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| It turns out that you're in the wrong religion...
Posted: 12/6/2006 7:08:13 PM | I've always wondered about people choosing their religion, or choosing their particular denomination. If it's based upon faith, and nothing is realistically proveable, then how do you know if you're in the correct one?
Do you go to the one that's the most convenient for you? Do you go to the one that makes the most sense to you? Do you go to the one that's fairest to your gender, race, or sexual orientation? Aren't these just selfish choices? Maybe you go to the one that makes the most noise or is the largest.
It seems to me that all of those choices are totally irrelevant to it's truth. Maybe the one that's patently unfair to women, for example, is the truest path to God's will. Maybe the hardship that you'd go through here on Earth is your lot in life. Even though it may seem heinous in this life, don't you think that God would make up for it in the eternal afterlife and give you credit for showing dignity through hardship? Maybe that's what you're supposed to learn and experience. Maybe your hardship is saving several others from worse hardship. Your 100 years of suffering on Earth is nothing when put in perspective of an infinite privileged afterlife.
Have you struggled to find truth in religion? Have you suffered as a result of you spending part of your finite life on this critically important quest? Shouldn't this be a lifelong quest? Strangely, I think that I can stand tall against these questions...and I'm an Atheist/Agnostic.
I can't get into my head how anyone can truly believe in a god or gods and not have it be the singlemost important thing in their life. Obviously most 'religious' people don't make all their decisions like God is watching them. Maybe people don't grasp the concept of infinity and long-term. This leads me to two questions for most people:
• How many people truly believe in a god?
• How do you justify taking the path of least resistance for what should be the most important thing in your life?
GE&H | |
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| It turns out that you're in the wrong religion...
Posted: 12/6/2006 7:36:59 PM | Some people are happy having read 'The Fellowship of the Ring' and never going beyond it. Others get as far as 'The Two Towers', and they're happy. Still others, they don't feel like they've got the whole thing until they've finished 'Return of the King'. Still others, having gotten the entire story and wanting more, they go back, before the beginning, and they read 'The Hobbit'.
It's all the same premise, all the same story. Some parts are just more complete than others.
What does this have to do with the question?
Fellowship is the Old Testament.
Towers is the New Testament.
Return is the Qur'an.
The Hobbit? Take your pick. Hindu? Zoroastrianism? Germanic Paganism?
It's all the same. There is no wrong religion.
Assalaamu alaikum, merry christmas, and have a happy yule,
Michael | |
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| It turns out that you're in the wrong religion...
Posted: 12/6/2006 8:16:26 PM | | After looking into most of the Christian paths, then Wicca and Druidism, then the Nat. Amer. path, I found that the Norse Way was NOT a "dead" religion, meaning that it was no longer practiced. I agree that to truely know what path you are REALLY on you need to look around at more than one. I had a vision of Odin while keeping watch over a sacred fire at my parent's church during a "Candle-light-vigil". He explained to me that I would be a "Protector of Children" and basicily nudged me along into the path of my ancestors. The DIVINE has many faces. JMO | |
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| It turns out that you're in the wrong religion...
Posted: 12/6/2006 9:29:15 PM | First of all I would like to say that I think this is a great topic and well worth discussing.
It's been my experience that no one church or denomination within Christianity owns a monopoly on "THE TRUTH". In fact there are probably 50 Christian churches within a 1hr drive of me, and I bet every one of them is wrong about something.
It's also been my experience that faith is something you struggle with... I love the Jewish metaphor where they describe this as "wrestling with God".
And you know what...wrestling hurts. Sometimes, like the op pointed out, it's pretty fricking inconvenient and involves a lot of suffering.
Anyway...cool thread. | |
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| It turns out that you're in the wrong religion...
Posted: 12/6/2006 10:17:24 PM | I agree interesting thread,... gives one something to ponder. One must learn about other faiths to be able to make a knowledgable decision if their questions take them beyond their faith of upbringing.
OP
...and I'm an Atheist/Agnostic.
?? so which is it? atheist or agnostic??
I think most people would change their minds too IF they were SHOWN proof. We'd all love that, as it would make things so much easier now wouldn't it? Blind faith is a difficult thing to adopt especially in this day and age of advanced science. | |
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| It turns out that you're in the wrong religion...
Posted: 12/6/2006 10:33:14 PM | | If learning about the deeper and more important things in life arent easy enough for you, then don't bother. There's more entertaining things to distract you from them if you prefer. | |
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Ender
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Joined: 2/1/2004
Msg: 9 | |
| It turns out that you're in the wrong religion...
