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| Ladies and Gentlemen: DISCOVERY IS SAFELY HOME!
Posted: 7/17/2006 11:23:46 AM | Hi....I'm with you.....I saw it too, just beautiful, and thank you God. It was worrisome however, we have had so much loss in the past 20 years with NASA. So, like you, American female here, teacher, Mass. Sadly, we are in the extreme minority, as you can tell, no one else has posted, sharing our joy, no "Congratulations!" Nothing. This is a Canadian site, and worse, extremely leftist, with which I could live with I guess, but they are extremists to the point of attacking anything we do or do not do, as well as our culture and values. Even, our educational system...which, we are working on, seriously, hard to be a teacher today, so MANY tests!!! But, who else got to the moon? I interpret all of this after 10 days, as simply plain old "anti-Americanism." I am gonna take my ball and go find another playground....maybe you may want to think about doing the same. But again, I'm with you!
Boston, MASS. | |
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| Ladies and Gentlemen: DISCOVERY IS SAFELY HOME!
Posted: 7/17/2006 11:49:25 AM | Thanks. But I'm thinking that perhaps it isn't out of disinterest, although that certainly is prevalent these days -- but in terms of current events, probably not so important over what is going in Korea, Isreal, Afghanistan, Iran, and Iraq and has most of the world's attention. Then there's the staggering price of gas and economy woes here at home.
Yet, this landing is a bright spot in US history and I think it's a good thing to be very happy about. | |
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rks58
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Joined: 1/28/2006
Msg: 4 | |
| Ladies and Gentlemen: DISCOVERY IS SAFELY HOME!
Posted: 7/17/2006 1:37:18 PM | It certainly is cause for a sigh of relief.
Space travel has always been an extremely dangerous endeavour, particularly during launch and landing but that is not the biggest reason for the sigh.
I am certain that someone will find grounds to accuse me of "bashing" or "hating" for stating the reason but here goes.
Public apathy over the space program (in the very country pursuing it) led to years of neglect and budget cuts. This comprimised the safety of those who were willing to strap themselves on top of tons of highly volatile chemicals and ride a controlled explosion to reach the least survivable environment imaginable. The tragedies of Columbia and Challenger were products of that apathy.
The risks posed by this apathy still exist, the problem is not yet solved and until the public is willing to look on the shuttle program with the same awe and reverence as Mercury/Gemini/Apollo that unnecessary element of additional risk will continue to exist.
THAT is the reason it merits a sigh of relief.
The space program is one of the most laudable adventures the US (and Russia, China, Canada, etc.) has ever embarked on. It should be viewed in those terms but the government will continue to give it short shrift as long as the public allows them to. What needs to return is the awe and admiration that the public once held for the space program.
p.s.
This is a Canadian site, and worse, extremely leftist, with which I could live with I guess, but they are extremists to the point of attacking anything we do or do not do, as well as our culture and values. Even, our educational system... I interpret all of this after 10 days, as simply plain old "anti-Americanism."
Nice guerilla operation there, piggy-backing a conservative rant on a non-political issue. You might want to actually read some of those posts you say are "anti-American" and attacking American culture and values. Compare them with things like the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and the veritable font of wisdom that are the words of the founding fathers. You might get a better picture of who is really attacking and who is really defending that culture and those values. | |
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| Ladies and Gentlemen: DISCOVERY IS SAFELY HOME!
Posted: 7/17/2006 3:14:32 PM | Public apathy over the space program (in the very country pursuing it) led to years of neglect and budget cuts. This comprimised the safety of those who were willing to strap themselves on top of tons of highly volatile chemicals and ride a controlled explosion to reach the least survivable environment imaginable. The tragedies of Columbia and Challenger were products of that apathy.
The risks posed by this apathy still exist, the problem is not yet solved and until the public is willing to look on the shuttle program with the same awe and reverence as Mercury/Gemini/Apollo that unnecessary element of additional risk will continue to exist.
No argument from me on your statements. I think you are right!
The fact that Nasa and the US govt basically STOPPED everything after Apollo 17 -- losing massive brain power on the project and never another attempt speaks volumes! We are talking well over 30 years ago!!
We got the brain power back again for the shuttle missions but the gap between the Apollo program and the Shuttle program was several more years! More highly skilled and capable aerospace engineers off to other careers. Then following the last tragedy, more have had to move on.
And now the gov't is in a big hurry to get back to the moon (duh) with so little time to accomplish the last of the shuttle missions in that safe mode. Kinda scary when the funding is on a shoestring basis.
It seems --to me-- that our whole economy is under the foot of big governments elsewhere-- we are constantly robbing Peter (social security, which did have a few years ago, a whopping surplus) and borrowing heavily from these same countries-- to pay Paul: "the war in Iraq."
