| the civil war
Posted: 2/24/2005 4:24:26 PM | How can you expect a friendly and reasonable discussion when you drop this bomb right at the start?
am looking for the real causes not slavery people in the north did not care about slaves the only wanted to take away a states individual rights in exchange for a federal centralized government run by themselves
Pretty much shows you're not really interested in anyone else's opinion. Don't you think Varus?.. | |
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Posted: 2/24/2005 4:58:37 PM | | I'm under the impression that industrialism had a large part to play. | |
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| the civil war
Posted: 2/24/2005 5:00:13 PM | | a huge part.......in making that fork........ | |
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Posted: 2/24/2005 5:14:50 PM | | thanks for inout HR.......what happened to baby reading the playboy pic?.......anyways, i have always been interested in the civil war.......i need to do more research......... | |
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Posted: 2/24/2005 5:19:05 PM | | Did the North really want the South to 'change' or was the South being resistant to progress? | |
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Posted: 2/24/2005 8:08:41 PM | There were slaves in the south. The whole world was making slavery illegal. There was a powerful anti-slavery movement in the north which was becoming more powerful. For this reason, the south decided they didn't want to be part of the union anymore. They seceded from the union as a result, as they had never entered into any agreement NOT to do this and they appeared to have had a perfect right. They asked the north to remove their soldiers. The north did not do this because they wanted to make the south stay in the union, probably because cotton was our biggest international export. The south attacked Ft. Sumter to get the union out and the first battle took place.
The slaves weren't emancipated until 1863, probably because the north realized they needed a valuable ally in the war. | |
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Posted: 2/24/2005 8:10:00 PM | | I'm so bummed I missed this! That's ok I have 2 cents to throw in the penny bowl. I'm a yankee but I takes sides with the south on the Civil War, but you can't compare our institution of slavery to others before us. The US was the first to have racist slavery, meaning we would only enslave one race. But I can't emphasize enough how much more superior the confederate army was to the north. | |
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Posted: 2/24/2005 8:13:57 PM | | Oh and to the person who was saying that he wasn't interested in anyone else's opinion because he didn't want to hear that slavery was a cause of the war, he's obvioulsy just looking for an educated conversation. Anyone who has studied the Civil War outside of High School knows that slavery was not a valid reason. After the war was started the abolitionists tried to make it a war about slavery to help their cause. | |
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Posted: 2/24/2005 8:49:00 PM | | Are you trying to tell me there were Irish and Spanish slaves in this countries? Cause I'd really like to know your source for that. | |
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Posted: 2/24/2005 8:58:59 PM | | Yea please do. I'm pretty skeptical. Actually I don't have trouble believing that in the VERY begining there may have been some Irish and Spanish, but they quickly phased out. Haha it's funny, we're actually both on the same side about the war... | |
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Posted: 2/24/2005 9:13:48 PM | | I'd say for 99.9% of the time we had slaves they were all black. Slave owners would hire Irish immigrants to do extremely dangerous jobs so they wouldn't put their property at risk. That may be what your talking about, but that was paid work (extremely minimal pay but still pay). | |
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Posted: 2/24/2005 9:14:34 PM | Msugirl,
Slaves in the U.S. were not always from Africa. In fact, for most of history slavery was not race based. If you were on a ship or got defeated in battle, you could become a slave, regardless of race. In the colonies native americans, europeans, and africans were used as slaves. But over time native americans fell to european disease. Because africans were used to living in savanahs in central aftrica, they were best suited for american slavery. Also, african slaves were very distingishable from their european masters. European slaves could escape and blend into the free population. This was much more difficult for african slaves. The more african slaves were used in American, the more racism developed as a way to control the slave population. America and the European colonies are the birth of modern racism. In the middle part of the 1800s, Darwinism was misused to suggest that whites were better suited for intellectual activity than blacks. This further fueled racism in our country.
But to answer your question, yes Irish and Spanish slaves did exist -- either as slaves or indentured servants. | |
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Posted: 2/24/2005 9:25:32 PM | | I'm going to have to research it on my own to actually believe this, although I'm sure you both are credible I'm just having trouble believing it. I'm very suprised with all the "pro-confederate" stuff I've read none of them said anything about this. I would actually like to find this to be true though. | |
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Posted: 2/24/2005 9:37:00 PM | | Beware of rebel propaganda, or yankee propaganda? Sorry it was a little confusing. I know you said rebel but it sounded like you were talking about the northern viewpoint. | |
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Posted: 2/24/2005 9:37:53 PM | Here is an online reference. White slaves in the new world were called indentured servants. But this gives a little support to my earlier post.
http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/black_voices/voices_display.cfm?id=13 | |
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Posted: 2/24/2005 9:45:02 PM | kadmus- thanks for the link!
liveordiefordixie- I was going to try to look up some slave records, but I'll watch out for that propanga. I know there is a lot on both sides and people get sucked in too easily. | |
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Posted: 2/24/2005 11:03:14 PM |
oh yea and for the record the slave trade was funded by jews and this is provable
Prove it. | |
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Posted: 2/24/2005 11:08:23 PM | | Oh, for crying out loud. The same person comes back here every few days after getting banned, and starts assailing the Jews. Real big surprise. | |
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Posted: 2/24/2005 11:13:05 PM | You're right. I can see this turning into a battle of web references eventually culminating in name calling and wasting my time.
I withdraw my request for proof. | |
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Posted: 2/25/2005 6:21:56 AM | liveordiefordixie isn't Varus.... its that troll freedomfighter/irishfreedom.
In case anyone was wondering. | |
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Posted: 2/25/2005 6:25:57 AM | Diaperboy - just had to say The Patriot is not a good film to watch if you want factual information.
Much as I adore Mel Gibson and enjoy his films, neither The Patriot nor Braveheart, have been historically accurate! | |
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Posted: 2/25/2005 7:50:36 AM |
There were slaves in the south. The whole world was making slavery illegal. There was a powerful anti-slavery movement in the north which was becoming more powerful. For this reason, the south decided they didn't want to be part of the union anymore.
While nobody can deny slavery played some role, it was not the main reason. The 13 southern states were paying something like 80% of the country's taxes. Jefferson Davis was willing to emancipate the slaves in order to secede peacefully. | |
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Posted: 2/25/2005 8:05:39 AM | | You know, I've been up for 24 hours and I better fact check this post before I posted it... sorry | |
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Posted: 2/25/2005 9:02:06 AM | I went and looked at the link, and it never said they were slaves.
"Indentured servants agreed to work for a four or five year term of service in return for their transportation to the New World as well as food, clothing, and shelter. In certain respects, the status of white servants differed little from that of slavery."
-That doesn't prove to me that whites were actually slaves in this country.
I don't doubt that they used Indian labor, but it says around 1680 that was being phased out to turn to black slavery.
"But it also seems clear that racism was as much a consequence of RACIAL SLAVERY as it was a cause."
-Back to my point, America was the first racist instution of slavery. | |
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