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| Do you think Men & Women will ever Trust each other,enough to be friends?
Posted: 8/3/2006 7:06:05 PM | Hi everybody I don't usely post over hear, but more & more I find the maturity I'm looking for in your threads. My question is at are age, we've been around the block more then a few times. And some of our relationship's have been worse then other's, but we are all brought
here to meet people, make friend's. But deep down weather we want to admit it or not, we would like to meet that special someone that will fill our loneliness inside. Because somewhere
in our past we did have someone to share our lives with. There must have been good times and memories of that relationship, before it went bad. And we want that feeling of waking up next to someone, Sunday morning and plan to spend a great day together.
My point ( and I do have one), if you read the thread's there is a lot of lack of trust for the opposite sex. Have we been screwed over to many times, that we've put wall's up around our self's so we don't get hurt again? It's easy to joke around in the post's and that our way of being social, getting to know the regulars. But let face it, we'd be happier if we found that special person we're looking for. But how can we find them if we won't take down the wall's of distrust. It's not easy, but what if we started at the friendship level. We ladies are afraid
that some creep is going to be all over us like white on rice.
And the men get the pressure" what if she all over me, before we even leave the restaurant"
And I'm going to have to perform tonight. But if we all started to trust one another like we do
behind our computer's, and agree to start friendship's with the opposite sex, we just might find
the friend we've be looking for all along. There is no rush, let's take our time, go out with
each other, get to know one another as individual's.Men Then women can stop paying, for all
woman that have stood you up & Women we can stop making all men pay for the guy that was all over you before you caught your foot in the door. I recently lost my son, and I had
no one to turn to but you people, my friend's at POF. And I couldn't believe how many really nice, compassionate people are in the pond. They didn't know me, but they showed me that
there is a lot of wonderful men & woman in the pond. So why aren't we connecting? Because
we have to start taking down the brick's that surround our heart's. The best way to do that is to start to trust, just 1 person that's asked you out, but be clear it's as a friend. like I said friendship IS the foundation to any relationship. I don't know may-be lack of sleep or food, or
may be it's the time I've had to think about what's really important. This is a dating site & we're all here for the same reason. And I know personally that there are really nice lonely
people hear. So what do you all think?   | |
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| Do you think Men & Women will ever Trust each other,enough to be friends?
Posted: 8/3/2006 7:35:21 PM | I have no problems like you describe ... thank goodness. I have not put up any walls. (scanned back up to make sure I am in the over 45 forum)
The most prominent thing I have been running into are men so set in their ways that they lack the flexibility to incorporate a woman into their lives.
I am running into a lot of men my age that are reaching a point in their lives that they no longer have the capacity to be flexible enough to welcome a woman with my energy levels and interests into their lives. It seems the longer they are single, the more time they devote to their regimens and daily schedules and the more inflexible they become to adapting to any other person. I don't think they even realize they have become like that ...
Here's an excellent example:
My roommate is a 50 year old man. We talk about this subject from time to time ... I do it on purpose because I think he's in a rut ... no wait, "think" is the wrong word there ... he is in a rut ... no question about it.
I have asked him if he thinks he'd like to have a woman in his life again someday ... he says yes. In a relationship? ... yes. Marriage? ... yes. He's a member on POF. But he does nothing at all to go about pursuing it. He works the 3P - 11P shift.
He comes home and before he even puts down his tote bag from work, he walks to the computer and turns it on. Then it's to the kitchen for a beer, by then the computer has fired up. He plants himself in front of the computer with his cigarettes and beer (up to 12 or more in one sitting) for the next 5 1/2 hours and plays some sort of online game (I believe it's called "final fantasy"), then gets up and goes to bed. He sleeps until 1 1/2 hours before he has to be at work and then the process starts over again.