Posted: 12/7/2006 12:34:16 AM | Why the hell would you need to quantify your relationship with the divine by signing on with some relgion whose rules were penned by man?
Spirituality and your reltionship with God/Goddess/Jobu/Alah/wtfe shouldn't be defined by a set of rules and regulations (which IMO is a damn good description of religion), but should be formed by a deep connection with your own "moral compass".
But feel free to read whatever "sacred book" you want. Its your life. | |
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| It turns out that you're in the wrong religion...
Posted: 12/7/2006 8:26:46 AM | NewWayHome: There is no wrong religion. I'm not particularly saying there is a right or wrong. I'm asking...What if the religion that is inconvenient, uncomfortable, or unfair to you is actually the truest one? Mele Kalikimaka.
ThorintheSkald: I had a vision of Odin while keeping watch over a sacred fire at my parent's church during a "Candle-light-vigil". He explained to me that I would be a "Protector of Children" and basicily nudged me along into the path of my ancestors. An excellent reason for going down that path - definitely not the path of least resistance.
jay48jay: OP ~ WHAT DO YOU BELIEVE IN ? I don't believe that there are gods, but I'm open to the idea of being wrong. I can't imagine what proof I'd accept.
And Can It Be: I drive about 40 miles each way to go to church because I value a church that teaches doctrine I agree with. I don't agree with believer baptism plus I really like my pastor so I stick with my church. This is exactly what I'm talking about - maybe the purest or rightest religion is one where you don't happen to feel comfortable. Maybe being annoyed and prodded will teach you more. Maybe you're just using your denomination as a warm blanket.
...a lot of the people are cultural Catholics... Brilliant phrasing. Applies to any religion. To me, this means they don't actually believe - they're nominally 'believing'...just in case. To me, this seems incredibly insulting to God that they think He'd be so easily fooled.
whodeletedme: ?? so which is it? atheist or agnostic?? 90% atheist, 10% agnostic - see answer to jay48jay.
It seems to me that people are making their religious decisions based upon the path of least resistance...And Can It Be bravely said "I value a church that teaches doctrine I agree with" and "I really like my pastor". These are pretty standard reasons given by most people. Also, "all my family goes to this church" and "it's within walking distance" and the like. What I'm saying is that what if you got to the Day of Reckoning (or whatever) and God asked "So Bob - on the most important decision in your life, the one concerning your eternal afterlife, the decision that's infinitely more important than your mortgage or cellphone provider...you just picked the one closest to your house? Please justify your choice." ?
I'm atheist because I don't believe in any gods. I'm not anti-theist, I just don't happen to believe because something in me requires proof and I haven't found it. But what if I was atheist because I was just too lazy to get up on the Sabbath or to go to church twice a year or whatever? Then I'd just be like the majority of religious people in this part of the world...non-believers pretending to be 'sort of' religious. The only difference is that I'd be more efficient.
Isn't going to the church/temple/mosque/priest/pastor/rabbi/swami that makes you feel comfy, warm, and safe just like hiring a yes-man? Aren't they just telling you what you want to hear? How is this tangeably different from someone sleeping in on the Sabbath because they don't want to get out of a comfy, warm, and safe bed?
GE&H | |
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| It turns out that you're in the wrong religion...
Posted: 12/7/2006 8:43:04 AM |
I'm not particularly saying there is a right or wrong. I'm asking...What if the religion that is inconvenient, uncomfortable, or unfair to you is actually the truest one?
Do I actually need to expand on my statement 'there is no wrong religion'?
The question you're asking is a lot like the post above that talks about fifty churches within a mile of his house that are all wrong about something. My point was, well, they're actually all right about something, and the latter is infinitely more important than the former.
As far as your question about the truest one it's a non-starter. Short of God dropping in for a visit and saying to someone 'follow this path because it is the truest one' how on earth are we supposed to know?
I gotta tell you, islam is pretty bloody inconvenient and uncomfortable. I live in a country where half the people view me as the 'enemy' of everything they stand for. I have to be up before dawn to pray and I have to pray throughout the day at specific times until way after the sun goes down. I never, ever thought that my life was going to bring me to islam, I was an episcopalean alter boy!
But I've got an answer to your horribly false premised question: if you find that the truth is inconvenient, uncomfortable, and unfair, you suck it up, you admit you were wrong, and you deal with it like a grown up.
