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 strangebloom
Joined: 6/30/2005
Msg: 1
I watched the Israeli / US Media videoPage 1 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)
Very interesting stuff. I am converting it to AVI so that I can share it with some friends. Its a lot of information and I am not entirely sure what to make of it. Also, I need to check references of the people that made the video in order to see it along side its makers political persuation. That will help me to keep things in perspective. Anyways it very provocative and gets you thinking.

So, thanks for the link, whichever of you gave me it. Here is the link for those that haven't seen it:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7828123714384920696
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 2
view profile
History
I watched the Israeli / US Media video
Posted: 8/7/2006 10:55:54 PM
You have opened your mind ... change is not easy. I give you a lot of credit for starting this thread ... for promoting the video ... it's a start ... it's the kind of start we need to hopefully find peace and to stop the killings.

Yes ... the killing has to stop ... on both sides.
 XRaySpecs™
Joined: 3/13/2005
Msg: 3
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History
I watched the Israeli / US Media video
Posted: 8/8/2006 1:27:38 AM
I saw the documentary twice this past weekend...once by myself on Saturday, and again with my parents on Sunday. I thought it was important enough that they should see it, and they were rather shaken up by it. I've also been telling other people to watch it as well. It's a real wake-up call for all of us.

I am very thankful for the internet (at least while it's still uncensored). I've known for some time now that western mainstream media hasn't been doing its job, and that the majority of people just accept what is shoved down their throats without second thought. At least through the internet, I have a chance to get other coverage of events and stories so that I can formulate more qualified opinions. For that...I am grateful.
 pansatyros
Joined: 3/24/2006
Msg: 4
I watched the Israeli / US Media video
Posted: 8/8/2006 5:28:39 PM
you know, at the risk of sounding very cliche, I have to say that little things like these provide aliens like me the necessary hope to continue colonizing your planet...errrr... studying the human race which is capable for the worst and the best...

...keep up the good fight!
 Always Smiling35
Joined: 7/1/2005
Msg: 5
I watched the Israeli / US Media video
Posted: 8/8/2006 5:41:47 PM
strangebloom;

That video made me completely change my view of the conflict.
It is hard to change core beliefs that have been indoctrined.
I know all about it, I created two threads previous to seeing that video practically yelling my support for Isreal and the USA, all the while making my-self look like a brainwashed tool, lol.

I cannot believe how much we have the wool pulled over our eyes on this matter.
And I do not buy that the Canadian government simply does not under-stand the conflict. I guess its possible, but highly unlikely. That tells me our PM is kissing Bush's ass and that is a big no-no in Canada. The fastest way for Harper to be shown the door is for people here to get that perception. (wether he actually is or not, and yes, GWB is hated that much here, even by our right wing)

Question is now, what do we do about it?
I have already emailed our current government with the link and my disgust at their position.
I doubt it will make a difference. But at least they know they have one red neck really pissed off.
A redneck with a vote.

Any-one else got any ideas?
I would start an online petition with a link to that video if I knew how to build a damn web page.
 late™
Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 6
I watched the Israeli / US Media video
Posted: 8/8/2006 6:44:30 PM

Any-one else got any ideas?


Do NOT place all of your eggs in one basket.

- realize that their are Israelis and Jews who object to the war, occupation, atrocities, and that their voices need to be heard to

- be informed, even to what the opposing view thinks, many hate war too, if you dismiss them? you're no different

- don't demonize or dehuminize the suffering of the Israeli people because of the actions of their government- instead, look to who is the enabler here, FOLLOW THE MONEY.

- don't believe things just because you agree with them, dig deeper

- recognize that Israel HAS a right to exist, THOUGH IT DOESN'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO COMMIT WAR CRIMES

- remember that this isn't the only "follow the money" ****-up, people in that region (and others), have been suffering horribly for almost a decade short of a century, and we've been footing the bill for it. The scope of suffering in that region is beyond description, ...and there are those making a lot of money off of it.

Making trillions of dollars off of war should be a crime of humanity.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 7
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History
I watched the Israeli / US Media video
Posted: 8/8/2006 6:50:37 PM
I have emailed the link to several of my personal friends who have these huge lists of people they send out messages to ...

The most any of us can do is just keep putting out the word ...

and

... "Always" ... the testimonials are a big help ... welcome to our club of open-minded people. I bet it feels good!



And "late™" makes an excellent point ... FOLLOW THE MONEY.

I have been on that bandwagon for some time here. I kept posting that we have to make note of where the money is coming from and who is getting it ... what their influence on all of this is.
 Always Smiling35
Joined: 7/1/2005
Msg: 8
I watched the Israeli / US Media video
Posted: 8/8/2006 7:17:18 PM

Do NOT place all of your eggs in one basket.

- realize that their are Israelis and Jews who object to the war, occupation, atrocities, and that their voices need to be heard to

- be informed, even to what the opposing view thinks, many hate war too, if you dismiss them? you're no different

- don't demonize or dehuminize the suffering of the Israeli people because of the actions of their government- instead, look to who is the enabler here, FOLLOW THE MONEY.

- don't believe things just because you agree with them, dig deeper

- recognize that Israel HAS a right to exist, THOUGH IT DOESN'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO COMMIT WAR CRIMES


Absolutely. I do not disagree with any of that.
I just want to figure out a way to send a strong message to our leadership in Canada that their stance on this matter is not popular, and wrong.
 late™
Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 9
I watched the Israeli / US Media video
Posted: 8/8/2006 7:34:46 PM
where the money is coming from


The middle class


and who is getting it


the corporate hegemony


... what their influence on all of this is.


The influence of the pseudo-aristocracy over the state, all political parties are complicit.
http://www.californiademocracy.org/persons1.html

Some objective Israeli journalists speaking out about the war, even Israel has a more balanced media than the US.

. Tom Segev is one of Israel's best historians and writers, and a man of the left. "Israel has adopted the moral values of Hezbollah," he wrote in the Israeli daily Ha'aretz August 3 after Israel bombed civilians in Qana. "Whatever they are doing to the residents of northern Israel, we can also do to the citizens of Lebanon, and even more. Many Israelis tended to look at the Qana incident primarily as a media disaster and not as something that imposed on them any ethical responsibility."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Segev

Gideon Levy is the former spokesman for Shimon Peres, now a writer for Ha'aretz

"Israel is sinking into a strident, nationalistic atmosphere and darkness is beginning to cover everything," he wrote July 30. He denounced "the insensitivity and blindness" of Israelis, the "tones of jingoism, ruthlessness and vengeance" that dominate public discourse. He reminded Israelis that Lebanon "has never fought Israel and has 40 daily newspapers, 42 colleges and universities," and that it "is being destroyed by our planes and cannon and nobody is taking into account the amount of hatred we are sowing."
http://www.zmag.org/meastwatch/gideon_levy.htm

Ze'ev Sternhell is Leon Blum Professor Emeritus of Political Science at Hebrew University. Israel today, he wrote in Ha'aretz July 28, "is dominated by thinking even more primitive than the thinking that led Ariel Sharon to Beirut about a quarter of a century ago." He explained that "it is impossible to uproot Hezbollah from among the Shiites without destroying the population itself...well-organized armies equipped with modern technology have always failed in attempts to defeat irregular forces. The latter know how to adapt themselves to their surroundings, they are an inseparable part of the population and they serve its material, religious and emotional needs."


