| Should "Ladies Night" at the bars be illegal?
Posted: 1/6/2007 1:59:30 PM | State sides with ladies night foe
By Katie Kerwin McCrimmon, Rocky Mountain News
January 5, 2007
A self-described "agitator’’ against feminism declared ladies nights at Colorado nightclubs dead today after prevailing in a civil rights complaint against The Proof NiteClub in southeast Denver.
Steve Horner learned Thursday that the Division of Civil Rights for the Department of Regulatory Agencies sided with him in his complaint that men were unfairly having to pay cover charges and higher drink prices than women at the Proof’s Ladies Nights.
"Ladies Night is now illegal,’’ said Horner, a 59-year-old corporate speaker, who says he’s been on an anti-feminist crusade since his wife left him with two young children several years ago and he regularly encountered discrimination against men.
Horner vowed to catch any club owners who continue to offer women special deals.
"This is now a violation of law. I will now make it a point to visit as many ladies nights as I can every week. I’ll have my rights violated, then I’ll sue them in county court and collect my $500 (each time),’’ Horner said. "I feel it could net me $3,000 to $4,000 a week easy and I’m going to do it. It takes me five minutes to be discriminated against.’’
While Horner asserted that the ruling applies to all nightclubs, state officials said rulings regarding discrimination in public accommodations apply only to the target of the complaint, not to all similar businesses.
Wendell Pryor, director of the state’s Division of Civil Rights for Regulatory Agencies, said confidentiality requirements prevent him from speaking about the specifics in any case. He said determinations of probable cause are rare. Once there is a determination, the two parties must try to work out their differences in mediation. If they can’t agree to a resolution, the case will go before the Colorado Civil Rights Commission, which will decide whether to pursue a discrimination case.
Karen Parker and Tim Bille, owners of The Proof, said vowed to fight back, in a written statement.
"It’s ridiculous that the Proof NiteClub has been singled out because we have a ladies night, when this is a common business practice among many night clubs in Denver and has been for years. We will continue to cooperate and move through the process. The Proof NiteClub has been a successful establishment in Denver for over 25 years and we plan to continue well into the future,’’ Parker and Bell wrote.
Jenn Barton, executive director of the Colorado Licensed Beverage Association, which represents some bar and tavern owners said her board would have to review the ruling.
"I think people are going to reconsider doing ladies nights because of his lawsuit,’’ Barton said.
Horner said the practice promotes special rights for women.
"I’m a major anti-feminist,’’ he said.
Horner said it’s ridiculous that people ask why he’s crusading against unfair treatment of men.
"If I was a black or a cripple or a Jew or a gay, you wouldn’t dare ask me that question,’’ Horner said. "I’m standing up for my civil rights.
Horner said he has "shut down" ladies nights in three other states — Minnesota, Idaho and Oregon. But, he conceded that the business practice soon reemerged. | |
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| Should Ladies Night at the bars be illegal?
Posted: 1/6/2007 2:12:45 PM | | I always thought that Ladies Nights was a way to get more single women to go to the nightclubs, since it seems the majority is men that hang out in bars? I think this guy should of been happy that he could meet women and only pay a buck for their drink if he wanted to buy them one. | |
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| Should Ladies Night at the bars be illegal?
Posted: 1/6/2007 2:36:32 PM | Sure - its discrimination - so is only women fitness clubs. Is it going to change - no.
Jenny M - men don't pay a buck for their drinks, only the women do. This means that the guy will pay vastly more for the same drink than the woman will, and this behaviour is quite predatorial by the bar owner. Equality cuts both ways - if you're willing to accept discrimination in this scenario, you should have no qualms about accepting being discriminated at work. | |
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| Should Ladies Night at the bars be illegal?
Posted: 1/6/2007 4:30:33 PM | | Thanks for clarifying that. I don't hang out in bars either, but wanted to know why this guy was so angry. I don't think I have ever heard anyone get upset over something like this. I know that our local sporting event places offer a ladies night and they give them discounted tickets. Again, I think it is to draw the women to a place that is mostly frequented by men and they are trying to create a balance. However, I think it would be an issue if the women got the discount all the time. Seems it is only one night of the week and the rest of the time they have to pay the same as men. | |
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| Should Ladies Night at the bars be illegal?
Posted: 1/6/2007 4:38:01 PM | | YES! It should be illegal. Its discrimination. You cant have your cake and eat it too. Unless you are a girl and want free drinks, then its okay to have some stupid sap buy em for you. I think the whole thing should be illegal. Have ladies night but have a mens night too, otherwise its not fair. Guys- if you have to resort to girls that are sloshed in order to pick them up then you are a loser. And if you are a girl who allows this to happen then please post a reply and the name of the bars you frequent. | |
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| Should Ladies Night at the bars be illegal?
