| It's not about Iraqi Oil?
Posted: 4/5/2005 8:31:34 PM | from: http://www.washtimes.com/business/20050315-120755-8864r.htm
"...Through 15 years of conflict and sanctions, major oil companies never lost sight of Iraq's massive reserves -- the world's second-largest after Saudi Arabia. Efforts to form the nation's first elected government in more than half a century are making the prospect of major contracts more tantalizingly real, even if that government could still be more than a year away..." | |
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| It's not about Iraqi Oil?
Posted: 4/5/2005 8:37:14 PM | | So what? Are you maintaining that major oil companies should have spent the last fifteen years ignoring the fact that Iraq has the world's second largest reserves of oil? | |
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| It's not about Iraqi Oil?
Posted: 4/5/2005 8:43:20 PM | | Yawn. It's the same topic every few days. Actually, it's usually the same inflammatory title, followed by an innocuous blurb about how Iraq has oil. Like we didn't know... | |
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| It's not about Iraqi Oil?
Posted: 4/6/2005 5:02:32 AM | I'm sure that the Iraqi people who have been in depression for years aren't excited about the possibility of selling their country's only viable resource to improve their living conditions.
Since Iraq is a member of OPEC no one will be getting any deals. Their oil will be sold at market value dictated by OPEC. Some deal America got, the US spends billions in dollars and hundreds in lives only to have to stand in line at OPEC watching the oil prices like every one else in the world has to.
I can see why the morons....errrr...some people think we did this all for oil.... | |
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| It's not about Iraqi Oil?
Posted: 4/7/2005 3:07:37 AM | Well it wasn't exactly done for Weapons of Mass Destruction,because none were ever found before U.S went into Iraq,and to this day none have been found.There was no need for America to go into Iraq,they never once did anything to you guys,it's Alquada that did.I agreed with the war in Afganistan but I don't agree with what is going on in Iraq.I can't think of any reason other then oil for Bush want his military to go in there.
You can't just go into a country for no reason and not expect anything to happen in future,blame Bush for that just because he's oil hungry.Several American soldiers have died because of him. | |
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| It's not about Iraqi Oil?
Posted: 4/7/2005 6:13:24 AM |
Well it wasn't exactly done for Weapons of Mass Destruction,because none were ever found before U.S went into Iraq,and to this day none have been found.
None?
You are ignorant of the subject then, while there were no major stockpiles discovered there certainly were some WMD found. | |
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| No WMD?
Posted: 4/7/2005 6:14:14 AM | | We never found WMD? I find it hard to believe that there are people still so ignorant they cant figure out why we went into Iraq. Was it perhaps the modified Al Samoud 2 scud missiles found near and in Baghdad on 4/14/03. Capable of having a nuclear or chemical warhead fitted to them their maximum effective range was 193 to 200 km. 150 km was the UN's permitted range restriction. Or how about the chemical agents Sarin, Tabun and the blister agent Lewisite found in Kerbala on the same date? Oh, and look at that the warning labels on the canisters was in french...I'm shocked. | |
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| No WMD?
Posted: 4/7/2005 7:37:45 AM | | The lefty Bush haters are the most pig ignorant morons on the face of the earth.The one and only reason why democracy is growing in the middle east,which is the only solution to ending the intractable problems of the middle east, is the presence of the U.S. armed forces and their coalition partners. | |
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| No WMD?
Posted: 4/7/2005 7:58:04 AM |
The one and only reason why democracy is growing in the middle east,which is the only solution to ending the intractable problems of the middle east, is the presence of the U.S. armed forces and their coalition partners.
This is true... and the only way we'll ever find out if the people THERE want our type of government is when we leave.
Also... why didn't Bush step in and "defend Democracy" in Haiti instead of sending M-16s to rebels there who wanted to overthrow the democratically elected president of that nation and then send American soldiers to kidnap him and take him to Central Africa?
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| No WMD?
