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| Single moms...
Posted: 7/13/2006 10:44:08 AM | A few years ago, I dated someone and about a year after we stopped seeing each other she had a baby. Found out that she just went out and got herself pregnant because she wanted to have a baby, with or without a father in the kid's life.
I think that is selfish. I believe a kid needs both parents, whether or not these parents end up staying together, seperate, divorce, whatever. Kid still needs both. Any thoughts? | |
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| Single moms...
Posted: 7/13/2006 11:19:24 AM | Why exactly do you "believe a kid needs both parents"?
Yes she may have been selfish in thinking only of herself not her unborn child.. but no one has any say in it but her.
Besides... of the individual's who do procreate and then they end up separating, divorcing, etc... in most cases... the other parent is missing by their choice. Who's to blame when the child and the parent who cares are still there and the other parent is no where to be found?
What about children who lose a parent at a young age? Considering more and more people choose to have children later in life... do those children still need both parents due to the untimely death of one?
Don't be so fague or generalize based one experience. | |
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| Single moms...
Posted: 7/13/2006 11:33:35 AM | It's a balance. Obviously, men and women are vastly diferent, like Ying and Yang. Man are straight and simple, women are more complicated, both emotionally as well as in communication.. But they both provide that balance for the kid, they both 'teach' their side.
Without a rolemodel from both sides, kids CAN become warped in some way..either become mommy's boys or huge a-holes... of course, these are extremes.
If people seperate, the grown up thing to do is to at least allow the other parent to BE the parent of the kids. Still be there,as much as possible. It is a responsibility and walking away from it is selfish. Even if one ex has the physical custody and keeps trying to push the other ex out of the kids life... kids should ALWAYS come first.
When one dies... that's too bad.. but we generally don't plan on dying do we?
But please, don't be defensive, I made the post very very clear and precise: This is about a woman who obviously felt her biological clock ticking and got herself pregnant because of that reason. Because SHE wanted a baby..no matter what.
So my question is about this particular type of situation. Not fague, not general.There are many women out there who take this step because they tried getting a relationship, but weren't successful, for one reason or another.. no fault there... just happened. But does that warrant having a kid, knowing that a kid does need 2 rolemodels: male and female and the best rolemodels are still the biological parents.
Ps... You mentioned: No one has a say in it but her...
Well..depends how you look at it.. I would say that the kid has a say in it, because it is the kid's life basically.. but it can't talk yet, can it? | |
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| Single moms...
Posted: 7/13/2006 11:57:54 AM | Are you actually just upset because she didn't choose you as a potential sperm donor?
I think you just have to understand that the desire to have children-IN SOME WOMEN-is a powerful need to feel complete and that they have truly accomplished everything they wanted.
And ever thought that being without a father will reduce the chances of this child(if male) picking up his bad habits? Perhaps be a little more sympathetic? This goes both ways-some children are way better off being raised by their father with no outside influence from their mother. | |
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| Single moms...
Posted: 7/13/2006 1:26:47 PM | I use protection. And of course, remarks like that are laughable... just shows another little attempted pin prick to try to put someone down, becasue he/she doesn't have the right or polittically correct opinion..or merely doesn't share your opinion.
The question is whether it is selfish or not. I think it is. Yes, it is the woman's choice. As a matter of fact, even when 2 people are together and the woman gets pregnant, maybe by accident..in any case unplanned by the man... it is still her choice. EVEN if the guy doesn't want it, he'll be stuck (hopefully the laws will change on that issue some time).
I am sure that many people want to truely acomplish what they want.. but what risk are we taking, what are the consequences of our actions towards that goal?
But in this case, thinking of the future of this kid... just because the woman wants to feel complete, she is deciding over the future of another person... that is selfish. | |
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| Single moms...
Posted: 7/13/2006 3:19:24 PM | Boy there are some man haters on this post. Using a simple question as a pathertic excuse to go slagging off at 43 but never answering the question itself.
Kids do best when they are not sold short on the most important part of any family environment, LOVE.
Don't ask me for a specific defninition because there is none BUT It exists and it's important.
Two parents means twice the love. The extended family of aunts/uncles and such extends the love even further.
