| Which man??
Posted: 4/6/2005 6:46:35 AM | A man who lived in the mountain sides, oblivious of God. This man lived his life caring for his fellow man and being loyal to and would sacrifice anything for his wife. He lived a simple life, but a satisfied life because he had love to give and is loved by others.
Another man spend his life in prayers in the church because he feared god and feared going to hell. He did God's will - gave to the poor, did good to his neighbors, etc - so that he may pleases God and go to heaven, thus avoids a trip to hell.
Which one really deserves to go to heaven? | |
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| Which man??
Posted: 4/6/2005 6:54:26 AM | | The Bible is pretty clear that none of us deserve to go to Heaven. "All have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God". One who really knows God and gives to the poor, helps his neighbor, etc, would probably do so subconsiously. If someone did "good" just out of fear of going to hell, I would question if they actually knew God. | |
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| Which man??
Posted: 4/6/2005 6:59:03 AM | | a man's value is not measured by works, but by worth | |
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| Which man??
Posted: 4/6/2005 7:40:24 AM |
a man's value is not measured by works, but by worth
...And its relevance to the post is...? Please clarify yourself. | |
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| Which man??
Posted: 4/6/2005 7:41:52 AM | | the second man used works to please god, but inside he may be worthless; whereas the first man has more worth, because he did good to make people happy. | |
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craww
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Joined: 2/16/2005
Msg: 6 | |
| Which man??
Posted: 4/6/2005 7:43:41 AM | oblivious of god?
how does one live in the mountains, and be oblivious of god?..... god's qualities are seen from the creation on.
when you talk about ''love of neighbor'', that love is because mankind is not like the animals.
which one deserves to go to heaven?.... they are both equal........ in the next life, the growing process will continue, and more wisdom will be learned by those seeking it.
the truth will become more clear. | |
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| Which man??
Posted: 4/6/2005 7:46:41 AM | | RDtoo, you've made some good points. I guess what I'm asking is, which one of these men is heaven open to? It's my understanding that god and love are the same thing. So I'm curious whether the kingdom of heaven would be open for the first man who had no knowledge of god and had no idea that the bible existed, but lived a moral life and give himself to the services of others. | |
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| Which man??
Posted: 4/6/2005 7:52:10 AM |
the second man used works to please god, but inside he may be worthless; whereas the first man has more worth, because he did good to make people happy.
Ah, thanks. That's exactly what I thought, too - the first man is greater than the second man.
Oh, and Craww, maybe the first man didn't know where all the creation came from. How does he know that they're from God? What I mean by him being oblivious to God's existence, is that having lived in an isolated area where a small tribe lives a simple life of perhaps eating and hunting, going to sleep, and etc, they have no concept of God that we have here, and they still lives a content life. So since the first man is basically a good man, shouldn't he be allowed to go to heaven even if he had no conscious idea that God is up there? | |
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| Which man??
Posted: 4/6/2005 7:53:41 AM | according to the bible those who have never heard the truth will not be judge, but he who has heard the truth and denied it will be judged.
By that statement the man in the mountain would go to heaven by default | |
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| Which man??
Posted: 4/6/2005 7:57:24 AM | neither....
first dude doesn't even believe in that shit so it's not even an issue, but it's like he's tryin to make "heaven" on earth, so to speak(which there's nothin wrong with)
second dude doesn't deserve it either cuz he's livin his life that way according to "god" cuz he's afraid to go to "hell", he's not livin that way cuz he wants to, he's doin it outta fear! ****in ****!
ahaha | |
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craww
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Joined: 2/16/2005
Msg: 11 | |
| island people
Posted: 4/6/2005 8:17:59 AM | angielah,
tribes that have no interaction with the rest of the world are not ''atheist''.
they come up with their interpretaions of what is going on....... they believe in the spirit world.
it's not higher education that brings about a ''belief in god''........ you don't need higher education to have an experience out in the woods.
christians interpret ''heaven'' the way they feel like it, but humans have a lot of work to do yet, to refine themselves.............. the end results are still far far away.
in the next life it will all get clear. | |
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| Which man??
Posted: 4/6/2005 2:48:52 PM | | Those that know the truth will be judged by their faith and those that don't know will be judged by their conscience. Who will go to heaven? That is not for any of us to know or decide. God is the judge and decision maker. | |
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| Which man??
Posted: 4/6/2005 8:10:00 PM | | Angie, if a man had no knowledge of God then he really could not be held responsible for not giving homage. On the other hand, I did mention a story on here once about Helen Keller. Helen was born blind and deaf and lived in a world of her own. Because of the patience of one woman, communication was fianally established with her. Helen learned how to communicate and someone decided that it might be a good time to let her know about God. They brought someone in to communicate the concept of God to her, and she soon stopped them. Helen said "I've always known about Him, I just didn't know what you called Him". | |
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| Which man??
Posted: 4/7/2005 1:46:46 AM | It's not our place to judge who should go to heaven and who shouldn't.
Only that person knows the answer to that question. At least, that's my oppinion. That's their own personal relationship with God.. and how they interpret it. | |
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| Which man??
Posted: 4/7/2005 7:35:08 AM |
Helen said "I've always known about Him, I just didn't know what you called Him".