Posted: 1/6/2007 4:54:15 PM | Look. first off... I'm no fan of modern feminism. far too much of it has little to do with equality, and more to do with vengance or just bad attitudes about men. BUT.... What this guy is doing is exactly the same thing under the guise of inequality. this guy is just Pi$$ed off and wants revenge! so...He is going after the first easy target he sees. I guess it happened to be this poor club. Boys. You can't have it both ways. You complain about no women in the bars...then you sue the bars for trying a creative scheme to actually get some women there. duh!
Does this represent some kind of discrimination? yes... in the most narrowly defined technical fashion. Is it worth making a fuss about? Are you kiddin me!!! Hell NO! Its exactly this kind of el-crapo that waters down and ruins the effectiveness in the important cases...where it really does matter! somebody needs to throw a bucket of ice water on this guy! ha. | |
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xamo
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Joined: 3/24/2006
Msg: 8 | |
| Should Ladies Night at the bars be illegal?
Posted: 1/6/2007 5:36:47 PM | | All legalities aside, this guy is hlarious and carrying on the fine american tradition of shit disturbing. How could anyone care less other than to laugh ? | |
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| Should Ladies Night at the bars be illegal?
Posted: 1/6/2007 5:54:32 PM | No,it should not be outlawed,and how dare anybody call the ladies that go to those clubs any kind of name?
I've met the sluttiest women there is out on the streets,those nights in general are a good way for women to go to a place and me to meet them. | |
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| Should Ladies Night at the bars be illegal?
Posted: 1/6/2007 6:16:51 PM | In response to msg 4... then it just makes it cheaper for the gals to buy the guys a drink, and as women typically will earn less on the payscale, it just gives some of them an opportunity to buy the guys drinks for a change LOL geesh guys quit complaining lol :) Besides if they stop ladies nights, then the wet t-shirt contests will be the next to go  | |
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| Should Ladies Night at the bars be illegal?
Posted: 1/6/2007 6:39:00 PM | It's a capitalist society, the club owners do what it takes to make their establishment successful. The more laws we create brings us this much closer to communism.
Some people get easily offended and those same people get angry because of jealousy. Look at yourself and what you are trying to acheive, your life is so insignificant that you try to get ladies night at the bars banned. Seriously find something better to do with your time.
If you don't like the ladies night concept at the bars, don't go. That's the best form of retaliation you can do. If everyone stops going then the bars stop offering it, but obviously that is not going to happen because there are enough people that want it.
People that oppose this should move to another country because they do not understand what this country is all about. | |
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| Should Ladies Night at the bars be illegal?
Posted: 1/6/2007 6:46:42 PM | The only reason why men go to the bar is to either look at women, or to pick up some a$$.... Which is why I wouldnt go to ladys night unless I was out with a group of ladys, or looking to get laid. for all the women and men that do like to exchange conversations and interact, ladys night would be the night to go out. why should it matter. okay, so they have mens night....Unless its a gay night club, I highly doubt the fact that the club will be full. They have a ladys night for one reason and one reason only. A bar is interseted in making money and bringing in business.The best way to bring in a group of sexy women, is to have a ladys night. If you find it discriminating, then go out on another night. Women are sexy. thats all there is to it.
personally, when the bar is filled with men I leave.
If you have a problem with it, then why walk in. Go somewhere else instead. | |
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| Should Ladies Night at the bars be illegal?
Posted: 1/6/2007 7:01:47 PM | | i've been against anything of this nature for quite some time now. it's discrimination at it's purest where women get a lower price for anything just because they are female. tom | |
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chinua
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Joined: 9/30/2005
Msg: 14 | |
| Should Ladies Night at the bars be illegal?
Posted: 1/6/2007 7:37:10 PM | maybe it makes up for women paying more for haircuts and drycleaning( there's other stuff too, just can'tthink of it at the moment)??? If you guys think that ladies night is discrimination- the start paying full price for other things, and take a pay cut. | |
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chinua
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Joined: 9/30/2005
Msg: 16 | |
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| Should Ladies Night at the bars be illegal?
Posted: 1/6/2007 7:43:47 PM | | wow that guy is retarded.. like half the people who replied to this post said ladies night is to lure more females into the bars since there is usually way more guys than girls there... it's not meant to be sexist or anything like that.. in a capitalist society you do whatever you can to maximize profit and if the bars want more money they will make it so that more people will come to them.. and that's just one of the ways to do it. | |
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| Should Ladies Night at the bars be illegal?
Posted: 1/6/2007 7:56:55 PM | | I have a comment about ladies' nights. I'm guessing their purpose is to get more women into bars, using free drinks and/or free admission as a gimmick. As a result, more women do end up coming. However, I've had an easier time finding girls to dance with on a regular night than on a ladies' night. On most ladies' nights when I came to a club, I see more girls dancing with other girls than with guys. Kind of kills the purpose of the whole thing (from guys' point of view), doesn't it? | |
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| Should Ladies Night at the bars be illegal?