A single parents love for the child had to be total, committed, longer term, unwaverring. It's still possible but its an uphill battle.
But a single parent, who does love the child still has a bette chance than a married couple who had children , not because they wanted them, but because they were expected to. | |
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| Single moms...
Posted: 7/13/2006 3:25:50 PM |
Yes she may have been selfish in thinking only of herself not her unborn child.. but no one has any say in it but her.
So what if the father wants custody of that child? does he still have no say in it?
Why does society say that the Mother 'owns' the child and the man has no parental rights? | |
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| Single moms...
Posted: 7/13/2006 3:41:18 PM | "Why does society say that the Mother 'owns' the child and the man has no parental rights? "
That's also interesting. I can surely tell that I have more time for my sons then my ex does, even though they live with her. (And still she tries to push me away from my sons, amazing).
It's the 'kids'.. They are important, not the bickering between divorced people. Their balance, their feelings of being loved and guided, their sense of being safe (even if mom and dad are divorced). Once you have kids.. they become the center. period.
I am just wondering about any change of law in the future. Right now, most decisions are in favor of the mother, that's just the way it is.
And what if a man is not ready to have kids yet, but the woman is. Maybe the relationship isn't even good anymore, but the woman is pregnant (early pregnant). What happens if she decides to have the baby.. doesn't want him around... it's his sperm, his blood too, wouldn't it be equal to have him decide whether or not to have the baby as well? I would say.. if he doesn't and she does, and she refuses to end the pregnancy, then there should be a legal way to make him not responsible for the next 18 years either. She wants the baby without him.. ok..her choice, her responsibility, don't ask for child support then.
In cases like that... the mother cetrainly has the guy by the balls, doesn't she?  | |
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| Single moms...
Posted: 7/13/2006 3:52:16 PM | "Boy there are some man haters on this post"
That's the fun part. We are all supposed to be mommy's boys and listen to the stern and righteous opinions of the almighty woman. And if we stand up or complain or even just voice an opinion that hits a nerve .. bang.. we are subject to attempted emasculation.
Happily enough, most women are open, honest and intelligent... but you're right, some of them are hilarious..won't stop either until they get the last word in or bash someone.
I wonder what those women want? Do they really want mommy's boys who agree with them all the time..or do they want somebody who stands up for himself and has a personality, voices and justifies his opinion, no matter what? I think they want the latter... you know what they say... they secretly want the 'bad boys'... they will just never admit that.
You will see.. there will be reactions to this, bashing and all.. but it will prove my point...I can already predict from which ones.
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| Single moms...
Posted: 7/13/2006 4:46:08 PM | And what if a man is not ready to have kids yet, but the woman is. Maybe the relationship isn't even good anymore, but the woman is pregnant (early pregnant). What happens if she decides to have the baby.. doesn't want him around... it's his sperm, his blood too, wouldn't it be equal to have him decide whether or not to have the baby as well? I would say.. if he doesn't and she does, and she refuses to end the pregnancy, then there should be a legal way to make him not responsible for the next 18 years either. She wants the baby without him.. ok..her choice, her responsibility, don't ask for child support then.
In some locales that may be considered reasonable. I have a feeling, though, that should the mother go on welfare the state will sue for child support on her behalf. With the courts being as wacky as they are these days it's likely that a woman can allow herself to become pregnant through deception and the unlucky sod would still be liable for child support.
In the scenerio above, a legal concept called "presumption of paternity" may come into play especially for married couples. Findlaw has an interesting column that is tangentally related to this:
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/colb/20060418.html
And here is one about a guy who allegded that his then girlfriend impregnated herself after oral sex:
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/colb/20050309.html
Scary stuff, guys.
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| Single moms...
Posted: 7/13/2006 4:48:21 PM | You know, any guy who feels they are ready for a child can advertise for a surrogate mom, use a donated no name but health screened egg, his sperm and the baby born won't *belong* to anyone but him. Follow law to the letter, prolly won't cost near as much as getting a woman pregnant the normal way given the predicatably temporary state of most so-called *longterm* relationships.
