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| Dell Hell
Posted: 12/3/2006 7:43:08 PM | Anyone else have problems with Dell? I'm referring specifically to having the sales person convince you to become a Perferred Dell Customer (should have known better) when you had stated you were going to be paying in full by credit card or cheque and you don't want to go on a monthly plan - then to find out you are put on a monthly payment plan with your first payment coming out of your account before Dell would receive the full payment (money order) because it takes them time to get the check (sent to a PO Box) and a month to process it. I feel totally taken advantage of because I was not given all the details of becoming a Perferred Customer - the most important being that I would be on a monthly payment plan unless I could pay off the whole amount in a unreasonble time frame. Funny too how the guy tells me I could pay by credit card (not being a perferred customer) but when you are one you can only pay by certified check from the bank and THAT'S IT and the payment has to be sent like the day after you purchase the system (NOT TOLD TO ME BY SALES GUY he said I have up to 25 days to pay it!!!) This is what Dell Financial told me - I'm furious! I should have asked questions here before buying anything - especially after reading about warranties as I payed extra for a 3 year warranty - good lessons here to be learned. Do your homework before buying from anywhere. | |
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Diogi
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Joined: 10/1/2006
Msg: 2 | |
| Dell Hell
Posted: 12/3/2006 7:50:25 PM | Can't you take it back!? Dell are terrible PC's and there customer support is crap! If you don't sign on to their crap your support call gets routed directly to India!
If you can take it back I would suggest you go to you local non-franchised computer store and have them build you a tower from scratch! | |
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| Dell Hell
Posted: 12/3/2006 8:53:15 PM | Dell's are good for none computer people. I own one, and recommend them to my family members. The simple reason is for the warranty. It is true you end up with someone in India for their customer support, but you can literally fry your video card and they'll send you a new one... I know because I overclocked the shit out've mine just to get it replaced.
We've always done the payment plan route though, so I can understand your frustration. It is true though, if you find an honest ( and this is rare ) computer store to do business with, you can save money building it from scratch. But then you'll only get the warranty given by the parts manufacturer.
Its like buying a car. Do your homework, and know what you're getting. Warranties are only as good as the company who backs them, and Dell's not going anywheres. | |
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| Dell Hell
Posted: 12/3/2006 9:35:35 PM | Allow me to be the first then, to say something good about Dell.
First off, if you are buying a desktop computer from Dell, of course they are bad. And your an idiot for doing so. Go build your own damn computer!  Heh. Seriously, any manufacturer (with the exception of smaller companies) suck ass when it comes to desktop. And you can almost always do better building your own. Dont know how? Learn. Cant be bothered? Tough, dont complain.
Now, thats out of the way. Laptops. Personally, Dell is THE company, and nothing else comes close. Toshiba? Acer? Alienware? Eurocom? etc? Garbage.
Im the proud owner of an Inspiron 6000 laptop I purchased through a Shopping Channel deal last year in August. For 1800 bucks, I got the laptop, backpack, printer, a ton of software (sure, I pirate most of my software so I didnt care), but the nice part of it was a 300 dollar 3-year complete care warranty. Wanna buy a laptop? You'd be a fool not to get this warranty. And as far as I know, Dell is the only one to offer it. What does it do? It covers my laptop for 3 years from any kind of damage. Accidental, intentional, murder weapon.. you name it. I've used and abused my laptop for a year and a half, and anytime something broke, I call Dell, and they send me the parts. Now, since Im a Dell Authorized customer, they dont even bother to troubleshoot. I tell them "Hi, I need a new hard drive" and they simply say "Its on it's way". Easy as 1-2-3.
Ok example. Im on vacation, in Port Hawkesbury, Nova Scotia. I got pissed off at Windows (because it's Windows) and I threw my laptop in the back of the plane (a 4-seater Cessna172 that I was flying). I broke the touchpad. When I landed, got a place to stay, I called up Dell. At the time I was not Dell Authorized, so the tech troubleshooted and so on. After about an hour on the phone, I was done. I wasnt sending the laptop in for repair, and neither was someone comming to do it for me. They were sending me the part for me to fix. Just like I wanted. That way, I dont loose the laptop for a week. Now, Im in Port Hawkesbury for 2 days, it takes 3 days to ship. So I had Dell mail the part to the Purolator Depot in Halifax, NS where I would go pick it up. And so I did. Try and get that kind of customer support from anyone else!