Posted: 4/7/2005 10:44:04 AM | | And don't forget Libera and Venezula. | |
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| No WMD?
Posted: 4/7/2005 7:13:11 PM |
Was it perhaps the modified Al Samoud 2 scud missiles found near and in Baghdad on 4/14/03. Capable of having a nuclear or chemical warhead fitted to them their maximum effective range was 193 to 200 km. 150 km was the UN's permitted
You do realize you have included quite a few qualifiers in your post?
No, we did not go into Iraq for Scuds.
Extended range Scuds may have been in violation but not of a magnitude to justify the invasion as a means of enforcing it.
If you can prove me wrong by language in the Congressional record or UN 1441, I would give my full attention to reading it.
Regarding "Capable of having a nuclear or chemical warhead fitted to them"
I understand the confusion you face with this above.
It is a misunderstanding in the use of language. The writers inclusion of the word "capable" is a qualifier in this case, and means what might be possible. That however is wholly different than language that speaks of "capability" in the context of being extant, fully armed and ready.
So I guess I would like to see how you you come up with that as a stipulative rationale, speculative possibilities were not the rationale offered, the rather specific language was of active nuclear development and capability.
Or how about the chemical agents Sarin, Tabun and the blister agent Lewisite found in Kerbala on the same date? Oh, and look at that the warning labels on the canisters was in french...I'm shocked.
Might this be a case of older hardware that might have been missed wherein it was simply forgotten and now inactive, considering Saddam's one time large stockpiles of chemical agents?
I mention this because a few months ago I remember where an IED was discovered to contain chemical agents, but the army said it was from obsolete stockpiles and chemically inert. It was their conclusion that the "badguy" that created the device was probably unaware it contained the chemical agent.
Or are you claiming this was a discovery of an a***nal of significant magnitude, in terms of development, quantity, and active utility to have mass destructive capability?
If that is the case then it certainly would have justified the invasion, and given Bush damning proof that his speculations were correct, but I have never heard about it.
I find it hard to believe that there are people still so ignorant they cant figure out why we went into Iraq.
In this we totally agree. | |
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| No WMD?
Posted: 4/7/2005 7:40:27 PM | | Meh. If you don't think we were justified in going in solely based on the atrocities committed by Saddam's regime, then I have no interest in trying to convince you it was justified based on SCUDs or WMDs or cotton candy. Personally, I'm glad that Bush has the compassion to ignore people who will find every justification in the world to NOT save innocent lives. | |
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korky
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Joined: 12/4/2004
Msg: 14 | |
| NO WMD.
Posted: 4/7/2005 9:20:21 PM | WHO EVER WEILDS THE BIGGEST STICK WILL BULLY AND CONTROL.
FACT!!!! The USA has gone to war more than fifty times since it became a Republic, attacking any country or people that didn't adhere to its Idiosyncrasy. They have killed more people than any other country in the name of Democracy. To name just a few, they killed each other in a civil war, killed, abused and tortured Black people, killed and taken the land from the American Indian and Mexicans. From there they moved across the Pacific to Kill 500,000 Phillipinos and control their country, over two million Koreans, five million Vietnamese, one million Japanese with an Atomic bomb, a million Germans, thousands of Chinese, close to a million Iraqis and at least several million in smaller countries. Now tell me does any other country have a record of this autocracy and you can't understand why the Americans are hated like poison around the world----- is it because they give these countries their freedom or is it that they control, rape and steal another countries natural resources and use them for cheap labour. You be the judge but I'm sure your ignorance wouldn't allow you to see this.
I would suggest you read "ADDICTION TO WAR" or "MANIFEST DESTINY" on the net and maybe it will open your eyes. | |
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| NO WMD.
Posted: 4/7/2005 10:08:04 PM | lol, korky
http://www.nndb.com/people/380/000086122/ | |
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| No WMD?
Posted: 4/8/2005 4:42:19 AM | If you can prove me wrong by language in the Congressional record or UN 1441, I would give my full attention to reading it.