Many people choose to have a baby out of selfishness. The good points in her decision are that: She is not a teenager; She probably had the resources in place (you didn't mention that she was a welfare case with a history of critical mental illness or some whacked thing like that), I assume she has a job? Family? Friends?; I'm expecting she's put many years of thought into this; The baby is wanted.
All of my children were conceived during my marriage, all were unplanned and tougher than the birth control I was taking-I also had ten miscarriages between # 2 and # 3. There is a part of me that would STIIL like to have a pregnancy that is planned, wanted, not rife with worry about money, marriage troubles, futures of the ones I already have, my health, the labor, etc.. I'd like to have a full 9 months of OH BOY I CAN HARDLY WAIT THIS IS SUCH A FANTASTIC MIRACLE!!!!! Instead of OMG what am I going to do??????
I would NOT, after raising three children alone- do it ever again if I could help it. It was the hardest thing. However, my kids have been a blast, even through times that were rough beyond imagining. I found many people to participate in the raising of them and they have become the kind of kids that get the effusive compliments from adults. Half the time, I feel like a celebrity in this town because of people stopping me to tell me how amazing one of my children is. I didn't do it alone. They've got the balance, sadly, without the father. There's pain, there's what if's. I'm certainly a BIG believer that a man is needed and father's rights need to be as EQUAL as a mother's (I do have sons, afterall, why would I want less for them?) but she can do it *alone* and it doesn't mean it was selfish at all.
Gini | |
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| Single moms...
Posted: 7/14/2006 5:50:31 AM | And it certainly isn't a cake walk doing the single mother thing on your own-so don't think she is being selfish-I'd imagine she has made a lot of self sacrafice-and who knows-maybe the father is being involved-whether she agrees or not-you'll never know.
Situations happen-sometimes an "accident" happens and the person does not believe in abortion-and loves the baby instantly and wants to do the best they can.
Sometimes men are great and are still so actively involved with the child that the little one never lacks for love from anyone.
Sometimes men are evil monsters-who try at every chance to put down their mother-hurt the child physically and emotionally.
Sometimes the man just shrugs his shoulders...it's too much trouble to go out of his way and make time to spend it with his child-after all they get child support-that should be enough.
And I am certainly not disagreeing that it happens both ways-that women do the same in other circumstances.
Sometimes women pop out kids just to collect the support.
Sometimes men and women lie about birth control to get pregnant-trying to control the relationship.
Sometimes it is just looking for a need to be filled-not the right way of course.
My decision to keep my sons father from his life(and the judge agreed) was due to his alcoholism/drug use/womanising. His time with him as a small child was usually being carted off to the bar so he could drink-and the waitresses or cook entertaining my son while there. I had statements proving this so it is not my overactive imagination. And no he doesn't pay support to any of his kids. I am doing this all on my own.
The fact that you are so angry at this woman-who you are no longer involved with...it is not your child...just doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
And FYI-I was not bashing you -I was cracking a joke...guess I should be hitting the little icons below to be sure that I am more clear on what I am writing-too many people in here with no sense of humor???
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| Single moms...
Posted: 7/14/2006 6:15:56 AM | Why does society say that the Mother 'owns' the child and the man has no parental rights?
This reminds me of something I read a while back in another forum... it seems fitting to what you have asked...
A man and his wife are in court getting a divorce. The problem was who should get custody of the child.
The wife jumped up and said:
"Your Honor, I brought the child into the world with pain and labour. She should be in my custody."
The Judge turns to the husband and says, "What do you have to say in your defence?"
The man sat for a while contemplating... then slowly rose.
"Your Honor, if I put a dollar in a vending machine and a Pepsi comes out, whose Pepsi is it? The machine's or mine?"
Edit: Lots of men have parental rights and do exercise those rights. The laws as slow as they are changing.. are changing. Every situation is different. Not ALL women become parents in the hopes that they will be single parents. In most cases it is a mutually agreed upon proposition by both parties whereby one or both parties it turns out lied to the each other/themselves or the one party for their own selfish reasons. The children had nothing to do with the broken promises and lies and abuse that go on in a relationship.
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| Single moms...
Posted: 7/14/2006 8:37:37 AM | To Cowgirl..