Since I've had the laptop, I've gotten the following from the warranty:
2 new hard drives (the second, was an 80GB instead of a 60GB because they ran out of 60s!!, free!)
a new power cord
2 new palmrests
1 new touchpad
1 new keyboard
a new motherboard
a new screen
new screws and rubber feet
All that alone is worth nearly 2000 bucks! And I still have a year and a half on my warranty. Do note, with the exception of the power cord, all replacements were due to my "negligence" in spite of having such a fantastic warranty. The power cord? My cat chewed it..
Ok, what about other companies? Acer? My brother got an Acer from CompuSmart. Now, somethings wrong with the laptop. Ok, contact Acer. What does Acer say? Politely.. F%&k off and go talk to CompuSmart. What does CompuSmart say? Its an Acer laptop, talk to Acer. Well, thats no good.
Toshiba? Two people in my program at college have Toshibas. First guy, the screen started getting dark after about a year, and the CD-RW wouldnt burn anymore. Ok, everything fails after a while. Oh wait, you cant call Toshiba. Theres no such thing.. Oops. Ok, lets go find a store downtown that is Toshiba-Authorized, and have them do the repair. Hmm, a week's gone by. Call them up? "Oh we havent looked at it yet". Well, gee thanks. A few days later, my friend gets a call. "Ok, so we've looked at it, and we'll replace the screen, but your CD-RW is fine. So you have to call Toshiba's hotline and get a work order number and get back to us". wtf? That was about 2 weeks ago. My friend's laptop still isnt fixed.. Oh he got the laptop back a few days after that. The screen got replaced, the CD-RW was indeed broken, and to top it off, the plastic around his screen was cracked and broken. Good work guys! So he sent it back for the CD drive.. about 2 weeks ago. And it's still in the shop. They are waiting for Toshiba to get to them (the shop) a work order.
Ok, friend number 2. Old huge laptop. Sent in to Audiotronic for maintenance before the warranty ends. They said the cleanned it out. They forgot to mention they broke the plastic in three different places, one of the cracks being about 4 inches long... They also didnt really clean it, considering I took out about 2 year's worth of dust.. and cheetos crums (ok not really) out of his fans and heatsinks. I applaud Toshiba-authorized once again!
Eurocom? Well, got a buddy that owns one. His palm rest faded and warped because of the heat from the CPU. Alienware? Havent met anyone that owns one. We dont like to pay for overpriced fancy stuff. But if thats your case, I'd like a new pair of shoes if you dont mind, Im a size 10 1/2 wide. Thanks.
So, to sum up, what kind of service do you want? I can get you references if you dont believe my story. Sure enough, I've converted nearly a dozen people over to Dell for laptops.
PS: the best way to buy from Dell is through their website. Because if you get some CS rep to bully you into changing YOUR payment plan.. either you need a backbone, or you need to slap-a-hoe lol.
With that, Im off to bed. | |
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| Dell Hell
Posted: 12/4/2006 3:06:51 AM | rfcpilot, every word you wrote is true. I worked as a helpdesk guy for 8 years and of course we dealt with them all computers makers. you want to talk about bad service, dell won't even be on the list.
you should start with compaq ( remember that one ). new laptop and the modem can't even connect. you get a call from a customer and you're supposed to troubleshoot the problem and fix it except we could not fix something that was wrong because of a defective drriver. we had to fight with them for more than a year to come up with a new driver. in the meantime, the company I worked for sent external modems to its customer...
with dell ( we were all certified by dell as we had to be )
hello, I need a new modem for so and so
It's coming.........
bye
I have been wishing for my 733 Mhz dell desktop to break down so that my wife can let me buy a new one.......the darn thing does not want to break and I don't want to help it break down.......... had it for more than 5 years.
