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 AUTHOR
 all about laughs
Joined: 4/18/2005
Msg: 1
Prisoner Sex Change...Page 1 of 2    (1, 2)

BOSTON - A man serving a life sentence for murdering his wife is asking a federal judge to order the state to pay for a sex-change operation, arguing that denying him the surgery amounts to cruel and unusual punishment.

A psychiatrist testified Tuesday that he believes Robert Kosilek — who now goes by Michelle — will commit suicide if state corrections officials refuse to allow the surgery and Kosilek is unable to complete the transformation into a woman.

Kosilek, 57, was convicted of strangling his wife, Cheryl, in 1990.

In 2002, U.S. District Judge Mark Wolf ruled Kosilek was entitled to treatment for gender identity disorder, but he stopped short of ordering the state to pay for a sex-change operation.

Since then, Kosilek has received psychotherapy, female hormone treatments and laser hair removal.

Kosilek sued the Department of Correction for the second time last year, saying psychiatrists — including two of the department's experts — had determined a sex-change operation was medically necessary.

"We ask that gender identity disorder be treated like any other medical condition," said Kosilek's attorney, Frances Cohen.

Attorneys on both sides made opening statements Tuesday in a trial expected to last as long as two weeks. Kosilek opted to have the case heard by Wolf instead of a jury.

Neither side gave an estimate on the costs of the operation. Kosilek's attorney told Wolf she believes the corrections department could argue that the surgery should be covered by the department's provider.

Dr. George Richard Brown, a psychiatrist, said Kosilek's depression and anxiety have improved since the hormone treatment began.

If Kosilek does not have a sex-change operation, Brown said, "I believe that she would kill herself."

The department's attorney, Richard McFarland, said Commissioner Kathleen Dennehy decided to deny surgery because of "significant safety and security concerns."

Corrections officials fear Kosilek could be a target for assault by returning as a woman to the all-male, medium-security prison in Norfolk, McFarland said. If Kosilek is transferred to the women's prison in Framingham, there are concerns about risk to female inmates there.

During the 2002 trial, Kosilek testified to having gender identity disorder since age 3, attempting suicide twice and attempting self-castration.

Two psychiatrists will testify that Kosilek functions "at a very high level" and that a sex-change operation is not medically necessary, McFarland said.


This is ridiculous... it appears that prisoners have too many rights... in my opinion they should have none at all...

Any thoughts on this topic?
 epsilonbj
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 2
Prisoner Sex Change...
Posted: 5/31/2006 7:51:02 PM
inmates are usually very good at milking the system.
 MMMBaby!
Joined: 10/25/2005
Msg: 3
Prisoner Sex Change...
Posted: 5/31/2006 9:16:05 PM
Forget it, no sex change. There really isn't any way you can go back to the very early stage in embryonic devolopment where sex was determined.
You are what you are. An incarcerated male.
 all about laughs
Joined: 4/18/2005
Msg: 4
Prisoner Sex Change...
Posted: 5/31/2006 9:32:27 PM
Honestly, after all this crap he is pulling... I would grant him his sex change, then transfer him to a new jail, at let him lose on the jail population... they could rape his ass until his sentence was completed...

I just cannot beleive that a judge agrees with this idiot... society has some major flaws...
 yna6
Joined: 5/2/2004
Msg: 5
Prisoner Sex Change...
Posted: 6/1/2006 5:07:18 AM
Let's not forget that we are talking about another human being here. Yes...he killed someone. Doesn't make him any less human. As far as this "sex change" operation is concerned. Hmm....I really don't know. Perhaps it would be ok to go ahead with it. I see no reason why not. Many people are "gender confused" (I don't know another way to put it!) and want help sorting it out. Also, parole boards have been customarily easier on female offenders than male ones. Also, a complete identity change like this would help "her" to fit into society when she is released.

Sure, society has some major flaws, but treating prisoners like they are never going to come out of prison is not one of them. I am not a bleeding heart liberal. I'm wondering why this guy wasn't given a death sentance as it is, and mnot one that is put off indefinitly until it has cost the taxpayer more to kill him than it would have to keep him locked up for his life! But, we have decided that killing a killer is not our place, so we have to do what we can to rehabilitate them and hopefully make the productive members of society. If a sex change is what it takes, do it!

maybe he got the whole idea from being someone's "wife" in prison as it is, and is enjoying the role. Maybe it is actually a deep seated guilt and wishes to put himself into his own wifes position, and this is all an elaborate way to commit suicide.

Who knows?
 lvly
Joined: 5/27/2006
Msg: 6
Prisoner Sex Change...
Posted: 6/1/2006 2:34:46 PM
Wow...That is very interesting.....

The prisoners will alwys have rights and will be protected more then the normal good citizen.

