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Show ALL Forums  > Health Wellness  > Smoking, how brainwashed are you?      Mod Threads Home login  
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 Author Thread: Smoking, how brainwashed are you?
 newguy106

Joined: 7/26/2006
Msg: 1
Smoking, how brainwashed are you?
Posted: 8/14/2006 9:38:23 PM
Conventional wisdom indicates smoking to be very bad for your health.
Conventional wisdom also used to indicate that the earth was the center of the solar system and that everything else revolved around it.


Where smoking is concerned, it's obvious that if everybody who smoked developed lung cancer, we could say, conclusively, that smoking "causes" lung cancer. But we all know that not everybody who smokes develops lung cancer, and we also all know of many people who don't smoke a day in their lives, but none-the-less develop lung cancer at an early age and die from the disease.

Hal Roach, the producer of the "Little Rascals" movies, was a heavy, 3 or 4 pack-per-day cigarette smoker for his entire life, but died recently, at the age of 101, apparently from simple old age. Just the other day, CNN showed a picture of a Lebanese gentleman, who claims to be 134 years old. He was vigorously puffing on a cigarette, burned down almost all the way to his lips. His formula for a long life: smoking and drinking every day, along with the consumption of fresh vegetables. The world's oldest woman, a 125 year old resident of France, smoked until she was 123.

In my own family, my aunt died recently in Florida, at the age of 78, from lung cancer. She'd been a smoker in her youth, but gave it up about 25 years ago. A family friend, also a female, died in New York at about the same time as my aunt died. The family friend was in her late 70's or early 80's, and had never smoked a day in her life. Thus, these little old ladies became statistics. Or did they? Actually, it may surprise the reader to learn that death certificates never contain any information concerning the life-styles of the decedents. Therefore, while the Public Health Service keeps certain records showing the cause of death from various diseases, nobody, but nobody keeps any records to show whether the decedents were or were not smokers!

There is an Internet News Group devoted to smoking (alt.smokers). Recently, a participant called the Office of Smoking or Health, in an effort to find out how the government arrives at its estimate of 450,000 annual smoking related deaths. After repeated calls to different individuals within the government, it turned out that nobody really knew how the figures are compiled. Some bureaucrat said he thought the calculations might come from a book, "Foundations of Modern Epidemiology", by David Lilienfeld. They don't. I'll discuss this and other interesting statistical manipulations, later.



A common myth about smoking assert that the lungs of smokers become brown or even black from years of accumulation of tars and goo. Not true, according to Wray Kephart. Mr. Kephart presently works as an engineer but he previously worked in a hospital, performing autopsies, most of which were paid for by insurance companies, seeking to determine whether the deceased committed suicide, or died from "natural causes". Kephart tells me that he's done approximately 1560 autopsies, and he's seen some strange things, such as the lungs of auto painters, which were "effectively sealed with catalyzed lacquers".

Kephart insists, however, that it is normally impossible to tell, from autopsy, whether the deceased was or was not a smoker. Upon resection, the lungs are always clear, unless the deceased lived in a large city where there was significant industrial pollution. In that event, carbon deposits may be found, but these are unrelated to smoking. So the "brown lungs" myth is exactly that: a myth.



Actually, Dr. Burns is not the only medical doctor who has begun to question that simplistic notion. Julian Whitaker, MD, is a practitioner of "alternative medicine", a writer of a monthly newsletter on health and exercise, and no friend of smoking. However, in the October, 1995, issue of his newsletter, "Health and Healing", Doctor Whitaker writes:


"Since 1950, the incidence of all cancers in people between the ages of 50 and 60 years has increased by 44%, with even higher increases in some of the more deadly forms of cancer. Breast and colon cancer went up 60%, prostate up 100% and testicular cancer for men between the ages of 28 and 35 went up 300%. Lung cancer has gone up 262%, an increase that is obviously not related to cigarette smoking, because over the same period the number of people smoking cigarettes dropped from 50% to 25%..."


All quotes obtained from http://www.forces.org/

Particularly from the article http://www.forces.org/evidence/colby/b-chap2.htm

So what do you guys think?
 Billbutler8

Joined: 3/12/2005
Msg: 2
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Smoking, how brainwashed are you?
Posted: 8/14/2006 11:05:37 PM
Smoking may not cause lung cancer in EVERYONE, but what it does cause in everyone, eventually is emphysema.

I am no doctor, but I have a bunch of common sense. Smoking robs the body of vitamin C...actually depletes it. It also depletes many other vitamins and elements. There are also many chemicals in commercial cigarettes, those additives being just as bad as some of the naturally occurring ones in tobacco...