You should have read UN 1441 carefully the first time out and you would have seen that there were going to be "serious consequences" for Iraq's continued defiance of the 16 previous Resolutions. Since Iraq was already sanctioned to the hilt, just what do you think "serious consequences" meant? We would wait 16 more years asking them nicely?
As for WMD, I've posted the links many, many times here. They were found in Iraq. The Polish soldiers found some chemical warheads (active ones), there were Ricin factories discovered, there were large quantities of cyanide found, as well as the banned Al Sammoud missiles.
There is no question that the World's Intelligence agencies got the amounts of WMD Iraq had wrong. There are STILL unanswered questions though. Like what happened to all the WMD Iraq declared to the UN in the first Gulf War Cease Fire? Where did all those WMD go? Even Iraq states they had them, there were no records of any kind proving they were ever destroyed.
If you shut your eyes tight enough, you'll be able to miss all the facts though... | |
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| No WMD?
Posted: 4/8/2005 5:40:52 AM |
WHO EVER WEILDS THE BIGGEST STICK WILL BULLY AND CONTROL.
FACT!!!! The USA has gone to war more than fifty times since it became a Republic, attacking any country or people that didn't adhere to its Idiosyncrasy. They have killed more people than any other country in the name of Democracy. To name just a few, they killed each other in a civil war, killed, abused and tortured Black people, killed and taken the land from the American Indian and Mexicans. From there they moved across the Pacific to Kill 500,000 Phillipinos and control their country, over two million Koreans, five million Vietnamese, one million Japanese with an Atomic bomb, a million Germans, thousands of Chinese, close to a million Iraqis and at least several million in smaller countries. Now tell me does any other country have a record of this autocracy and you can't understand why the Americans are hated like poison around the world----- is it because they give these countries their freedom or is it that they control, rape and steal another countries natural resources and use them for cheap labour. You be the judge but I'm sure your ignorance wouldn't allow you to see this.
I would suggest you read "ADDICTION TO WAR" or "MANIFEST DESTINY" on the net and maybe it will open your eyes.
you got your numbers all mixed up bro sorry but i cant help but laugh. | |
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| NO WMD.
Posted: 4/14/2005 5:31:59 AM | "The War of 1812 is one of the forgotten wars of the United States. The war lasted for over two years, and while it ended much like it started; in stalemate; it was in fact a war that once and for all confirmed American Independence. The offensive actions of the United States failed in every attempt to capture Canada."
You forgot to mention this war. It is another war the Americans fought in a failed attempt to rule the world. Wow, they could not take Vietnam, Korea, or as it appears Iraq. Even Canada fought them to a draw. Some Super Power. Hee Hee Hee | |
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| NO WMD.
Posted: 4/14/2005 5:52:39 AM |
Some Super Power. Hee Hee Hee
Yeah, too bad we own everything 'eh'?
;) | |
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| NO WMD.
Posted: 4/14/2005 6:59:45 AM | korky
That our nation has made mistakes and sometimes used force to foster our own interests nobody can deny. But your list includes several wars which were foisted upon us, while you include them as if we instigated and wanted them.
WWII, with Germany and Japan, two govt's which came as close to the personification of evil as any in history. Korea, where the North's aggression cost us not only a three-year war but the last 50 years of standing firm at the DMZ to prevent another. And China sided with North Korea, so negate them as well.
As a Southerner I probably have a different view of the causes of the Civil War, but as a nation we paid a blood-price of half a million dead for the sin of slavery. More Americans died in that war than all of our other wars combined, a terrible price was paid for the evil of slavery, reparations in blood.
As for the rest of the world, I have been to 41 countries on four continents and the vast majority of the people I met like us just fine. There are some who do hate us, and there are many who are resentful of us and concerned about the direction our leadership has taken, as is their right as citizens of the world.
MajMike | |
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| NO WMD.
