rks58
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Joined: 1/28/2006
Msg: 1 | |
| More evidence that alcohol and stupidity don't mix
Posted: 8/21/2006 2:36:42 AM |
Muslim doctor wants apology from U.S. airline
Last Updated Sat, 19 Aug 2006 20,16,51 EDT
CBC News
A Winnipeg doctor is demanding an official apology and compensation from United Airlines after being kicked
off a flight in the U.S. this week, an incident he has characterized as "institutionalized discrimination." Dr.
Ahmed Farooq, a Muslim, was escorted off an airplane in Denver on Tuesday. According to Farooq, reciting his
evening prayers was interpreted by one passenger as an activity that was suspicious.
"The whole situation is just really frustrating," Farooq said. "It makes you uneasy, because you realize you
have to essentially watch every single thing you say and do, and it's worse for people who are of colour, who
are identifiable as a minority."
Farooq said the allegation came from a passenger who appeared drunk and had previously threatened him
during the trip.
When flight personnel were alerted, the 27-year-old radiology resident and two colleagues — a man and a
woman — were taken off their flight. They had been returning from a conference in San Francisco.
Farooq said that even officials from the Transportation Security Administration soon realized the flight crew
had overreacted, but by the time that conclusion had been reached the trio were forced to stay in Denver for
the night and catch a flight the next day — at their own expense. "There's no recourse," Farooq said.
"There's no way to really be able to talk to anybody to really be able to reason it out. The police officers who
talked to me afterwards and subsequent officials within the first three to five minutes, they were like, 'You
know what? The crew made a mistake. We apologize that they took you off. They overreacted.'"
Brandon Borrman of United Airlines told the Winnipeg Free Press this week that the airline is obliged to take
any allegations threatening passenger safety seriously, particularly in the wake of last week's arrests in the
alleged bomb plot on flights from Britain to the U.S.
"Whenever these types of claims are made we have a duty to investigate," Borrman said. "Our flight crews are
trained to make safety the No. 1 priority."
Winnipeg MP Pat Martin has called on federal Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day to raise the issue with his
American counterparts.
Wow, so this is what the endless 'demonizing' of Muslims is coming to.
One drunken passenger can make an allegation out of ignorance (and from the sounds of it, deliberately
ignorant) and you're automatically suspicious. Used to be it was the belligerent drunks who got tossed
What I find amazing (in a flabberghasting way) is that the issue was so simple it only took 3-5
minutes to figure out that the crew over-reacted.
At least the police and security had the manners to apologize but I definitely think the airline owes these
people some compensation for their expenses (and I would have no problem if the airline sued the ignorant
drunk to get THEIR money back). | |
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| More evidence that alcohol and stupidity don't mix
Posted: 8/21/2006 2:57:06 AM | I can hardly wait to here this one through the CAMERA/MEMRI filters:
Terrorist plot foiled by air crew
On a tip from an alert passenger.....blah blah blah....tragedy in the sky prevented..
..blah blah blah....passenger and crew deserve a medal......blah blah blah....hate our
way of life.....blah blah blah....Muslim menace....yadda yadda.
(sigh)
Wow, so this is what the endless 'demonizing' of Muslims is coming to.
I doubt it's reached it's worst. | |
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vivid
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Joined: 6/30/2006
Msg: 3 | |
| More evidence that alcohol and stupidity don't mix
Posted: 8/21/2006 3:05:42 AM | It's the way it was in the Vietnam era or WW2 when everybody referred
to the Japanese as JAPS and the Germans as....
But today we sure love their cars....no war no problem jumping on the
0 down and 0% interest plans. | |
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| More evidence that alcohol and stupidity don't mix
Posted: 8/21/2006 4:26:20 AM | Maybe to someone not too familiar with the Muslim faith, seeing a Muslim saying prayers on a plane just may
make them think that he may be planning on meeting Allah sooner rather than later. Especially after the last
scare.
I do agree alcohol and stupidity don't mix. Only increases the stupidity.
jmho | |
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| More evidence that alcohol and stupidity don't mix
Posted: 8/21/2006 4:33:18 AM | "The whole situation is just really frustrating," Farooq said. "It makes you uneasy, because
you realize you have to essentially watch every single thing you say and do, and it's worse for people who are
of colour, who are identifiable as a minority." My heart breaks because he feels uneasy about being a
person of color, now as far as being kicked off it shows a lack of judgment for the airlines.
