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| What Part of the Constitution forbids adults to make legal contracts with each other?
Posted: 7/6/2006 11:04:40 AM | (07-06) 07:19 PDT Albany, N.Y. (AP) --
New York's highest court ruled Thursday that gay marriage is not allowed under state law, rejecting arguments by same-sex couples who said the law violates their constitutional rights.
The Court of Appeals, in a 4-2 decision, said New York's marriage law is constitutional and clearly limits marriage to between a man and a woman.
Any change in the law would have to come from the state Legislature, Judge Robert Smith said.
"We do not predict what people will think generations from now, but we believe the present generation should have a chance to decide the issue through its elected representatives," Smith wrote.
Gov. George Pataki's health department and state Attorney General Eliot Spitzer's office had argued New York law prohibits issuing licenses to same-sex couples. The state had prevailed in lower appeals courts.
"It's a sad day for New York families," said plaintiff Kathy Burke of Schenectady, who is raising an 11-year-old son with her partner, Tonja Alvis. "My family deserves the same protections as my next door neighbors."
The judges declined to follow the lead of high court judges in neighboring Massachusetts, who ruled that same-sex couples in that state have the same right to wed as straight couples.
The four cases decided Thursday were filed two years ago when the Massachusetts decision helped usher in a series of gay marriage controversies from Boston to San Francisco.
With little hope of getting a gay marriage bill signed into law in Albany, advocates from the ACLU, Lambda Legal and other advocacy groups marshaled forces for a court fight. Forty-four couples acted as plaintiffs in the suits, including the brother of comedian Rosie O'Donnell and his longtime partner.
Plaintiff Regina Cicchetti said she was "devastated" by the ruling. But the Port Jervis resident said she and her partner of 36 years, Susan Zimmer, would fight on, probably by lobbying the Legislature for a change in the law.
"We haven't given up," she said. "We're in this for the long haul. If we can't get it done for us, we'll get it done for the people behind us."
In a dissent, Chief Judge Judith Kaye said the court failed to uphold its responsibility to correct inequalities when it decided to simply leave the issue to lawmakers.
Kaye noted that a number of bills allowing same-sex marriage have been introduced in the Legislature over the past several years, but none has ever made it out of committee.
"It is uniquely the function of the Judicial Branch to safeguard individual liberties guaranteed by the New York State Constitution, and to order redress for their violation," she wrote. "The court's duty to protect constitutional rights is an imperative of the separation of powers, not its enemy. I am confident that future generations will look back on today's decision as an unfortunate misstep."
Judge Albert Rosenblatt, whose daughter has advocated for same-sex couples in California, did not take part in the decision.
Since the Massachusetts ruling, about a dozen states have approved constitutional bans on same-sex marriage, and 19 now outlaw it. There is now a push in Massachusetts for a state constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage.
A federal lawsuit filed over California's refusal to grant a marriage license to a gay couple reached the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in May. The court, however, sidestepped the question of whether it was unconstitutional to deny gays and lesbians the right to marry, leaving the issue to state courts to decide. | |
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xamo
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Joined: 3/24/2006
Msg: 2 | |
| What Part of the Constitution forbids adults to make legal contracts with each other?
Posted: 7/6/2006 11:33:32 AM | The part that says that federal laws are supersceded by each state's individual laws in certain matters, i.e lisencing, and the part that says all contracts to be legal must comply with local state laws. So if you cal get a lisence to shoot deer in Wasghington, why can't I get one in NYC ? Because they don't offer one. The rreason that two men, women, children, multiple partners etc.) can't get a marriage lisence is because federal laws recognize marriage as a civil union between man and woman.
In fact there is nothing preventing same sex couples from making binding contracts regarding their estate, children and agency in the event of injury etc. Same sex couples can be listed as a spouse regarding insurace claims, next of kin in medical emergencies etc.)
I don't understand the question, marriage is not a contract, its a commitment... why can't gay people get married is another question, another debate, but to put those constitutional ideals in opposition to due process and the democratic wishes of the people is kind of manipulative. My opinion. in Canada I regret there not being a free vote in the house of commons on the matter, whatever the answer was, I don't really care, but I do think that democracy, not legal games (i.e courts instead of legislature changing laws) are the only valid, non partisan way in making social change.
Just a point for discussion for Americans (or anyone I suppose...), why no plural marriage ?
(not being facicious really asking) | |
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| What Part of the Constitution forbids adults to make legal contracts with each other?
Posted: 7/6/2006 11:40:24 AM |
I don't understand the question, marriage is not a contract, its a commitment...
OH, but you DO understand the question. Contract and commitment (legally binding) are the same thing.
