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 Author Thread: police tasers
 [ JAY ]

Joined: 4/16/2006
Msg: 1
police tasers
Posted: 10/17/2006 8:29:53 PM
saw a documentary last nite about a man who was high on crack and got shot by police with a taser and died...what are everyone's thoughts on this?

imo, it wasnt the police's fault he was high on crack...its unfortunate that that man's life came to this, that he went down the road of a crackhead and went on a rampage.... but there was no other way to stop him, other than shooting him...apparently something like 12 people so far have died from stun gun shots by police, i believe all were high on drugs...liberal bleeding hearts would say that that is reason enough to stop their use...what do u think?
 farmboy777

Joined: 6/7/2006
Msg: 2
police tasers
Posted: 10/17/2006 8:31:22 PM
I'm willing to bet the survival rate of being stunned is still greater than being shot with a service revolver!
 Rodzores

Joined: 7/21/2005
Msg: 3
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police tasers
Posted: 10/17/2006 8:40:00 PM
Agreed, much better than gun's, the odds of being killed with a taser must still be pretty low, and i mean really if the cops yell freeze and you don't run, they wont hit you with anything! Maybe a cause of concern to reavaluate them, but i don't think that its any reason to stop their use, maybe crackheads should learn what STOP means! oh wait, if they knew that they wouldn't be on the crack, hmm more thought is required!
 edmguy

Joined: 4/30/2006
Msg: 4
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police tasers
Posted: 10/17/2006 8:42:42 PM
did I see the words 'bleeding heart liberals'???? ta da! I think police should trained to be able to handle themselves as they used to be... whats wrong with the good old billy club? or how about keeping standards for physically fit police instead of lowering them to be more politicaly correct? how bout pepper spray? sure it doesnt work all the time but it doesnt kill when it doesnt work. crack does not make anyone obtain super human strength...
tasers on the other hand... make cops lazy and dangerous...
 Cool Hand

Joined: 3/10/2005
Msg: 5
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police tasers
Posted: 10/17/2006 8:49:33 PM
I used to work as a buyer for a distributor for Tasers.I have taken a couple of voluntary hits in exchange for a nice Taser golf shirt. From what I have seen the company does never ending testing on the effects it has on people in differents states of drunkiness etc. I never did have access to the reports but they are still selling loads of these unit as it is a far "less lethal" method of restraining of violent offender. In the US they can be sold to anyone for personal protection.

There are some interesting videos on how it works and good videos of them in action on the Taser site ....
www.taser.com
 sportster/06

Joined: 7/14/2006
Msg: 6
police tasers
Posted: 10/17/2006 9:12:42 PM
oooooo...naaaastieeee...that'z gonna leave a mark...

just say no!...get drugs off the streets.

police must police...who will police if the police don't police....
 tamm73

Joined: 9/19/2006
Msg: 7
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police tasers
Posted: 10/17/2006 9:19:59 PM
Being a victim of a violent crime I was saved by a taser. Unfortunately because my attacker was holding me at the time I also got tasered....damn thing hurts...but it did save my life as well as the attackers. Why don't they do more studies about amount of lives saved? Besides if these guys quit doing the crimes would it really be an issue?
 Islandsugar

Joined: 1/1/2006
Msg: 8
police tasers
Posted: 10/17/2006 9:23:48 PM
ok so... a young man with a heart problem... steals some food for his family...and runs when he knows hes caught... then is chased by police.. they taser him... he dies....


How does THAT sound?

just my .02..... think outside the box... consider the world around you!
 edmguy

Joined: 4/30/2006
Msg: 9
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police tasers
Posted: 10/17/2006 9:26:05 PM
The same studies and stats are done/kept about the lives 'saved' or lost... how bout we just shoot them all anyway? if they quit doing crimes it wouldnt be an issue...
no one here is defending criminals... but should the penalty for a guy that is too stoned to hold still be death?
 Bossman351

Joined: 4/27/2006
Msg: 10
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police tasers
Posted: 10/17/2006 9:28:22 PM
Why don't they do more studies about amount of lives saved?


Because then the bleeding hearts would have nothing to cry about.

Bleading heart: "What do you mean tasers saved 500 lives because a gun wasn't used... hogwash... my crackhead friend was killed by a taser while he was all jacked up and his heart was already at 140bpm."

--edit... Hypothetical friend
 Senadin

Joined: 6/20/2006
Msg: 11
police tasers
Posted: 10/17/2006 9:30:54 PM
Not like the cops wanted to kill him, so it's not like the cop was judge, jury and executer.

If the guy had a weak heart, who knows? He was stone, well would his heart rate drop? then he goes and run, heart rate goes up fast...then you get tazed and well it jump start the heart and he stop dead, litterally.


