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| If a teacher is homophobic should they be teaching children?
Posted: 12/5/2006 8:44:18 PM | yeah, but not if they are arachnophobic.
Seriously, perhaps you meant something like "hates homosexuals"
In that case, I would still ask, what does that have to do with algebra?
Or, maybe you meant "teaches hatred toward homosexuals"
In that case I would say no, unless the subject of the class was, "How to hate anyone you don't understand 101". | |
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shybee
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Joined: 11/18/2006
Msg: 3 | |
| If a teacher is homophobic should they be teaching children?
Posted: 12/5/2006 9:34:22 PM | Homophobic........an extreme or irrational aversion to homosexuality or homosexual persons
If there is no indication of the persons personal beliefs in the classroom or in the interactions with the children they are teaching then it doesn't affect the children....therefore no prob.
If they bring it into the classroom then it is a problem for those who protect the little ones that the teacher is influencing......other teachers, administrators, parents need to act...then it is not ok.
If the person is prominent in the community or in any spotlight on the issue that would be apparent to the children then it is a problem for those that protect these children to look at how this is going to affect their children.
It also depends on the level at which they are being taught by someone who is homophobic. Teenagers and early 20's are still considered by many to be children in todays society. DO parents try to protect them too? I believe that teenage years are very impresssionistic times and therefore I would have zero tolerance for vocal individuals in the high school years but at the University level I would express my alternative views to my children and hope that the morals and life skills that I helped to develop in them allowed them to see things in an open minded and nonjudgemental way while still getting what they need in any given stage of higher learning.
who can dispute this? | |
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| If a teacher is homophobic should they be teaching children?
Posted: 12/6/2006 2:59:08 AM | You can't tell by looking, but I'm afraid of both heights and snakes. I don't know why, I just am. You can't tell someone's homophobic by looking either, or agrophobic. If someone is teaching kids and has any phobias they should be allowed to continue as long as they're not skewing the information based on it. I'm not going to tell kids they can't go in elevators or shouldn't live on any floor above the 3d in a building because it's too high. I'm not going to tell them not to have a pet snake because I'm afraid of them. As long as the homophobic person isn't teaching that homosexuality is wrong, then I think it's okay for them to teach.
The trouble here is if these people are inflicting their views about homosexuality on children, well, that's not acceptable. Teachers influence us during our impressionable years. I do feel that regardless of whether or not they openly display their phobias that it could have an affect. Kids tend to pick up on a lot of things that adults miss.
I do agree that it depends on the age of the audience. Someone who is still rapidly developing their own world views, their own ideas about things, shouldn't be so influenced... but it happens. Kids are raised by racist parents, children have drug addicted parents... they see violence everywhere. The world is a crazy place...
Basically as previously postd, if it's NOT affecting the development of that child's morality and views then it's not an issue. Everyone has to decide for themselves what they feel is right and wrong, but at the same time we are all influenced in some way by what others say and do.
It's too bad we just can't all get along.
I can't resist mentioning that a lot of children, at very young ages, are taught that homosexuality is wrong. Often that teaching comes from parents or community and religious leaders. I can't see the homophobic teacher who doesn't let it come up or out during class having as much impact as, say, the preacher (of random faith) telling you it's wrong and you're going to you-know-where (random place of punishment based on faith) if you even think about it.
We shouldn't try to change who we are or what we like because someone tells us it's wrong. Everyone's different... if we weren't then life would be awfully boring, no? :D | |
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| If a teacher is homophobic should they be teaching children?
Posted: 12/6/2006 11:11:44 AM |
I can't resist mentioning that a lot of children, at very young ages, are taught that homosexuality is wrong.
I wouldn't say it's wrong to be a homosexual, but then I don't consider it normal either. Still, I wouldn't want anyone spreading prejudice and hate teaching my kids.
Regards,
Mac | |
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| If a teacher is homophobic should they be teaching children?