He says he likes to dance ... I have asked him if he'd be interested in going with me on one of his nights off ... see what it's all about ... maybe sign up for lessons. We always have more ladies than men! No ... he just wants to play his little game on the computer ... night after night. I can't even get him off of it long enough to go out for dinner with me occasionally ... my treat. If I get him away for anything ... it's to go pick up some Mexican take out and then he eats that at the computer.
Another example of a man in a serious rut: I met a gentleman who seemed interested ... we did the email thing, then the phone thing, finally decided to meet. Met for breakfast at a reasonably priced place ... nothing fancy. There was "get to know you talk" before the order was taken and for about 5 minutes thereafter and then it started. No doubt the subject was dating and expectations. It hit me like a lead balloon ... out of the blue.
From one minute to the next this guy is going on about his daily regimen and how his life runs like a well-oiled machine. Sure didn't sound like he had any space in it for a lady and her interests at all ... didn't appear to be interested in what my interests were either. And as if that wasn't enough, he then proceeds to tell me how he has a completely furnished house with everything he needs ... furniture right on down to the last utensil in the kitchen ... "so if a woman enters his life, she'd basically not need to bring a thing along but her clothes". Actually said in a bragging manner.
HUH? Okay, so I'm 57 years old and I've simply reached this age in a doggone vacuum? I have no other personal belongings I'd want with me in a future life with a man except my clothes and toothbrush? Nothing that relates to any of my hobbies? (Sewing, cooking, dancing, singing, home improvement, biking ... ). Not a single picture or trinket?
Both good examples of how men who say they want a woman in their lives actually push them out and away from their lives. | |
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| Do you think Men & Women will ever Trust each other,enough to be friends?
Posted: 8/3/2006 7:36:39 PM | Green Eyes, I see tons of wisdom in your post, and I agree with all you said - we have to learn to trust again. I just don't know when I'll be able to.
Two divorces where I was cheated on, then dumped ignomiously while they ran off with that lover to either party or get married have left scars and hurt, distrust and suspicion where there should be friendly acceptance and more - but it's very hard to stick that foot back in the cold waters of the pond - at my age I expected to be married the rest of my life and things happened fast and painfully when it ended. Today's dating scene is far different from what it was when I last was "available" over 17 years ago - the first time I heard the phrase "friends with benefits" I was truly puzzled, then hitting the dating sites and reading profiles where people wanted to "hang out" or have "other relationships" left me wondering if I even wanted to try again. I have a small circle of friends in RL who I go dancing with, to concerts with, and out to eat with - but that's it, and believe me, I don't enjoy going to bars to try to meet people, so that's out for me.
I've forced myself to join some dating sites, and POF is one of the best I've found so far, many people willing to talk in the forums and discuss almost anything - makes sticking that big toe back in the water much easier when you can see others who have experienced the same things you have and dealt with them, coming out wiser and better for the trials.
I do believe that there is someone for everyone, and that we all have to open up and be vunerable enough to find that person, then make the connection - I'm not sure I'm ready for that, so I'm going to keep dancing, smiling, being a father to my boys, and  .
Wes | |
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| Do you think Men & Women will ever Trust each other,enough to be friends?
Posted: 8/3/2006 7:52:36 PM | I was thinking all throught your post that everything your saying makes perfect sense. even though you've suffered the greatest loss that can be, you're still looking out for others (with brick walls).
I don't think very many people know thay have these walls and are hurt when you point out the bricks.
I had a good discussion about maintaining growth today and partly how growth takes letting go of fears that prevent growth.
I'm glad you asked and would invite you to a meeting but the air fare is high and I'm not driving to Canada yet.
Ive never entered a relationship with someone that wasn't a friend of and don't expect that I ever will.
We find ourselves in the pressure of choosing "the one" so much that if it's not 'the one', it's not worth the effort to see if there's even a possible friendship. | |
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| Do you think Men & Women will ever Trust each other,enough to be friends?