Sternhell went further than other critics in linking Israel's war to the White House. George Bush, he wrote, "wants Israel both to destroy Lebanon and to sustain painful losses. That way, Israel provides him with an excellent alibi for the war in Iraq: The fight against terror is global, the blood price is the same, the methods of operation and the means are identical, and the time needed for victory is long." His conclusion: "The Israeli vassal is serving its master no less than the master is providing for its needs."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeev_Sternhe

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/745807.html

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/744061.html

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/743764.html

Anti Israel???

Far from it.
 FlyingDutchman*
Joined: 11/19/2005
Msg: 10
I watched the Israeli / US Media video
Posted: 8/8/2006 7:42:15 PM
I posted that video on another thread this past weekend and have notice that it is climbing the charts on Google top 100 since...

AWESOME!!

Send the link out to friends, family , co-workers etc..


The greatest weapon we have against Tyranny is Knowledge...
 arri
Joined: 10/5/2005
Msg: 11
I watched the Israeli / US Media video
Posted: 8/8/2006 8:10:32 PM
OP - I remember we were having discussions on a thread about Israel - Palestine issues ... i think you made a joke thread .. That was before the recent war and this video hadn't surface on the threads yet ... and we bumped heads .. rather I thought you were a bonehead I also thought that 35 was a bonehead ... even emailed cotter to say ..I have had enough of bumping heads with the boneheads and I am going back to the mainstream threads to flirt with the women ...

Then you surprised me when you replied to one of my posts saying ... thanks .. I am open minded and want to learn ...

glad you kept your mind open ... because an eye opening experience is great

Nobody likes to feel manipulated or snowed.
 Pablo_el_Diablo
Joined: 8/31/2005
Msg: 12
I watched the Israeli / US Media video
Posted: 8/8/2006 8:26:41 PM
Don't start the "Israel is a terrorist state" party just yet.

This vid was made by The Media Education Foundation. Check their web site and staff. After reading up on them a bit I believe these guys are no where near center and have little to no credibility at all.

http://www.mediaed.org/about

At the top of their list of advisors is Noam Chomsky.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky

Outside of academia, Chomsky is far more widely known for his political activism, and for his criticism of the foreign policy of the United States and other governments. Chomsky describes himself as a libertarian socialist and a sympathizer of anarcho-syndicalism (he is a member of the IWW). He is generally considered to be a key intellectual figure within the left wing of the United States politics. According to the Arts and Humanities Citation Index, between 1980 and 1992 Chomsky was cited as a source more often than any other living scholar, and the eighth most cited scholar overall.


I think they might be just a little bias. Just a little bit.

Also, while watching the vid I noticed a link to this lovely site in the top right hand corner besides the names of two people who apparently had something to do with putting the video on Google.

http://www.rys2sense.com/

At the top of the page you will see the logo "Stop the Bushit". At the bottom you will see "Anti-Neocon".

Inside the forum; http://www.rys2sense.com/anti-neocons/

You can discuss such unbiased topics as "The current events of the Zionists' warmongering in Lebanon", "News about Iran, and Syria the Neocons' next target.", and "Plame Affair and the AIPAC scandal. Taking the Neocons and Zionist down!”

Oh yes this is a much centered source for information.

Thanks but no thanks. I would rather get my news from Reuters. They might be doctoring photos, but at least their staff will tell me to my face they want my throat cut.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3256534,00.html


Yes the video showed alot of bad stuff, but that is what war is. That is what military occupation is. It is brutal and ugly and we all want it to stop. We just have different opinions on how to stop it and we are on different sides. Anyone can paste together clips of violence and quotes from people I have no reason to trust into a Google vid.

My grandmother is Jewish. I suppose that makes my view bias as well. I do know one fact that is not bias however. Israel will respond with nuclear force to any military action that causes heavy casualties in Israel. They have made that clear. I believe them.

I don't believe that is in anyones best interest no matter what side you are on. Land for peace doesn't work. Ceasefires only give the Hezbos (and/or other enemies) time to dig in and reload. These things just don't work.
 late™
Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 13
I watched the Israeli / US Media video
Posted: 8/8/2006 8:48:15 PM
This vid was made by The Media Education Foundation. Check their web site and staff. After reading up on them a bit I believe these guys are no where near center and have little to no credibility at all.

http://www.mediaed.org/about


Yes, DO read what these people are experts in - media



Also, while watching the vid I noticed a link to this lovely site in the top right hand corner besides the names of two people who apparently had something to do with putting the video on Google.


What the hell does this have to do WITH THE FILM itself?

(hint)

Absolutely Nothing



At the top of their list of advisors is Noam Chomsky.


Chomsky is probably the worlds top expert in communications, media, language, propaganda, kinda' appropriate to the subject matter, no?

BTW, he is Jewish, and from your own cite:


He considers himself a Zionist in the traditional sense, previously supported a one-state solution to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict but now supports a two state solution.


Again, where is Chomsky's expertese?

COMMUNICATION


between 1980 and 1992 Chomsky was cited as a source more often than any other living scholar, and the eighth most cited source overall.

In the spring of 1969 he delivered the John Locke Lectures at Oxford University; in January 1970 he delivered the Bertrand Russell Memorial Lecture at Cambridge University; in 1972, the Nehru Memorial Lecture in New Delhi, in 1977, the Huizinga Lecture in Leiden, in 1997, The Davie Memorial Lecture on Academic Freedom in Cape Town, among many others.

Noam Chomsky has received many honorary degrees from the most prestigious universities around the world, including the following: University of London, University of Chicago, Loyola University of Chicago, Swarthmore College, Delhi University, Bard College, University of Massachusetts, University of Pennsylvania, Georgetown University, Amherst College, Cambridge University, University of Buenos Aires, McGill University, Universitat Rovira I Virgili, Tarragona, Columbia University, University of Connecticut, Scuola Normale Superiore, Pisa, University of Western Ontario, University of Toronto, Harvard University, University of Calcutta, Universidad Nacional De Colombia, and Vrije Universiteit Brussel. He is a Fellow of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences and the National Academy of Science. In addition, he is a member of other professional and learned societies in the United States and abroad, and is a recipient of the Distinguished Scientific Contribution Award of the American Psychological Association, the Kyoto Prize in Basic Sciences, the Helmholtz Medal, the Dorothy Eldridge Peacemaker Award, the Ben Franklin Medal in Computer and Cognitive Science, and others. He is twice winner of The Orwell Award, granted by The National Council of Teachers of English for "Distinguished Contributions to Honesty and Clarity in Public Language". Early in his career Chomsky was granted the prestigious McArthur Award.