Posted: 12/6/2006 1:38:27 PM | | One technical definition of "normal" is what is the central tendency in a culture. If you think of a "normal distribution" or "bell curve" for instance it would arguably be the central ~2/3....what practices are engaged in by the majority ~2/3 of the population. With regards to sexual abstinence for instance, by that argument priests, monks, nuns (and any others that are abstinent for whatever reason) are not "normal"....because they don't represent the average or central practices of the culture. However, there's no value judgement associated with that usage.....that nuns, monks or priests are not "normal" by that definition is just a description of their activities (or lack of activity in this case) relative to those in the middle of that bell curve, not a statement that there's anything wrong with being a nun or a priest and, as a consequence, being abstinent. | |
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| If a teacher is homophobic should they be teaching children?
Posted: 12/6/2006 7:22:24 PM | | Iwould like to know how we went form talking about a fear of homosexuals to a hatred of homosexuals. Two different things people. Try not to change the meaning of the word to fit your idea of the word(that's the governments job). | |
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| If a teacher is homophobic should they be teaching children?
Posted: 12/6/2006 7:22:45 PM |
One technical definition of "normal" is what is the central tendency in a culture.
Hey Gerry,
I hear you! I do appreciate you sharing your obvious wisdom to help enlighten those of us still in the dark ages.
One of the books in our library (when I was a child) was a book on the writings of Plato about the life of Socrates. The arguments presented in that book would leave one impossible to refute the theory of life after death. Yet in the four times I read that book between the ages of 13-17, I closed the book afterwards and thought, that regardless of the arguments in dispute, I chose not to believe.
If nothing else, I gained from my studies that people with convictions should be free to explore and examine their loyalties and faith. It is the basic building block of all people who would consider themselves to be "free thinkers."
Alas! I confess; my thinking has not lead me to anyone else's definition of normal; simply what I believe. In my opinion, homosexuality is an abomination of nature.
As a people, we understand that there are those of us, among us, who don't share our views but "technical definitions of "normal" are complacent theologies of an ever expanded passive society, which some of us will never subscribe to. The "central tendencies" no longer amuse us.
With all due respect, "central tendency" is a reference to people who aren't aware of the abnormally infecting modern day culture nor the intelligence to effect a change -- which doesn't make it right.
This post isn't blasphemy. I want everyone to explore how they feel about this topic and not to be mis-led by a social etiquette structure -- which your post would imply by suggesting a "norm" that many of us don't accept to be valid.
WE.., don't accept homosexuality as being normal.
WE ... don't want teachers teaching our children that it is normal
WE don't say it's wrong, just abnormal...
WE don't want teachers imposing their views on our children.
Regards,
Mac | |
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tadger
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Joined: 7/11/2006
Msg: 10 | |
| If a teacher is homophobic should they be teaching children?
Posted: 12/6/2006 7:44:55 PM | What about someone who is obsessed with S&M?
If it is not in the classroom, and they are a good teacher, it does not matter IN TERMS OF THE TEACHING. Morally is obviously a whole different story. Anyone who goes about broadcasting support of homophobia has no business anywhere near decent people, especially children.
If Keegstra had kept his filthy thoughts about the Holocaust to himself, and stuck with his subject matter, what harm would he have done IN THE SCHOOL? he was known as an excellent teacher. But by sharing his perverted notions, he did huge amounts of damage with the weight of the school system behind him.
I guess the comeback to that is "would you want a paedophile teaching your children if they only were obsessed with children outside of school" (revolting revolting thoughts) but it is not the same thing. Homophobia is not a mental illness, and can be educated out of a rational person. A paedophile cannot be rehabilitated or "cured", and so it would be impossible to keep the school and the perversion seperate.
Would I want a homophobe teaching my children? No, and neither would I want a racist, or a religious zealot, or a rampant feminist, or a biggot, or a Stephen Harper supporter ...