Welcome to Dell's heaven. | |
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| Dell Hell
Posted: 12/4/2006 5:17:28 AM | I see we have a blog damning Dell for everyting and it was nice to see a ray of sunshine when rfcpilot explained in detail about the Complete Care Warranty that is on his laptop, as a former Dell Phone Agent I would like to say that most of what he said was true, Dell will replace pretty much anything on a Complete Care Warranty. The only thing that he didn't mention and I am assuming that he does know is the wording that you use while on the phone with the agent. rfcpilot didn't metion that if you tell them that you got mad and throw it to the back of your four seater airplane you will not get any service at all, the complete care warranty is only there for any and I will repeat any mistaken damage to the computer, not including anything that would have been covered either by your house insurance or car insurance. Dell will not replace if it is stole, your house burns down, or a tornado moves it to kansis. Saying this, if you are shaving, watching a movie on it and drinking to much and it falls into the sink and frys, guess what, that was a mistake. getting made and throwing it, that wasn't a mistake, and I am sure that rfcpilot used the correct wording to ensure he got what he needed. Good on him, I would have too.
I do know how to build computers, but I also have a dell desktop, and yes, I'm a smart one and I got the three year complete Care warranty. why not, as it was said, replacement parts can be expensive and it is not if it is going to break down, it is more when is it going to break down.
As for the Sales ppl at dell, I will agree they are all asses, well most are, do your research, know what you want, just because they sound nice on the phone and seem to know what they are talking about, they don't, just like a used car sales man, really if he says this car is great on gas, great ride for long trips and is the size of a tank, really does he own one, or is he just trying to make the sale, I will let you answer that.
any ways, that is my two cents.
enjoy
Wixnot | |
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| Dell Hell
Posted: 12/4/2006 5:42:16 AM | Yea they've never asked me as to the cause of my calls  So I never bothered to surrender the information. Except for once, the power cord. The tech couldnt believe I was calling for that. So I explained I had a cat.. and cat like wires.
The only thing not covered by that warranty is the battery. Sadly, and mine died 3 months ago. Got a new one off eBay. Was cheaper. | |
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| Dell Hell
Posted: 12/4/2006 3:19:15 PM | I only buy dells.... and yes I buy a lot of them ... around 20 a year. And do BECAUSE of the support. As a gold level technical support member I call they come and replace what ever I said was wrong the next business day. No argueing, no "Go to start... click here..." BS and I don't even have to do the installation.
Yes they're have some problems recently... there was the notorious battery recall (had 2). And the motherboard capacitor issue.(effected 70 of my computers)... but when I called on that they not only replaced the defective ones but sent me a stock of mother boards free of charge, and THEN extended the motherboard warrentee another 12 months on every unit.
Now having said that.... I've argued for three hours about my home XPS..... because the "home" level support is in India. Finely I learned to say do you know what MSCE means? If they don't I demand they find me someone who does. | |
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| Dell Hell
Posted: 12/4/2006 5:14:38 PM | Ya you are right, the batterys and Monitors can carry their own warranties, it is one year, and the only exception to that is monitors if you is on the original order of the computer then it is covered by the computer warranty, if not then they take the serial number and enter it and it will give the date it was made, and it is one year after that, any tech that I have worked with usually will add a couple of months on that because hey, it could have sat around for a few months, normally not but anything is possible.
have fun all.
Later | |
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| Dell Heaven
Posted: 12/4/2006 5:27:28 PM | so maybe it's time to change the title of the thread since we all agree on the quality of the service Dell offers, minus 1 lonely voice. | |
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| Dell Heaven
Posted: 12/4/2006 5:56:28 PM | LOL..... hugs Epsi | |
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| Dell Heaven
Posted: 12/5/2006 7:35:09 AM | Well I been in the small computer bussiness for a while, about 1.5 years now. I would only build myself a computer. Last year I built myself a server class computer for around 1600CAD that, if I bought it from IBM would have cost me around 4000CAD. So fo desktops, definetly your best option is to go to a company that wont rip you off, and have it custom built with quality parts. Like asus, msi, etc. Just stay away from foxconn, nspire, and ecs, they are junk. Now that easily takes care of the desktop problem.
