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| It's flirting when he's hot and sexual harassement when he's not - What do you think
Posted: 3/19/2005 4:57:20 PM | | yes it is and it happens right here where i work. a woman almost got a guy fired by walking up and asking her what it would cost him to get a piece of that. she looked at him and said more than you could imagine. she went upstairs and turned him in for harassment. he almost got fired, but they gave him another chance. it went down just like you said, cause she flirted with guys all the time. | |
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| It's flirting when he's hot and sexual harassement when he's not - What do you think
Posted: 3/19/2005 5:00:13 PM | "yes it is and it happens right here where i work. a woman almost got a guy fired by walking up and asking her what it would cost him to get a piece of that. she looked at him and said more than you could imagine. she went upstairs and turned him in for harassment. he almost got fired, but they gave him another chance. it went down just like you said, cause she flirted with guys all the time. "
Yes indeed, you could get away with that back in the day, I recall the movie "It's a Wonderful Life" with Jimmy Stewart.....when "Violet" walks by in a nice looking polka dot dress...and the guys all whistle at her, and tell her how good she looks or something.
And she turns around, with a smile, and says, "What? This old thing?? I only wear this when I don't care how I look"
She just made some witty comment back, played along with it and that was that.
Just to add...."Sexual Harrassment" In the workplace, if you remember the old HR 80's videos...it explicitly was intended for supervisors who intended on "Blackmailing" their female subordinates into doing favors for them because they will "go far" or perhaps get fired if they don't do sexual favors for them...typically it was aimed at those who had power.
Now its aimed at everyone...so now...you always have to be careful with what you say....there's someone I know who is nice...but not too chummy with anyone...just comes to work, does his job...and leaves. | |
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| It's flirting when he's hot and sexual harassement when he's not - What do you think
Posted: 3/19/2005 5:15:31 PM | I am glad this was brought up, for I was, for a lack of a better term "Victim" (I guess she was the victim, but that's up to interpetation.
I used to work at the college computer lab during my college days, a friend of mine had this rather cute female friend who would come visit him.
Anyhow, me being the unattached man I was at the time, had a thing for her. My friend introduced me to her.
Apparently she worked at the front window at one of the offices, she was a clerk of some sort, typical secretary stuff. Anyways, I was making runs back and forth, and I typically would go in front of her window....one time, I stopped to say Hi to her and attempted to chat her up...she didn't seem too friendly, but who knows why.
Anyways, I'm doing runs back and forth to an office down stairs, and I always would go by her desk, however, I would be "looking" at her each time I went by (she was very cute, just couldn't stop looking at her, LOL!)
Anyways, I get a call down to "Student Relations", called on the carpet.
A gentleman who was working there appeared to have his briefcase already set and ready to go home (it was around 5 ish). ANd he told me about this "girl" who said I was following her around. Well, apparently I found out it was that girl I had been "Checkin' out"
I was honest with him, although I had not been "following her around" told him I kinda liked her, but she was a bit stand offish when I would attempt to talk to her, so I kinda I backed off...I told him this.
And believe it or not, he sided with me...he figured she was just one of those typical crazy nut jobs that cry "stalker" all the time...though he didn't it in those terms, I paraphrased it. He attributed it to her immaturity, because she was the typical colleged aged 19 year old...I was like 26, or 27 at the time.
SO needless to say, there was really no big thing.....Im sure that kind of thing at college happens all the time.
You really have nothing to lose when you "work" at two bit job in college, when your main focus are your classes, and the occasional frat party. LOL. | |
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| It's flirting when he's hot and sexual harassement when he's not - What do you think
Posted: 3/19/2005 5:57:19 PM | RitzNB: I was formerly both an HR Manager and Security Manager and what you are saying is very true. Many times women screamed sexual harassment when a relationship with a male employee went sour. Most of my investigations, both as an HR Mgr and Security Mgr, resulted in there not being any real sexual harassment. However, and this is important, the man was warned and often times, despite the fact he was found not guilty, he was transferred to an unwanted job in another department, even after progressing to his former station over a period of years.
I spent a lot of time constantly telling male employees that any dating of co-workers could become sexual harassment and end their careers.
Here's another side. After the investigations, which normally didn't end until a lot of people were called in to provide corroborating evidence one way or the other, the two would again get back together and re-establish the relationship (it didn't happen often, but it did happen).