But if I never knew these things about them, and they were good teachers...
what a loaded question. Okay Gerrymac, you can start giving me a difficult time now. (but if you make it too nasty, I won't buy that coffee)
edited note: what on earth is abnormal about homosexuality? seems to me that anything that has been around since the beginning of time and keeps being selected for within the gene pool is by definition, normal. natural selection is all about keeping the advantageous allelles, so seems to me that is just a natural part of being human. if it wasn't natural, it would have been selected out of the pool after 200 thousand years, eh? "Hyper-masculinity" is considered a mental illness, though...as is hysterical personality (the ultra-feminine equivalent) maybe those are unnatural? | |
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| If a teacher is homophobic should they be teaching children?
Posted: 12/6/2006 7:52:25 PM | ^^^^ My post was, in fact, a deliberate effort to provide a way of interpreting the posts above it (which both used the word "normal") that might have a calming influence in the interpretation of those posts that others might make and subsequent discussions so that the original topic is focused on. Your (i.e., Mac's) clarification above probably negates the intended impact of my post. I should mention that from your (i.e., Mac's) comments I get the impression that there was a misinterpretation of part of my post...."Central tendency" refers merely to those features representative of the numeric *majority* of the population.
On the topic of communicating views......It is effectively impossible to have any communication without values of the "sender" being imposed. Thus, it is impossible for any teacher to not impose views of one sort or another on children in a classroom. Values are an inherent part of communication and lie both in and between the words which are being used. The mere decision to discuss or not discuss the existence of something is a value choice. | |
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tadger
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Joined: 7/11/2006
Msg: 12 | |
| If a teacher is homophobic should they be teaching children?
Posted: 12/6/2006 8:00:12 PM | Just for the record - being a teacher is hard - we seem to have to have more values than 99% of the population (including the parents) with only 1% of the credit and pay...
Honestly, really, I can't see how someone with strong views would be able to hide them from their students. You just get too involved with what you do, and it is hard to be open and honest with your students if you are hiding something you believe in.
So, while in theory I feel anyone with the qualifications to be a good teacher is just that, it would probably be difficult to be a good teacher without passing on your moral judgements.
This is mind bending. | |
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| If a teacher is homophobic should they be teaching children?
Posted: 12/6/2006 8:41:07 PM |
(i.e., Mac's) comments I get the impression that there was a misinterpretation of part of my post...."Central tendency" refers merely to those features representative of the numeric *majority* of the population.
Yeah... I got that Gerry; this isn't the place...
Email me -- we will have a BBQ and a beer next Summer (at my cottage on the bay of Fundy) and I would be happy to exchange opposing views with you.
Why?
I have a lot of friends who don't share my views on these matters. I don't expect friends to agree with me. Makes for a lively debate though...
Regards,
Mac | |
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fClef
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Joined: 5/14/2006
Msg: 15 | |
| If a teacher is homophobic should they be teaching children?
Posted: 12/7/2006 9:31:02 PM | "If a teacher is homophobic should they be teaching children?"
Should they be teaching children Homophobia? Definitely not.
Should they be teaching children? Unless you can find perfect people who are willing to teach, sure.
Name me 3 perfect teachers & I'll sit down & shut up. | |
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| If a teacher is homophobic should they be teaching children?
Posted: 12/8/2006 11:02:44 AM | "WE.., don't accept homosexuality as being normal"
Feel free to have your opinions. However, do not say "we" when you give them. WE do not think homosexuality is abnormal, YOU do. YOU may think you are the majority, but that is in your mind only. YOU don't know what the majority thinks, you can only know what you think.
I think if a teacher is homophobic, then they are a little ignorant. If they are ignorant to that kind of thing..maybe there are other issues as well? However, if they don't influence the kids to their thinking on a matter that has nothing to do with their teachings, then what hard is there done? | |
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| If a teacher is homophobic should they be teaching children?
Posted: 1/6/2007 8:48:45 AM | Let's look at this on a scientific level. Men and Women are designed with different sexual organs. However, they are designed for reproduction. To keep the human race from becoming extinct.