When told he was acting "Strange", did they not ask others what he had done, to make him get off just because
of one passengers word, seems odd.
It is a bigger joke that the airlines after realizing their mistake would not at least reinburse them, for the cost of
their hotel and flights.
But, I have a feeling they will have wished they would have, when he gets done with them. | |
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| More evidence that alcohol and stupidity don't mix
Posted: 8/21/2006 6:32:23 AM | This is where democracy loses its true face. Instead of spreading democracy and freedom to other countries
–we have successfully corrupted our own. Well done! (sarcastically speaking!) Bush and company and all
theirblind supporters!!
And, BTW – before blaming the terrorists – I blame our own paranoia (acquired from watching biased media
coverage) for the change in attitude of certain ignorant fools among us.
Under special conditions – “ignorance” can be a learned behavior. Results of these ignorance – is what
we are witnessing nowadays.
Many are being taught to be ignorant by the Govt. with help from the media IMO. This drunken guy together with
all those flight crews - are obviously examples of just such nincompoops.
 | |
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| More evidence that alcohol and stupidity don't mix
Posted: 8/21/2006 7:27:53 AM | Truth: if I was on a passenger plane and someone starting muttering something under their breath...even if I knew the person was praying: I'd wonder what was going on.
Especially with the history of airline hijackings these days...
Not saying he should have been kicked off the airliner; if the person was searched, gave the reasons for his behavior and was proved not to be a threat to other passengers, then he shouldn't have been removed.
Given the events of the day, however; we can't expect people not to fear for their lives when something like that happens that they don't understand. | |
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| More evidence that alcohol and stupidity don't mix
Posted: 8/21/2006 7:49:49 AM | Unfortunately, I believe that even Muslims have to realize what America has done with this stupid war... All Muslims are the target of America. This gentleman should have realized that----especially being a Canadian.
After Maher Arar, all Canadian Muslims should know that America is more likely than ANY other nation in the world will send a person for torture in Syria----especially if you're "Commonwealth Muslim."
The man should have shown better judgement and kept his prayer either silent or waited until he was home.
Mark my words though... The next time I see a kooky Christian praying out loud on a plane, I'll target them as being "suspicious" too. ALL overtly religious types should be viewed as dnagerous. No matter what religion. | |
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| More evidence that alcohol and stupidity don't mix
Posted: 8/21/2006 8:30:03 AM |
This is where democracy loses its true face.
Instead of spreading democracy and freedom to other countries – we have successfully corrupted our own. Well done! (sarcastically speaking!) Bush and company and all their blind supporters!!
And, BTW – before blaming the terrorists – I blame our own paranoia (acquired from watching biased media coverage) for the change in attitude of certain ignorant fools among us.
Under special conditions – “ignorance” can be a learned behavior. Results of these ignorance – is what we are witnessing nowadays.
Many are being taught to be ignorant by the Govt. with help from the media IMO. This drunken guy together with all those flight crews - are obviously examples of just such nincompoops.
This is a great post. I think it's a pointedly accurate description of much of what is going on these days. Just watching Mr. Bu$h's news conference today was a perfect example of the teacher at the front of the class teaching away......
It's a good thing his reasoning cannot be challenged in that format. He wouldn't have stood a chance against people who actually think about what he says vs his current and past actions. | |
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| More evidence that alcohol and stupidity don't mix
Posted: 8/21/2006 8:57:34 AM | It is true that the drunken fool can easily be ignorant BUT the Airlines crew should be better trained to handle all sorts of scenarios especially in the wake of the current situations. They should have guidelines as to what constitutes a suspicious behavior and how to confront and properly identify them and how to discount them when they are not real.
If the Transportation Security Agency could figure out in a few minutes and discount any threat - then so should have the crews. This shows their incompetence.
After checking the doctor guy - if the drunken fool still refused to travel then - he is the one who should have been removed IMO.
I am not sure how the passenger (Dr. Farooq) was praying but if reciting prayers in a foreign language constitutes a threat and against the rules of the airlines then the “rules of riding” in that particular Airline should be clearer to all the passengers.
An Airline cannot pick and chose to satisfy one passenger at the expense of another innocent passenger. That is called discrimination in my book. The least they (airlines) should do is – compensate for the damages.
Some people have flying phobia and they like to recite prayers. It is one thing to be vigilant BUT another to abuse such people’s personal right to pray. Once again, the crew should be better trained to handle such things otherwise the Airlines is ultimately liable IMO.