Chomsky was voted the leading living public intellectual in The 2005 Global Intellectuals Poll conducted by the British magazine Prospect. He reacted coolly, saying "I don't pay a lot of attention to polls" . In a list compiled by the magazine New Statesman in 2006, he was voted seventh in the list of "Heroes of our time"


No credibility?

Riiiiiiiiiiight.


My grandmother is Jewish. I suppose that makes my view bias as well.


There are Israelis who would agree, and in fact corroborate what is said in the film.

In fact, the film has in it, Israeli Rabbis, Citizens and even a Israeli Defence Force Major?

No credibility?

M'kay.........

There's probably more balance in the reportage of some Israeli newspapers than there is in all the US networks combined.

And BTW, do yourself a favour and go to CAMERA's site, they're the propagandists this movie is about.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 14
view profile
History
I watched the Israeli / US Media video
Posted: 8/8/2006 9:01:31 PM

Yes the video showed alot of bad stuff, but that is what war is. That is what military occupation is. It is brutal and ugly and we all want it to stop. We just have different opinions on how to stop it and we are on different sides. Anyone can paste together clips of violence and quotes from people I have no reason to trust into a Google vid.
I'm sorry to see that you got so caught up in your ideas that you lost the point of the video ...

... OUR NEWS IS BEING FILTERED ... WE'RE ONLY BEING SHOWN ONE SIDE OF THE STORY!!!!!! And that is biased. I know little about "Reuters" ... but if it's not showing you what you saw in the video ... you're not getting both sides of the story.

Additionally it doesn't nullify the fact that there are over 150 UN Resolutions that the Israeli's are not complying with related to the Lebanese people.

OPEN YOUR MIND ... Let your religious beliefs be what they may be, but see the fact that Israel is occupying land for one reason, and one reason only ... to take total possession of it ... to commit genocide on the people who are really supposed to be there.

Dig deeper ... FOLLOW THE MONEY ... find out why this is happening and who we should hold accountable.
 rks58
Joined: 1/28/2006
Msg: 15
I watched the Israeli / US Media video
Posted: 8/8/2006 9:30:40 PM
Pablo, Pablo, Pablo...I had come at one point to expect more rational thought from you than that.

Look at your own quote (or at least this part of it)

between 1980 and 1992 Chomsky was cited as a source more often than any other living scholar, and the eighth most cited scholar overall.

How many scholars do you think there are in the world? 100 thousand? 1 million? more?

What does it say to you that a man like Chomsky would rise to the point of being "more often cited than ANY OTHER living scholar"?

What does it mean to you that he would be ranked 8th overall (that means over the course of modern history, at least in this last century)?

Somehow you take that to mean that he MUST be biased (you are assuming that all other scholars are "leftists" too, I mean, it takes a lot of citations to reach those levels. There are a lot who would sell their own children for that kind of recognition).

Where is your opinion on the Israelis in that film? Like the Rabbis and IDF members and all the IDF members who have refused to serve in the occupied territories?

More important: How do the opinions of those who live there, on the ground, and see it every day stack up to what you see on the news in the US?

Yes, occupation is hell, especially for those who are occupied. How would you respond? Like a Quisling, a collaborator and just roll over or would you fight back? If you were Palestinian that might be your best choice because the Israeli gov't is going to do every thing it can to make sure nobody outside knows your suffering and only sees theirs.
 redfishbluefish
Joined: 12/22/2005
Msg: 16
I watched the Israeli / US Media video
Posted: 8/8/2006 10:17:09 PM
Anybody who might be familiar with the term strawman would certainly be interested in this film's slick production.

Anyone who doesn't know what a strawman is will be sucked in by it.
 arri
Joined: 10/5/2005
Msg: 17
I watched the Israeli / US Media video
Posted: 8/8/2006 10:19:54 PM
^^^ and some of us knew all that shit way before we saw the video
 redfishbluefish
Joined: 12/22/2005
Msg: 18
I watched the Israeli / US Media video
Posted: 8/8/2006 10:27:13 PM
So arri, I'm taking it that you were sucked in by the film's glaring lack of context, disinformation, lack of balance, lack of documentation to back up assertations, and general omission of facts, as well as it's building up of a straw man before effectively knocking it down?
 late™
Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 19
I watched the Israeli / US Media video
Posted: 8/8/2006 10:57:53 PM
Are you saying CAMERA does not exist?

Hmmmm... they'd be surprised to here this.

So would AIPAC....

Please, prove the strawman.

The fact is, there's more balance on the the reporting in Israel than there is in the west.

Is this also suspect?

http://www.gla.ac.uk/departments/sociology/units/media/israel.htm

I get it, are media experts biased about media abuse because they're media experts?

Compare sources from Israel and Europe to the way the news from the region is depicted in the US, and to a lesser extent Canada, does the phrase "played like a cheap flute" ring any bells?

Go to any part of the world that isn't a source of financial aid to the military in Israel, and compare.

This isn't just about media coverage, it's about the huge military aid $ that have been funnelled into Israel in the form of weapons, the actual MONEY is in the pockets of the military industrial complex, it comes from the pockets of the American taxpayers.

And the media is complicit in its silence.

The same scam keeps Saudi Arabia and it's neigbours, in good standings in the US, where the value of the alliance between the US and SA isn't just oil, it's the value of being a source of revenue for US corporate interests.

Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates - make up the core of the Middle East defence market, with just under 40 percent of the world’s total weapons sales during the 1990s.

The US is making a LOT of money off of it's tax payers, and arming the region at the same time.

IT'S INSANE!

Follow the money, it takes a convoluted trip around the world, but it always ends up at the root of the problem.
 rks58
Joined: 1/28/2006
Msg: 20
I watched the Israeli / US Media video
Posted: 8/8/2006 11:02:07 PM

Anybody who might be familiar with the term strawman would certainly be interested in this film's slick production.

Anyone who doesn't know what a strawman is will be sucked in by it.

So, are you saying that overwhelming media support of Israel and virtually non-existant reporting from the Palestinian perspective in US (the primary target group of the video) does not actually exist?

I'm not sure where exactly you would draw that conclusion from.

The language of the media in the US is overwhelmingly supportive of Israel. Israel is overwhelmingly referred to in emotionally positive ways, in ways that are known to draw the support and sympathy of Americans.

The presentation of images from the middle east are overwhelmingly oriented to the Israeli position.

The language of the media in regard to the Palestinians is overwhelmingly negative. Palestinians are overwhelmingly referred to in ways that are known to elicit anger and negative attitudes among the American population.

The US media consistently portrays the dichotomy of Israel=white hats/good guys and Palestinians=black hats/bad guys. The US media consistently ignores or avoids presenting any images of Israeli troop engaged in actions or the results of Israeli actions that make them look like they might be just as bad.

The US media does not hesitate to show horrific images of dead children or empty strollers if they are Israeli but will not show images of Palestinian children shot by the IDF. You will definitely see the images of Israeli children blown apart by a Palestinian bomb but you will never see the image of a Palestinian child missing half of his head because of the bullet from an IDF m-16.