If you are a smoker, it is possible with proper supplementation, and mega doses of Vitamin C especially, supplementing heavily with antioxidants...natural food products, as well as nutritional supplements…To overcome the bad effects smoking causes, all of them, except for emphysema.

Many cancers are caused by a long term diet of processed foods which have no nutritional value. If a smoker on top of this, I imagine, this would be the bulk of smoking related cancers. So, did the smoking cause it, or the poor eating, or a combo of both? Could it be smokers generally are people who tend to ignore their health? Who is to say what caused the cancer if that is the case? Usually when someone hears of a smoker who dies of lung cancer, they automatically make the assumption that the smoking caused the cancer. Who is to say?

Please don’t think I am promoting smoking here…I feel very strongly about the fact the CDC does not mention much of anything of supplementation of the nutrients smoking robs one of, and simply focuses on encouraging people to stop smoking. To stop smoking is a good thing. No one is saying smoking is necessarily good for you.
By stopping smoking, the body repairs itself, and even after years of smoking can repair itself to the level of as if you had never smoked.

My grandfather died at age 93. Liver problems. Old age. We get old we die. He smoked Camel unfiltered from age 12 till the day he died. He also ate well, natural foods, and supplemented his diet. My point. The key: proper nutrition. If you smoke, understand about importance of nutritional supplements. And, best not to smoke at all.
 chakraloard

Joined: 7/13/2006
Msg: 3
Smoking, how brainwashed are you?
Posted: 8/14/2006 11:16:44 PM
I am a smoker and will willingly admit that it's bad for you...

I don't know about vitamin depleater but it's defenitely hard on the wallet.
 Spelly

Joined: 6/6/2006
Msg: 4
Smoking, how brainwashed are you?
Posted: 8/15/2006 4:16:03 AM
I wouldn't say brainwashed ~ I'd say addicted. Research is split on which is more addictive ~ nicotine or heroin. I like smoking but I don't like being a smoker if that makes any sense .
 Billbutler8

Joined: 3/12/2005
Msg: 5
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Smoking, how brainwashed are you?
Posted: 8/15/2006 7:44:11 AM

I am a smoker and will willingly admit that it's bad for you...

I don't know about vitamin depleater but it's defenitely hard on the wallet.


nicotine is a drug. you are an addict...at least in terms of cost, it cost less than cocaine or heroin...

The supplements you need to take will cost more...

try this, though...get some vitamin C.

begin to take mega doses of it.

you will discover something.

take 10,000 mg C twice a day. On the second day you will see it completely takes away the craving. promise. try it.
 awaitingyu

Joined: 5/17/2005
Msg: 6
Smoking, how brainwashed are you?
Posted: 8/15/2006 7:58:07 AM
It's interesting, I have never smoked, never curious to even try it, and I don't get why it's so hard to quit for someone who does smoke. Addicting or not, it's in the mind..mind over matter. So many people I know who smoke know it's bad for them lol...yet they still continue with it. The same people are complaining cuz they never have any money, yet manage to spend money for a pack or 2 a day of cigs lol....they hate when their car smells of smoke, or won't have their house smelling of smoke, but they don't care to quit, so they live out on their porch every 30 min to satisfy their craving lol. I even know some women who don't go after guys who smoke, cuz she doesn't like it, yet they smoke themselves....lol

weird weird weird....

Like I said, I am sure it's a physical addiction to some point, but to me it's about 80% mental. It was mental when you started the first time, it was mental when you continued the 2nd and third out of curiosity or peer pressure, or nerves, or stress, all that is mental. The result, smoking is the physical. I have known some people to just stop all together and did it. It can be done, but if you have been smoking for years and 10 yrs and so on, than all your habits other than the smoking ITSELF has to be changed and that won't happen over night.....

it's more than just a "smoking habit" it's all the other little tiny habits it creates down the road that you don't even realize are habits.....It becomes like grabbing your keys everytime you near your car....habitual.....certain things trigger the craving for it, and that is what you have to conquer, not so much the smoking itself. You conquer your "triggers" and you can conquer the results......Think about it :)
 Sara Goldfarb

Joined: 10/4/2005
Msg: 7
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Smoking, how brainwashed are you?
Posted: 8/15/2006 12:07:25 PM
hey, my ex-father in law died from emphysema and never smoked a cigarette...my dad smoked till he got sick, and died from pancreatic cancer...