Post Script: intercooler: Thanx. | |
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dmotz
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Joined: 7/25/2006
Msg: 11 | |
| More evidence that alcohol and stupidity don't mix
Posted: 8/21/2006 9:39:18 AM | | What happened to this man was WRONG. It is a shame that a good man has to go thru this crap simply because of his faith. With all the supposed airport security...he could not have brought anything onboard anyway...The drunk on the plane is a fukkin idiot. There is a lot of hate in this country for the Muslims..Why can`t people see that not ALL Muslims fanatics? | |
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| More evidence that alcohol and stupidity don't mix
Posted: 8/21/2006 10:42:54 AM | To answer that question you have to ask why your President professes that God talks to him. You see an evil face placed on all Middle Eastern people or anyone of "brown" colour and in contrast to that you have your military and your president insisting that: God is on America's side.
God is your side and Allah is on theirs. But America says Allah is a false God.
American "martyrs" are called "heros" but there is NO difference between the two terms.
Your military have said things like: "George Bush wasn't elected by the American people; he was appointed by God."
If someone disagrees, America accuses EVERYONE else of being a fanatic or a "hater of democracy" or a "hater" of the American way... The list goes on. But when someone accuses America they're wrong. they're communists. They're liberals. They're drug dealers. They're misinformed. They're "against you" as a nation.
When America ceases it's own fanaticism, things will calm down, you'll see. But as long as you're doing things like building a 900 foot Jesus in Florida, invading nations without cause and killing civilians the world over, you're gonna continue to spread hate and intolerance whether its your intention or not. It's a sad an unalterable fact. | |
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dmotz
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Joined: 7/25/2006
Msg: 13 | |
| More evidence that alcohol and stupidity don't mix
Posted: 8/21/2006 10:47:29 AM | Get real Algie...sheesh...
God is your side and Allah is on theirs. But America says Allah is a false God.
Show me where America says this....Your way off base.
American "martyrs" are called "heros" but there is NO difference between the two terms.
Again....show me this is true.
Your military have said things like: "George Bush wasn't elected by the American people; he was appointed by God."
Now this is the best yet...show me where this has been said....
If someone disagrees, America accuses EVERYONE else of being a fanatic or a "hater of democracy" or a "hater" of the American way... The list goes on. But when someone accuses America they're wrong. they're communists. They're liberals. They're drug dealers. They're misinformed. They're "against you" as a nation.
Yupp....ALL AMERICANS DO THIS....what a load of bull your trying to feed everyone Algie....
When America ceases it's own fanaticism, things will calm down, you'll see. But as long as you're doing things like building a 900 foot Jesus in Florida, invading nations without cause and killing civilians the world over, you're gonna continue to spread hate and intolerance whether its your intention or not. It's a sad an unalterable fact.
Your funny and your not even trying! | |
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| More evidence that alcohol and stupidity don't mix
Posted: 8/21/2006 11:04:05 AM | @ Rightwinggoodguy
Sorry dude, I don't know how to use the "quote" function but here it is...
It took about a second to Google it but an author of friend of mine in England who writes books of quotations emailed it to me about two years ago.
Major General William Boykin:
The Gospel of General Boykin
Preaching in his military uniform before a religious congregation in Oregon this June, General Boykin proclaimed, "we're a Christian nation, because our foundation and our roots are Judeo-Christian. Did I say Judeo-Christian? Yes. Judeo-Christian."
He continued, "The enemy that has come against our nation is a spiritual enemy. His name is Satan. And if you do not believe that Satan is real, you are ignoring the same Bible that tells you about God."
To that same congregation, still in military uniform, General Boykin said of George W. Bush that, "He was appointed by God" to be leader of the United States.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
You asked to see it and you've been shown. It's on record and it's been buried by the administration. THIS IS WHAT YOU CALL A PATRIOT?!
Hope your proud of him. He should be hung or better yet crucified.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
To another religious group in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma, General Boykin declared that the true enemy in George W. Bush's wars "is the principalities of darkness. It is a demonic presence in that city that God revealed to me as the enemy."
In a religious flyer, General Boykin is quoted as saying, "Bin Laden is not the enemy. No mortal is the enemy. It's the enemy you can't see. It's a war against the forces of darkness."
Comparing himself to a follower of Islam, General Boykin offers the taunt that "my God is bigger than his."