Assalaamu alaikum, merry christmas, and have a happy yule,
Michael | |
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| It turns out that you're in the wrong religion...
Posted: 12/7/2006 9:27:56 AM | That's because people can't differentiate between one person to the next. It's throughout history.
one person, of a certain race or religion does something bloody awful, and they're all deemed bloody awful.
Maybe our mixing pot society needs to remember that it takes all kinds...
Oh, and ... I read the Hobbit first, so where does that leave me? LOL | |
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| It turns out that you're in the wrong religion...
Posted: 12/7/2006 9:35:20 AM | What about this as a possibility? (from www.bibleufo.com)
My point being... what if the "God" is moreso what we refer to as an extraterrestrial? Ancient scripts from India also mention God in "flying machines".
The Big Five Encounters of the Bible
There are five encounters described in detail in the Bible, several instances of men being transported by or entering into stationary or flying vehicles, many direct encounters with vehicles in the air, conversations from the sky, or beings on the ground. The five extended encounters require more than a cursory examination and should each be studied in their entirety. They are briefly outlined below:
The Greatest Close Encounter in History, The Exodus
This encounter starts with a conversation from a glowing vehicle on the ground, follows the high-tech harassment of the reluctant Pharaoh, and Hebrew's flight from Egypt, Moses' entry into the vehicle, and then records the forty year wanderings of the nation of Israel as it is directly led by aerial guidance. Scores of descriptions and encounters with flying vehicles, advanced technology, and space age weaponry are recorded during this journey. The Exodus section of this site covers the individual instances, but a complete read of the book is worthwhile.
The world record for number of witnesses and length of encounter must certainly be held by the "Exodus" event. While most people know about Ezekiel's "Wheels” and Elijah’s whirlwind, few consider the incredible experiences of those who participated in the exodus from Egypt. Accepted estimates of the number of Hebrews that left Egypt with Moses put the number at about 1.5 million. Added to that number are the Egyptian refugees from the disaster that had just occurred, and others following this huge entourage out of a devastated Egypt. That could swell the number of travelers on the Exodus to between two and three million, being constantly overshadowed, sustained, and led by a huge flying object. At the beginning of the journey, this massive group of people was saved from the pursuing Egyptian army by this vehicle and fed daily and provided with water for 40 years. At times this vehicle would halt and hover over this group for months, providing shade during the day and light at night. The group would not travel if the vehicle was not moving.
The Beginning of the 40-Year Exodus Encounter
The first encounter that Moses has with God appearing directly to him is from the famous account of the strange "burning bush". He was amazed because what he is is seeing seems to be a bramble on fire but the bramble is not being consumed. (...behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.) God then begins to speak from inside this glowing bramble-like object....behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed... I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt....And when the Lord saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush.....Exodus 3:2-4 ). This is similar to the description of another strange object encountered later (And the sight of the glory of the Lord was like devouring fire on the top of the mount in the eyes of the children of Israel. Exodus 24:17) It is during this encounter that Moses is given the commission to lead the Hebrews out of Egypt.
In the 16th Chapter of the Exodus the close encounter begins in the wilderness of Sin. The people are beginning to question whether they were just taken on a wild goose chase and will die of hunger out in the middle of nowhere. Yhovah reveals to Moses that he will now begin to feed the people in two ways, by driving wild game into the encampment in the evening and providing bread, manna, in the morning. As Aaron was telling the people a vehicle appears and that very evening flocks of quail covered the camp and the next morning manna appeared on the ground in quantities more than enough to satisfy everybody's hunger. This had to happen every day as the manna had to be eaten before the next morning or it would rot, except the double quantity they gathered on the day before the Sabbath, the only day the manna would not appear. While they were camped at Rephidim Moses is given the power to bring water from rocks.
A Direct Encounter with Yhovah
In the 19th Chapter of the Exodus the people experience a prolonged encounter with a great craft about two weeks after the food miracle and warding of an unsuccessful attack by Amalek the chief of an Idumean tribe at Rephidim. (The defeat of Amalek is a miracle in itself and involves what seems to be Moses using some form of psychokenesis. Exodus 17:10-12) Yhovah demands that a strict perimeter be established around mount Sanai, where the vehicle is about to land and the people are warned that breaching that perimeter could cause death to humans and animals. The craft is so huge it causes the million-plus people witnessing to tremble at the bright lights and terrible sounds coming from it. Moses goes up the mountain and into the vehicle and Yhovah reinforces his warning about the deadly perimeter. Moses goes back down the mountain, warns the people, and Yhovah begins to speak directly to the people and giving them his commandments from the vehicle.