I've been a smoker for close to 20 years now and it's not mind over matter, it's an addiction; the patch works (I quit for over a year, while pregnant with my youngest and shortly thereafter, but started up as soon as I got off the patch)

I'm on Wellbutrin now, and the cravings aren't so bad; I've been sitting here since 8am and haven't had (or wanted) a smoke yet, but we'll see what happens at 4 when I get in the car to go home...
 newguy106

Joined: 7/26/2006
Msg: 8
Smoking, how brainwashed are you?
Posted: 8/15/2006 12:16:26 PM

nicotine is a drug. you are an addict...at least in terms of cost, it cost less than cocaine or heroin...

The supplements you need to take will cost more...

try this, though...get some vitamin C.

begin to take mega doses of it.

you will discover something.

take 10,000 mg C twice a day. On the second day you will see it completely takes away the craving. promise. try it.



"But hold onto your pill bottles. In recent weeks, some studies have suggested that far from being a panacea, vitamin C might actually contribute to heart disease and cancer. What's more, while Americans are now spending some $724 million per year on vitamin C pills, a government report released last April suggests that these supplements are simply unnecessary, whether in large doses or small.

Antioxidants act like cops in the body, apprehending the rowdy molecules called free radicals that form naturally during metabolism and that can damage cells. One theory holds that free radicals promote chronic diseases like cancer, heart disease, and Alzheimer's, and that by increasing our consumption of antioxidants, we can stave off these feared killers.

The first of two recent studies that called this notion into question was carried out by David Golde, MD, physician-in-chief at Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center in New York City, and described at an American Cancer Society meeting in March 2000. Golde and his colleagues transplanted human cancer cells into mice, injected the mice with vitamin C, and then measured the amount of the vitamin in the cells. They found that cancer cells seem to soak up large amounts of vitamin C by converting it into a form that's easier to absorb. The results, Golde says, raise the possibility that cancer cells may use vitamin C to shield themselves against radiation and chemotherapy

While the jury is still out on vitamin C's safety, a comprehensive review of the evidence suggests that taking supplements doesn't provide nearly the protection against disease that many people think it does. In a report released in April 2000, the Institute of Medicine, an independent scientific organization that advises the federal government, examined whether vitamin C and other antioxidants prevent chronic diseases. After weighing the results from more than a thousand studies, the scientists decided they didn't.

"I think what the data show is that vitamin C is an important antioxidant," says Jacob, a member of the panel. "But it's not a magic bullet. Taking more of it is not going to solve those diseases."

The Institute of Medicine panel did, however, change the recommended dietary allowance (RDA) for vitamin C. The government now advises that men get 90 milligrams per day and women 75 milligrams. Smokers should get an additional 35 milligrams a day, the panel said. That's an increase from the 60 milligrams of the previous RDA, but it's far lower than the dose in many multivitamins -- and well below the amounts that people like Hoge take.

Taking any more than about 200 milligrams per day is likely a waste of money anyway, according to a landmark study by Mark Levine of the NIH. Levine's group found that the body's cells can't absorb more than about 100 milligrams per day, and the concentration of vitamin C in the blood begins to level off at a dose of 200 milligrams per day. The study appeared in the April 1996 issue of Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. "

http://www.webmd.com/content/article/12/1668_50385

10 Grams of Vitamin C is alot. If you wanna piss Vitamin C all day go ahead and make a hobby of it.
 newguy106

Joined: 7/26/2006
Msg: 9
Smoking, how brainwashed are you?
Posted: 8/15/2006 12:17:40 PM
Awaitingyu,

I think your right on the ball on what you posted.
 Billbutler8

Joined: 3/12/2005
Msg: 10
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Smoking, how brainwashed are you?
Posted: 8/15/2006 1:06:37 PM

Antioxidants act like cops in the body, apprehending the rowdy molecules called free radicals that form naturally during metabolism and that can damage cells. One theory holds that free radicals promote chronic diseases like cancer, heart disease, and Alzheimer's, and that by increasing our consumption of antioxidants, we can stave off these feared killers.


absolutely...exactly what I am talking about.

Garlic and ginger---excellent...I have a****ail of antioxidents I take from time to time on a consistant basis..(that sounds funny) I go in waves with it..

as for the vitamin C

C with Rosemary...
 Chipits

Joined: 6/29/2006
Msg: 11
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Smoking, how brainwashed are you?
Posted: 8/15/2006 4:17:32 PM
Almost 6 weeks ago, someone in one of the forums mentioned a web site
www.whyquit.com . It is THE source of information on smoking, quitting, motivation, and support. After 39 years of slavery, I have not smoked since I first visited that site, and I was one who said I would never quit until there was some sort of brain operation to take away the desire...well. I did quit....For me, it was easier DONE than SAID......If you are thinking about health issues and you are a smoker, check it out, or if you are curious and want to know more about nicotine addiction, check it out ,.......everything is free, free, free, and there are no gimics........just truth, education, and motivation, scads of interesting reading, and a support forum if you care to join up... It is an awesome place to be for a life-changing , health enhancing experience..........Chipits
 drrilll