My advice to any male working anywhere NEVER DATE A FEMALE CO-WORKER AND NEVER FLIRT WITH A FEMALE CO-WORKER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE because it could be a one way ticket out the door of the company you work for and ruin your career (because of reference checks by the subsequent company). If you are a boss, this advice is doubly strong! | |
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RitzNB
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Joined: 3/16/2005
Msg: 13 | |
| It's flirting when he's hot and sexual harassement when he's not - What do you think
Posted: 3/19/2005 6:14:34 PM | That's what's sad. It's his word against hers. I've never been sexually harassed. Darn !!! Just kidding. If the situation would present itself I would confront the man doing it. I would politely tell him that he's making me very uncomfortable. I'd ask him to stop doing it. If it would continue then I would once again tell him how I felt (not so politely this time). If that didn't work then I would write down the days and events that have transpired since I spoke to him and would report it to management. Hopefully he would be transferred to another department. I think firing someone for sexual harassement is a bit extreme. He might be a total ***hole but if he has a wife and family to support they shouldn't pay for his bad behavior. I think a warning and transfer would be a better solution unless he's harassing many co workers. Then it's on him if he does get fired. Having said that I've seen cases where a woman just wants to get back at another male co worker. He may have actually rejected her advances so to get even she cries sexual harrassment. Unfortunately, most people in management tend to side with the ladies. It's unfair to ruin a man's reputation, career, life out of spite. These women need to be taught a lesson.
I remember seeing a woman on tv say it was sexual harrassment because the men at her work put up a poster of nude women in the lunch room. Give me a break. She just had to put up a Chippendale's calendar next to it. She claims they would look at the calendar in her presence, made sexual comments/remarks and that made her uncomfortable. I can relate to that aspect of it. I am after all a woman. What do you think? Is this incident sexual harrassment or not. How on earth do you spell sexual harrassment. LOL | |
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| It's flirting when he's hot and sexual harassement when he's not - What do you think
Posted: 3/19/2005 6:32:39 PM | "If the situation would present itself I would confront the man doing it. I would politely tell him that he's making me very uncomfortable. I'd ask him to stop doing it."
That is good of your Ritz, in fact, I think a man would typically sincerely respect you for saying that to him, even grow to like you for the right reasons, because your statement would be sincere, and perhaps even like you for it. | |
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RitzNB
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Joined: 3/16/2005
Msg: 15 | |
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| It's flirting when he's hot and sexual harassement when he's not - What do you think
Posted: 3/19/2005 6:43:40 PM | No RitzNB, the lady on TV is correct. Here's a very brief description of what sexual harassment is:
1. ANY unwelcomed attention (ANY!).
2. Engaging in a HOSTILE or ADVERSE environmental activity that is OFFENSIVE to a non-participant.
Let me give you an example. If one male employee does some horseplay with another male employee (like throwing a tennis ball back and forth on a shipping loading dock) and laughing and joking back and forth "Aw, you dummy, you can't catch it", it can be considered as an adverse environmental activity by a male non-participant entering into the environment or, especially, a female non-participant entering into the environment.
I'll give you another example. A male employee called a female employee at home and made advances. She came into the office and complained to me and said she was offended. I questioned the male employee. He said he called her. He was reprimanded and told not to do it again. A few months later he called her again after drinking a few glasses of wine. The conversation got rough, he asked her if her P...y was pretty and did she like it in the m...th!
She complained to me. I asked him. He denied it.
With her permission I put a recorder on her home phone. A week later he called again. Same thing, but milder this time without the profanity, however he was sexually suggestive. I fired him! He was a professional employee with an MBA in Business. He had worked for the company five years. He threatened to sue the company for wrongful discharge, but never did.