It's sad but the benefits outweight the bad imho.
 tamm73

Joined: 9/19/2006
Msg: 12
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police tasers
Posted: 10/17/2006 9:31:39 PM

how bout pepper spray? sure it doesnt work all the time but it doesnt kill when it doesnt work. crack does not make anyone obtain super human strength...


Okay but when the guys got a weapon and a hostage...pepper spray isnt gonna do shit..a bullet has a chance of hitting hostage but a taser makes him unable to move so they can disarm him and free hostage. Crack may not give them super human strength but the adrenaline during a high stress situation like this does. It took four taser shots and four cops to get this guy in custody (and they were some really well built guys).
 edmguy

Joined: 4/30/2006
Msg: 13
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police tasers
Posted: 10/17/2006 9:31:41 PM
you actually knew his heart rate minutes before his demise? may I ask how?
 edmguy

Joined: 4/30/2006
Msg: 14
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police tasers
Posted: 10/17/2006 9:37:25 PM
"Okay but when the guys got a weapon and a hostage...pepper spray isnt gonna do shit..a bullet has a chance of hitting hostage but a taser makes him unable to move so they can disarm him and free hostage. Crack may not give them super human strength but the adrenaline during a high stress situation like this does. It took four taser shots and four cops to get this guy in custody (and they were some really well built guys). "

first off... I wasnt commenting on your speciffic situation.
second... such a situation is extremely rare.
third... crack has nothing to do with adrenaline. and to say it took 4 taser 'shots' and four 'well built cops'? i dunno... if the first 'shot' didnt work then why keep doing it? they have other options...
fourth... if four 'well built cops' could not restrain one crack head then they seriously need some training.
 veintapperiam

Joined: 10/7/2005
Msg: 15
police tasers
Posted: 10/17/2006 9:40:34 PM

Deaths associated with stun-gun use
Supporters say that stun guns are a safer alternative to devices such as firearms. Taser brand of stun guns were originally marketed as "non-lethal" devices. However, based on the judgements of the SEC, this has had to be amended as "less-lethal" devices.[5]

Between September 1999 and October 2004, there were 73 cases of deaths of subjects soon after having been shocked using Tasers. Of these cases:

In 8 cases, medical examiners said Tasers were a cause or a contributing factor or could not be ruled out as a cause of death.
In 18 cases coroners and other officials stated that Tasers were not a factor.
In most of the 73 cases, drugs including cocaine, methamphetamine, and PCP were concluded to be the major factor leading to death.
In many cases pre-existing cardiovascular conditions or other medical conditions were stated to be a factor.
Several deaths occurred as a result of injuries sustained in struggles. In a few of these cases head injury due to falling after being shocked contributed to later death.
These incidents form a very small percentage of many tens of thousands of operational uses of tasers.[6]

Various lawsuits against the manufacturers and users of stun guns are pending, but many court judgements have dismissed lawsuits by finding evidence of preexisting conditions, ranging from excited delirium (caused by a subject's interaction with high levels of drug-use) which may be a factor before cardiac arrest, and preexisting osteoarthritis which may make bone fracture more likely when the device is used on the subject.

Critics argue that although the medical conditions or illegal drug-taking of some of these casualties, may have been the proximate cause, the use of the taser may have significantly heightened the risk of death for those suspects in an at-risk category. Therefore, they argue, this suggests that tasers and other electroshock weapons may be too dangerous to use on people with certain medical conditions. Furthermore, since police officers will typically not know about a person's medical conditions or the contents of his/her bloodstream, this entails a risk of death with virtually any suspect.

Supporters say that stun guns and tasers are more effective than any other means including pepper-spray (an eye irritant/breathing irritant), batons (and other conventional ways of inflicting pain), hand-to-hand combat (i.e. wrestling a subject to the ground), or even hand guns, at bringing a subject down to the ground with a minimum physical exertion, and with a minimum of potential for injury. Stun-guns have a direct link to reduced injury from use of physical force, and are attributed to saving human lives by use as an alternative to the use of firearms to subdue violent or out-of-control subjects. However, critics charge that police officers who are risk-averse will also resort to tasers in situations where previously they would have used more conventional, less "extreme" techniques, such as trying to reason with a cornered suspect. from Wikipedia.org



no one here is defending criminals... but should the penalty for a guy that is too stoned to hold still be death?

In that same light... should the penalty for the officer trying to arrest a criminal who's too stoned to hold still also be death?? Consider that upwards of 1,500 officers are killed each year in the U.S. and Canada... I say give them what they need to do their job safely & effectively.
Until you've ridden the downtown streets in a busy city with the men in blue, you have no idea what they're truly faced with on a day to day basis.
 Senadin

Joined: 6/20/2006
Msg: 16
police tasers
Posted: 10/17/2006 9:47:43 PM
To Edm guy,


No i do not know the guy's heart rate but i know enough about biology to say that running speed up your heart, drug use depending on the drug will either increase it or decrease it. Getting tazed will give you a huge boost to your heart rate.