It seems that the harder the crime the more in the end you get as far as getting your financial things, they need the protection froom society, give them concideration for their life yet they have not the same for another human being. WHAT ISTHIS WORLD COMMIG TO?
 delytful
Joined: 11/8/2005
Msg: 7
Prisoner Sex Change...
Posted: 6/1/2006 4:11:03 PM
RFLMAO just as stupid as the rest of the "rights" they are ranting and raving about wanting. Rights my foot, special privileges is more like it. The fact that he is incarcerated just makes it that much more ludicrous.
 starfish07
Joined: 4/13/2006
Msg: 8
view profile
History
Prisoner Sex Change...
Posted: 6/1/2006 4:59:35 PM
How in the hell does he know anything or remember for that matter at the age of three? I really get upset knowing how my tax dollars are being spent, especially something as stupid as this. U.S. prisoners do have way too many priviledges!! I have heard and read some pretty stupid things, this is more stupid! This is one of those things that has no words to describe it!!!!
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 9
view profile
History
Prisoner Sex Change...
Posted: 6/2/2006 6:55:57 AM
I'm just putting this up so you guys can make fun of Canadians. Prisoners in our country already have that right and a few have gone through some parts of sex reassignment while in prison. It's a long process and I don't think anyone has been in prison long enough to go from beginning to end, but yup, they get that right here. And now you can make fun of me, because I don't really have a problem with it.
 qbnpete
Joined: 12/15/2005
Msg: 10
Prisoner Sex Change...
Posted: 6/2/2006 10:53:17 AM
give him a rope and let him save us the money of incarceration and the surgery. i'm sure there are plenty of prisoners that would do the surgery for a pack of smokes.
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 11
Prisoner Sex Change...
Posted: 6/2/2006 12:25:33 PM
I fully support this prisoner's right to commit suicide.
 kamikazekate
Joined: 4/15/2006
Msg: 12
Prisoner Sex Change...
Posted: 6/2/2006 1:33:06 PM
PUHLEEEZE!!!!! I agree ^^^^^ "Michelle" has every right to commit suicide. wonder if he/she would like an assist? I wonder if he/she stabbed his/her wife, 'cause if he/she is so handy with a knife, maybe he/she should just start whittling away at his privates him/herself! I'll personaly send the knife in the overnight mail! A do it yourself sex change!

I do not believe that people are "gender confused" just plain confused is more like it, regardless of how fabulous the film "Transamerica" was or wasn't.
 MMMBaby!
Joined: 10/25/2005
Msg: 13
Prisoner Sex Change...
Posted: 6/2/2006 9:03:01 PM
I don't think prisoners should be able to vote, either!
 kamikazekate
Joined: 4/15/2006
Msg: 14
Prisoner Sex Change...
Posted: 6/3/2006 1:43:51 PM
MMMBaby...all felons cannot vote, even once they are out of prison! In some states, I think they can get the right back once probation is done with. I do not have all the details.

I also think that they do not deserve getting a college education on the taxpayers' tab, or great gyms and premium cable TV.

I think prisoners should earn their keep by "working out" on a road gang, or otherwise cleaning highways and doing something to contribute. Many states do have this program.

I will never forget, as a young woman, seeing a chain gang for the first time in my life just outside of New Orleans! And I mean CHAIN gang, like in the movies.
 MMMBaby!
Joined: 10/25/2005
Msg: 15
Prisoner Sex Change...
Posted: 6/3/2006 6:48:56 PM

I think prisoners should earn their keep by "working out" on a road gang, or otherwise cleaning highways and doing something to contribute.


You've got that right!!
 ~Songbird~
Joined: 4/12/2006
Msg: 16
Prisoner Sex Change...
Posted: 6/4/2006 10:46:09 AM
He is a (sick) human being, and has rights...but he threw those out the window when he took the life of another human being.

Whether it's a guilt thing, or he wants to take being someones b|tch to the next level, it's ridiculous of him to think he can get what he wants when he's serving his "Time-Out" for murder. He is in there to be punished, not to lose his appendages and get tax payers to pay for it. If anything, their money should be buying him the noose HE can hang HIMself with.
You know $h|t is hitting the fan in your country WHEN...people feel a murderer has rights like these.
 indicalover
Joined: 3/25/2005
Msg: 17
Prisoner Sex Change...
Posted: 6/4/2006 2:45:37 PM
In Maine, convicted felons have the right to vote. That means that the person that crashed their car while drunk and killed the 80 year old lady and went to prison, narrowly escaping the death penalty because he had a good lawyer, will help pick the elected officials. I don't know, but I think it's that way in Mass. too, because Teddy Kennedy keeps getting re elected.

I think it's GREAT to have the taxpayers pay for the operation. (not) I think he has every right to demand such things after murdering his wife. (not)I think it's good he didn't get the death penalty. (not) And I think that people that don't understand "gender confusion" are just bigots. (not)

The guy needs to look down his pants. He has a penis. That means he's a guy. Where's the confusion? Grass is green. Sky is blue. Penis is male. Vagina is female. Come on!