To repeat, for the benefit of all the men out there, this is serious stuff and it's getting more serious by the day. Don’t date or flirt with female co-workers or, frankly, with any female employee of the company you work for; it isn’t worth it. All the person has to do is accuse you and even if the evidence doesn’t support the allegation, you still could lose your standing in the company and miss a valuable promotion. | |
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RitzNB
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Joined: 3/16/2005
Msg: 17 | |
| It's flirting when he's hot and sexual harassement when he's not - What do you think
Posted: 3/19/2005 6:54:55 PM | | I agree with you Ron. The example you gave is definitely sexual harassment. No doubt about it. This gentleman went too far. I could see why the woman felt really uncomfortable and contacted you. What was this guy thinking. The way a man presents himself in an office and at a bar are different. Even if he would have met this lady in a bar and did what he did it would still be inappropriate behavior especially when she made it clear his advances were unwelcome. He needs to rent a porno and jerk himself off. Or call a 900 number. That type of behavior would be welcome. It would also give him a hefty phone bill. As for the calendar thing I could relate to the woman on tv but at the same time I think it wasn't that bad. She needed to lighten up a bit or eat elsewhere. The men needed to be a bit more sensitive to her and leave the locker talk in the locker room. | |
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| It's flirting when he's hot and sexual harassement when he's not - What do you think
Posted: 3/19/2005 11:24:35 PM | RitzNB: I kept tract of him through our mutual friends. He wasn't a creep. He is successful today. Right after being fired, he took a vacation. Went to Holland. Got so much p...y that when he came back he was celibate for a while. Got married again and the last I heard, he has a nice second family. I forgot to mention, he went through a terrible divorce and had two children by his first wife. He was very much in love with his first wife and was against the breakup. They had been married for a long time.
Most women would put him in the "nice guy" category. He was just going through an emotional period in his life, felt sorry for himself, and was lonely. He and the lady he hit on had known each other for a number of years.
The woman he propositioned was a 43 year old virgin (she said). Although she was quite attractive, she never dated. She was a strong Christian and didn't believe in sex before marriage. Furthermore, for some reason, she felt that I didn't take action fast enough and she also threatened to sue both me and the company. However, it did all work out well, and she didn't sue and was still with the company in 2003.
I met the woman after I left the firm at a company Christmas party a few years later, in 2002. She was still unmarried and a virgin at 47(she says, and I believe her). | |
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| It's flirting when he's hot and sexual harassement when he's not - What do you think
Posted: 3/20/2005 12:08:42 AM |  Been there done that,ON-LINE DATING serves a purpose,it's called Keep your nose to the grind stone...(-;
 What ever you work with,you do NOT date,or flirt with...(-; 
 The reason for this is very simple,do you like your job???
if your on the job romance fails,you will be looking for another job and she will loose nothing,better yet she may deside to go for sexual harassment...(-;
 Same Question,do you like your job,or do you like sitting in a court room listening to all your co-workers tell the most outlandish lie's about you??? /-;  
I own the opperation and I was fraimed,by a girl who had everything to gain,by fraiming me...*J* As a direct result she did not get to marry the guy she said that she was in Love with,because his father a well respected Sherrif in my town came to my defense,and the girl got run out of my town on a rail...*J*
But had I not been known to be a good and respectable man,it could have gone another way...*J*
At work, you work and that is all,on POF we get to know each other on-line,we may even date each other through a semi safe environment,but even here there are No Garentees... | |
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| It's flirting when he's hot and sexual harassement when he's not - What do you think
Posted: 3/20/2005 4:23:33 AM | Only responding to the original post and not any replies (because i don't feel like reading them)
Where do you live that people charge each other with sexual harrassment for flirting and the cops let them get away with it?
Geez, sounds like most people on POF live in a community full of convicts and all aorund jerks. | |
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| It's flirting when he's hot and sexual harassement when he's not - What do you think
Posted: 3/20/2005 5:14:24 AM | there is a difference between flirting and sexual harrassment, and most women and men are smart enough to know the difference. flirting isn't offensive, no matter how attractive or not attractive the man is, but if he doesn't take no for an answer, or is rude or suggestive about it, then it's harrassment. everyone has their own idea about what's rude or what qualifies as going too far, so it's best not to even go there if you don't know the person and their tolerances.
i find the dismissive attitude of the op annoying. if you didn't mean it this way, then correct me, but it seems like you are saying that any time a man is accused of sexual harrassment, it's just harmless flirting, and that women are being over-sensitive. that is sometimes the case, but all claims should be investigated and dealt with fairly.
i have run into that crap in my job, where one of the (married!?!)officers decided to hit on me, and when he didn't get the response he was looking for, proceeded to cause problems for me. there's no point in reporting it, as the sh*twill only get worse if i do, and nothing will happen to the offending officer. by the way, i did nothing to encourage him or make him think that i would welcome his advances, and had to turn him down several times before he quit asking. had to get downright rude about it. i'm far from being a prude, and can handle the flirting and some occasional horseplay from people i know, but there is a line that shouldn't be crossed without an invitation. | |
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