| did women kill chivalry? what do we need to do to bring it back?
Posted: 10/21/2006 7:19:32 PM | | i ve heard this more than once, men say if chivalry is dead, women killed it, yes, i heard about the feminists movements, the equal rights, but its in such a time now, the roles reversal/merging, despite having helped to build the society after WW2, people are getting less happy and more dis-satisfied. poems are fading out, and so are love songs, and even with music the lyrics these days are either pronos or angry or both. i ve cried over it but i want to do something more than just crying, i want a gentleman, and so do my girlfriends, and i think many other women also do, so gentlemen, what do women need to do to bring back chivalry? | |
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| did women kill chivalry? what do we need to do to bring it back?
Posted: 10/21/2006 7:31:12 PM | Act like as LADY deserving of such gentlemen perhaps?
You are by no means alone here in Canada they actually started a group to counter feminist groups (I thiink it is called REAL women, ,the real being an acronym for what I don't recall)
They take the stance that gender roles are NOT wrong, only forcing someone into a rol;e they don't wish is. And this makes alot of sense, knowing what is expected is soooo much easier, but it won't work for everyone. | |
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| did women kill chivalry? what do we need to do to bring it back?
Posted: 10/21/2006 7:54:21 PM |
i ve cried over it but i want to do something more than just crying, i want a gentleman, and so do my girlfriends, and i think many other women also do, so gentlemen, what do women need to do to bring back chivalry?
A really good start would be to allow us to be men.
We want to have our space... we want a space that is male only. We want to be appreciated for the lawns we mow, the toilets we fix, the cars we look after.
We'd like to hear that the extra hours we spend at the office, at work, or goofin' with kids is recognised rather than critisized.
We are raised to make money. We are told that that is our main function in life. Because I don't do romantic things for you 24/7 doesn't mean I don't love you. The oil I changed today was an act of love.
If I say I'm going fishing with the guys, allow me to do that without questioning it. That's what I'm doing. I'm not going to a night club to dance with women. I don't like dancing. I will dance with you because I feel obligated, not because I like it.
Let me change diapers the way I want to do it. If I want to play "guns" with my kids, shut up about it. I'd rather they learn about the proper way to handle a firearm than from some kid who found his dad's gun case key. Because I do things differently as a father than you do as a mother doesn't make my way of doing things wrong.
If I want to watch sports, go for cheese cake and coffee with your girl friends. Don't start the frigging Hoover to piss me off just because you think you are more important.
Accept things I do without criticism.
Accept the fact that I really do have all of the same emotions that you do, I just happen to express them in different ways.
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| did women kill chivalry? what do we need to do to bring it back?
Posted: 10/21/2006 8:07:25 PM | | All it took for chivalry to die was for people to lose respect for themselves and for others. While chivalry might be out of the question for a lot of people these days, most could benefit from a good dose of manners. Where's Miss Manners when we need her most? | |
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| did women kill chivalry? what do we need to do to bring it back?
Posted: 10/21/2006 8:13:42 PM | Recognizing that this is the "Ask A Guy" forum, I just wanted to politely offer an opinion from the female perspective.
If you offer appreciation and manners, you're much more apt to receive chivalry. If all you offer is expectation, you may find yourself greatly disappointed.
Add in a dose of respect and not only may you find your gentleman, you'll find a lot more smiles in your day to day life. | |
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| did women kill chivalry? what do we need to do to bring it back?
Posted: 10/21/2006 8:20:34 PM | What you are asking for is the nice guy. The problem is that men's roles have changed over the years. Women no longer require men to be providers or protecters. Men have no idea what to do anymore. But they don't know that a woman will drop everything for a man that knows how to seduce a woman....I don't mean this in a bad way. This is in a very good way. Women associate nice with weak. They say that they want nice but thier unconscious minds will not let a nice guy near them long enough. When a guy is too nice too soon the b!%&h shield goes up and it is on to the next piece of sausage. Women do not give it a second thought. Women are hardwired to replicate only with men of higher value than themselves and men that are higher value than other men that she has come in contact with. Our goals are to survive and replicate. If there is a fear of our replication partner to be weak then it is.......exactly........on to the next piece of sausage. Try next time a regular guy gives you a compliment.....actually speaking with him and getting to know him. You may be surprised at the type of chivalry you will receive....you may need to deal with the wuss thing in the future but you will get mr. nice guy and he will indeed be nice.....don't expect him to make the first move with you because he has been rejected his entire life and has little to no confidence with women due to that. Nuff said. Want more. You know what to do.
D Rock
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| did women kill chivalry? what do we need to do to bring it back?
Posted: 10/21/2006 8:31:16 PM |
to swifttone on msg3, its all very reasonable and i guess thats pretty much the norms? what else? is that all?
Are you kidding? That's not nearly the end of the list...
mesimply has it right:
If you offer appreciation and manners, you're much more apt to receive chivalry. If all you offer is expectation, you may find yourself greatly disappointed.