Posted: 8/3/2006 7:58:11 PM | Wes, I completely understand were your coming from. It's hard when someone Rip's out your heart and you thought you were going to be married for live. But you joined POF right, so
part of you is trying to make a new start. Have you talked to any one from here? If so try having and e-mail conversation with them till you feel comfortable, and if they rush you, tell them your story. you might just find a friend that has the same thing happen to them. Then you have something in-common, and a new friend to relate to. A lot of people hear have been hurt, Give it a try.
Best of luck, and don't give up.  | |
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| Do you think Men & Women will ever Trust each other,enough to be friends?
Posted: 8/3/2006 8:06:48 PM | I'm not giving up - in fact there is a funny story to that...
My 5 y/o son asked me one day if I had a girlfriend, about a year and a half after his mother left me... I said no, why do you ask? His older brother replied that they were worried about me being at my computer all the time and never going out, never seeing anyone, and he did not want me to become a grumpy old hermit. Evidently they had talked about this several times and decided to ask me... I was driving them to a birthday party at the moment they asked and almost found the ditch with the front of my pickup...
Let me tell you, that set me back on my heels like nothing else has - first that the older one thought about me that much in between his school, a service club he organized and started, summer baseball, Boy Scouts, the church youth group he's involved heavily in, and just growing up, and secondly that he saw something in me that I did not see myself - walls going up, fortifications being constructed, and a general desire to be away from society forming. It caused me to think long and hard about what I wanted with my life and what to do to get there... Kids say the darndest things at the darndest times and I love my boys dearly - they got me good that day!
Being here on POF is one of the good things that has happened since that July day a few years ago, and I'm e-mailing a few people, just the fish in our pond are not exactly plentiful down here in Louisiana, unlike the catfish, bream, bass and white perch in the swamps!
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| Do you think Men & Women will ever Trust each other,enough to be friends?
Posted: 8/3/2006 8:30:20 PM | Cotter, you sound very hostile, there is no reason to be upset with this man you had breakfast with, you met, you talked and he is diffenitly not the man for you. So why not just put it up to experience and move on. He has a right to want his life his way, it might not suit you, but some woman might jump right in there. We are all different 1 date and you found out he's not your type. You sound like you have a lot of energy to offer the right man. No all men sit in front of a computer screen playing games, if anything I found a lot of guy's want to do things. When you read their profile, they usely say what there hobby's are. Or try even going for someone younger then yourself, they would most likely not be a couch potato. one bad apple doesn't spoil the whole bunch.
Good luck in finding a friend that will share the same interest's  | |
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| Do you think Men & Women will ever Trust each other,enough to be friends?
Posted: 8/3/2006 8:48:49 PM | | Wes I know where you are coming from , it sounds like a mirror image of what happened to me, BUT if it was not meant to be it was not meant to be, I harbor no bitterness or resentment or reservations about woman, just like us men they are all different, you just have not found the right one and the ones you lost, its there loss not yours! I am a very active 50 year old, I loath laying around except for the occasional down time, ie when its pouring rain, or 60 below zero a good movie, I would love to find someone, I am flexible , very open and would give and take in a relationship but I believe my next one we will have to be friends and have some chemistry between us in order for it to work. Just hang in there Wes, you have your children, mine are grown and flown the coop so to speak, it could happen anytime! | |
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| Do you think Men & Women will ever Trust each other,enough to be friends?
Posted: 8/3/2006 8:55:38 PM | I will agree that men become very set in their ways, most likely due to lack of opportunity to get out of that rut. I have pretty much done the same routine day by day, because there has been no one there to change it for, for ten years or so. It's like...my house is a total mess, and I don't care because no one has ever been here to see it, but then I can't invite anyone here to see it because the house is a total mess!
There have been so much "false information" given on these online sights, that the only thing left here that is good, is the forum conversation. I will admit that I came on this site as a last resort, after striking out at the pay sites, but it seems all the great ladies are so far away!
No one from my area ever posts....and that is how you learn about a person; by the candid comments in these posts.