Wow, that truly is amazing! How did she know? I remember a friend of mine reading a book on Helen Keller for an english assignment...I'll look for that book in the library, thanks for telling me! | |
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| Which man??
Posted: 4/7/2005 9:40:45 AM | both of them obviously... if they both were good, helped others etc then hey are accepted in 'gods' eyes...
the proverb is man is not judged by his actions, but by the spirit in which he conducts them... | |
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| Which man??
Posted: 4/7/2005 1:52:22 PM | when jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurian came to him, asking for help. lord, he said my servent lies at home paralysed and in terriblesuffering. jesus said to him, i will go and heal him. The centurian replied, Lord i do not deserve to have you come under my roof. butjust say the word, and my servant shall be healed. for i myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one go, and he goes and this one come and he comes. i say to my servant to do this and he does it. when Jesus heard this, he was astonished and said to those following him. i tell you the truth, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith. i say to you that many will come from the east and the west and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, issac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. but the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then Jesus said to the centurian, go it will be done just as you believed it would. And his servant was healed that very hour. Jesus showed us the importance of faith even outwith the context of god. If you believe something , you do not need proof . It mattered not that the centurian may not have even known about god it was his faith that Jesus was impressed with. The answer to your question is. It is the man who recognises god who will go to him. | |
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| Which man??
Posted: 4/7/2005 3:36:40 PM | Hmmm. I have lived a good life, caring and giving. It's a shame I will go to hell if you are right. Also,
"All have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God".
Read: We are all s*** in god's eyes and deserve eternal damnation for bieng born. | |
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| Which man??
Posted: 4/8/2005 7:50:53 AM | | It depends, If the first guy didn't know any better, thats why he didn't accept Christ, that is different from someone who knows the way, but chooses to not accept. The Lord is harsher on ones that know better but choose to live thier own way. The Lord has mercy for the ignorant. | |
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| Which man??
Posted: 4/8/2005 10:47:48 AM | | the thing is all men HAVE NOT sinned...the church had drilled this into our heads in order to scare us and make us conform....what a terrible thing to make humanity guilty about being human. shame on the church, shame! | |
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| Which man??
Posted: 4/8/2005 11:34:26 AM | Agreed Dezzo, but it keeps the sheep in line.
The question here, who is the holier man, the one who is good by nature, or the one who is good out of desire, be it to avoid punishment or reap rewards?
One is a selfish motivation, one is not. One is more corruptable, one is not.
Both, however are generally good, and both points on a path to the same goal. Which is better? Who is to say? Which step is more worthy on a journey? The first, or the last? | |
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| Which man??
Posted: 6/30/2008 6:51:05 PM | I would say the second man should go to Heaven because he's had a life being tortured by anxiety and fear and deserves some compensation, or at least a holiday. If the carefree guy unexpectedly finds himself in Heaven after buying the farm one day, the culture shock of suddenly having to bow and scrape to all those divine types could be traumatic and distasteful. He has lived a higher quality Earthly life than the other chap, unencumbered by any undue mental stress and should therefore be content to rest out eternity in a pine box.
This answer depends on Heaven actually being a reasonable place when the second man gets there. If it's a run down, trailer park style mess with bad sanitation and lots of neighbour noise, I guess he might be better off under the sod in a plot next to the other guy. | |
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| Which man??
Posted: 6/30/2008 7:54:10 PM |
Which one really deserves to go to heaven? The one who didn't snore. | |
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| Which man??
Posted: 6/30/2008 11:13:01 PM |
A man who lived in the mountain sides, oblivious of God. This man lived his life caring for his fellow man and being loyal to and would sacrifice anything for his wife. He lived a simple life, but a satisfied life because he had love to give and is loved by others. ^^
it's like he's tryin to make "heaven" on earth Exactly... this man's life is full of love and joy.. NOW without any thought (presumably) to an afterlife...
Another man spend his life in prayers in the church because he feared god and feared going to hell. He did God's will - gave to the poor, did good to his neighbors, etc - so that he may pleases God and go to heaven, thus avoids a trip to hell. This man is motivated by fear... and it all sounds rather empty and hollow...
If there is an afterlife.. to my mind it just makes sense that it would be an extension of that which you lived and achieved while living...
To me heaven (love) and hell (fear) are consequences that we reap in THIS life through the choices that we make in each moment, we are the gatekeepers... why focus on the after when none of us will have any inkling whatsoever until the moment is upon us.. ? | |
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| Which man??
Posted: 7/1/2008 2:55:26 AM | Cool post Sassy, taking words outa me mouth gal! :)
OP
A man who lived in the mountain sides, oblivious of God. This man lived his life caring for his fellow man and being loyal to and would sacrifice anything for his wife. He lived a simple life, but a satisfied life because he had love to give and is loved by others.
I'm sure one does not need to know what "God" represents in order to live a morally good life... but hey, we are all learning. :)
Another man spend his life in prayers in the church because he feared god and feared going to hell. He did God's will - gave to the poor, did good to his neighbors, etc - so that he may pleases God and go to heaven, thus avoids a trip to hell.
This man has been indoctrinated, instilled with "the Fear of God", he's probably quite the fundamentalist! His choice was accept being dictated to...
Beds are made and need laying in I guess.
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