Posted: 4/14/2005 7:48:46 AM | GUNBOAT DIPLOMACY
Since 1945 the US intervened on average once every 18 months somewhere in the world.
1950 Korea
1953 Iran
1954 Guatemala
1958 Lebanon
1959 Thailand
1959 Laos
1961 Cuba
1963 British Guiana
1964 South Vietnam
1964 Brazil
1965 Dominican Rep.
1968 Cambodia
1968 Laos
1973 Chile
1975 Jamaica
1981 Nicaragua
1983 Grenada
1984 Lebanon
1986 Libya
etc., etc., etc. | |
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korky
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Joined: 12/4/2004
Msg: 22 | |
| NO WMD.
Posted: 4/14/2005 3:21:16 PM | | Thanks oldtoothlessguy for the back up---- Canada even burned down the Whitehouse | |
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korky
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Joined: 12/4/2004
Msg: 23 | |
| I agree somewhat with you
Posted: 4/14/2005 4:40:12 PM | Majmike, sorry I'm not trying to upset you or your fellow Americans, I think the American people are wonderful and they have proved it with their kindness to me when I go there on a holiday. Its your crazy government that bothers me. They lead you by the nose and you believe everything they tell you. They want to control the world and will do anything to attain it, (The New World Order) like stirring up trouble to give them an excuse to invade and set up puppet governments for their own gain. Did you know that George Bush's grandfather backed and supplied Hitler with equipment and steel for their war machine during WW2. Your government had to step in to stop him. Georgy and his dad rubs shoulders with the Saudis in the oil business to fianancially serve their bank account. I could supply you with history that you don't even know exists. Majmike, we as Canadians who live in the far North are one of the more educated people on this Continent that study world History and Geography. If I asked an American to tell me about Canada they wouldn't know where to begin, they think we live in igloos and still fight Indians. Did you know we have almost as much oil in our Tar Sands as the Middle East. We are the pride of all nations that admire our contribution to world peace through diplomacy. Your government only knows how to bulldoze its way into other countries through arrogance and intimidation while keeping you in a frenzy. Believe me it will eventually backfire on your great country.
I say, God Bless America because you will need it if you keep on this path. The nukes will be flying soon because you have a Hitler at your controls. | |
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| NO WMD.
Posted: 4/14/2005 6:10:43 PM | Yeah, too bad we own everything 'eh'?
Actually Japan owns all your papers. (debt) ;)
Beter hope they don't "call" hu. Bye bye every economy; hello change.
And P.S. World War 2 was one America very much wanted to stay out. They had to attack; people were calling for them AND the Germans bombed one of their cruisleines..it was inescapable.
That being said: the US really needs to better thier own peoples situations and worry about their own country a little more. | |
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| I agree somewhat with you
Posted: 4/14/2005 7:41:34 PM | korky
I am glad you have pride in your country, as well you should. Canada is a great country and has much to be proud of.
I have to say that I don't see myself as "led by the nose", nor do I believe everything they tell me, and I don't think most Americans are that way. Also, I (and most POFers) are well aware of Prescott Bush's involvement with the NAZI party (thx2Elwood), as well as many more of our wealthy at that time (Ford, Rockefeller, etc). I am also aware of Dubya's dealings with the House of Saud, I think anyone big into the oil industry has probably had to deal with them at one time or another.
While I agree that some in the current administration are overzealous in their promotion of democracy through force, if their vision is realized the naysayers will have some crow to eat. We went to war under false ideas, there was (essentially) no WMD, at least none as a 'clear and present danger' to us. Our intel was piss-poor and we need to admit that (Bush does). BUT, if the fledgling democracy in Iraq takes hold and grows into their culture as the elections and subsequent political appointments have so far shown it can, democracy in the Middle East is a real possibility and will be a victory for the whole world, not just the US.
Only time will tell for sure, and I've been told I'm an optimist, so I guess we'll just wait and see.
MajMike | |
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