Will I ever trust a woman enough to be friends? Only if it is determined up front that it is to be friends. I keep going back to being friends with a lady with whom I had a "relationship" about ten years ago. I never got over the relationship part...I still feel strongly for her! But, lately she has reappeared in my life in the "friendship" mode. Do I trust her to continue to be a friend? no. Do I trust myself to accept it as a friendship, and not want to resume a relationship? NO!
If I had more of a social life, and had met more ladies, either as friends or relationships, I might be better able to handle this situation, but again, the catch 22..there is no one around to spend time with, so how do I know if I can trust anyone? Better and safer to be the lonely "Fool on the Hill"? maybe, maybe not. | |
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mw6
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Joined: 10/22/2005
Msg: 12 | |
| Do you think Men & Women will ever Trust each other,enough to be friends?
Posted: 8/3/2006 8:55:41 PM | greeneyedlady;
Very good thread, gets us knuckleheads to thinking. I also admire your ability to look beyond your recent loss, to reach out to others.
Trust is a must. Letting go of constantly thinking of ourself first is important too. Sometimes hard to do for the isolated batchelor guy.
We all long for the special closeness with that one special person, but seems like maybe we do not want to go through all of those experiences to get there. We are either affraid or lazy, I am not sure which.
All I know is that we all sometimes have to let go of our self interests long enough to, just as you say, start out with the expectation of getting a new friend, stay in the now and see what happens.
I met the woman of my dreams once, just by offering a birthday card to cheer her up because she was in a tough situation on a day that happened to be her birthday. Did not know her at all but wanted to take her mind off her delima and make her smile. Turned out to be a life changing thing for me-sent out what I thought was just a nice little note and it had a huge impact on her and resulted in us becoming life long friends. I guess my point is that we never know how we affect the world around us and we never know what the universe is going to send back but we have to reach out somehow, in some way.
Thanks again for the great post. And I'm gonna have to figure out a way to visit Canada.
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| Do you think Men & Women will ever Trust each other,enough to be friends?
Posted: 8/3/2006 8:58:14 PM | But Wes I never said you were a swamp thing - but there is something to be said for you finding a swamp woman - first of all studies have proven that mud wrestling is a great form of cardio vascular exercise and second of all mud is great for the skin so...as I see it you are in a win win situation    | |
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| Do you think Men & Women will ever Trust each other,enough to be friends?
Posted: 8/3/2006 9:15:25 PM | Greeneyedlady
You have posted an interesting thread here. I have been divorced for a long time. I spent years building that wall around my heart. But I've spent the last few years dismanteling it,brick by brick. Of course,there are two sides to every story and if you were to talk to my ex-wife,you might come away relating more to her side than mine. But it's not a story that I like to talk about anyway. The only good thing that came from my marriage are my two sons, and through them my six grandchildren. I've had several relationships since then, but they did'nt last. And that might have been because they grew weary of running up against that wall. But there are some things that I'm not willing to talk about,even with a friend.
I do agree however,that friendship is the basis for a good and lasting relationship. And I don't do one night stands, I want to meet a woman that I can be friends with as well as lovers and soul-mates. Will I find her? I don't know. But I won't give up,and I will keep working on that wall,taking it apart brick by brick. | |
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| Do you think Men & Women will ever Trust each other,enough to be friends?
Posted: 8/3/2006 9:35:59 PM | OP ... I'm sorry if I sounded hostile ... or upset. That is far from the case. And as far as that man was concerned ... there was nothing to move on about ... it was a first meeting after a few emails and phone calls ... I wasn't hooked on him!
You're absolutely right that some other woman might be glad to step up and in to that situation ... but she'd have to be leading a pretty empty existence prior to meeting him to fit into his plan for a woman in his life.