The single mother issue is a big issue. Lots of even younger women won't feel 'complete' without a kid, but what about the kid? And then when she gets a kid, she realizes the sacrifices..well... duuuuhhh... Kids need BOTH parents. PERIOD. And if circumstances change, parents should make the best of it and be adults for the sake of the kid. But this post was about women who choose to have a baby on their OWN, with obviously no intention to even have a father around.
And then you just had to say: 'The fact that you are so angry at this woman-who you are no longer involved with...it is not your child...just doesn't make a whole lot of sense '
Lady , learn how to read. I was very clear on the post and my subsequent answers. It's the ISSUE here, not some other stuff. Stop being personal, judgemental and assuming things that aren't there. All you seem to be able to do is to judge a poster because you just love to turn thing around and use yourself as the Prima Donna example... as if society should be a reflection of YOUR life and YOUR opinions and anybody having a different opinion.. BANG.. just bash him..... but you know what... you're not alone, as far as this attitude is concerned.
But you ARE alone ..BECAUSE of this attitude Think about that.
And then you wrote: "And FYI-I was not bashing you -I was cracking a joke...guess I should be hitting the little icons below to be sure that I am more clear on what I am writing-too many people in here with no sense of humor???"
Yeah, right...When I read your other posts, you don't seem to be the joking kind, but you do seem to be the kind to try to retract it constantly. Just like two boys getting into a little fight. One hits the other..."Oops, sorry, didn't mean it'. Then hits him again. 'Oops, sorry again? Nah.... . Doesn't hold up here, you keep doing it.
Before replying or posting next time, maybe you should read the posts of most other women here, who can express themselves with grace and strength. Whether they agree or not or maybe even partially, doesn't matter... they know how to stick to the subject and voice their opinion without getting personal....That is what intelligence looks like. Learn from it.
No go back to getting upset about bumperstickers. OK? | |
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| Single moms...
Posted: 7/14/2006 8:46:25 AM | | a women who has a child purely because they want one is selfish,think of that baby when he/she is 18 and wants to know there father. op your right ok yes I have two children but hey they know there daddy and he loves them very much and I would never take that away from them,kids need to know mummy and daddy and for those of you who have a child without respecting that are not fit to become a parent sorry but would you like to grow up knowing your mother had you and couldn't give a damn who the father was????????? | |
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| Single moms...
Posted: 7/14/2006 1:34:45 PM | | I guess the only 'safe' option for a guy is to make a deposit in a sperm bank and have a vasectomy. That's the only sure way an unethical woman and the biased legal system can't take advantage of him! | |
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| Single moms...
Posted: 7/14/2006 1:37:24 PM | | Laws on that have changed too... Some time ago I had heard of a legal case about a woman actually finding out who the spermdonor was (courtaction) and sued him for childsupport. | |
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| Single moms...
Posted: 7/14/2006 2:32:00 PM | The only safe route would appear to be abstension, but even then the courts can hold a guy liable if it can be demonstrated that he had provided financial support for a child that is not his and in lieu of any other support options, he can become "responsible". While in the distinct minority, the sad truth is that there are women out there working the system to their own ends.  | |
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| Single moms...
Posted: 7/14/2006 4:00:24 PM | | pffew... I better be very very careful then... I guess it is not as simple anymore as just falling in love and have a good life. | |
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| Single moms...
Posted: 7/14/2006 4:16:10 PM | | Without having read all the responses, perhaps this woman felt that she has plenty of support around her for the child to include the male role models such as her father or brothers. The male role model does not need to be the biological father. With regard to the thought that a male child being raised by a single mother would grow up to behave any less male in behavior, is ignorance and does not hold true for all. | |
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| Single moms...
Posted: 7/14/2006 5:16:21 PM | I respectfully disagree. A child is the product of both mother AND father. Biological as well as personality. Unless one of the parents is deemed dangerous or unfit, I would understand replacement of rolemodels... but to assume that the child will be fine without a dad in his life, the biological dad... I just can't accept that.