These commandments continue from the 20th through the 23rd chapters of Exodus. In the 24th chapter, after the vehicle has been on the mountain for 6 days, Yhovah calls Moses back up to the vehicle where he remains for 40 days receiving instructions for a mobile tabernacle, the Ark of the Covenant and other items from models Moses sees in the vehicle, (verse 40). Yhovah gives minute details of everything in the tabernacle and the rituals and restrictions to be performed in it and personally writes it all down on stone tablets with his own hand.
Moses is Transformed, and the Long Journey Begins
While Moses is gone the attention span of the people proves to be very short and they build a pagan altar, which Moses breaks in anger. After this discretion is dealt with Moses returns to the vehicle and Yhovah makes him rewrite the edicts and he brings these new tablets to the people. Moses' face is glowing so intensely after the prolonged meeting with Yhovah that the people are afraid to come near him and he is forced to cover his face with as veil. Moses oversees the building of the tabernacle and the ark and the vehicle leads the Hebrew nation through the wilderness for the next 40 years.
Descriptions That Verify a Flying Guiding Vehicle
- The escort that accompanies the travelers is called a "pillar of a cloud" by day and a "a pillar of fire" by night. The word pillar is translated from `ammuwd, pronounced, am-mood; a column as standing; also a stand, i.e. platform. This means that this could either be a column or a platform that had the appearance of a cloud in the daylight and when the sun went down, it lit up. And, it is staying close to the people, in other words, hovering. When considered in light of the many other descriptions, replacing the word platform where pillar appears seems a more logical choice.
- The platform comes directly between the Hebrews and the pursuing Egyptian army. (Exodus 14:19)
- The platform harassed the Egyptian army. (Exodus 14:24)
- The "glory of the Lord appeared in the cloud" that leads the Hebrews. (Exodus 16:10)
- The lord ascended on Mount Sinai with great lights beaming into the night sky, shaking the mountain greatly and broadcasting very loud sounds with increasing volume. (Exodus 19:18 -20, 20:18)
- People were fearful of the vehicle. (Exodus 20:18)
- The platform/cloud descends and hovers. (Exodus 33:9, 34:5, Numbers 12:5)
- The platform/cloud ascends. (Exodus 40:36)
- God broadcasts his voice from the platform/cloud. (Exodus 33:9, 34:5, Psalms 99:7)
- The people follow the platform wherever it led them and was always with them. (Exodus 40:36-38, Numbers 9:17-18, 10:34, Nehemiah 9:19)
- The cloud provides shade and light. (Numbers 9:16)
- The platform/cloud hovers above the group for days, months and even up to a year. (Numbers 9: 22)
- The cloud takes off and lands. (Numbers 10:11-12)
- The vehicle protects the people. (Numbers 14:14)
- The platform/cloud scouts ahead for places that the Hebrews will rest. (Deuteronomy 1:33)
Elijah's and Elisha's Whirlwinds and Chariots of Fire
Elijah and Elisha encounter a great number of chariots of fire in the sky and Elijah is taken up into a chariot of fire by a whirlwind. This occurs in the face of confrontation with an army pursuing them, which they defeat and take prisoner with the help of this strange fleet. This can be found in the second and sixth chapters of 2 Kings.
Ezekiel's Whirlwind and Great Fire
The first and tenth chapters of Ezekiel and other verses describe at least two separate encounters with the vehicle, as well as face-to-face encounters with beings and divine abductions. The close nature of these encounters provides the most thorough description of the physical devices, brilliance, and material composition of the flying craft of Yhovah. This can be found in the first and tenth chapters of Ezekiel.