The laptop problem is entirely different. They can't really be custom built. I used to love IBM Thinkpads. They were sturdy as heck. I got an X40, and it was one of the last laptops to be manufactued by IBM. Now Lenovo took over their thinkpad line, and Im just grinding my teeth, and hoping they will keep up the quality IBM had. I never recommended anything but an IBM. But sadly I had to give in. Now HP laptops seem the second best to IBM. Im not sure about their replacement plans, but they have some smart design aspects, like Thinkpads do. Thinkpads now, including mine, come with an accelerometer for example, so if you drop it, it parks the harddrive head before impact, possibly saving your harddrive from damage. The built in light is awesome at night, and the IBM wireless utility that autmatically sets up my computer to use my proxy server when Im at home, and disables the proxy and connects to the campus network when Im at university. Its just little things like that, that make it awesome. Sorry I never seen Dell come up with anything like that. They just massproduce computers with the cheapest components available at the moment. As for the great warrantly plan... Id rather get something that doesn't break. | |
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| Dell Heaven
Posted: 12/5/2006 10:41:01 AM | hey there , well as people are saying all major companies that sell computers are crap,
i bought min from PCW, and i have never had a problem with it ,
i also built alot of the machine i use at the moment,
as for dell, they do look good, and cheap, but in all fairness you get what you pay for,
but in my experience , i would take the machine back and get your money back, and then go to a shop, and get a decent one where u know your money is good, | |
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| Dell Hell
Posted: 12/7/2006 12:00:47 PM | Acer's junk compared to Dell? No, they're both equally junk; the main difference is the tech support. I'd go with an IBM (well, now Lenovo, but the QA hasn't changed which is a plus) T-series over any other if I had to get a laptop. The customer service is also better than Dell's. In fact, Hewlett Packard and Compaq's (DO NOT buy a Compaq, though) tech support is better.
Being that I've actually physically worked with the machines, the thing I hate about Dell is that everything's proprietary. Need a new optical drive? Unless you have USB space, you gotta buy Dell's which is about 25 - 35 percent more than anyone else's.
Dell's also don't have the longevity of most other brands. I've seen IBM A Series (desktop replacement) outlast comparable Dell's on a very consistent basis.
I'm not so much trying to whore IBM (not that i really favour them; I'm not going to buy a laptop til I need one; my phone has a word processor in it already) as to point out that Dell is not good. The truth of it is, the parts in all machines today are fuggin' junk. | |
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| Dell Hell
Posted: 12/7/2006 7:34:54 PM | I was network admin in an office that was exclusivly dell. total headache. I bought 12 new machines once, all the same model, all the same specs. When they came there were 3 different types of motherboard, some with on board video 2 different types), 2 had video cards. Remember this company had an ongoing relationship with dell. pres wouldn't let me send them back. what crap.
Only good computer is a homebuilt or clone. buy decent quality parts and you have far less problems then with dell or compcrap or HP or ibm pcs. It's the old you get what you pay for. (except with computers it's the less money you spend the more problems you have.) | |
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| Dell Hell
Posted: 12/9/2006 6:23:00 AM | You get what you pay for is a bs statement.
Dell's are more expensive than most other brands these days, and the problem with Dell isn't just inconsistency; they have a really bad rep for packaging refurbished parts into what are allegedly brand-new PC's. If they pulled that crap with a laptop, they'd be sued.
The real problem, though, from an IT perspective, with Dell, IBM, etc. (I actually don't have a problem with IBM, really) is that the machines all have proprietary software. If you choose to keep it on, you have to pretty much stick to that brand.
If you choose to remove it, you not only have to pull out all of those little buggery programs, but you have to eliminate the hard drive backups and make your own drive images.
And, if you choose to keep it, those OS's take something like 3 1/2 to 4 hours per machine to install. Or re-install. The shortest install was Dell's Windows 98 SE, which took something like 90 minutes to install. Then I still had to pop the drivers on. And the programs. You still pretty much have to make your own drive images ANYWAY. | |
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| Dell Hell
Posted: 12/9/2006 6:32:43 AM | I am tired of my dell 733 mhz desktop. I want to try amd, anyone has any advice on what to look for, what to buy and what to avoid. I am not a gamer or a porn movie maker so I don't need the latest video card or the latest chip.
anyone know a decent guy or small company in the area of kitchener ( or a radius of 100km ) that makes decent pc's. | |
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| Dell Hell
Posted: 12/9/2006 10:48:58 AM | amd dual cores - socket 939 would be cheapest and the most bang for your buck.
the motherboards support DDR ram so that also makes it less expensive.
this , lets call it last generation.
dual core - socket am2. and DDR2 ram. this is present generation.
more expensive but a better upgrade path.
when buying a cpu - i usually find the sweet spot - just before the price jumps up.
I.E.
amd 4200+/2.2 gig dualcore - 205.00
amd 5000/2.6 gig dual core - 379.00 (prices from infonec.com)
this would be the sweet spot - the 4200+ what i do is buy a lower speed and OC it to the higher.