Just a point for discussion for Americans (or anyone I suppose...), why no plural marriage ?
(not being facicious really asking)
This is an intelligent question... not that I'm for it.
I just don't see that there's a constitutional reason to keep people from doing it. It's based on customs from what I can see, not legal precedent or reasons. | |
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lira
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Joined: 6/8/2006
Msg: 4 | |
| What Part of the Constitution forbids adults to make legal contracts with each other?
Posted: 7/6/2006 4:15:31 PM | Marriage is a saciment of the church. Kind of like a contract with God.Your promise is made to God with the marriage vows. God created a women because a man could not handle the job.Joking, just wanted to add some humer.Seriously,A women was made for a man, by God.I am not against "Gays". I get along better with a gay men than I do a streight men.A husband and wife make a father and mother. Father means provider and mother means protector.If you have 2 fathers:
1.A baby will never be made to begin with
2. There will be 2 providers, no protectors
Two mothers:
1. as abouve, no baby made
2.There will be 2 protectors, no providers
I know things have changed since Adam and Eve.Men and women both work, I am mother and father to my kids when they are with me and their father is mother and father when they are with him. I am going on what, is in my opinion,God meant for us. God is the higher power,not the state legislatures. This is my opinion only, being I know some people have different religious beliefs.So my answer is "no" to same sex marriages. | |
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| What Part of the Constitution forbids adults to make legal contracts with each other?
Posted: 7/6/2006 5:15:49 PM | | But the thing is, there are churches that accept same sex marriages. So the God they worship has no probem with it. And there are lots of single parents, that's about as much same sex parenting as you can get. My take is that it doesn't affect me, those it does affect want it, so I don't see what the big deal is. | |
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| What Part of the Constitution forbids adults to make legal contracts with each other?
Posted: 7/6/2006 5:34:54 PM | I humbly correct you, Sir; it is NOT a "problem" it is an "ALLOWANCE" for a Church to accept gay relationships; it is CLEARLY NOT God's wish for man to unite with the same sex. To DIRECTLY address your lame point; YES; GOD DOES HAVE A "PROBLEM" WITH HOMOSEXUALITY. He always has. To deny that fact is in credibly naive. Scripture (the LAWS of GOD to those that choose to ignore) is plentiful and quite distinct as to what pisses Him off; and Homosexuality is RIGHT UP THERE on the top of His list.
How YOU "feel" about it really is NOT relevant; unless you can tell me just exactly where YOU were when He set the foundations of the Universe....?
No answer to that one? I wouldn't think so. God does NOT depend on YOUR opinion; we depend (well, clearly, "you" don't, but MOST of us do) depend upon Him.
In fact; in nature; the purpose of ALL creation is to propagate; reproduce their species; Homosexuality is the END of that genetic line. it is ananomaly that ends a special strain of code.
Whether you like that or not; it is immutable; it is fact. Their are a FEW Churches that allow homosexsuality as an accepted way of life (for the most part; and with few denominations excepted) see it as a way of "loving the sinner while hating the sin".
Other denominations (such as "Episcopals") actually can find reason outside of Scriptures to ordain homosexuality within their leadership in the Clergy.
The irony is that IF you accept Scripture as the flawless and inspired Word of God; then you must accept ALL of it; and you may NOT selectively exclude those parts that condemn those actions and activities that (some of us) prefer to call "Lifestyle". | |
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lira
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Joined: 6/8/2006
Msg: 7 | |
| What Part of the Constitution forbids adults to make legal contracts with each other?
Posted: 7/6/2006 5:37:04 PM | | If their God dont have a problem with it, Its up to them I guess.As you said about single parents and I did in my last post,I am a single parent. But it took me and my husband to make the children. As far as the churches or God that allows same sex marriage, how does this God expect them to reproduce, by cheating on their spouse.I know they can adapt, but I was thinking more on a nature point of view.It dont effect me, so if the law is passed to allow it, I wont lose any sleep, but I still think it would be wrong.We all need to do what we feel is right.My God knows I have done/ and still doing/and will do my own share of sinning, and as it says in my Bible"Those without sin may cast the first stone" so even though I have my own oppinion, I, nor anyone else, should judge these people. | |
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ozma
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Joined: 6/23/2006
Msg: 9 | |
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LL3
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Joined: 9/10/2005
Msg: 10 | |
| What Part of the Constitution forbids adults to make legal contracts with each other?
Posted: 7/6/2006 5:55:11 PM | Do the gays really want to get legally married and accept that there is a 50% failure rate? C'mon, you get all you want now.....and here in Canada they get to fail as much as the rest of us, legally binding even. Does it really matter that much that you get to fail legally? One in two of you will....or one in 3 after some certain statistical number that's being shot around lately...