Joined: 7/21/2005
Msg: 12
Smoking, how brainwashed are you?
Posted: 8/16/2006 1:28:24 AM
Haha, ran out of cigs the other night, so I didn't smoke, no biggie, the funny thing was when I left the house the next day and grabbed something to eat, I really enjoyed it. Usually I just cram my face with something before work, anyway, wierd. And quitting smoking is not like breaking one habit. I do, I dunno, like 100 things in a day, and many of them are associated in one way or another with a cigarette. So I have quit while at home, no problemo, but then this happens and I get a craving, or that happens and I get a craving. It's like trying to break 100 different habits. Not impossible I guess, you do the same thing when you move or start a new job, but its a sneaky little habit for sure. Gets you when you are focused somewhere else, sneaks up and wacks you in the back of the head. I would like to quit, I am not passionately anti-smoking, I don't hate it, but the habit itself is beginning to strike me as a bit absurd. Its dirty, smelly, costs money, I need to go out of my way at times to get some, and I do it because ... It is starting to seem like life would be simpler without it. I may end up quitting by default, simply because I'm not 'into it' anymore. It was way cooler a decade ago anyway.
 meevidently

Joined: 7/12/2006
Msg: 13
Smoking, how brainwashed are you?
Posted: 8/16/2006 7:26:08 AM
Antioxidants ... don't forget green tea!! (maybe already mentioned...sorry haven't read entire thread)

Health: Research Highlights Benefits Of Green Tea


In particular, researchers say, green tea might explain why some Asian countries have high smoking rates, but relatively few deaths from heart disease or lung cancer, both of them smoking-related diseases.

Japan, for instance, has about half the death rate from heart disease as the United States, even though the Japanese smoke far more cigarettes.http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2006/06/54E1664D-9EB3-48E0-B033-DA4A2BE2EDBD.html
 Billbutler8

Joined: 3/12/2005
Msg: 14
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Smoking, how brainwashed are you?
Posted: 8/16/2006 3:46:43 PM
^^^this is because of their diet rich in antioxidents, and omega 3s...and generally more physically active lifestyles. The health benifets of eating foods rich in Omega 3 fatty acids cannot be understated. People tend to automatically think fish..which is great, and also an excellent source. Example: Atlantic salmon. I love fish myself. But there are also non fish sources. Flaxseed oil for one is an excellent choice.
 Wolfie65

Joined: 2/17/2006
Msg: 15
Smoking, how brainwashed are you?
Posted: 8/16/2006 6:02:48 PM
I'm 'brainwashed' enough by personal experience to know that life is WAY better without smoking.
 Top It

Joined: 5/26/2006
Msg: 16
Smoking, how brainwashed are you?
Posted: 8/16/2006 10:42:00 PM
Not BW anymore, used to smoke about a pack a day. I feel so much better now that I don't smoke it is unreal.
 rainbowfishh

Joined: 4/20/2006
Msg: 17
Smoking, how brainwashed are you?
Posted: 8/17/2006 3:09:23 AM
you may not get cancer
but you will get COPD or another breathing problem.
 daisyrays

Joined: 2/16/2006
Msg: 18
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Smoking, how brainwashed are you?
Posted: 8/17/2006 6:56:54 PM
As brain washed as anyone that relies on the mass media for the majority of their information. The truth is I enjoy smoking, but I do know I feel better when I do not smoke. If you do want to quit, a combo of wellbutrin (start the doseage recommended by your doctor at least a week before you quit smoking) and the patch worked wonderfully. Not a single craving. Strangely though, coffee tasted AWFUL without a cigarette to wash it down with. Now imagine having to give up coffee AND cigarettes at the same time....HORRID!
 Abetha

Joined: 8/5/2006
Msg: 19
Smoking, how brainwashed are you?
Posted: 8/18/2006 7:23:06 PM
op....this is what i think.....what would be the purpose of telling us that cigs cause lung cancer if it doesn't?......i could see the other way around...cig companies trying to tell us it does not cause cancer.....i agree that some ppl perhaps have certain enzymes that can dodge ill effects from smoking, however, research shows that majority does not.....my gene pool has weaker lungs.....i had the beginnings of emphezema(sp) and asthma...i literally could not breathe....i was taking in oxygen at a very low %..i quit 15yrs ago and do feel better now than in my 20s......smoking and second hand smoke causes cancer and lung diseases......however, so do many other pollutants.......there are many links to cancer.....i don't think we are being brainwashed.....that just doesn't make sense....

ps....if i still smoked to this day, i would either be fertilizer or close to it.....definately on oxygen.......i truly don't think i would be here unless i had a lung transplant.....i felt that bad when i smoked....
 edward689

Joined: 3/7/2006
Msg: 20
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Smoking, how brainwashed are you?
Posted: 8/22/2006 1:05:20 PM

Conventional wisdom also used to indicate that the earth was the center of the solar system and that everything else revolved around it.