I'm not paying for the fact that he's retarded and can't figure that out. I will pay for his rope to hang himslef, though. I agree- he has that right. That won't cost me near as much to pay for the disposal of his body. Unless the murdered woman's family was willing to pay for a funeral...
 DesertMagick
Joined: 1/8/2005
Msg: 18
Prisoner Sex Change...
Posted: 6/4/2006 3:02:39 PM
GIVE ME A BREAK! I said it before & I'll say it again. I was born in the WRONG century. A tall tree & a short rope, ive got BOTH in my yard. What say we spend some of the tax dollars we would save on this "loser" on education, alternative fuels, medical care for our LAW ABIDING, LEGAL, HARDWORKING CITZENS. MAGICK FOR PRESIDENT 2008
 buttonsone1
Joined: 2/17/2006
Msg: 19
view profile
History
Prisoner Sex Change...
Posted: 6/4/2006 7:13:52 PM
It would sure cost the government less if "michelle" killed itself. c'mon "it" took the life of it's wife, one that he probably wasn't very nice to during their marriage I would suspect.

Maybe it just wants a sex change so the wife's family doesn't recognize it when it gets out of jail. If I were the judge in that case I would let "michelle" prove that it would kill itself!!!
 longte
Joined: 10/18/2004
Msg: 20
Prisoner Sex Change...
Posted: 6/4/2006 8:43:17 PM
Rights or wrongs of this case not withstanding, what prison would they be sent to after a sex change??

Are they then considered to be legally male or female??

If female, it is very easy to see why they would prefer to try to get an operation done, as they would be moved to a womens prison
..
.
 sshoe1971
Joined: 6/1/2006
Msg: 21
Prisoner Sex Change...
Posted: 6/4/2006 9:00:00 PM
I worked in a privately run medium-security male prison for 4yrs,when I left I was an asst. shift supervisor.It would absolutely floor you as to the "rights" these individuals have.Being that it was a private-owned facility(the largest in the state,not sc)they were all about the money and what kind of profit they could turn at any expense.

With this said there take on the subject was as follows: You will not receive a gender reassignment at the expense of the public,the tax-payers,or any other monetary contributing factor to your incarceration.This includes but is not limited to:breast implants,removal of genitalia or hormone therapy.

If an inmate came into the system already on hormone therapy then it was expected as a "right" to continue to provide the appropriate medication,also if that inmate already had breast implants they were given the appropriate undergarments ie:regular bra,sport bra.
 indicalover
Joined: 3/25/2005
Msg: 22
Prisoner Sex Change...
Posted: 6/5/2006 3:19:57 PM

If female, it is very easy to see why they would prefer to try to get an operation done, as they would be moved to a womens prison


My boyfreind said the same thing. There aren't any big burly bubba's in womens prison wanting to rape him for being a friggin wierdo. Women's prison is "easier".

I just had to comment on the terms "Gender reassignment."



I mean really, now. Can't we say sex change? Is it not politcally correct?
 jr52052
Joined: 5/11/2006
Msg: 23
view profile
History
Prisoner Sex Change...
Posted: 6/5/2006 3:54:09 PM
So right - if he wanted a sex change he should have thought of that before he killed someone. He should have every right to commit suicide - I also agree with that.
 Babylonia
Joined: 1/27/2005
Msg: 24
Prisoner Sex Change...
Posted: 6/7/2006 4:39:54 PM

Let's not forget that we are talking about another human being here. Yes...he killed someone. Doesn't make him any less human. As far as this "sex change" operation is concerned. Hmm....I really don't know. Perhaps it would be ok to go ahead with it. I see no reason why not. Many people are "gender confused" (I don't know another way to put it!) and want help sorting it out.


Let's not forget that he's incarcerated for life because he murdered another human being. It does not make him any less human, and it certainly doesn't make him any more entitled to an elective surgery to change his gender, either. While this murderer is getting a sex change on government funds, those funds that were misappropriated to appease his "identity disorder" are being refused to law abiding citizens, children even, who are in need of necessary surgeries but don't have the luxury of affording it, nor are qualified as property of the state to have it pay for the procedure for them. Putting it into perspective like this gives me plenty of reasons why not, truthfully.

True, many people are gender confused. However, that doesn't give them the right to demand taxpayers foot the bill for a sex change. Getting help in sorting this confusion out is quite different from getting money to pay for a surgery. He has a deep psychological need and desire to be a woman. I have a deep psychological need to be rich. Maybe I ought to commit a crime and then sue the government because my parents failed to make me as my narcissism tells me I was born to be.

^^I'll admit that last part was for emphasis and overdramatic, but let's not forget here that we all wish in some way or another we could tweak what the good Creator intended we be. This murderer is IMO the last person entitled to taxpayer money for an elective such as this. If he's entitled, then so too are morbidly obese people entitled to government-funded gastric by-pass if they can prove that their condition is causing them psychological trauma to the point of suicidal thoughts.
 yna6
Joined: 5/2/2004
Msg: 25
Prisoner Sex Change...
Posted: 6/9/2006 6:26:19 PM
Well...gotta agreew ith that one. Prisoners are treated far better than the poor in this country. Some guys prefer jail than actually being pushed back out onto the streets because they don't have the same quality of life. Pretty bad. Perhaps a minimum standard of life quality should be in order...including food, cable TV. access to education, free rooms, etc. Perhaps this would make jail seem like less of an option.

It may not be wonderland in jail...but beats a lot of places I've had to live.
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