The argument only becomes a strawman if you assume that the IDF rarely shoots Palestinian children and rarely does the things the video purports to show.

Such an assumption would be the height of ignorance, particularly given that the images and stories the US media refuses to exhibit can be easily accessed through domestic Israeli media (and please, spare the rhetoric of how the Israeli media that do present them are run by Palestinian apologists or "left-wing surrender monkeys" if that is the only rebuttal that can be provided).

I, personally, do not accept either view as the total, unadulterated truth but the truth IS somewhere in the middle and that means, however you look at it, that neither side is "righteous" and "evil" is "evil" no matter who commits it.
 jjl9067
Joined: 7/4/2006
Msg: 21
view profile
History
I watched the Israeli / US Media video
Posted: 8/8/2006 11:02:08 PM
I haven't watched it yet, but I will as soon as it finishes downloading.

Here is also the URL of a rebuttal to the video, which I haven't read yet (since I haven't watched the video yet) but that I marked for me to read later. I'm sure there are more rebuttals, and more confirmations, out there as well I just stumbled across this one and thought I should share the link so that people on this thread have something to compare against.

http://www.jcrc.org/israel/p3l/P3L-Review.pdf

I'll draw my conclusions and respond to both after I get some time to go through them.
 late™
Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 22
I watched the Israeli / US Media video
Posted: 8/8/2006 11:18:51 PM
Here is the page where the rebuttal is:

http://www.jcrc.org/israel/

Do note that they are part of JPAC, which in turn is affiliated with:

AIPAC

Scores of private American organizations, both Christian and Jewish, reiterate the official line and organize grassroots opposition to any coverage deemed unfavorable to Israel. The most important of these is AIPAC, the American Israeli Public Affairs Committee, widely regarded as the most powerful foreign lobby in Washington. This institutional framework of American business and political interests in combination with Israeli public relations shapes media coverage of the Middle East.

From - Peace, Propaganda, and the Promised Land

http://www.aipac.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIPAC

A little more about AIPAC
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/AIPACClinton.html

Google AIPAC for more.

This is another one of the organizations that the film is about.


Finally, if any news stories critical of Israeli policy do surface, there are a host of media watchdog groups that monitor and pressure journalists and media outlets, the most important of which is CAMERA.

From - Peace, Propaganda, and the Promised Land


http://www.camera.org/

BTW, the director of the supposed Anti Israeli film (Peace, Propaganda, and the Promised Land), Bathsheba Ratzkoff, is a Jewish Israeli-American.

Speaking of Anti Occupation Jews who aren't Anti Israel, here's another valuble resource based in Israel:

http://www.btselem.org/English/index.asp

B'TSELEM - The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories was established in 1989 by a group of prominent academics, attorneys, journalists, and Knesset members. It endeavors to document and educate the Israeli public and policymakers about human rights violations in the Occupied Territories, combat the phenomenon of denial prevalent among the Israeli public, and help create a human rights culture in Israel.

As I keep saying, there is more journalistic balance on the issue in Israel than in the US.

Have any of you seen B'TSELEM on Fox?
 rks58
Joined: 1/28/2006
Msg: 23
I watched the Israeli / US Media video
Posted: 8/9/2006 12:08:58 AM
Here is also the URL of a rebuttal to the video, which I haven't read yet (since I haven't watched the video yet) but that I marked for me to read later. I'm sure there are more rebuttals, and more confirmations, out there as well I just stumbled across this one and thought I should share the link so that people on this thread have something to compare against.

http://www.jcrc.org/israel/p3l/P3L-Review.pdf


I have read the article referred to and I find the most telling point comes very early.


The scope of this review and analysis is not to refute every claim made by the film, as that would require a more extensive assessment. Nor is it the scope of this paper to provide a comprehensive analysis of the media’s coverage of the conflict between Israelis and Palestinians. Rather, this paper will review the major points made by the film, expose the film’s own propaganda methodology to demonstrate that this production is a sophisticated, well-crafted piece of political propaganda serving one perspective on one side of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Finally, this paper advocates for a balanced and accurate presentation of the subject when aired on public television based on the concept of “truth in packaging.”


The review clearly states that they have no intention of disproving many of the core elements of the video but merely to show that "they are just as bad as those they complain about".

In short, "We're not saying they're wrong but..."

In the few areas where they do attempt to refute the claims of the video they resort to the same level of obfuscation and distortion that both the video claims for the US/Israeli relationship and that they claim exists in this video.

As an example: They try to refute the claim that Israel is not in violation of UNSC 242 passed in 1967 by appealing to the few areas where Israel has complied (eg the Sinai after the Israeli/Egypt peace agreement in 1979, 12 years after the resolution and Gaza in 2005, 38 years after the resolution) while completely ignoring the other areas where Israel has refused to comply and further strengthened its grip (West Bank which has only been partially returned as well as the Golan and East Jerusalem which have had no part returned).

Another example (of an omission): The review states that the video "neglects to mention the continuous incitement against Israelis and Jews in the Palestinian media, mosques, schools, and street demonstrations." as if words and protests are justification for armed suppression.

Another example: The article accuses the video producers of setting up a "strawman" argument by stating "that Israel and its supporters routinely accuse critics of Israeli policies as being “anti-Semitic.” when in fact the video is fairly specific about the groups (Israeli gov't and specific media watch groups) which do this, a "strawman" in its' own right. The review goes on to say the video "offers no evidence to back up" the claim while they offer no proof of the counter claim. They state that "American Jewish organizations treat the charging of a group or individual with anti-Semitism with extreme caution, while considering criticism of Israeli policies to be fair comment in the open market place of ideas." but later follow this up with the qualifier that "it fails to understand that using anti-Semitic rhetoric, as some do, to criticize Israel is also a form of anti-Semitism.
Instead the film chose a patronizing, even threatening, tone when Robert Fisk tried to focus the blame for the resurgence of anti-Semitism on Israel and its supporters.". In other words they don't accuse people of anti-semitism for criticizing the Israeli gov't but criticizing the Israeli gov't could be anti-semitism if they disagree with the criticism.

I'm sorry, but reviewing an video for showing the same bias it purports to expose by using the exposed bias as the primary basis for your criticism isn't convincing. The whole basis for the review is "the kettle calling the pot black for calling the kettle black".
 late™
Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 24
I watched the Israeli / US Media video
Posted: 8/9/2006 12:34:55 AM
"the kettle calling the pot black for calling the kettle black"


I just finished the review, ....yup.

The old "tu quoque" ploy, kinda' negates any accusations of fallacy in a big way.

In fact, in a way, that film barely scratches the surface, though it does make one want to did deeper.

I wonder if you've had a chance to see this?