Add in a dose of respect and not only may you find your gentleman, you'll find a lot more smiles in your day to day life.
As a man, I'm taught that you, as a woman, are sacred. I will protect you in any way I can. I will spend every last penny I have to make you happy. I will buy any house YOU want. I don't understand why the bathroom is so important, but I'm going to buy the castle that has the best bathroom for you.
These things, for the most part, mean nothing to me.
I want my motorcycle, my boat, the 1964 Impala convertible with all the chrome.
I want that one weekend a year that I get to go and get pissed and stoned with my buddies.
I want to know that the hamburger I cooked on the BBQ last weekend was, in fact, edible. You know that quarter of beef in the freezer? Odds are, I paid for it.
If I choose to wear the same pair of jeans this week, shut the EFF up about it. Laundry gets done when it needs to be done. I don't care if you do my laundry. I can do it myself when I want to do it. Shut up about it.
... same with washing or painting the friggin' walls.
I DON"T CARE ABOUT THAT CRAP!
I will move whatever worlds need to be moved for you. I will break every frickin' fingernail I have to do it....
.... just shut up and say thanks every once in a while.
.. and, there is more....
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| did women kill chivalry? what do we need to do to bring it back?
Posted: 10/21/2006 8:39:07 PM | | Sadly the many years I tried to do chivalry it always gave the women the image that I was desperate or weak. I have stopped and wish I didnt have to but its a fact of the matter that chivalry has gotten me nowhere. Every now and then I will do the opening the door for her or pull out the char but ine a very strict moderation, I just wish I coudl do it all the time. | |
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| did women kill chivalry? what do we need to do to bring it back?
Posted: 10/21/2006 8:39:30 PM | I would agree!
Manners are the forgotten and if you expect a male to be kind show appreciation or attempt to be chivalrous it comes with women backing off.
I agree that "women" expect to much and an expression of kindness goes along way...
And yes it is rude to turn the Hoover on during the game...! I'd rather watch it | |
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| did women kill chivalry? what do we need to do to bring it back?
Posted: 10/21/2006 8:56:16 PM | Women associate nice with weak. They say that they want nice but thier unconscious minds will not let a nice guy near them long enough. When a guy is too nice too soon the b!%&h shield goes up and it is on to the next piece of sausage. Women do not give it a second thought. Women are hardwired to replicate only with men of higher value than themselves and men that are higher value than other men that she has come in contact with.
nice=weak? i can see where youre coming from, sometimes when i try to be polite and remain polite, especially in the face of the rude, it does seems to weaken my stance, but this can be fixed with a little logics and quick wits, without sinking your level, so i would say this is one of the most commonly confused thing that can be distinguished if youre willing.
too nice too soon=alarm? i m not exactly sure what this is supposed to mean, but for a man who wants too much too soon, i agree thats definitely an alarm, like if he wants to know everything about you from birth to this breathing minute, claiming that youre his girlfriend when you had never agreed so, wants to marry you on the second date, i will run away!
Women no longer require men to be providers or protecters.
i require my man to be provider and protecter, if it sounds needy or dated to some, so what? this is what i want and i m not ashamed to admit it! | |
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Anno41
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Joined: 10/2/2006
Msg: 15 | |
| did women kill chivalry? what do we need to do to bring it back?
Posted: 10/21/2006 10:40:22 PM | | What exactly is meant by the word "chivalry"? I guess I always thought it was about common courtesy and manners. Opening doors for someone comes to mind here. I guess I always figure that the first one to the door opens the damn thing for whomever is behind them. WTF? What is all this blame on the feminist movement? Why has feminism become such a dirty word? Does anyone really know what it means? I for one have never believed that being pro-woman necessitates being anti-man. Do men really want women to be weak and helpless? Is that what today's woman wants for herself? I don't know what to think about the man as protector. I think we all instinctively try to protect those we love. Mothers protect their children don't they? If when speaking of chivalry, you are speaking of a knight in shining armor, well that is just a bunch of crap. He has never existed except in fairy tales. | |
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| did women kill chivalry? what do we need to do to bring it back?
Posted: 10/21/2006 11:33:49 PM | Well what happens is 'todays' woman snarls at you for opening a door for her, loudly telling you she can do it herself, and making you look like some sort of stalker/creep to all onlookers.
And since you can't tell by looking at a woman if she is going to react like that, it's just better to hang back a few paces and let her open the door herself.
you know whats funny though? As a guy, if I hold a door open for a guy walking in behind me, I'll get a nod or a thanks. Everytime. Hold it open for a woman and you have no idea what is going to happen next.
Heh I have a perfect example. Where I work, there is a set of doors, than a breezeway, then another set of doors. I can't tell you how many times I have held open the outer doors for a woman. She walks in front of me, then she opens the inner door JUST enough for her body to pass through, so it closes in my face. When guys walk in first, they will use their hand to shove the door open wide as they pass through it so the next guy can pass through.