The Most Ignored Close Encounter - The Transfiguration
The incident commonly called the Transfiguration is an account of an encounter Jesus and three apostles have with a bright hovering craft and two "men" from that craft. Transfiguration refers to the change of the appearance of Jesus that the apostles witness as he is having this encounter. The question almost never asked is, what caused this change? If one examines the entire incident, a rather familiar scenario develops. Jesus is up on a mountain just before his crucifixion, late at night, and the apostles are awakened from a deep sleep. There is a bright object overhead and suddenly Jesus turns a radiant white. Two men appear out of the object and talk to Jesus about his impending death. These men then are taken back up into the object and a voice is broadcast from the object. The answer to what caused the change in appearance is a light beam from that glowing object, the beam that transported the two men to and from the ground. This the same light, "brighter than the sun", that Paul speaks of in Acts 22. The same effect is seen when a helicopter shines its search light on the ground, everything turns white. And, the same effect is seen in pictures and movies of encounters with UFOs. The place of the transfiguration was probably Mount Hermon and not Mount Tabor as is commonly thought. This encounter is described by each of the three Gospel authors, Matthew 17:1-8; Mark 9:2-8; Luke 9:28-36. Forty years after the event Peter recalls it, 2 Peter 1:16-18.
The Revelation Of John
From the beginning to the end, the vision of the future given to John is a high-tech, high-flying scenario. It is his testimony of the end times from the perspective that Jesus shows him, complete with a description of the inside of the command vessel. John has a front row seat during the conquest of Earth and the defeat of the armies of mankind that Satan has amassed to fight the Second Coming. This can be found in the first chapter of The Revelation. | |
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| It turns out that you're in the wrong religion...
Posted: 12/7/2006 10:25:29 AM | TheWayHome points out that nearly all mainstream religious tenants are similar, serving a practical ethical guides to the integration of spiritual philosophy in our everyday decisions, our personal and social interactions. Thus, no "one religion" is the truest or best.
Read my post in this thread:
http://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts6011638.aspx
I discuss important physiological reasons for adhering to spiritual belief and religious practices. | |
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| It turns out that you're in the wrong religion...
Posted: 12/7/2006 1:54:08 PM | For the purposes of this thread, I think it's very important that we remember that Christianity, at least in the Protestant sense, is a relationship between the Christian and Christ with the church and it's structure being supplemental.
Therefore I think ( well I certainly hope) that one can be going to the "wrong" church and still get things right with God. Likewise you can switch churches without switching to a whole new theology.
However much I do agree with GEH saying that sometimes the particular reasons for choosing a particular church seem sort of shallow and weak...it's just that the physical church and some denominational abstractions can easily be overlooked if a person feels welcomed and cared about. | |
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| It turns out that you're in the wrong religion...
Posted: 12/7/2006 7:58:13 PM | newwayhome, fantastic post - thanks for answering my questions. I'm guessing that my spate of queries doesn't much apply to your situation - sounds like you've done your homework. You can skip ahead.
lady-fair: I read the Hobbit first, so where does that leave me? It's been awhile...The Shire? Yeah, you're 5'4"...you'd fit.
Cometchc: What about this as a possibility? Absolutely not relevant; this isn't a discussion where one tries to prove the right religion.
And Can It Be: ...I am saying that I am very committed to finding a church with SOUND doctrine. Sound doctrine...that's all I wanted to hear. Thank you.
The only people who are true believers are those who have been regenerated. All the others who are interested in religion and have a token interest or belief in God are unbelievers. Regenerated? Reborn? Born-again? I don't understand...please enlighten me.
Sorry to be so blunt. We've talked before - at your worst, you're still more polite than me. Don't worry about it - your blunt is not my blunt.
Sombient: I discuss important physiological reasons for adhering to spiritual belief and religious practices. Yes, thank you, and I agree that the physiological effect from religions is generally positive and helpful. It's good if you can get it. I'm jealous of those who do...but I'm asking whether that necessarily fits in with God's plan. In other words, maybe we're here to learn how to deal with hardship before an eternal afterlife of better things. Our hardship here being but a drop in the eternal bucket or whatever metaphor one wants to force in here.
Mister Right: Therefore I think ( well I certainly hope) that one can be going to the "wrong" church and still get things right with God. If there is indeed a Christian God, then I think that this is a realistic expectation.
newwayhome, start reading again here:
The JWs, and others, ask me what it would take for me to believe and to move away from Atheism. I tell them I don't know. Proof of a miracle is proof of God? The Agnostic part of me can't imagine what that proof would be. I'd bet good money that I'm paranoid enough to think that I was going crazy before I believed in a god. Well, no - I'm sure that a god would be pretty convincing and gentle and patient and stuff. However, we'd probably butt heads over whether a busty woman's top flying off is proof of a miracle and thus a deity. Anyway, my point being that I'm open (and eager) to being convinced of a deity and afterlife, but I honestly don't know what proof I would accept - except that it's not going to come from scripture. I try to convince the nice JWs of that, but they aren't convinced. Honestly, I am often inspired by their perseverance. Here's what I'm interested in though:
What would it take for you to switch to a vastly different religion or denomination - one in which you logically believed, but one in which you also physically, financially, or mentally suffered? (You're a woman and no women are allowed in the clergy, allowed to show any skin, etc) (You're gay and...well, the list is long here) (Your job opporunities are vastly diminished because of your religion) In other words...