AIPAC's Overt and Covert Ops
by Juan Cole

CBS is reporting that a Defense Intelligence Agency analyst detailed to Undersecretary of Defense for Planning Douglas Feith's Office of Special Plans is under FBI investigation for spying for Israel. The person passed to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) confidential documents, including those detailing Bush administration policy toward Iran, and AIPAC then passed them to Israel. There are wiretaps and photographs backing up the FBI case (the FBI agents involved are extremely brave to take this on).

But this espionage case is too narrow. Consider what journalist Jim Lobe wrote about Feith's Office of Special Plans (OSP) and the Pentagon Near East and South Asia (NESA) office:

"[K]ey personnel who worked in both NESA and OSP were part of a broader network of neoconservative ideologues and activists who worked with other Bush political appointees scattered around the national-security bureaucracy to move the country to war, according to retired Lt. Col. Karen Kwiatkowski, who was assigned to NESA from May 2002 through February 2003. The heads of NESA and OSP were Deputy Undersecretary William Luti and Abram Shulsky, respectively. Other appointees who worked with them in both offices included Michael Rubin, a Middle East specialist previously with the neoconservative American Enterprise Institute (AEI); David Schenker, previously with the Washington Institute for Near East Policy (WINEP); and Michael Makovsky; an expert on neocon icon Winston Churchill and the younger brother of David Makovsky, a senior WINEP fellow and former executive editor of pro-Likud Jerusalem Post. Along with Feith, all of the political appointees have in common a close identification with the views of the right-wing Likud Party in Israel."

Karen Kwiatkowski was an eyewitness in NESA, and Lobe reports:

"[S]he recounts one incident in which she helped escort a group of half a dozen Israelis, including several generals, from the first floor reception area to Feith's office. 'We just followed them, because they knew exactly where they were going and moving fast.' When the group arrived, she noted the book which all visitors are required to sign under special regulations that took effect after the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks. 'I asked his secretary, "Do you want these guys to sign in?" She said, "No, these guys don't have to sign in."' It occurred to her, she said, that the office may have deliberately not wanted to maintain a record of the meeting."

The American Israel Public Affairs Committee is a lobbying group that used to support whatever government was in power in Israel, and used to give money evenhandedly inside the U.S. My perception is that during the past decade AIPAC has increasingly tilted to the Likud in Israel, and to the political Right in the United States. In the 1980s, AIPAC set up the Washington Institute for Near East Policy as a pro-Israeli alternative to the Brookings Institution, which it perceived to be insufficiently supportive of Israel. WINEP has largely followed AIPAC into pro-Likud positions, even though its director, Dennis Ross, is more moderate. He is a figurehead, however, serving to disguise the far right character of most of the position papers produced by long-term WINEP staff and by extremist visitors and "associates" (Daniel Pipes and Martin Kramer are among the latter).

WINEP, being a wing of AIPAC, is enormously influential in Washington. State Department and military personnel are actually detailed there to "learn" about "the Middle East"! They would get a far more balanced "education" about the region in any Israeli university, since most Israeli academics are professionals, whereas WINEP is a "think tank" that hires by ideology.

I did some consulting with one U.S. company that had a government contract, and they asked me about WINEP position papers (many of them are just propaganda). When I said I would take them with a grain of salt, the guy said his company had "received direction" to pay a lot of attention to the WINEP material! So discipline is being imposed even on the private sector.

Note that over 80% of American Jews vote Democrat, that the majority of American Jews opposed the Iraq war (more were against it than in the general population), and that American Jews have been enormously important in securing civil liberties for all Americans. Moreover, Israel has been a faithful ally of the U.S. and deserves our support in ensuring its security. The Likudniks like to pretend that they represent American Jewry, but they do not. And they like to suggest that objecting to their policies is tantamount to anti-Semitism, which is sort of like suggesting that if you don't like Chile's former dictator Pinochet, you are bigoted against Latinos.

As can be seen by Lobe's list, WINEP supplies right-wing intellectuals to Republican administrations, who employ their positions to support Likud policies from within the U.S. government. They have the advantage over longtime civil servants in units like the State Department's Intelligence and Research division, insofar as they are politically connected and so have the ear of the top officials.

So, passing a few confidential documents over is a minor affair. Pro-Likud intellectuals established networks linking Defense and the national security advisers of Vice President****Cheney, gaining enormous influence over policy by cherry-picking and distorting intelligence to make a case for war on Saddam Hussein. And their ulterior motive was to remove the most powerful Arab military from the scene, not because it was an active threat to Israel (it wasn't) but because it was a possible deterrent to Likud plans for aggressive expansion (at the least, they want half of the West Bank, permanently).

It should be admitted that the American Likud could not make U.S. policy on its own. Its members had to make convincing arguments to Rumsfeld, Cheney and Bush himself. But they were able to make those arguments, by distorting intelligence, channeling Ahmed Chalabi junk, and presenting Big Ideas to men above them that signally lacked such ideas. (Like the idea that the road to peace in Jerusalem ran through Baghdad. Ha!)

It was these WINEP and AIPAC-linked U.S. Likud backers in the Defense Department who had the Iraqi army dissolved as soon as Saddam was overthrown. This step threw Iraq into chaos and led to the deaths of nearly a thousand U.S. servicemen so far, since an Iraq without an army would inevitably depend on the U.S. military. But with the Iraqi army gone, and with Egypt and Jordan neutralized, Syria was left the only country anywhere near Israel that could make active trouble for Sharon if he completely screwed over the Palestinians. And Syria was now weak and isolated. So Sharon has had a free hand in his expansionist aggression. And, because the U.S. public has been preoccupied with Iraq, the Likud could pursue its annexation of West Bank land and its expropriation of even more Palestinians without anyone over here even noticing. It is the best of all possible worlds for the heirs of Ze'ev Jabotinsky.

The Likud policies of reversing Oslo and stealing people's land and making their lives hell has produced enormous amounts of terrorism against Israel, and the Likudniks have cleverly turned that to their political advantage. Aggression and annexation is necessary, they argue, because there is terrorism. Some of them now openly speak of ethnically cleansing the Palestinians, using the same argument. But when the Oslo peace process looked like it would go somewhere, terrorism tapered off (it did not end, but then peace had not been achieved).

The drawback for the U.S. in all this is that U.S. government backing for Sharon's odious policies makes it hated in the Muslim world. (Note that Muslims who oppose Israeli aggression are often tagged as "terrorists" by the U.S. government, but right-wing Jews who go to Palestine to colonize it, walking around with Uzi machine guns and sometimes shooting down civilians, are not "terrorists.") This lack of balance is one big reason that bin Laden and al-Zawahiri hit the U.S. on Sept. 11. In fact, bin Laden wanted to move up the operation to punish the U.S. for supporting Sharon's crackdown on the second Intifada.

Likud apologists have carefully planted the false story that al-Qaeda did not care about Palestine, but that is absurd. Bin Laden always complained about the occupation of the three holy cities (Mecca, Medina and Jerusalem, the first two because of U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia, and the third under Israeli occupation). When bin Laden came back from Afghanistan to Jidda in 1989, his first sermon at the local mosque was about the Israeli repression of Palestinians during the first Intifada.