When your heart goes way up then way down then back WAY WAY up, guess what can happen? Considering the few deaths i say it's a viable option.


How about the safety of the officers here? Ever thought about that too?
 edmguy

Joined: 4/30/2006
Msg: 17
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police tasers
Posted: 10/17/2006 9:48:33 PM
I ride the downtown streets of the city everyday... about 300 kms a day... mostly downtown... I have no tools to defend myself against the very same thing the police see...

To respond to your idea about 1500 officers killed each year in the U.S and Canada... I cant respond... I live in Canada... Frankly I'm surprized it isnt more combined.

I would like to ask though... how many of those lives would have been saved by the use of a taser? I'd be willing to guess that the corralation would be negligable..
 edmguy

Joined: 4/30/2006
Msg: 18
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police tasers
Posted: 10/17/2006 9:51:02 PM
To sen.

Im not trying to defend criminals over police. I even dated a female officer on the EPS for a year or so... and still... I dont wish her dead...
 [ JAY ]

Joined: 4/16/2006
Msg: 19
police tasers
Posted: 10/17/2006 10:05:35 PM
.
 [ JAY ]

Joined: 4/16/2006
Msg: 20
police tasers
Posted: 10/17/2006 10:05:53 PM
to islandsugar in particular....how bout we just make a damn fuking law where if the police see u and yell stop and you dont stop...they tazer the fuk out of you...if you run it means your guilty...hows that for thinking outside the box...and if u have a heart condition...well dammit, you shouldnt be so fuking stupid to run away if the cops have taser guns now should u?


 edmguy

Joined: 4/30/2006
Msg: 21
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police tasers
Posted: 10/17/2006 10:10:38 PM
That wouldnt work so well with people here on vacation that dont speak english... but then... hey... they would just be collateral damage...

but hey.. lets make it fair! Gimme a taser to defend myself from cops!
 [ JAY ]

Joined: 4/16/2006
Msg: 22
police tasers
Posted: 10/17/2006 10:12:48 PM
what kind of country would u have to come from where a cop yelling and pointing a gun at you and yelling something would make you want to run away faster?!?!

if u come to canada and commit a crime and you see uniformed people pointing a gun at you and yelling something and u run away faster...u damn well deserve to get shot
 veintapperiam

Joined: 10/7/2005
Msg: 23
police tasers
Posted: 10/17/2006 10:15:56 PM
I ride the downtown streets of the city everyday... about 300 kms a day... mostly downtown... I have no tools to defend myself against the very same thing the police see...

I don't argue you probably SEE some of the same things our city's finest do. However you AREN'T responsible for getting in there & breaking up fights, arresting drug dealers, chasing bad guys, or stopping people for traffic violations only to find an irate, violent person behind the wheel. Are you?

As for lives saved... are you talking officers, or criminals? I don't have exact numbers for either, but a study done in Florida showed an 86% decrease in arrest/detainment related injuries after the entire force was given tasers. What's this about the numbers being "negligible"? I'm pretty certain you wouldn't consider it "negligible" if it was the EPS officer who's life was saved by using her taser on a bad guy.

As for criminals? A study I've just read states that the number of lives saved with taser implementation is close to 7,000 in the past 5 years. If even 100 people died as a result of being tasered, that's still only a 1:700 chance of death somehow related to being tasered.

Here's the study link: http://www.taser.com/documents/Potomac%20Inst%20Rpt%203%2005.pdf

Did you know you have a 1:50 chance of dying if the airbags deploy in your vehicle? I'd rather be tasered!
 edmguy

Joined: 4/30/2006
Msg: 24
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police tasers
Posted: 10/17/2006 10:18:13 PM
who said anything about drawing a gun? police are trained to use the taser BEFORE pulling a gun. and cripes... not all countries have police that are "less lethal" than ours... sometimes the police are more to worry about than the criminals to tourists.. you should travel more jay.

and you seriously think that the police should be allowed to be judge, juror and executioner? given the limited amount of education that is required to become a cop?
 [ JAY ]

Joined: 4/16/2006
Msg: 25
police tasers
Posted: 10/17/2006 10:19:07 PM
edmguy just likes to argue..he knows hes way out to lunch on this one


so for the sake of the poor vacationers who come to canada and are so friggen dumb and dont know what it means when a cop points a gun/taser at them and yells "Stop!"...we should just get rid of these things right?
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