Ram - DDR and DDR2 about the same price now unless you want low latency DDR2.
If your planning on vista get 2 gigs at least. (about 250 for name brand)
Motherboards,
the secret of a stable system is a good quality motherboard. you get a cheapy and you get nothing but problems. Asus/ABIT/DFI are the ones I usually use and asus is usually at the top. good solid boards the most important thing with a motherboard is support, the company has to update bios and drivers regularly.
all in all I figure about 600 bucks + or - to be vista ready..
and away from the evil Dell (and you thought this was off topic lol) | |
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| Dell Hell
Posted: 12/9/2006 1:31:11 PM | | Here some Dell News, Dell does not make computers or laptops, they are one of the greatest Marketing success stories going. Dell may assemble there computers but they do not make any computer parts, they get there parts from the cheapest source going, and stamp there name all over it. So if you think buying a DELL you are buying something special, trust me anyone who knows about computers will not be impressed. Your better of building a custom computer, knowing the parts that are in your computer from quality manufactures eg Motherboard, use a brand like "ASUS" and there is the beginning to a great computer and go from there. Also start with a good generic case with a quality power supply, generic cases are easy to replace and you wont be cash soaked when yo need to change or upgrade a part. If you think DELL is great cause they change malfunctioning parts, its ciase they use the cheapest of parts. I am in the computer biz for years now, and i have met alot of dis satisfied DELL costomers. As for Laptops, one guy said DELL changed all these parts for him, i have owned IMB's, and now and ASUS Laptop (whom make the motherboards) and no issues, never ever had to call tech support, only DELL comouters call DELL support. BUILD YOUR OWN :) | |
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| Dell Hell
Posted: 12/9/2006 1:36:23 PM | | Well after calling management at Dell, I finally had my problem solved but it took some time finding out who to call in management. I had to call the supervisor's boss of the guy who sold me the system because the supervisor did not call me back soon enough (I was getting impatient after 2 hours LOL). Lo and behold I got a call right away after leaving a message on supervisor's boss saying the supervisor had not bothered to call me back. Funny thing...so the supervisor is all nice, sweet, and soooooo accomodating lol - he really goes out of his way to clear everything up. I ask him to send me, in writing, that they had received my payment in full etc... and that I would be taken off their Dell Perferred Customer bullshit (they basically rip you off big time by putting you on a monthly payment plan where they charge you over the top interest). Anyways, the guy emails me confirmation of payment etc THEN has the nerve to write in small blue font half way down the email his bosses email address saying something about his excellent customer service blah blah - I'm reading this laughing so hard thinking YEAH RIGHT!!!! What a joke. Lesson to be learned - if you ever have problems always call the big guys at the company right off the bat. Don't waste your time calling customer service or the person's boss who did you wrong go above their head FIRST then you won't waste your time. Thanks for all the great responses here. | |
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| Dell Hell
Posted: 12/9/2006 4:25:45 PM | Stray4u, I think you have to start deferentiating between Dell Desktops and Dell Laptops.
Although I dont own a Dell laptop, as far as I know, their cases, power supplies, and motherboards are all proprietary to Dell, which in my mind means 'built by Dell', unless they contract a 3rd party company. That usually stands to leave drives, add in cards, processors, and so on, none of which you'd want built by the company itself (unless you arent a right-minded person).
As for laptops, its pretty much the same deal, save hard drive, screen, and other components.
Personally, I prefer that approach. I shudder whenever I look at a Toshiba laptop and see a Toshiba hard drive. I'd rather see a Fujitsu.
Still, you are 200% correct when you, me, and most everyone else on here has suggested building your own to be much better. Its often more cost effective, and you designed it, therefore if it breaks, we all get to laugh at you (you being the builder, not use Stray4u) 
Then again, if you are a fairly large company that has to buy in bulk, you'll usually find Dell, MDG, or whatever other company will be cheaper due to bulk discounts. But, I've no experience in that department, me being a single user, I dont need to buy in bulk so I have no war stories for it. | |
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| Dell Hell
Posted: 12/10/2006 10:42:42 AM | oops should of added this to last post
power supplies
most modern computers need a larger, cleaner powersupply then what is supplied in the cheaper cases. I'd say minimum get a 450W or bigger depending on how much hardware you have in your computer. Newer video cards need alot more power. good manufacters are enermax, antec, ocz all make decent powersupplies. low quality or not powerful enough power supply and you have really weird problems.
