i have also miscarried 6 times, yes thats right, six. i think i have a right to comment, i have never had a termination,i dont think i ever would, but there for the grace of god.......
it is the PARENTS right to choose not just the mother (woman's)
If termanations where to be illegal, we would go back to back street clinics and women bleeding to death. nice.
IT isnt just a woman that needs to take responcability (sp??) its the men too, hell all of you lot go get vasectomy's and we'll only have babies via IVF... make life alot easier....
PF x
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| The UK's Stance on Abortion
Posted: 5/21/2007 12:06:31 PM | It takes two to make a baby but only one to carry it, when it comes to pass that man can carry the foetus to term perhaps there maybe more of a debate until that day there should be the choice to abort or not.
Just because its available doesnt mean everyone does it, isnt it freedom of choice that is being questioned not just abortion? For many years women didnt have the right to vote are we to remove that too so we cant be heard? | |
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Mufski
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Joined: 4/14/2007
Msg: 21 | |
| The UK's Stance on Abortion
Posted: 5/21/2007 12:52:32 PM | The woman is the vessel that contains the unborn child and it is her responsibility to ultimately make sure there is contraception in place. A man, at the very best, can only be a cooperative partner in the process.
Afterall if you were Sherpa Tensing would you hold someone else responsible if you copped frostbite as a result of not dressing properly? I think not, only a bad workman blames his tools or workmates for his own mistakes!
If your male partner hasn't had the snip is it really so hard to take a look, at the critical moment, to make sure there's a condom in place before penetration? Do you not also have access to gel containing a spermicide and in this day and age is it at all difficult to get hold of the morning after pill?
Even assuming you make love unprotected in the heat of the moment you can still be prudent and take medication as soon as possible following this!
How many men have been duped by females who've said they can't get pregnant and have either inadvertantly or deliberately done so?
As decent, or as carefree, as your male partner may be you have to realise that he is not able to 'sense' or 'feel' or influence any post-coital changes which may be telltale signs of a pregnancy when these are not occuring in *HIS* body!
As for making an abortion mandatorily in any way the fathers decision - I'm sorry, it isn't even remotely feasible! What if he's not around? Can't be traced? Doesn't want to know? Is happily married, or in a relationship with someone else?
For that matter, what if he wouldn't agree?
Would paternity need to be proven too?
The clock is ticking away merrily remember...
It's your uterus ladies, and it's your job to protect yourself from unwanted pregnancy and any other health risks because even if you claim the man is complicit in helping you conceive, it is plainly an issue which concerns *YOUR* health and that concerns nobody but you!
That is not to say I agree with absentee fatherhood, I don't. However I've voted with my feet and managed to get by without creating a tribe of sprogs in my wake - but only because I've been careful and have had careful partners.
I do believe firmly that it should *ONLY* be women who're involved in any legislation surrounding abortion.
I also believe that the only free abortions should be those performed upon medical grounds or in cases of incest or rape.
Opinions differ, it's a heated subject - but it should be confined to the actual biological and health aspects of the arguments that exist, and religion - for example -should not be accorded a look in. | |
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| The UK's Stance on Abortion
Posted: 5/21/2007 12:55:23 PM |
to me life begins at the point of self-awareness
I find something quite disturbing about that comment. | |
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| The UK's Stance on Abortion
Posted: 5/21/2007 1:08:07 PM | | A woman's sole right and decision. I support the right to choose. Nobody has the right to force a woman to undergo a pregnancy except herself. | |
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| The UK's Stance on Abortion
Posted: 5/21/2007 1:25:45 PM | Fates Gate: Abortions are generally performed before the 1st trimester. During this period the feotus is a blob of cells busy developing. It isn't a baby, it's not aware, it has no brain! You cannot define this as a baby, yes it may develope into one but at the time of abortion it is just a bunch of cells.
Jin while i agree its upto the individual and their circumstances to have or not have an abortion, i think your wrong about it not being developed into a baby at the time of abortion many are not just a bunch of cells.
Many abortions are done extremley late (upto 26 weeks) one was prematurely born recently at 23 weeks fully developed and with all its functions, in other words a perfect baby.
How many are being aborted like that?...i think it should be limited to 12 weeks maximum | |
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| The UK's Stance on Abortion
Posted: 5/21/2007 1:50:13 PM | IMO the UK has a pretty healthy stance on abortion. Although I believe it should be easier to get one in the early stages (8 weeks, or less). Generally speaking, only medical abortions are performed at the 20 week+ stage. I wouldn't like to see this reduced until such times as reliable tests are in place. If a woman can't be tested for genetic problems until 22 weeks, then she needs a bit of time to get her head round the implications of the choices she has to make. Thereby giving her the chance to think about keeping her baby.
I see abortion as a necessary evil. I don't think that they should be used as a form of contraception, there are plenty of ways to deal with that before 'the wet end' gets involved.
I do believe in a woman's right to choose whether she becomes a mother or not. | |
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