Now the U.S.' occupation of Iraq is making it even more hated in the Muslim world. It is a policy hatched in part by AIPAC, WINEP, and their associated "thinkers." The cynical might suggest that they actively want the U.S. involved in a violent struggle with Muslims, to make sure that the U.S. remains anti-Palestinian and so will permit Israeli expansion.

All this can happen because there is a vacuum in U.S. political discourse. A handful of special interests in the United States virtually dictate congressional policy on some issues. With regard to the Arab-Israeli conflict, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee and a few allies have succeeded in imposing complete censorship on both houses of Congress. No senator or representative dares make a speech on the floor of his or her institution critical of Israeli policy, even though the Israeli government often violates international law and UN Security Council resolutions (it would violate more such resolutions, except that the resolutions never got passed because only one NSC member, the U.S., routinely vetoes them on behalf of Tel Aviv.) As the Labor Party in Israel has been eclipsed by the Likud coalition, which includes many proto-fascist groups, this subservience has yoked Washington to foreign politicians who privately favor ethnic cleansing and/or aggressive warfare for the purpose of annexing the territory of neighbors.

On the rare occasion when a brave member of Congress dares stand up to this unrelenting AIPAC tyranny, that person is targeted for unelection in the next congressional campaign, with big money directed by AIPAC and/or its analogues into the coffers of the senator's or congressman's opponent. Over and over again, AIPAC has shaped the U.S. Congress in this way, so successfully that no one even dares speak out any more.

AIPAC is not all that rich or powerful, but politics in the U.S. is often evenly divided between Democrats and Republicans. Because many races are very close, any little extra support can help change the outcome. AIPAC can provide that little bit. Moreover, most Americans couldn't care less about the Middle East or its intractable problems, whereas the staffers at AIPAC are fanatics. If some congressman from southern Indiana knows he can pick up even a few thousand dollars and some good will from AIPAC, he may as well, since his constituents don't care anyway. That there is no countervailing force to AIPAC allows it to be effective. (That is one reason that pro-Likud American activists often express concern about the rise of the Muslim-American community and the possibility that it may develop an effective lobby.) Moreover, AIPAC leverages its power by an alliance with the Christian Right, which has adopted a bizarre ideology of "Christian Zionism." It holds that the sooner the Palestinians are ethnically cleansed, the sooner Christ will come back. Without millions of these Christian Zionist allies, AIPAC would be much less influential and effective.

The Founding Fathers of the United States deeply feared that a foreign government might gain this level of control over a branch of the United States government, and their fears have been vindicated.

The situation has reached comedic proportions. Congress is always drafting letters to the president, based on AIPAC templates, demanding that lopsided U.S. policy in favor of Israel be revised to be even more in favor of Israel. U.S. policy recently changed to endorse the expansion of Israeli colonies in Palestinian, West Bank territory.

Where Israel is in the right, this situation obviously is innocuous. The United States should protect Israel from aggressive attack, if necessary. United Nations members are pledged to collective security, i.e., to protecting any member nation from aggression at the hands of another. But given that Israel is a nuclear power with a vast a***nal of weapons of mass destruction; given that Egypt and Jordan have long-lived peace treaties with Israel; and given that Syria and Lebanon are small, weak powers, there is not in fact any serious military threat to Israel in its immediate neighborhood. In contrast, Israel launched wars against neighbors in 1956, 1967, and 1982 (all of which it won so easily as to bring into question the necessity for the wars in the first place if they were defensive), and has since 1967 been assiduously colonizing Palestinian land that it militarily occupied – all the while attempting to avoid becoming responsible for the Palestinian populations on that land. This latter policy has poisoned the entire world.

AIPAC currently has a project to shut up academics such as myself, the same way it has shut up Congress, through congressional legislation mandating "balance" (i.e., pro-Likud stances) in Middle East programs at American universities. How long the U.S. public will allow itself to be spied on and pushed around like this is a big question. And, with the rise of international terrorism targeting the U.S. in part over these issues, the fate of the country hangs in the balance.


Clearly, the whole mess in Palestine is very "Un-Jewish" of Israel, and more in line with the neoconservative right-wing extremists in the US.

Curiouser and curiouser....
 rks58
Joined: 1/28/2006
Msg: 25
I watched the Israeli / US Media video
Posted: 8/9/2006 1:34:22 AM

Curiouser and curiouser....


More so than you may know...

Try this transcript


Part 1 of 4

BRIT HUME, HOST: It has been more than 16 years since a civilian working for the Navy was charged with passing secrets to Israel. Jonathan Pollard pled guilty to conspiracy to commit espionage and is serving a life sentence. At first, Israeli leaders claimed Pollard was part of a rogue operation, but later took responsibility for his work.

Now Fox News has learned some U.S. investigators believe that there are Israelis again very much engaged in spying in and on the U.S., who may have known things they didn't tell us before September 11. Fox News correspondent Carl Cameron has details in the first of a four-part series.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CARL CAMERON, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Since September 11, more than 60 Israelis have been arrested or detained, either under the new patriot anti-terrorism law, or for immigration violations. A handful of active Israeli military were among those detained, according to investigators, who say some of the detainees also failed polygraph questions when asked about alleged surveillance activities against and in the United States.

There is no indication that the Israelis were involved in the 9-11 attacks, but investigators suspect that they Israelis may have gathered intelligence about the attacks in advance, and not shared it. A highly placed investigator said there are "tie-ins." But when asked for details, he flatly refused to describe them, saying, "evidence linking these Israelis to 9-11 is classified. I cannot tell you about evidence that has been gathered. It's classified information."

Fox News has learned that one group of Israelis, spotted in North Carolina recently, is suspected of keeping an apartment in California to spy on a group of Arabs who the United States is also investigating for links to terrorism. Numerous classified documents obtained by Fox News indicate that even prior to September 11, as many as 140 other Israelis had been detained or arrested in a secretive and sprawling investigation into suspected espionage by Israelis in the United States.

Investigators from numerous government agencies are part of a working group that's been compiling evidence since the mid '90s. These documents detail hundreds of incidents in cities and towns across the country that investigators say, "may well be an organized intelligence gathering activity."

The first part of the investigation focuses on Israelis who say they are art students from the University of Jerusalem and Bazala Academy. They repeatedly made contact with U.S. government personnel, the report says, by saying they wanted to sell cheap art or handiwork.

Documents say they, "targeted and penetrated military bases." The DEA, FBI and dozens of government facilities, and even secret offices and unlisted private homes of law enforcement and intelligence personnel. The majority of those questioned, "stated they served in military intelligence, electronic surveillance intercept and or explosive ordinance units."

Another part of the investigation has resulted in the detention and arrests of dozens of Israelis at American mall kiosks, where they've been selling toys called Puzzle Car and Zoom Copter. Investigators suspect a front.