Also, a boy (or girl) growing up without his(her) real father will have an emtyness. Might be filled somewhat by grandpa or uncles.. but not completely... He will have friends with dads and will have that difference. He will spend time at their homes or camping with the dads of his friends and he won't have a real dad. His friends might even be picked up from school by dad... "Can I give you a ride too, son?"
I HAVE seen it, I 'AM' that.. with my sons' friends who grew up with a single mom and the dad wasn't there. I never asked what happened, so it could be any reason for the dad not being around. But the result was heartbreaking. "Your dad is cool" I had to overhear. Actually hearing " I WISH I HAD A DAD TOO" ..Breaks your heart and want to just take that kid and BE his dad, because he doesn't have one. They don't cry, they bury it and it doesn't come out YET.. only sometimes, buut as an adult, you can feel the pain, even if it is not your kid.
In some cases, when he asks, he will never even be told that the father was never in the picture, because the mother choose that.... but in fact he will be told that his father left before he was born (technically not a lie). But what does that do to his psyche? His father didn't want him, left him? TERRIBLE, JUST TERRIBLE. And we are asking oursleves what happened to our youth nowadays...this is what happens: The ease of letting kids just accept whatever is and not have an excuse. I am not saying at all that it is this particular issue is the cause...of course not.. this is just a small issue in comparison, but the whole fabric of family is torn. It's all so easy now.. but we just don't take responsibility of what is right for the kids..THEIR balance, THEIR happiness, THEIR lives. Priorities are all sc**ed up nowadays.
I still think that that assumption (to think that the kid will be fine) would be a mental justification to go ahead and have the kid. Any justification like that equals to trying to convince oneself that it's ok. Once people have to convince themselves, because the desire to have a kid is so strong.. that means that deep inside, they know there is something missing that should be there..at least the intention.
What ever happens afterwards..such as divorce, death or what have you... cannot be foreseen all the time and that's a different issue.
NO.. having a kid and assuming that he/she will be ok without a dad... No..just NO.
It is a big responsibility as well. Since it is the woman's choice to have the baby, they also should at least try to make sure or feel confident that the man fathering the baby will be there and love her and be a good dad. Not some young immature kid who just wants another nudge on his bedpost and will say anything to get that.
If he leaves.. childsupport is not enough. Dads who leave should have a specific choice.. Go to jail until your kids are 18..or be a good father.
others who are pissed of at the fathers and try to push them away from their kids, even if the father can be a good dad... they need a reality check too. Those are unfit mothers because they don't think in the best interest of the kids, only their own vengeance.
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| Single moms...
Posted: 7/14/2006 6:10:59 PM | And yes, if you are wondering... this one is personal. I had to fight my ex tooth and nail to see my sons and be in their lives, to be a dad for them. For a year, I was threatened with police action if I came close to my sons..and why? because I chose to leave HER, she couldbn't handle that, something about pride... For a year she did evrything to push me out of their lives, lies, brainwashing etc.. my sons hated me. I finally just started to pick them up from school, whether they liked it or not, no matter what my ex would think of doing.
I certainly didn not leave them.
Can you guess how it feels if your sons repeat and believe the nonsense and lies some vengeful ex tells them about you, and still does, after 6 years. And you can't say anything bad about her to them because you want to take the high road, while you're just itching to tell them.
Of course now they know better, they know the real me and we're great together.
But many men probably gave up he fight in that situation and that leaves the kids where?
So easy to make a kid... but then what?
So yes... this one is personal. Kids come first. ALWAYS! | |
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| Single moms...
Posted: 7/14/2006 6:20:19 PM | I find this sad for all involved. To start with I'm not bashing anyone here.
I am a single parent - yes.
Was it my choice - yes, after four years of abuse and fear of my daughters being abused I told him to leave.
Did I make the choice for my children not to be seen by him - yes and no, I didn't want them to be abused by him AND after he left the only time I heard from him was when our mutual friends told me of his threats to "Get the police and have the girls taken from me!".
He made the choice not to see them as at first I did not tell him that he could not see them. In fact, I never told him that. He also did not try to help with support even though I was not only supporting the girls but also his two boys from a previous relationship (deadbeat mom, there).