What would you give up for your religion?
GE&H | |
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| It turns out that you're in the wrong religion...
Posted: 12/7/2006 8:55:28 PM | I just don't happen to believe because something in me requires proof and I haven't found it.
isn't that the definition of AGNOSTIC? SHOW me and I'll believe? makes you 100% ag or covering your bases anyhow.
I have so many Q's it puts me in the same pond too. I wish it were so easy to JUST believe.
My parents have very strong faiths and ALL of my uncles on my Dad's side are ministers but yet I still struggle. | |
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| It turns out that you're in the wrong religion...
Posted: 12/8/2006 8:22:26 AM | What would you give up for your religion?
Too broad, I don't understand the question.
What would I give up for my mosque?
What would I give up for God?
What would I give up in the name of my faith?
Versus what have I already given up for all of the above?
I've given up a lot of things that I loved doing... drugs, promiscuous sex.
I've let go of a lot of arrogance and pride.
I gave up my firm belief in atheism, a belief that I so ingrained in my daughter that it may take the rest of my life to undo.
I've given up being close to my family in Florida to be close to my family (the mosque) here in South Carolina, which is much more in need of my help then the mosque in Tampa.
The list of what I've given up could go on, but all I really have left to give is my life, which really sounds like a cop out, because dying is easy... unless of course you're facing the prospect of being boiled alive in scalding hot oil.... or maybe dying isn't as easy as I think, seeing as I haven't done it yet... how would I know?
Assalaamu alaikum, merry christmas, and happy yule,
Michael | |
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| It turns out that you're in the wrong religion...
Posted: 12/8/2006 10:50:41 AM |
whodeletedme: isn't that the definition of AGNOSTIC? SHOW me and I'll believe? makes you 100% ag or covering your bases anyhow. I don't believe that there's a god or gods, but I'm open to the idea. I don't know what proof I'd accept or if it's even provable. The definitions that I found make that 'Weak Atheist & Agnostic'. Call it what you like.
NewWayHome:Too broad, I don't understand the question. Still, your interpretation was valid. That's some of what I was asking for.
The actual question I had in mind was a series of questions like:
Would you, as a woman, choose to be in a religion/denomination that didn't treat women as equals to men if you thought it was the truest religion?
One could change "woman" to black, gay, non-Jewish, crippled, etc.
And Can It Be: I suggest to you that the courage, faith, love, patience, hope, gentleness, meekness, etc. of God's people is sufficient to show you that it is not of human origin. I humbly counter-suggest that it can be, as it seems to be fairly equal across all religions and the non-religious.
re: martyrs
Yes, there are many examples of Christian martyrs. As well, there are many examples of Buddhist, Muslim, Atheist and other martyrs. As well, many examples of many who died anonymously or suffered quietly for a cause.
From all the people who I've met, I can't honestly say that no religious type (which includes non-religious) is consistantly any better, more successful, happier, nicer, more helpful, more sacrificing, etc than any other. In certain areas some are stronger, but usually lack something in different areas. I would, however, hazard to guess that most cults have a smaller positive element and a larger negative element.
The only people who I tend to rank higher are the ones who are open-minded and can discuss their situation rationally.
GE&H | |
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| It turns out that you're in the wrong religion...
Posted: 12/8/2006 2:09:14 PM | heheh I don't think it's fair to ask a man, what he would do, if he were a woman. Since, of course, he isn't one.
That's like asking me if I'd be a horndog if I were man... I've got no clue, cause i'm not one :P
And, since a good number of women DO follow faiths that do not treat women equal to men, and a good number of women DON'T... it's kind of a loaded question...I think
But that's just me. :P | |
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| It turns out that you're in the wrong religion...
Posted: 12/8/2006 3:08:52 PM | That why I said "...series of questions like..." It could be a gay person in an old-school church that didn't allow/approve of gays. It could be like NewWayHome and be the only white guy in the congregation of the mosque.