Shortly after The New York Times and Washington Post reported the Israeli detentions last months, the carts began vanishing. Zoom Copter's Web page says, "We are aware of the situation caused by thousands of mall carts being closed at the last minute. This in no way reflects the quality of the toy or its salability. The problem lies in the operators' business policies."

Why would Israelis spy in and on the U.S.? A general accounting office investigation referred to Israel as country A and said, "According to a U.S. intelligence agency, the government of country A conducts the most aggressive espionage operations against the U.S. of any U.S. ally."

A defense intelligence report said Israel has a voracious appetite for information and said, "the Israelis are motivated by strong survival instincts which dictate every possible facet of their political and economical policies. It aggressively collects military and industrial technology and the U.S. is a high priority target."

The document concludes: "Israel possesses the resources and technical capability to achieve its collection objectives."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

A spokesman for the Israeli embassy here in Washington issued a denial saying that any suggestion that Israelis are spying in or on the U.S. is "simply not true." There are other things to consider. And in the days ahead, we'll take a look at the U.S. phone system and law enforcement's methods for wiretaps. And an investigation that both have been compromised by our friends overseas.

HUME: Carl, what about this question of advanced knowledge of what was going to happen on 9-11? How clear are investigators that some Israeli agents may have known something?

CAMERON: It's very explosive information, obviously, and there's a great deal of evidence that they say they have collected — none of it necessarily conclusive. It's more when they put it all together. A bigger question, they say, is how could they not have know? Almost a direct quote.

HUME: Going into the fact that they were spying on some Arabs, right?

CAMERON: Correct.

HUME: All right, Carl, thanks very much

60 Israelis who had been detained in connection with the Sept. 11 terrorism investigation.

Carl Cameron Investigates Part 2

Part 2 of 4

BRIT HUME, HOST: Last time we reported on the approximately 60 Israelis who had been detained in connection with the Sept. 11 terrorism investigation. Carl Cameron reported that U.S. investigators suspect that some of these Israelis were spying on Arabs in this country, and may have turned up information on the planned terrorist attacks back in September that was not passed on.

Tonight, in the second of four reports on spying by Israelis in the U.S., we learn about an Israeli-based private communications company, for whom a half-dozen of those 60 detained suspects worked. American investigators fear information generated by this firm may have fallen into the wrong hands and had the effect of impeded the Sept. 11 terror inquiry. Here's Carl Cameron's second report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CARL CAMERON, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Fox News has learned that some American terrorist investigators fear certain suspects in the Sept. 11 attacks may have managed to stay ahead of them, by knowing who and when investigators are calling on the telephone. How?

By obtaining and analyzing data that's generated every time someone in the U.S. makes a call.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What city and state, please?

CAMERON: Here's how the system works. Most directory assistance calls, and virtually all call records and billing in the U.S. are done for the phone companies by Amdocs Ltd., an Israeli-based private elecommunications company.

Amdocs has contracts with the 25 biggest phone companies in America, and more worldwide. The White House and other secure government phone lines are protected, but it is virtually impossible to make a call on normal phones without generating an Amdocs record of it.

In recent years, the FBI and other government agencies have investigated Amdocs more than once. The firm has repeatedly and adamantly denied any security breaches or wrongdoing. But sources tell Fox News that in 1999, the super secret national security agency, headquartered in northern Maryland, issued what's called a Top Secret sensitive compartmentalized information report, TS/SCI, warning that records of calls in the United States were getting into foreign hands – in Israel, in particular.

Investigators don't believe calls are being listened to, but the data about who is calling whom and when is plenty valuable in itself. An internal Amdocs memo to senior company executives suggests just how Amdocs generated call records could be used. “Widespread data mining techniques and algorithms.... combining both the properties of the customer (e.g., credit rating) and properties of the specific ‘behavior….’” Specific behavior, such as who the customers are calling.

The Amdocs memo says the system should be used to prevent phone fraud. But U.S. counterintelligence analysts say it could also be used to spy through the phone system. Fox News has learned that the N.S.A has held numerous classified conferences to warn the F.B.I. and C.I.A. how Amdocs records could be used. At one NSA briefing, a diagram by the Argon national lab was used to show that if the phone records are not secure, major security breaches are possible.

Another briefing document said, "It has become increasingly apparent that systems and networks are vulnerable.…Such crimes always involve unauthorized persons, or persons who exceed their authorization...citing on exploitable vulnerabilities."

Those vulnerabilities are growing, because according to another briefing, the U.S. relies too much on foreign companies like Amdocs for high-tech equipment and software. "Many factors have led to increased dependence on code developed overseas.... We buy rather than train or develop solutions."

U.S. intelligence does not believe the Israeli government is involved in a misuse of information, and Amdocs insists that its data is secure. What U.S. government officials are worried about, however, is the possibility that Amdocs data could get into the wrong hands, particularly organized crime. And that would not be the first thing that such a thing has happened. Fox News has documents of a 1997 drug trafficking case in Los Angeles, in which telephone information, the type that Amdocs collects, was used to "completely compromise the communications of the FBI, the Secret Service, the DEO and the LAPD."

We'll have that and a lot more in the days ahead – Brit.

HUME: Carl, I want to take you back to your report last night on those 60 Israelis who were detained in the anti-terror investigation, and the suspicion that some investigators have that they may have picked up information on the 9/11 attacks ahead of time and not passed it on.

There was a report, you'll recall, that the Mossad, the Israeli intelligence agency, did indeed send representatives to the U.S. to warn, just before 9/11, that a major terrorist attack was imminent. How does that leave room for the lack of a warning?

CAMERON: I remember the report, Brit. We did it first internationally right here on your show on the 14th. What investigators are saying is that that warning from the Mossad was nonspecific and general, and they believe that it may have had something to do with the desire to protect what are called sources and methods in the intelligence community. The suspicion being, perhaps those sources and methods were taking place right here in the United States.

The question came up in select intelligence committee on Capitol Hill today. They intend to look into what we reported last night, and specifically that possibility – Brit.

HUME: So in other words, the problem wasn't lack of a warning, the problem was lack of useful details?

CAMERON: Quantity of information.

HUME: All right, Carl, thank you very much.

Part 3 of 4

BRIT HUME, HOST: Last time we reported on an Israeli-based company called Amdocs Ltd. that generates the computerized records and billing data for nearly every phone call made in America. As Carl Cameron reported, U.S. investigators digging into the 9/11 terrorist attacks fear that suspects may have been tipped off to what they were doing by information leaking out of Amdocs.

In tonight's report, we learn that the concern about phone security extends to another company, founded in Israel, that provides the technology that the U.S. government uses for electronic eavesdropping. Here is Carl Cameron's third report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CARL CAMERON, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The company is Comverse Infosys, a subsidiary of an Israeli-run private telecommunications firm, with offices throughout the U.S. It provides wiretapping equipment for law enforcement. Here's how wiretapping works in the U.S.

Every time you make a call, it passes through the nation's elaborate network of switchers and routers run by the phone companies. Custom computers and software, made by companies like Comverse, are tied into that network to intercept, record and store the wiretapped calls, and at the same time transmit them to investigators.