Posted: 1/6/2007 8:29:06 PM | It is and always has been a rather effecient way to get customers,....
the girls come,..and that usually brings more of the fellows,...simple!
now for those of you who think it should be outlawed,...
aren't there enough stupid laws already?,....
and BTW until females in general earn on average as much as the menfolk do
this is a fair equalizer,...and yes I know some do but few and far between and if you doubt this statistic why not work for H&R Block for the tax season ,....you'll see for yourself,...
plus many more women also have to shell out for a sitter at the end of the night,...
so I think worry about something more important in life,....
there is plent for you all to actually spend time worrying about,.... | |
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e-wok
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Joined: 9/25/2006
Msg: 20 | |
| Should Ladies Night at the bars be illegal?
Posted: 1/6/2007 8:32:23 PM | If all things were equal and there was no "ladies night", would women
still go out to clubs? Personally, I think so....so then, why do we even
have it? "ladies night" is something out of the '70's when
women didn't make enough coin as secretary's. Today they are
lawyers, doctors, chemists....let's pretend, at least, that women
can look after themselves economically.
plus many more women also have to shell out for a sitter at the end of the night,...
I don't think we're talking about white-trash night....can't afford the
cover charge? Raising a child? STAY HOME! | |
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| Should Ladies Night at the bars be illegal?
Posted: 1/6/2007 9:55:54 PM | I think that "ladies night" is and always will be a good marketing skill.
I understand the concept of it and this comes from someone who doesn't even go to bars. | |
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Keljo
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Joined: 12/28/2005
Msg: 22 | |
| Should Ladies Night at the bars be illegal?
Posted: 1/6/2007 10:21:20 PM | This is the most absurd thing I've heard in a while.
OK, so ditch the ladies night and then men will complain that the male to female ratio is bad.
There is a local bar that used to have high heels night. If you wore high heels, you drank for $1 from 10-midnight and didn't pay a cover. Men and women wore high heels. It was CLASSIC! My friends and I were intrigued by the men that were "man enough" to attempt to walk in heels and they were also the guys who got the most attention!! I guess it had something to do with their sense of humor about having to wear heels to drink cheaply. We always had a good time on those nights.
Of course, you didn't have to KEEP the heels on after midnight. Clubs and bars will just have to get more creative in marketing approach! | |
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| Should Ladies Night at the bars be illegal?
Posted: 1/6/2007 10:52:31 PM | This is a type of marketing. Men go to bars for women. Maybe not all men, but many many men do. It seems a little waste of time to make a huge deal out of men paying for a dollar more for a drink (but getting a bar full of women) when innate and institutionalized discrimination still exists. Its almost laughable. Woman have for centuries borne the brunt of discimination. Women still, on average in North America, recieve 30 cents less to every dollar men make in the same profesion. Women are still being sterotyped into careers and life decisions. Its still an insult to be called a P*ssy, because being feminine is equated to being weak, frivilous, and inferior. But a man to paying cover is an equal breach of civil rights. Am I the only one that sees this as petty?
And yes, you cannot deny the fact that it IS discrimination. But, then again, women deal with petty little discrimination all the time, and there are such larger ssues to address, like gay marriage. The American courts will allow for some guy to sue for not getting cheap drinks but won't allow gay marriage, a far more larger breach of civil rights. It is petty. If this man is really interested in male equality then maybe he should be spending his time workiing for the right for men to marry and love how they wish. Maybe he should worry about the unfair, at times unjust, and definate unequal treatmet of the poor men in every state of the United States. When that is all done then maybe they can band together and make some real headway into the pressing issue before us: How do men get a bar full of women AND cheap drinks at the same time? | |
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| Should Ladies Night at the bars be illegal?
Posted: 1/7/2007 12:00:15 AM | This example just illustrates the absurdity of discrimination laws in general. You can't cry about discrimination and then start making exceptions based on the the history of discrimination against the particular group invloved
Lets get rid of all these laws completely. If a bar wants to charge $10 for white men, $2 for white women, $3.50 for blacks, and $15 for jews who cares. This should be up to the bar owner and no one else.
For the cases of discrimination that are an actual injustice we can use persuasion and social pressure. We do not need to pass laws or waist the courts time with such issues.
Ryan | |
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| Should Ladies Night at the bars be illegal?
Posted: 1/7/2007 1:01:28 AM | Ladies night is, and always has been an advertizing ploy
by the bars, taverns, and clubs to draw a crowd.
For as long as there are tits to ogle, guys will stand
around gawkin' and drinkin. And will continue spending
money on booze, so they can gawk and drink some more.
Somewhat discriminatory. But more to do with being
lured in by the T&A show. The barkeep wants your money.
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