There doesn't seem to be much left over for anything else. Debts we have are staggering and I doubt if we ever see adequate funding for the space program... what has changed after 30yrs? And that saddens me. | |
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| Ladies and Gentlemen: DISCOVERY IS SAFELY HOME!
Posted: 7/17/2006 4:06:53 PM | I saw Discovery come home on tv. I have never missed watching a launch or landing of any of these magic birds since i was a kid in grade two. I was home sick that day and i was watching the launch of Challenger on that ill fated day. I remember trying to call out for my mom to come see what happen, but my voice was too horse, so i had to run into the kicthen and turn on the tv for her to see. I stayed glued to the tv for a along time after that listening to the reporters talk. I must have been about 8 at that time, all i want to know is what caused that beautful shuttle and it brave crew to be lost.
I was also lucky once as a kid to see the shuttle (can't remember which one) fly piggy back (on the back of a plane) over Montreal on it's way back from a air show over seas.
This shuttle is the only one i have ever known in my life time (i am 28) As a Canadian I am proud to see my country made the "canadian" arm for it which are enabled parts of the INS to be built,the paltfom form which hubble was fixed. Has aided the crew in many space walks, has been used in cheaking the shuttle for defects. It's a pretty cool arm!
I know all good things come to a end but the last flight of these craft will be a sad day for me,I only hope i get to see only take off before they gone. | |
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| Ladies and Gentlemen: DISCOVERY IS SAFELY HOME!
Posted: 7/17/2006 4:26:21 PM | Hey, all:
I guess I am one of those who have lost interest in manned space exploration. I am old enough to remember everything from Sputnik to today's return. In the early 60s I could see Echo, a 100 ft metallicized-skin balloon spacecraft, go over. I had a little sample of the Mylar skin. I am very troubled though, by the apparent disregard of human safety among the managers at NASA, and the long term plans the so-called visionaries have made part of NASA's mission.
I can't understand why, with all the tremendous collected mental power, they can't launch without big chunks of foam coming off. Yes, it is an extremely highly stressed situation--so what? Not an excuse--despite the managers themselves using it.
The long term plans for manned space flight include going back to the moon, then to Mars. Especially as it pertains to Mars, the cost to the taxpayers, and the alteration of the Martian atmosphere, is horrendous. They need, they say, to alter the Martian atmosphere by pumping CFCs into the Martian air, to create a form of Martian greenhouse gases which will, they say, make the atmosphere more Earth-like. They call it "terraforming". What is the purpose? Commercial exploitation of the planet in whatever way they can, and the opportunity for humans to colonize the planet. Who will get to go? None of us, that is for goddam sure. If you don't have the money or connections, forget it. So while we pay the huge price of the missions, as the Earth is more and more exploited by the same commercial interests, we will then not have any of the benefit.
Yeah, I used to look at the International Space Station go over, and long before that, Skylab. Watched with fascination at the moon landings. Years ago, one shuttle had to land at Edwards, then be put on the 747, which landed in San Antonio on the way back to Cape Kennedy--drove 6 hours round trip just to see it at a distance of at least 2 miles. One of the shuttles flew over at high altitude where I live on approach to the Cape on a return--very cool sonic boom. Used to be filled with the spirit, so to speak.
But with the oligarchy taking over everything, including the mission and engineers at NASA, I have lost my interest in manned space flight. I am glad they are back.
David
Messages done with sustainable energy, with Wind and Sun! | |
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rks58
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Joined: 1/28/2006
Msg: 8 | |
| Ladies and Gentlemen: DISCOVERY IS SAFELY HOME!
Posted: 7/17/2006 4:58:25 PM |
I guess I am one of those who have lost interest in manned space exploration.
It is easy to do this. With so many other pressing issues right here on the ground (I won't list them, starts at a and ends at z) this can easily be seen in the light of "what's the point?".
It is still a very esoteric pursuit and will be for decades to come. Very much like "hey, let's go climb that mountain! Why? Because it's there and we can!". That is exactly the point of it though. We keep plugging away at it because it's there and we can, because it's one of those few realms of exploration and knowledge that will help us to better understand where and how all of "it" (creation and existence) came about.
It is one of the areas of endeavour that doesn't come down to issues of us/them, (unless we encounter a "them" in the process), left/right, etc. In point of fact, such divisions are anti-thetical to it if only by virtue of the difficulty of the pursuit and the hostility to life of the environment it occurs in.
We set sail on this new sea because there is new knowledge to be gained, and new rights to be won, and they must be won and used for the progress of all people. For space science, like nuclear science and all technology, has no conscience of its own. Whether it will become a force for good or ill depends on man, and only if the United States occupies a position of pre-eminence can we help decide whether this new ocean will be a sea of peace or a new terrifying theater of war. I do not say that we should or will go unprotected against the hostile misuse of space any more than we go unprotected against the hostile use of land or sea, but I do say that space can be explored and mastered without feeding the fires of war, without repeating the mistakes that man has made in extending his writ around this globe of ours.