The manufacturers have continuing access to the computers so they can service them and keep them free of glitches. This process was authorized by the 1994 Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act, or CALEA. Senior government officials have now told Fox News that while CALEA made wiretapping easier, it has led to a system that is seriously vulnerable to compromise, and may have undermined the whole wiretapping system.

Indeed, Fox News has learned that Attorney General John Ashcroft and FBI Director Robert Mueller were both warned Oct. 18 in a hand-delivered letter from 15 local, state and federal law enforcement officials, who complained that "law enforcement's current electronic surveillance capabilities are less effective today than they were at the time CALEA was enacted."

Congress insists the equipment it installs is secure. But the complaint about this system is that the wiretap computer programs made by Comverse have, in effect, a back door through which wiretaps themselves can be intercepted by unauthorized parties.

Adding to the suspicions is the fact that in Israel, Comverse works closely with the Israeli government, and under special programs, gets reimbursed for up to 50 percent of its research and development costs by the Israeli Ministry of Industry and Trade. But investigators within the DEA, INS and FBI have all told Fox News that to pursue or even suggest Israeli spying through Comverse is considered career suicide.

And sources say that while various F.B.I. inquiries into Comverse have been conducted over the years, they've been halted before the actual equipment has ever been thoroughly tested for leaks. A 1999 F.C.C. document indicates several government agencies expressed deep concerns that too many unauthorized non-law enforcement personnel can access the wiretap system. And the FBI's own nondescript office in Chantilly, Virginia that actually oversees the CALEA wiretapping program, is among the most agitated about the threat.

But there is a bitter turf war internally at F.B.I. It is the FBI's office in Quantico, Virginia, that has jurisdiction over awarding contracts and buying intercept equipment. And for years, they've thrown much of the business to Comverse. A handful of former U.S. law enforcement officials involved in awarding Comverse government contracts over the years now work for the company.

Numerous sources say some of those individuals were asked to leave government service under what knowledgeable sources call "troublesome circumstances" that remain under administrative review within the Justice Department.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

And what troubles investigators most, particularly in New York, in the counter terrorism investigation of the World Trade Center attack, is that on a number of cases, suspects that they had sought to wiretap and survey immediately changed their telecommunications processes. They started acting much differently as soon as those supposedly secret wiretaps went into place – Brit.

HUME: Carl, is there any reason to suspect in this instance that the Israeli government is involved?

CAMERON: No, there's not. But there are growing instincts in an awful lot of law enforcement officials in a variety of agencies who suspect that it had begun compiling evidence, and a highly classified investigation into that possibility – Brit.

HUME: All right, Carl. Thanks very much.

Part 4 of 4

TONY SNOW, HOST: This week, senior correspondent Carl Cameron has reported on a longstanding government espionage investigation. Federal officials this year have arrested or detained nearly 200 Israeli citizens suspected of belonging to an "organized intelligence-gathering operation." The Bush administration has deported most of those arrested after Sept. 11, although some are in custody under the new anti-terrorism law.

Cameron also investigates the possibility that an Israeli firm generated billing data that could be used for intelligence purpose, and describes concerns that the federal government's own wiretapping system may be vulnerable. Tonight, in part four of the series, we'll learn about the probable roots of the probe: a drug case that went bad four years ago in L.A.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CARL CAMERON, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Los Angeles, 1997, a major local, state and federal drug investigating sours. The suspects: Israeli organized crime with operations in New York, Miami, Las Vegas, Canada, Israel and Egypt. The allegations: cocaine and ecstasy trafficking, and sophisticated white-collar credit card and computer fraud.

The problem: according to classified law enforcement documents obtained by Fox News, the bad guys had the cops’ beepers, cell phones, even home phones under surveillance. Some who did get caught admitted to having hundreds of numbers and using them to avoid arrest.

"This compromised law enforcement communications between LAPD detectives and other assigned law enforcement officers working various aspects of the case. The organization discovered communications between organized crime intelligence division detectives, the FBI and the Secret Service."

Shock spread from the DEA to the FBI in Washington, and then the CIA. An investigation of the problem, according to law enforcement documents, concluded, "The organization has apparent extensive access to database systems to identify pertinent personal and biographical information."

When investigators tried to find out where the information might have come from, they looked at Amdocs, a publicly traded firm based in Israel. Amdocs generates billing data for virtually every call in America, and they do credit checks. The company denies any leaks, but investigators still fear that the firm's data is getting into the wrong hands.

When investigators checked their own wiretapping system for leaks, they grew concerned about potential vulnerabilities in the computers that intercept, record and store the wiretapped calls. A main contractor is Comverse Infosys, which works closely with the Israeli government, and under a special grant program, is reimbursed for up to 50 percent of its research and development costs by Israel's Ministry of Industry and Trade.

Asked this week about another sprawling investigation and the detention of 60 Israeli since Sept. 11, the Bush administration treated the questions like hot potatoes.

ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I would just refer you to the Department of Justice with that. I'm not familiar with the report.

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: I'm aware that some Israeli citizens have been detained. With respect to why they're being detained and the other aspects of your question – whether it's because they're in intelligence services, or what they were doing – I will defer to the Department of Justice and the FBI to answer that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMERON: Beyond the 60 apprehended or detained, and many deported since Sept. 11, another group of 140 Israeli individuals have been arrested and detained in this year in what government documents describe as "an organized intelligence gathering operation," designed to "penetrate government facilities." Most of those individuals said they had served in the Israeli military, which is compulsory there.

But they also had, most of them, intelligence expertise, and either worked for Amdocs or other companies in Israel that specialize in wiretapping. Earlier this week, the Israeli embassy in Washington denied any spying against or in the United States – Tony.

SNOW: Carl, we've heard the comments from Ari Fleischer and Colin Powell. What are officials saying behind the scenes?

CAMERON: Well, there's real pandemonium described at the FBI, the DEA and the INS. A lot of these problems have been well known to some investigators, many of who have contributed to the reporting on this story. And what they say is happening is supervisors and management are now going back and collecting much of the information, because there's tremendous pressure from the top levels of all of those agencies to find out exactly what's going on.

At the DEA and the FBI already a variety of administration reviews are under way, in addition to the investigation of the phenomenon. They want to find out how it is all this has come out, as well as be very careful because of the explosive nature and very political ramifications of the story itself – Tony.

SNOW: All right, Carl, thanks.

Content and Programming Copyright 2001 Fox News Network, Inc. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Transcription Copyright 2001 eMediaMillWorks, Inc. (f/k/a Federal Document Clearing House, Inc.), which takes sole responsibility for the accuracy of the transcription. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. No license is granted to the user of this material except for the user's personal or internal use and, in such case, only one copy may be printed, nor shall user use any material for commercial purposes or in any fashion that may infringe upon Fox News Network, Inc.'s and eMediaMillWorks, Inc.'s copyrights or other proprietary rights or interests in the material. This is not a legal transcript for purposes of litigation.
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