When I think back about it, a lot of men have better manners than women, and the men appreciate it more.
of course in a relationship it's different, but if we are talking about how to treat people in public, the women just yell at you for doing nice things. thats a generalization, i know. | |
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e-wok
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Joined: 9/25/2006
Msg: 17 | |
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| did women kill chivalry? what do we need to do to bring it back?
Posted: 10/22/2006 4:37:43 AM | Women didn't kill chivalry, a few militant feminazis did.
It's almost like a shell game. As soon as you think you know what to do, somebody tells you to try again. We don't know what our role is today when it comes to courting a woman. Should I pull out her chair for her ? (she might get offended although that's not likely. More likely is that she might feel embarassed by it...so scratch that) Should I pay for the date ? No, because if I try to do that she'll tell me that she doesn't want to feel like she's obligated to do something for me. Should I hold open her door ? Sure I guess although she looks pretty healthy...she might give me a tongue lashing for assuming that she can't even close her own car door. I mean, it's not that there aren't women who appreciate this stuff it's that we don't know who they are. Moreover, with so much rhetoric about how we're not "needed" by today's modern woman, well, "...fine then...get the damned door yourself" is the attitude we're developing. (no, I don't mean that that's something I say or do , it's simply meant to convey the sentiment) And frankly, we're tired of hearing that sort of thing. If we're not needed at all then we simply take the next step and assume we're not wanted either. As a woman OP you probably haven't noticed but I'm sure you've heard the complaint from men that there are a brand new set of double standards. We're slandered by a brand new set of stereotypes that basically make a mockery of us and function as a means of emasculation.
With all of that said, chivalry DOES live but it's more or less being held in check by hostile propaganda and irrational ideology. We simply want to be able to express it to you ladies. We know that most women want us to as well. I don't want to use your question OP as a platform to come up with a list of complaints about the opposite sex. I can't pretend I'm not interested in women and I seriously doubt I'll ever be able to "switch teams". lol So for that reason alone, I'm holding out hope that some day in the nearer future we'll be able to assume our more natural role and act on our inherent inclinations when it comes to the fairer sex.
When it comes to fixing the problem, well, it's going to require the women to do that really. It means you're going to have to start defending us when we're not around to do it ourselves. Right now we don't hear many women with sway extolling the virtues of the classic man. We always hear about how we're not doing enough to please the ladies and while this may or may not be true, what we definitely never hear is anybody saying anything about what a woman can do for her man. We're simple creatures (lol...as I'm sure you know) but we do still have some basic emotional needs. Tell us we're appreciated. Basically, just let us be men as our fathers and grandfathers were. Most of us want nothing more than to find a woman to protect and care for. Whether she actually needs this or not is somewhat academic...as long as that's the impression we're labouring under, we're good to go.
We don't go to war , fight and die, work sixteen hours a day hauling sacks of grain around , go up twenty floors and balance on top of steel beams so that we can spend a few bucks getting drunk with each other watching the game. We do this to either attract you or to keep you. Sounds like Hallmark sap, I know but it's true for the vast majority of men. When you hear the anti-male rantings from certain quarters and the gender warriors talking about how we men need to change, speak up and tell them that yeah, we do : we need to be allowed to change back into classic men with virtue, honour, a sense of direction ,...the whole kit and kaboodle. Don't let them tell you how we need to be more like they say we need to be...they know as much about what it means to be men as men know about what it means to be women. Basically, if you tell them to just shut the hell up and stop trying to change men and boys into women and girls respectively , you'll get your chivalry back. Hell, go to any NOW rally and speak up like this...the NOW supporters will hate you of course but man, will you ever get alot of attention from any straight males within earshot. lol | |
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| did women kill chivalry? what do we need to do to bring it back?
Posted: 10/22/2006 6:15:43 AM | | Yes, Women killed and buried Chivallry. Times changed as Women are getting top jobs in the work place, Political correctness is running rampant and the Macho, Chivallrous guy is getting kicked to the curb. Buying a woman flowers? Oh, what does he want? Must be after sex! And the Guy is made to feel like a creep! Ladies Night at the bar, or any other event where Guys have to pay and Ladies get in free, need I say more? Sorry Ladies you can't suck and blow at the same time. Now we are seeing Ladies not even saying thank you when a Guy opens the door for them. Life isn't perfect, and I don't know what the answer is but Guys are living in a state of fear as the Male domain is slowly disappearing. | |
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| did women kill chivalry? what do we need to do to bring it back?
Posted: 10/22/2006 6:43:55 AM | Chivalry died in the 60's when women started getting pissed at men for doing things like holding the door for them, complimenting them on thier looks and a few other things. While I did not live through this era I have heard from several reliable sources tales like I have stated. It also has alot to do in my opinion with women romaticising the "bad boy" image. And even when that starts to head south hanging on to someone that is clearly no good. We as men see that approach working for other men so we try to immitate or duplicate whatever works. I have no idea how chivalry will be resurected if indeed it will be. But I do have a feeling that women will play the biggest part if it is to come back.
harvey | |
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