There is no strife, no prejudice, no national conflict in outer space as yet. Its hazards are hostile to us all. Its conquest deserves the best of all mankind, and its opportunity for peaceful cooperation may never come again. But why, some say, the moon? Why choose this as our goal? And they may well ask why climb the highest mountain. Why, 35 years ago, fly the Atlantic? Why does Rice play Texas? We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too.
Those are statements that still resonate for me. Guess I really sound like a liberal now. | |
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| Ladies and Gentlemen: DISCOVERY IS SAFELY HOME!
Posted: 7/17/2006 5:16:02 PM | ahmen! and good for you charlie girl, for at least attempting to start a post that was positive and grateful! People just love to spar on these forums....(hey, I addmit, I can jump right in there with the best of em, if it is appropriate)... : and, it only took the first reply to load up a response with political agenda.
But, whats wrong with an occasional thread that is just plain positive and grateful. period. I didn't get to watch the actual landing...saw snippits on news briefs...but, I'm with you... it does tighten my throat and fill me with a wonderful kind of pride and satisfaction....(all the problems of the space program not withstanding).
Now.... I'm waiting for the day when we can launch space missions without having to do it with gargantuan 5oo foot tubes filled with extremely volitile flamable fuel!!! Won't that be a nice change! Am interesting note: with all our scientific progress over the past 2 centuries... we are still in the age of Fire. | |
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| Ladies and Gentlemen: DISCOVERY IS SAFELY HOME!
Posted: 7/17/2006 5:18:35 PM | I'm glad they made it home safely. No I don't pay attention to all these shuttles; seems they are not the big news they were in the early years of space travel.
The Columbia brought my attention home as it fell apart over the town I was living in, close to Palestine Texas.
The sonic boom made my unmovable cedar log bed walk across the floor and
made the ceiling appear to move.. kind of a shuffle.
We thought it was a gas line or seismic work in the area.
We found out a couple of hours later what really happened and even then,
the news was sparce and often wrong.
My son was in the National Guard and picked up bodies. They also found, in the 'forested' area, the body of a young girl with a backpack... we never heard the results of
who this girl was - evidently missing for a long time.
It is sad that we tend to pay more attention to the worst situations and not the good ones.
Same is true of many issues in life. | |
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| Ladies and Gentlemen: DISCOVERY IS SAFELY HOME!
Posted: 7/17/2006 5:42:51 PM | I too watched the shuttle land safely and I'm glad they made it in one piece. Next stop hopefully...back to the moon. 
Since the Columbia disaster it was highlighted how dangerous it can be to fly shuttles, especially when the slightest bit of damage can be deadly. I'm pleased to see that Discovery managed to overcome the dangers.
Go NASA!!!!! 
Here's an idea...now that NASA is back on track...the next time the shuttle brings people back down from the station...I think the ground crew greeting them (just once) should dress up as apes and give them a real shock when they step off the craft.  | |
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| Ladies and Gentlemen: DISCOVERY IS SAFELY HOME!
Posted: 7/18/2006 3:42:18 AM | Rsks, I was with you, then you fissed me off. Guerilla??? How dare you. Rant? telling an American not to waste her time here? I HAVEN't READ this crap all OVER this site? How dare you. Guerilla???????????? Gee, Canadians have a Bill of Rights? DO WE attack THEM, even in OUR press??????? How dare you. Did your uncles die in WWII, Korea???
How dare you..IF you read it, there were NO POSTS from ONE Canadian, YOU (I assume Canadian now because of your HATE mongering, which proves my point) I simply said, I know, we're lucky, but, they don't get it, or share out joy. Oh, and leftist? Again, proves my point. SO leftist, just move the hell to China or Cuba, Maybe they'll take you. HOW DARE YOU. Oh, I don't get even, I wait for karma, and man, it is coming your way. Be off. | |
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yna6
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Joined: 5/2/2004
Msg: 13 | |
| Ladies and Gentlemen: DISCOVERY IS SAFELY HOME!
Posted: 7/18/2006 8:39:32 AM | I watched the landing...holding my breath. Glad they made it back.
Americans are not the only ones to be proud....many nations are out there working. As a race, we should be proud! We do need more space development though, and faster too! | |
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| Ladies and Gentlemen: DISCOVERY IS SAFELY HOME!
Posted: 7/18/2006 10:49:13 AM |
a non-political issue
I'll have to disagree with you there, rks58. The space program has always been a political issue, or otherwise Kennedy would not have spent so much airtime on it. Sure, space exploration was ignited by a desire to explore, but it was inflamed and sustained by the politics of the time. If it weren't for our intense competition with the Soviets, we probably would not have sent men to the moon yet! We would have sent probes out, but not people.