Remember way back when the countries were founded? Ok, a long time ago, and I'm not to be taken verbatim here, but we are based on a Catholic, or Christ fearing type of society. Most of our teachings have been the same way. We still idealize and respect the idea of man and woman "unions". Nothing else..
If you have your cake, why waste our time and yours and try to eat it as well??? | |
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lira
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Joined: 6/8/2006
Msg: 11 | |
| What Part of the Constitution forbids adults to make legal contracts with each other?
Posted: 7/6/2006 5:57:46 PM | | Hey,somelips,I know what you mean, I was raised in the episcopal church. Our last minister was "flamming".I found it hard for me to listen to him complain about what we were doing that God hated and at the same time, he was checking out the men in the congragation.Although I know the minister is not perfect, but its like he is being a hiporcrit (not sure of spelling) about it, He may confess to cussing,doubting God ect but he never announced in church that he was gay. | |
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lira
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Joined: 6/8/2006
Msg: 13 | |
| What Part of the Constitution forbids adults to make legal contracts with each other?
Posted: 7/6/2006 6:06:23 PM | | Ozma, I understand what you are saying about not all marriage being a contract with God. I was speaking more of what God intended marriage to be. He blessed the union between Adam and Eve as he intended to bless all marriages. God does not want us to be athiest so he has not blessed their marriage.God says a marriage should be blessed by him. | |
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| What Part of the Constitution forbids adults to make legal contracts with each other?
Posted: 7/6/2006 6:18:11 PM | but lira: the state is not God. the bill of rights says:
Article the third [Amendment I]
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. | |
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lira
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Joined: 6/8/2006
Msg: 15 | |
| What Part of the Constitution forbids adults to make legal contracts with each other?
Posted: 7/6/2006 6:37:29 PM | anticon,The answer to the subject to what in the constitution gives the right.here it is.
secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and to our posterity.
posterity-our decendents. Gay marriages cant have decendents, as God intended us to have.
To the answer to your question"Under what authority" Its under Gods authority/Gods law. Gods law is above all laws.
Men must be governed by God or they will be ruled by tyrants.( dont know the verse) | |
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lira
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Joined: 6/8/2006
Msg: 16 | |
| What Part of the Constitution forbids adults to make legal contracts with each other?
Posted: 7/6/2006 6:38:35 PM | anticon,The answer to the subject to what in the constitution gives the right.here it is.
secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and to our posterity.
posterity-our decendents. Gay marriages cant have decendents, as God intended us to have.
To the answer to your question"Under what authority" Its under Gods authority/Gods law. Gods law is above all laws.
Men must be governed by God or they will be ruled by tyrants.( dont know the verse) | |
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lira
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Joined: 6/8/2006
Msg: 17 | |
| What Part of the Constitution forbids adults to make legal contracts with each other?
Posted: 7/6/2006 6:49:20 PM | | I know you are tired of hearing about God, but congress should also be governed by God, maybe congress is the tyrants God speaks of.I am not trying to preech religion, but its the only answer I have to the topic.The state( the entire earth) belongs to God, he lets us live here to do his will.One of the wills of God is to "multiply". Same sex marriage cant multiply. | |
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| What Part of the Constitution forbids adults to make legal contracts with each other?
Posted: 7/6/2006 7:08:05 PM | Allow me a moment of hypocricy. The thread is an interesting one, it's unfortunate that it's quickly becoming redundant.
congress should also be governed by God
Who's god, yours, mine, or the guy four houses down from me?
Same sex marriage cant multiply.
Nor can the elderly, shall we bar them from marriage? Or how about those unable, or unwilling to have children? | |
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| What Part of the Constitution forbids adults to make legal contracts with each other?
Posted: 7/6/2006 7:39:27 PM |
The irony is that IF you accept Scripture as the flawless and inspired Word of God; then you must accept ALL of it; and you may NOT selectively exclude those parts that condemn those actions and activities that (some of us) prefer to call "Lifestyle".
Does that mean we are forbidden to mix cotton with wool, or eat hooved animals and shellfish? Like you said, nullifying those laws in Leviticus means that we aren't accepting ALL of the scripture as the flawless and inspired word of God.
As far as the churches or God that allows same sex marriage, how does this God expect them to reproduce, by cheating on their spouse.I know they can adapt, but I was thinking more on a nature point of view.
Yet, nature has dictated that many men and women are infertile. Because their union means the end of a specific genetic code, are they forbidden by God to reproduce?