And that was the whole point of my post ... to point out that these guys are putting up these walls ... brick by brick ... each in their own ways. I have had dates on here and prior to joining POF, from other dating sites. With those men that I do not have romantic relationship vibes ... I have remained friendships with them. In that way, I have been very lucky.
The two examples I mentioned are extreme ... no doubt about it. But the point is, that a lot of these men are putting up these walls and sometimes I think if they could just hear it from the ladies ... step outside the box and really take a long look at things ... maybe it might dawn on them that they too are doing this.
Regarding your statement about just getting out and being friends ... I have a standing rule for dating ... "friends first, lovers later" and I stick to it. No man I go out with is going to have me all over him the first night ... and they already know my policy before we meet, so I've never had a problem with them stepping over the line either. Maybe that's why I do have much more relaxing dates. Those things are established before I ever get in my car to go meet them.
Greeneyedlady ... I wanted to email you but your filters won't allow it, so I'll address this to you here.
I recently lost my son, and I had
no one to turn to but you people, my friend's at POF. And I couldn't believe how many really nice, compassionate people are in the pond. They didn't know me, but they showed me that
there is a lot of wonderful men & woman in the pond. First let me offer you my condolences ... I know what you are feeling. I lost my own son back in Oct. 2005 ... he was only 22 years old and the baby of my four children. I too experienced the same compassionate response from my friends here on POF. When they heard about it, they just swooped in and embraced me and still have not let go ... they check up on me ... they comfort me ... I've never experienced anything like it in my life.
I'm a nurse ... I'm usually the one offering the comfort and all of a sudden, I was the one who needed it and they were there for me ... still are. And yes ... suffering a loss like that puts a whole new perspective on one's life. | |
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| Do you think Men & Women will ever Trust each other,enough to be friends?
Posted: 8/3/2006 9:44:44 PM | turkeymel wrote:
But Wes I never said you were a swamp thing - but there is something to be said for you finding a swamp woman - first of all studies have proven that mud wrestling is a great form of cardio vascular exercise and second of all mud is great for the skin so...as I see it you are in a win win situation.
Oh my... well wrestling in the mud is something that ... nope, I'm not gonna go there, just say it reminds me of college days - ever seen "Old School" ? hehehe | |
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| Do you think Men & Women will ever Trust each other,enough to be friends?
Posted: 8/4/2006 5:23:18 AM | I find that I am actually able to trust male friends much more than my female friends, especially if it is with a secret. For example. You tell a woman - supposedly your very best friend - "I gotta tell you something but you can't tell a single soul". She swears upon her oath. You spill your guts. Within an hour or two, invariably, your phone will ring and it will be someone saying "OMG..... I just heard from so-and-so that Susy said that Mary told her you blahblahblah!!!". I am not female bashing, but this has happened on more than one occasion. I even used it as a basis for an experiment in college. And the subjects did not actually have to be FRIENDS. Every single secret I gave a man stayed right there. Never once did I get it back, all mangled and distorted with each listener's perverse spin. [Remember that elementary school science project where the teacher put everyone in a circle and whispered something in the first person's ear, and by the time it got to the last person, it was nothing like what was originally said?]
I do have female friends whom I absolutely love. But all of my very closest lifelong friends are men. | |
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| Do you think Men & Women will ever Trust each other,enough to be friends?
Posted: 8/4/2006 5:27:23 AM |
I have a standing rule for dating ... "friends first, lovers later"
Excellent rule. A relationship based on friendship first will weather even the storm of a failed romance. Who knows you and understands you better than someone with whom you have explored every facet of a person that life has to offer? And in so doing, who remains a better friendship in the end? | |
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| Do you think Men & Women will ever Trust each other,enough to be friends?
Posted: 8/4/2006 6:20:45 AM | I have wrestled with this question and come to the conclusion that I don't know the answer!
The word, Trust...has many meanings....