According to a Charisma News Service report of June 4, 2002, Boykin told to the Community Prayer Breakfast in Fort Myers that in executing the wars of George W. Bush, "It is a spiritual enemy we have to contend with. Now is the time to fight."
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| More evidence that alcohol and stupidity don't mix
Posted: 8/21/2006 8:36:20 PM | What happened to this man was WRONG. It is a shame that a good man has to go thru this crap simply
because of his faith. With all the supposed airport security...he could not have brought anything onboard
anyway...The drunk on the plane is a fukkin idiot. There is a lot of hate in this country for the Muslims..Why
can`t people see that not ALL Muslims fanatics?
Very effective PR, and fear mongering.
This has caused a lot of suffering for both kinds of "Semetic" peoples.
Unfortunately, history shows that when it comes to ignorance and bigotry, ...it's easy to get people onside.
The same thing in reverse has many people around the world thinking "not nice" things about Americans.
What's ironic, is that there are a few Muslims, Jews, and Americans, ...making the job that much easier for those
who have an agenda of hate. | |
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| More evidence that alcohol and stupidity don't mix
Posted: 8/22/2006 9:32:33 AM | Ok, I know I'm going to be labelled as a racist, but, please... can you not put yourself
in the position of the flight attendants and passengers? You are on a flight to London,
security has been beefed up, and the flight crew briefed incessantly regarding terrorists
and how to assess suspicious behavior - and you have a muslim muttering something in
a different language under his/her breath - you don't know what they're saying... but,
are you people saying you wouldn't be alarmed, in the least? ARE YOU NUTS??? You
don't have any concerns regarding your safety? It is just common sense... it is not
a white grandmother reciting the Lord's Prayer here... I don't believe it is being racist
to be concerned regarding one's safety. If you think that the terrorists are going to give
up because of increased security, you're delusional. Don't you think it is better to err on
the side of caution and safety, and report any unusual activity, than to say to yourself, oh
I don't want to be racist, so I'll just overlook someone muttering something under their
breath an unidentified muslim language...
I think the crew probably did the best they could, under the circumstances. The crew are
basically waitresses in the air, not police officers.
I do think that this passenger should be reimbursed for any out of pocket costs that he
incurred, but still... hundreds of lives are at stake here - better to be overly cautious than
be DEAD. | |
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rks58
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Joined: 1/28/2006
Msg: 19 | |
| More evidence that alcohol and stupidity don't mix
Posted: 8/22/2006 10:59:08 AM |
can you not put yourself in the position of the flight attendants and passengers?
Except it wasn't a flight to London. He was going to 'Winter-peg', likely by way of Calgary and they had already passed through boarding security.
The words of Muslim daily prayers are very specific (just like the Lord's Prayer) and, for the most part, repetative. Obviously he would be saying it quietly but I seriously doubt he was 'muttering' since the words need to be intelligible. You would have to be very naive or intentionally ignorant not to recognize the ritualistic nature of it (because it DOES look like a ritual even if you can't understand the words themselves).
Do you suppose the same thing would have happened if he had been praying in Hindi, Hebrew or an Asian language?
I tend to think probably not and that the automatic assumption was that as a muslim, if he was praying, then he MUST be preparing to become a martyr.
Just a point about being justified in being suspicious, here is a list of the successful terrorist incidents in the US last year.
Animal Liberation Front (ALF) attacked Government target (Sept. 16, 2005, United States)
Earth Liberation Front (ELF) attacked Government target (Sept. 15, 2005, United States)
Earth Liberation Front (ELF) attacked Private Citizens & Property target (Apr. 13, 2005, United States)
Earth Liberation Front (ELF) attacked Private Citizens & Property target (Mar. 3, 2005, United States)
Earth Liberation Front (ELF) attacked Private Citizens & Property target (Nov. 20, 2005, United States)
Unknown Group attacked Business target (Jan. 12, 2005, United States)
(eco-terrorists suspected but not proven)
Unknown Group attacked Business target (Nov. 29, 2005, United States)
(eco-terrorists suspected but not proven)
Unknown Group attacked Business target (Oct. 31, 2005, United States)
(eco-terrorists suspected but not proven)
Unknown Group attacked Diplomatic target (May 5, 2005, United States)
(no suspects)
Notice that there are no Muslim/Islamic groups on the list? | |
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| More evidence that alcohol and stupidity don't mix
Posted: 8/22/2006 8:24:52 PM | How do you know that the airline attendants are not versed on reporting suspicious behaviour of the above listed minorities as well? I think the public, because of the media's reporting of this last muslim incident, are perhaps a little jittery, but to state that any suspicious activity hasn't been reported - I would seriously doubt that. The media decides on what they will make a story, and what they won't - it could be very well that other incidents have occurred.