Even in its time the manned space program was controversial. The US was fighting in Vietnam, blacks were fighting for civil rights, and many thought the space program was a frivolous expenditure of government funds. Apathy for men in space was setting in even then. Glad to hear that you are not that way, rks58.
I think the really good news is that space exploration is gaining momentum in the private sector, spearheaded by Rutan's successful spaceplane. The bad news is that the US was in such a hurry in the 60's that they didn't document what they were doing. We would have to "reinvent the wheel" in many ways to get people to the moon again.
And just for the record, I don't see Kennedy as all that liberal. | |
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rks58
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Joined: 1/28/2006
Msg: 15 | |
| Ladies and Gentlemen: DISCOVERY IS SAFELY HOME!
Posted: 7/18/2006 11:46:35 AM |
The space program has always been a political issue, or otherwise Kennedy would not have spent so much airtime on it.
I will grant you that. It is even alluded to in the lines I quoted such as:
For space science, like nuclear science and all technology, has no conscience of its own. Whether it will become a force for good or ill depends on man, and only if the United States occupies a position of pre-eminence can we help decide whether this new ocean will be a sea of peace or a new terrifying theater of war....
...There is no strife, no prejudice, no national conflict in outer space as yet.
There are other lines from that same speech that allude to the same thing. The Kennedy administration tried on several occaisions to garner common co-operation with the Soviets but they were so far ahead and the ideological gulf so wide that it didn't happen then. Today, however, is a very different story. With the exception of SDI's attempt at the militarization of space (and some might argue spy satelites), space has become a very non-political arena with common co-operation of a type generally not seen in other terrestrial spheres. In that sense it was more an extension of military competition because of it's military potential. Thankfully no-one ever took it to the level it could have gone.
It still remains the one area that is, generally, considered "common heritage".
That wasn't the "politics" I was referring to, though. I was making more reference to partisan politics which, while some tried to make their "political bones" off of it, was largely a non-starter. It has never really been a major election issue nor has it really been the source of scandal or political "feather in the cap" that so many other issues have been played as (again, SDI was the exception to that rule and rightly so). | |
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arri
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Joined: 10/5/2005
Msg: 16 | |
| Ladies and Gentlemen: DISCOVERY IS SAFELY HOME!
Posted: 7/18/2006 12:24:45 PM | I do have a beef or 2 with the political side of space exploration.
Once the power that be realized that there was no advantage to placing nuclear weapons platforms in orbit ... both sides signed a deal to keep nuclear technology out of space.
It was just a bone for the rest of to chew on ... but that also stopped the progress in nuclear thermal rocket engines, nuclear powered ion drive and few other very workable propulsion technologies that could be taking us to Mars and beyond.
Also, once they were done showing off their rockets (Just like all those Atomic tests, the space race was a demonstration of delivery capabilities) they cut the funding.
The Shuttle was developed in the 70s .. came on line in 81 and it is the best we have. It was sad to see that we are still forced to fly a machine that is that old. What is more sad, we still don't even have a replacement for it. | |
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rks58
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Joined: 1/28/2006
Msg: 17 | |
| Ladies and Gentlemen: DISCOVERY IS SAFELY HOME!
Posted: 7/18/2006 12:54:30 PM |
... but that also stopped the progress in nuclear thermal rocket engines, nuclear powered ion drive and few other very workable propulsion technologies that could be taking us to Mars and beyond.
At the time the treaty was signed the vast majority of the public (as always not very scientifically informed) were still thinking of nuclear propulsion in terms of using "controlled" nuclear explosions as the propulsive force (nuclear pulse propulsion). This, of course was a scary thought for most, partly because of the "nuclear bomb" aspect of it and partly because of the idea that it was just an excuse to put bombs into orbit.
The use of nuclear power in space is not prohibited by the treaty (in one form or another it serves as a power source on many probes). The only real impediment to its' use is the common (and largely irrational) fear of the spread of nuclear contamination during a launch accident and the general (and largely irrational) fear of nuclear power in general.
Development and use of nuclear power for space travel is really just a question of educating the masses in order to alleviate the general (and largely irrational) fear of anything that involves to use of the words "nuclear" and "radiation". | |
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arri
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Joined: 10/5/2005
Msg: 18 | |
| Ladies and Gentlemen: DISCOVERY IS SAFELY HOME!
Posted: 7/18/2006 1:19:09 PM |
Development and use of nuclear power for space travel is really just a question of educating the masses in order to alleviate the general (and largely irrational) fear of anything that involves to use of the words "nuclear" and "radiation".
It's okay to put nuclear powered submarines .. armed with nuclear weapons in our oceans .. the heart of the planetary ecosystem ... but wrong to put them in space where there is tonnes of natural radiation | |
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