Now, this is meant to be the normal use of these body parts. They have a purpose. When they are used incorrectly, then this would be called abnormal.
This seems to be plain to see. Now Individuals can do what ever they want to their bodies and body parts. This is not something that should be promoted in our school system nor should it be condemed.
Teachers should teach what is in the books and nothing more. They should incourage individuality and creativity and just give the facts. This will allow our children to make their own chooses in life.
We should not promote and condem homosexuality, beastiality, s &M, or hetrosexuality. These things will be discovered on there own. | |
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LBP
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Joined: 12/27/2006
Msg: 18 | |
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ukgal
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Joined: 8/25/2006
Msg: 19 | |
| If a teacher is homophobic should they be teaching children?
Posted: 1/7/2007 10:54:22 AM | Yes, I agree. I dont believe it is right for teachers to promote their own beliefs on the students they are teaching...be it of a political, religious or homophobic belief.
They are being paid, by us, the tax payers, to teach our children Maths, English, science etc, not to spread or enourage intollerance towards others or prejudices. | |
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| If a teacher is homophobic should they be teaching children?
Posted: 1/7/2007 12:41:09 PM | How might one discuss "stem cell research" in a science classroom without beliefs, attitudes or politics coming into it? That is a very topical science subject. How could it be discussed without those?
I wrote it here @ POF before, I will again.....it is essentially unfeasible for values or beliefs to not come into any social interaction. What you choose to address in your classroom, how you choose to address it, what examples you pick relative to those you exclude, all have embedded implicitly within them a representation of your "beliefs" and orientations. It is just not possible to communicate without one's "self" intruding on the communication....which means one's own beliefs are promoted irrespective of intentions.
Even the curriculum documents themselves have embedded within them particular beliefs. History courses almost entirely represent the history of the upper classes and the "winners" in any conflict. It's not that the other side isn't known, but that the writer's of curriculum know that of the upper-classes better (not surprisingly, as that representst THEIR origins). It is, for instance, highly unusual for any detailed history of the labour movement to be explored in history classes. Despite that, many kids come from families where an understanding of the history of the labour movement and its gains in the long-term might be useful in decisions they're making. However, the presentation of the labour movement, both in curriculum and in the media, is almost always negative.
Values permeate choices, conversations, discussions, presentations, and irremediably, any teaching. It is inescapable. We avoid that reality because it forces uncomfortable choices on us, and we'd rather ignore those choices. | |
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| If a teacher is homophobic should they be teaching children?
Posted: 1/7/2007 2:07:26 PM |
"If a teacher is homophobic should they be teaching children?"
Should they be teaching children Homophobia? Definitely not.
Should they be teaching children? Unless you can find perfect people who are willing to teach, sure.
Name me 3 perfect teachers & I'll sit down & shut up.
My thoughts exactly!!
Teachers in Canada have to deal with a huge pot of international cultures and customs.
With that in mind, they are certainly NOT always going to be right in everyone's eyes dealing with them. | |
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| If a teacher is homophobic should they be teaching children?
Posted: 1/7/2007 2:07:31 PM |
"If a teacher is homophobic should they be teaching children?"
Should they be teaching children Homophobia? Definitely not.
Should they be teaching children? Unless you can find perfect people who are willing to teach, sure.
Name me 3 perfect teachers & I'll sit down & shut up.
My thoughts exactly!!
Teachers in Canada have to deal with a huge pot of international cultures and customs.
With that in mind, they are certainly NOT always going to be right in everyone's eyes dealing with them. | |
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| If a teacher is homophobic should they be teaching children?
Posted: 1/16/2008 8:54:37 AM | Of course they should, otherwise that would be discrimination ... kinda like if you turn the question around to "If a teacher is gay should they be teaching children?"
The problem only comes in if they are vocal of their feelings and try to influence the children ... either way. | |
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