I mean, hey, it's perfectly within our right to believe in God and His word, but what do those who believe in another religion do? Must they follow our Christian beliefs as well, or are we going to argue whose religion is best and whose God is real? That's like arguing whose got the best imaginary friend. Enforcing religious beliefs into Law in a part of the world which claims freedom from religious persecution is the very antithesis of why we came here to begin with.
How can you reconcile forcing other's to abide by one religion? How is that mentality different from the radical Imams trying to force Islamic Law? | |
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| What Part of the Constitution forbids adults to make legal contracts with each other?
Posted: 7/6/2006 7:52:44 PM | yeah... by levitical law, eating a cheeseburger is an abomination to God:
Exodus Chapter 34...
26 The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother’s milk.
and FURTHERMORE!!!
18 The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep. Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, as I commanded thee, in the time of the month Abib: for in the month Abib thou camest out from Egypt.
19 All that openeth the matrix is mine; and every firstling among thy cattle, whether ox or sheep, that is male.
20 But the firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb: and if thou redeem him not, then shalt thou break his neck. All the firstborn of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before me empty.
21 Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest: in earing time and in harvest thou shalt rest.
22 And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year’s end.
23 Thrice in the year shall all your men children appear before the Lord GOD, the God of Israel.
24 For I will cast out the nations before thee, and enlarge thy borders: neither shall any man desire thy land, when thou shalt go up to appear before the LORD thy God thrice in the year.
25 Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven; neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left unto the morning.
*Uh buoy...* | |
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| What Part of the Constitution forbids adults to make legal contracts with each other?
Posted: 7/6/2006 7:57:18 PM | | In this country, church and state are kept separate. Most courthouses and government buildings are not allowed to have the ten commandments displayed because it's mixing church with state, yet these same courthouses will rule against gay marriage based on the fact that church dictates marriage is between a man and a woman? It sounds to me like they are talking out of both sides of their mouths. You may not agree with gays and their choices, but who are we, or the government to say that they can't make their union legal? Why can't they have the same civil protections as heterosexuals do? I say, if they want to get married, let them. It's not personally hurting me, or you, or anyone else... | |
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vivid
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Joined: 6/30/2006
Msg: 23 | |
| What Part of the Constitution forbids adults to make legal contracts with each other?
Posted: 7/7/2006 12:33:20 AM | The church shouldn't have anything to do with it.....what this thread is discussing
is civil marriages. Even marriages through the church has to be recognized by
the gov't - the church has to wait for gov't blessing via a marriage license before
the union is recognized.
What the Americans are missing is a Peoples Bill of Rights that we have in Canada; check it
out. This is what makes our rights unique in the free world; and why gays find it easier
to argue before the courts - imo.
http://lois.justice.gc.ca/en/C-12.3/text.html | |
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lira
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Joined: 6/8/2006
Msg: 24 | |
| What Part of the Constitution forbids adults to make legal contracts with each other?
Posted: 7/7/2006 3:17:19 AM | Ok--If you exclude God, there is no reason why same sex marriages should be allowed.But on one note, my minister was gay, some of my friends are gay, and we are all Christians so we have the same God.
If God and the churce are kept seperate, why did people have to swear on the bible up until a few years ago.
As far as old that can no longer reproduce,people getting marriad,God still gave Adam a women because he was alone.Adam was not given a man.Also wasnt it, Rachel(I think) that was blessed with a baby after her child bearing years.
No, same sex marriages will not hurt me, so I dont care.
By the way, I have no idea haw msg 15 was posted twice. | |
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| What Part of the Constitution forbids adults to make legal contracts with each other?
Posted: 7/7/2006 4:49:47 AM | If God has a problem with gay people, then I choose to let him deal with it. He created the entire universe, I think he can handle it pretty easily in the manner he decides, without any additional help from me. I've known enough gay people to know that they discovered that they were "different" at very young ages - long before any sexual side was present.
For whatever reason, being gay isn't a choice. As such, it should not be any reason to be treated differently from any other person, with exactly the same rights as all other citizens.
It wasn't very long ago where blacks where not seen as been children of God, because had they been they would have never been bought and sold like cattle - and horribly mistreated.
Now, that seems foreign to us. God's message hasn't changed, our interpretation of it has.
His Son spoke of the importance of love, and that's His father's message he was delivering. I figure it must have been pretty important, to have delivered it personally to us in such a manner.
If any two people love and care about one another, then we should celebrate that miracle because it's a rather rare trait, and in our world (as we can see here regularly addressed) we are all very much in need of that at the moment.
I see religion as the way to run YOUR life, and not the lives of other people. That's one of the biggest problems in the world today, and it's alway been the case. Your freedom to believe in what you do is limited by my freedom to not be exposed to anything imposed by you upon me. I wouldn't try and force my religious beliefs on a single person. | |
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