Um. I don't think that was considered conventional wisdom. I believe that until the discrediting and/or falsification of the geocentric model of the universe, it was considered a fact.

Smoking's bad for you. That's a fact. You may not get cancer; Heck you may not get anything at all according to the post. Something's gonna pop and I'm pretty sure that's common knowledge. I suspect that few people these days would consider smoking a good way to address stress or hypertension. The physiological impacts are dispersed and probably vary as much as genetic dispositions across a population.

The study informally cites a sample population of 4. Three smokers who lived into "very" old age and one who lived close to what I assume is the mean age for life expectancy in the US. Given these four cases, the average age of death for lifetime smokers is 110 years with a median age of 113. That just does not sound right to me. At any rate, I like how the stats have been cited. They at least demonstrate the fallibility of those using research methods.

I'm neither for nor against smoking. Do it if you want. If it offends your sensibility, then don't. I just think it's good to simply understand what one is getting into.

So I don't think I'm brainwashed (at least about smoking).
 Byrd

Joined: 7/19/2004
Msg: 21
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Smoking, how brainwashed are you?
Posted: 8/22/2006 5:33:21 PM
Born with athsma I smoked cigs 33 years then quite still smoke pot here and there I have the breathing problems they suck...I have aniexty more though..My gal died of a heart attack two years ago my best friend cancer 4 months after her, I'd much rather take a bullet..I wish I never smoked...I have nothing aganist those who smoke..I don't know about being brainwashed I've seen people eat shit and die and smoking played a part in it..
 brat777

Joined: 11/24/2005
Msg: 22
Smoking, how brainwashed are you?
Posted: 8/24/2006 12:48:28 AM
Considering that what was once blamed on smoking has been proven to be caused by other things entirely, I am not buying into it. Sure, it can, but I don't believe it always does. Have seen too much evidence (friends, family, coworkers) to the contrary.
 AliveInMontreal

Joined: 6/19/2006
Msg: 23
Smoking, how brainwashed are you?
Posted: 8/24/2006 5:34:15 PM
As an ex smoker (will be on 1 year on Sept 10th 06) I can say that smoking is definately not good for you! As for getting cancer, maybe not, but I know for a fact that waking up wheezing after a night of drinking and cigarette smoking can be quite "uncomfortable". Not to mention what it does to your mood. Like when you have to postpone your cigarette because something comes up. Living daily with nicotine fits is not my idea of fun.

As for quitting the addiction and habitual factors are just the tip of the iceberg. This is why I am on my third attempt at quitting. The first two times I wasn't able to deal with the loss of mental/physical numbness I got from smoking. All your senses awaken when you quit: sense of smell, sense of taste, and all of a sudden you are more aware of what is going on around you. As such things affect you much more than they did.Remember that smokers are often self-medicating. On the other hand, while your senses awaken, many parts of your body that were in hyper drive, feel as though they have shut down: I had a resting heart rate of about 90/100, now it is down to 58/65, my blood pressure was on average 160/90, and now it is 120/80. This might explain why people gain weight when they quit: on average smokers burn 200 calories per day more than their non smoking counterparts. (we're talking by doing nothing here) So that's 1400 calories per week, so about 1.5 lbs per month! (I gained 6lbs when I quit and I am working on getting rid of it) So you see, these are all things one has to adjust to.

Still, I am convinced that smoking is indeed detrimental to ones health. For me it wasn't a question of how long I would live, but how I would live. Quality vs Quantity. And wheezing is not Quality.
 FitnessBunny

Joined: 6/27/2006
Msg: 24
Smoking, how brainwashed are you?
Posted: 8/25/2006 4:15:28 PM
Smoking is bad for your health...end of story.
 ski4life

Joined: 8/11/2006
Msg: 25
Smoking, how brainwashed are you?
Posted: 8/27/2006 3:43:05 PM
If the damaging effects of smoking happened at more of a younger age, we would see less ppl smoking.


People won't quit bc they are addicted to nicotine and are trying to hide in another state of mind(same goes for alcohol too).
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