I don't see how it's a loaded question.
GE&H | |
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| It turns out that you're in the wrong religion...
Posted: 12/8/2006 7:14:35 PM | but I'm asking whether that necessarily fits in with God's plan. In other words, maybe we're here to learn how to deal with hardship before an eternal afterlife of better things. Our hardship here being but a drop in the eternal bucket or whatever metaphor one wants to force in here.
Let me put it plainly.
Its part of gods plan. We're meant to have a balanced yin/yang chemistry in our brains.
Chronic stress punctuated with acute episodes, reduced coping skill set, hopelessness, feeling out of control at the hands of the uncaring fates, unrelenting fear and a life of bone wearying drudgery.
This was life for century upon century for the common man. The place of worship offered release, a place to ease burdens for a while, to listen to calming chant and uplifting singing. Scant few hours of time away from back breaking slog of day to day life.
Remember, 7-days a week of hard toil was the norm before this past century for all buy the wealthy and powerful.
Don't you understand? This effect, to counter the tearing down processes of oxidation - a double edge sword for all life on earth, evolved into a balanced mechanism for function of the brain - long, long before mankind ever walked the earth.
That's the primary effect of the fight or flight chemistry of higher organisms - the stress response is oxidative. It's even called oxidative stress. Its an instant demand for more energy metabolism in cells. That that has a price in for formation of free radicals. Our cells combat those free radicals with that yang chemistry.
The antecedents of this yin yang chemistry are found in the earliest lifeforms with a brain and spinal chord. In humans, with their higher thinking processes - the stress load can double that of the primitive brains of our distant mammalian ancestors.
This is critically important to understand. You need all the help you can get in managing and mitigating the effects of stress.
Our mistake: To shuck of spirituality and religious practice as superfluous activities and obligations.
Bah! Far from it!
Look you, at the rates of cancer, obesity, diabetes, mental disease, immune and intestinal disorders. Skin diseases, problems with improper hormone balance, of dysfunctioning livers, muscle and brain. These are the ills of an overstressed, over-excited, and over fed population.
Look at our crime rates, look at the apathy of the people, their ease of manipulation, their carelessness of personal and social responsibility.
It takes great wrongs, great disasters to shake our insular world, to cause us to look farther than our own puny mortality, beyond our comfortable white picket fence suburbanite lives.
Like sleep walkers, we fall right back into our habitual moral and ethical fog.
I am telling you this: the greatest ill you can do your body is to ignore the balm of meditation and prayer, its ability to force cohesion and positive social interactions so necessary for large number of peoples to live together amicably.
Rather than not needing it any more, not only has science provided substantial evidence for a founding and unifying force that we might god...it has revealed that spirituality and its religious practice is as necessary to our survival as breathing.
Hear me: The need for spiritual and religious practice is necessary for the safe functioning of our some 23,000 individual genes, in the control of their activation and expression. It is necessary for basic human survival due to man's higher brain functioning. This is why animals do not have religion...and we do.
You cannot go "balls to the wall" and not pay a price. We're seeing it, in our children, the first generations to be born into this world of haphazard or null spiritual belief and practice. We see it, in our present adult population, rife with disease, depression, and feelings of hopeless and lack of direction, meaning in life.
Between the conception
And the creation
Between the emotion
And the response
Falls the Shadow
Life is very long
Between the desire
And the spasm
Between the potency
And the existence
Between the essence
And the descent
Falls the Shadow
For Thine is the Kingdom
For Thine is
Life is
For Thine is the
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.
The Hollow Men T. S. Eliot (1925)
http://www.cs.umbc.edu/~evans/hollow.html | |
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| It turns out that you're in the wrong religion...
Posted: 12/8/2006 7:26:25 PM | I didn't realise that there was such a thing as a wrong religion, however odious it may seem to one's sensibilities....
People are where they're at for a reason, according to my beliefs. They're there to grow, to experience another way of being human and connecting to their own divine. The trick is to learn, to grow ever closer to the Creator. Mostly all religions practice the same tenets, we're all just going about it in different ways.
Cheers! | |
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| It turns out that you're in the wrong religion...
Posted: 12/9/2006 1:09:15 AM |
I didn't realise that there was such a thing as a wrong religion, however odious it may seem to one's sensibilities....
I sure picked the wrong one. Oh Great Flying Spaghetti Monster, WHY hast thou forsaken me?!?!?! WHY?!?!? | |
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