hard drives
cheap now. sata things to know
spindle speed (5400, 7200, or 10,000rpm)
- faster the hard drive spins the faster you can find and access your data.
random access time - lower is better
transfer rate - higher is better.
again name brands..I personally use Western digital raptors (10,000rpm, 4.3ms Random access time) but i'd recommend a 7200 rpm drive.
the 5400rpm drives are really slow but for older computers are great..
good names Seagate, Maxtor, Western Digital.
cases-
what they look like only matters to you so if you want a really nice one , well you pay for it.
price range 30 - 1000. never actually seen a 1000 dollar case but i bet theres one out there.
what to look for -
ventilation - places for fans, fans supplied
- fans go from 80mm to 120mm and are very important now adays. they can also come with the case or not.
- powersupplies (PSU) - strangely cheaper cases come with PSUs while the more expnsive cases don't
-run your hand inside the case gentlely to see if it has sharp edges, if it does ...move on (you'll cut your hands installing parts and this is the one oh thats too cheap test).
usb, sound, firewire ports on front panels - thisw is kinda handy
some come with water cooling setups (500 bucks and up)
for me the important questions are....
a. can i get my big frickin hands in it to work?
b. if they do, will i cut them to peices working in it?
c. does it have adequite ventialation (flow through)?
d. is there good strong power supply in it? (this one i haven't done in a while since i buy cases without power supplies)?
e. how much? (did i mention i'm dutch)
Sound card
most good quality motherboards have decent on-board sound now adays.
your other option is an add on card like Ceative labs audigy2 and X-fi cards.
add on cards such as the x-fi and audigy give you better sound then on-board and it does the sound processing so your cpu doesn't (in the case of on-board it does) therfor have a faster computer.
there is a few out there but creative has the biggest market share, oh there support sucks ...new drivers are released very seldom.
this may help if you ar planning on changing from dell. | |
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| Dell Hell
Posted: 12/10/2006 12:13:53 PM | | I dont know if I should be proud to say, or shamed to say, running 5 hard drives, 2 optical drives, 2gigs of ram, an X800, a dual core, 7 case fans, and a cathode... all on 480Watts of Thermaltake power :-D For the last year and a half. | |
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| Dell Hell
Posted: 12/10/2006 2:02:12 PM | and no problems? lucky guy...must have good 12v rails. i got an enermax 480w and only run dual core , x1900xt 512mb radeon (power hog), 2 raptors, 2 gig ram, tv tuner, sound card 3 120mm fans.
I remeber working on this guys system in the shop once, hell he had big p4, 2 gigs ram, 2 video cards, 4 hardrives, a cd , a dvd, a dvd burner, a tv card, a sound blaster platinum ( with the little box up front, nic.. he came in with a list of weird things that were happening and the guy who started working on it by the second day he was pulling his hair out ...couldn't figure it out. he had removed alot of the hard ware and replaced it intil he starteed getting errors then he'd test that hardware in another machine find out it was fine. He came over said it was f***d and that was it for him. I walked over and looked and it had a generic 300w supply...swapped it out for a 500w and it was fixed.
next upgrade I'm thinking 600-800w
I was thinking of upgrading to coredual2 , try intel for a while (here they clock really well.), have to sell my present cpu/mb/ram though first. any one want to upgrade?
I have amd dual core 4400+ S939, 2 GIGS ocz PLATINUM, AND ASUS A8N-SLI PREMIUM and big typhoon heatsink or stock. just need a fair price for it. | |
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| Dell Hell
Posted: 12/10/2006 9:58:30 PM | I'm furious! I should have asked questions here before buying anything - especially after reading about warranties as I payed extra for a 3 year warranty - good lessons here to be learned. Do your homework before buying from anywhere.
Don't fret that's the major strategy of most of the PC manufacturing corporations nowdays. Dell used to be on the top of the quality producing market but the usual capitalistic mentality of growing profits uber alles has eaten them like anybody else.
You can't get a decent machine nowdays from anywhere. Usually after a year (when the regular warranty they offer expires) hardware problems will start creeping up. Only Apple is holding on for now but that's why their hardware is so expensive.
So bottom line is (if that makes you feel better) that every day customers are screwed one way or the other but the PC manufacturing companies... | |
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