Also, I don't know the sound of the Muslim language, so indistinguishable words (I called it muttering, sorry) that a person would say would not mean anything to me, even if YOU would understand that they were a "ritual" prayer such as you suggested. I, and I think the majority of Canadians, wouldn't know the difference between a muslim, Hebrew or Hindi prayer, and I think would probably react the same way, with a bit of justifiable fear (considering the latest scare).
I didn't realize that this guy was going to Winnipeg, sorry, my mistake. | |
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rks58
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Joined: 1/28/2006
Msg: 21 | |
| More evidence that alcohol and stupidity don't mix
Posted: 9/5/2006 3:32:58 PM | An interesting addition to this thread
Jewish man removed from airplane for praying
Last Updated: Tuesday, September 5, 2006 3.09 PM ET
CBC News
Some fellow passengers are questioning why an Orthodox Jewish man was removed from an Air Canada Jazz flight in Montreal last week for praying.
The man was a passenger on a Sept. 1 flight from Montreal to New York City when the incident happened.
The airplane was heading towards the runway at the Pierre Elliott Trudeau International Airport when eyewitnesses said the Orthodox man began to pray.
"He was clearly a Hasidic Jew," said Yves Faguy, a passenger seated nearby. "He had some sort of cover over his head. He was reading from a book.
"He wasn't exactly praying out loud but he was lurching back and forth," Faguy added.
The action didn't seem to bother anyone, Faguy said, but a flight attendant approached the man and told him his praying was making other passengers nervous.
"The attendant actually recognized out loud that he wasn't a Muslim and that she was sorry for the situation but they had to ask him to leave," Faguy said.
The man, who spoke neither English nor French, was escorted off the airplane.
Air Canada Jazz termed the situation "delicate," but says it received more than one complaint about the man's behaviour.
The crew had to act in the interest of the majority of passengers, said Jazz spokeswoman Manon Stewart.
"The passenger did not speak English or French, so we really had no choice but to return to the gate to secure a translator," she said.
The airline is not saying if the man was told he was not allowed to pray, but a spokesperson said the man was back on board the next flight to New York.
Jewish leaders in Montreal criticized the move as insensitive, saying the flight attendants should have explained to the other passengers that the man was simply praying and doing no harm.
Hasidic Rabbi Ronny Fine said he often prays on airplanes, but typically only gets curious stares.
"If it's something that you're praying in your own seat and not taking over the whole plane, I don't think it should be a problem," said Fine.
The Jewish group B'nai Brith Canada has offered to help give Air Canada crews sensitivity training.
Definitely a step in the right direction.
As long as the standard is the same for all then I have less issue with the original incident although I don't believe prayer of any religion or in any language should be automatic grounds for suspicion.
I do find it interesting that that the stewardess found it necessary to point out that she knew he wasn't "middle eastern" (as if that really makes a difference, the Jewish Defense League has made its' share of terrorist attacks).
I find it even more interesting that B'nai Brith thinks airlines need sensitivity training for treating a Jewish person in the same way a Muslim person was treated in this regard but not a word in support of "sensitivity" or criticism for the Canadian Muslim. | |
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| More evidence that alcohol and stupidity don't mix
Posted: 9/5/2006 5:29:51 PM |
I find it even more interesting that B'nai Brith thinks airlines need sensitivity training for treating a Jewish person in the same way a Muslim person was treated in this regard but not a word in support of "sensitivity" or criticism for the Canadian Muslim.
In the article it didn't state that the B'nai Brith said the airline NEEDED sensitivity training, it merely offered to help give Air Canada crews sensitivity training. It also didn't specify that the sensitivity training was merely to be in regards to their treatment of Jewish passengers. Why try to put a negative spin on a seemingly positive offer? | |
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| More evidence that alcohol and stupidity don't mix
Posted: 9/5/2006 7:16:37 PM | A passenger reporting something suspicious to the air crew ? That's a good thing.
It's up to the crew to respond properly, and to ensure there is no threat. That could have been done quite easily, and this could have been resolved in a few minutes. If there was any doubt after talking to the passenger involved, then other measures could have been taken.
What was done to this person was wrong, and he should be compensated. | |
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