After almost a year the boys went to live with him and I, over time, I decided that it was better if the girls didn't see him. If he didn't care enough at the beginning of our separation to come see them or support them, he didn't need to see them now.
It's been ten years and we haven't seen him at all, nor has he ever supported them and I didn't ask or fight for it because I wouldn't have got any money from him. He always quit his job and ran from collectors. The Canadian Revenue Services phoned me up two years after our separation, looking for him, so how was I supposed to find him.
I am trying to protect me kids from abuse and hurt. I know he didn't change because I have been in contact with the boys and have been informed that my ex became even more abusive towards them after they went to live with him.
I would like to say that a two parent home is what's best for kids but since it didn't happen for mine and they've turned out good, I guess I can't. It all depends on the people involved. Some people just shouldn't be parents and some should. I never even went looking for another relationship until my girls were old enough to understand what it might mean to them. Which is to say, not until just recently.
My girls know that I wanted them and that I love them. They've asked me about their natural father and I've been honest. I think they should know now, so that they never get their hopes up about him. When they ask me when they are going to have a Dad, I tell them "When I find a good one." You never know, they've got to be out there somewhere.
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| Single moms...
Posted: 7/14/2006 7:47:13 PM | And what if a man is not ready to have kids yet- in this case the man should most definately use protection.
I believe that a child should be brought into a family where there are two parents. My ex and I have a son and he is very active in our son's life, as am I. I don't see any reason short of being in prison or needing to be in prison, to keep a child away from their father. | |
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| Single moms...
Posted: 7/14/2006 11:35:58 PM | As well, I am not bashing here...I agree in a perfect world every child should have a mother and father. Six years ago I was dating a man and we became pregnant. We were both scared at first, as it was unplanned. I did want to keep the baby, but never shoved my viewpoint down his throat. After a few weeks to come to terms with the pregnancy, my boyfriend was (seemed) very happy about the pregnancy. About 5 months into the pregnancy we had a few friends over and a woman I did not know came to our home. She asked me who the father of my baby was and I told her. She was very surprised and told me that he had been calling her for the past month or so. Then my boyfriend and this woman went into the spare bedroom (that we had picked to be our baby's room) and stayed in there with the door locked for most of the night. He would not answer the door. I called one of my friends to come and get me and take me away. He called me a few days later and told me that he had changed his mind and now did not want a baby. Well even if I wanted to have one, it was now way too late to have an abortion. I did not hear from him again until the morning after I had my daughter. He called me at the hospital and said, "so I hear you had a daughter, what do you want from me?" I informed him that I didn't want anything from him but what he chose to give (not meaning money). The last words I've heard from him was, "well if you decide you want some money for your baby, just don't send your lawyers after me". Since then he has proceeded to marry this other woman, have one child and is expecting another on the way and I have been told he is never around for his wife and child. My daughter is now 5. I have not dated anyone since I was pregnant. I work and rely on friends and family to help care for my child. As it happens, one of my best friends, who is male and was going to be my child's godfather, asked me if he could be my child's daddy when she was 2 weeks old. He has been there for my child, loving her as if she was his "own". She is aware that she has another father that is not in her life (does not know details). I never planned on becoming a single mother. I wouldn't trade it for the world though. I am not bitter over the relationship ending the way it did, and I hope my ex is very happy being a father with his other child. My daughter does not lack for love from a mother or father and even though her 'daddy' and I don't live together, he is always there for her when she needs him. It would have been so much harder doing this by myself, but I would have done it and my child would not have lacked for any love.
I am just wondering how you found out that she went out and intentionally got pregnant? Also, despite how her baby came to be, do you seen any evidence that she has put her needs first since the child has been born? Again, just wondering.
I have never gone after my ex for child support, because as far as I'm concerned, he was not supportive enough to be there for his baby, I don't want his money to replace his physical support in our child's life. By the way, he told his family afterwards that I had lied to him about the paternity of my child and then that I had moved away, so they couldn't see her. His family does know the truth now, but they themselves have choosen not to have any contact with their grandchild. By the way, his parents are happily married, while I was a child of divorce.
I would have loved having my ex be in my child's life, but he chose not to be and there is nothing I can do to change that, so I accept it. | |
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