# Firm reliance on the integrity, ability, or character of a person or thing.
# Custody; care.
# Something committed into the care of another; charge.
# One in which confidence is placed.
# Reliance on something in the future; hope.
There is a common thread here....trust is something that must be earned through repeated experience, and involves such things as honesty, integrity, personal limits, morals, & etc.
Yes, I think men and women can trust each other, but only after they take the time to know each other. All of us have been hurt, and have built in defenses in place to keep it from happening again...and Trust is a key element to tearing down the barriers and exposing youself to being hurt again.
A simple series of questions...
Would I trust this person:
to forsake all others?
to do what is best for the children?
to make the right decision if I was unable to do so for myself?
to remember to feed the dog?
to get the oil changed?
to do what they said they would do?
with my checkbook or credit cards?
to tell me if I am being an a$$?
to be completely honest about their feelings?
to keep their promise?
to tell me when I am wrong?
to cover my back?
The list is endless, and we each have our own experiences that would affect our own lists. Each question has its own level of importance but if the answer is yes to these types of questions, then we could I take off our armor and trust each other. | |
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| Do you think Men & Women will ever Trust each other,enough to be friends?
Posted: 8/4/2006 6:32:16 AM | I'd like to bring this topic back to greeneyedlady's original post for a minute.
For me, feelings of trust, vulnerabilty and intimacy are not instant. It's a risk. It takes time, courage and the willingness of two people to experience friendship & relationship.
It reminds me of a story I read once, about the proverbial monkey who has it's hand stuck in the cookie jar. It needs to let go of the cookie to get it's hand out of the jar.
But, at the same time, the monkey doesn't want to let go of the cookie.
This story caused me think about how I spend my time ( being alone, sitting in front of computor, sitting inside 4 walls, getting in a rut/ same day, different s**t)
Bottom line, I'm learning to let go & say no to a lot of cookies, in order to get my hand out of the jar.
Muskoka | |
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| Do you think Men & Women will ever Trust each other,enough to be friends?
Posted: 8/4/2006 6:36:17 AM | the simple answer is YES.
i am soooooo fortunate to have a couple of men in my world who i do trust.. without question .. they are Friends. they are Honest. they are Always There for me (as i am for them) ... Dr. Wayne Dyer says "Friends are 'gods' way of apologizing for your family" ..! .. I like what dr. dyer says! lol ..
people are individuals .. and while past hurts can often erect walls .. i do my very best not to judge the next person because of what the last one did (or didn't do) .. we (humans) all have the capacity for great things and for great b.s. !! .. i have a tendency to trust unless i am given a reason not to .. sorta like that "treat others the way i want to be treated" ... and i don't like people being suspicious of me (there is no reason) .. i am trustworthy so i am not suspicious of everyone i meet...
and i too have been 'burned' .. but not by the same person more than once! .. most of all i trust myself to take care of me, so its that other old expression "burn me once .. shame on you .. burn me twice .. shame on me.."
i prefer to live my life as FREE as possible .. free of fear and suspicion ... Free ...
and on that note .. i would like to say thanks to the men (and women), both in and out of the pond .. who make this trip so much easier ... Thanks!
Wanda | |
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| Do you think Men & Women will ever Trust each other,enough to be friends?
Posted: 8/4/2006 6:51:25 AM | Even tho I lived a lifetime (except for 3 years in the army) of abuse, I still trust; it is my nature
Most recently I trusted the 1st man I was falling in love with (after 31 years of abusive marriage), and taking a year to heal; I was ready ...
He was "falling in love" with me and (I thought) everything I ever wanted in a man....he disappeared,a nd when I confronted him about his cruelty...his comment? "I am a coward"
Pathetic for a 52 year old.
....and still I have an open heart....."Hope....springs eternal"
I won't give up on love; I will just keep giving it......sooner or later, it will be reciprocated (it better BE, or I will end up in the laugh academy, because of ahhhh.....mmmmmmm......physical problems!!!!)
LOL | |
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I'm not the "Swamp Thing" yet... **looks nervously around** 
