| Would you give up your gas guzzler to end the Gulf war
Posted: 1/19/2007 12:12:41 PM | | Given that the War in the Persian Gulf was all about securing future oil reserves for the western world would you give up your gas guzzlers and go electric or alternative fuel vehicle to remove our dependance on deals with despotic governments? | |
|
| |
| Would you give up your gas guzzler to end the Gulf war
Posted: 1/20/2007 4:31:26 AM | | Do I need to spell it out? so American and British soldiers don't need to risk there lives on foreign shores. There was a phrase prevalent in England during the second world war which I consider to more appropriate in todays selfish material world. " we all need to do our bit" | |
|
dmotz
|
Joined: 7/25/2006
Msg: 4 | |
| Would you give up your gas guzzler to end the Gulf war
Posted: 1/20/2007 7:33:49 AM | | Your assuming that the war is about oil. This is just another talking point from the anti war crowd. Would you give up your vehicle, no matter what it is to do your part? How about the trucking industry...want them to stop to? How about the airlines and trains...maybe we should all go to wood burning for our heat...knock down a few million more trees, Get my point? Oil is not the reason for this war. | |
|
Keljo
|
Joined: 12/28/2005
Msg: 5 | |
| Would you give up your gas guzzler to end the Gulf war
Posted: 1/20/2007 7:38:15 AM | I have a 4 cylinder small sedan and an 8 minute commute. Not worth the investment into a hybrid for me. I drive less than 3,000 miles a year and am emissions exempt.
If I every had to increase my commute significantly, a hybrid might be a consideration. | |
|
| Would you give up your gas guzzler to end the Gulf war
Posted: 1/20/2007 9:27:23 AM | | it wouldnt end the war on terror idiots. How about you stop using drugs? Thats where terror is funded. lol open your eyes. afghanistan=opium haven. trade routes for these drugs are interlocked throughout areas of operation in the middle east. so your cocaine habit or whatever is supporting the other side, not having a truck lol. | |
|
| Would you give up your gas guzzler to end the Gulf war
Posted: 1/20/2007 2:25:26 PM | [qoute]GM will pay for my gas for a year on my SUV.....Why downsize????? Hrm. Let's think on that.
1) Because you paid it when you baught it. GM is just taking more to give some back.
2) Next year.
3) Because the topic is "would you in order to end the gulf war", so I suppose the answer to "why" would be "to end the gulf war".
As for me: The car I drive around gets me about 35mpg in real driving. I'm not likely to replace it any time soon, but if I were, I'd seriously considerthe Toyota Yaris (EPA 40mpg).
I don't think that hybrids make sense in the sub-compact market (the real mileage on a Prius is in the low 40s, so no real advantage over a Yars, and not much over a corolla) especially given the higher costs, the likelyhood that the batteries will wear out in a decade, and the added envyronmental damage in both manufacture and disposal.
Electrical too simply moves the burden from the vehicle to the power grid (under the usually accurate belief that the power plants are cleaner and more efficient for the power given). | |
|
| Would you give up your gas guzzler to end the Gulf war
Posted: 1/20/2007 4:11:13 PM | I re-pose this question with the arbitrary and groundless supposition (although appropriate to the nature of the OP) that drastically lowering oil consumption across the board would, in fact end hostilities in the middle east.
In answer to which, I would if I drove an SUV, but terrorist and environmental concerns aside, I wouldnt buy one because I consider them pompous, wasteful, and of not much use considering the alternatives out there. However, I do drive a V8 but plan on getting a more fuel efficient vehicle as soon as this one is paid off. In fact, if I had the money, I would be buying the Tesla roadster as soon as it was on the market.
As for the drug trade being the primary economic fuel for terrorism (pun intended), how is that the case when the Opium production in Afghanistan had all but stopped under the Taliban, and then exploded after the UN invasion and subsequent occupation? Especially considering how we know fundamentalist Muslims regard drug use. And by the way, it's heroin that comes from the middle east. Cocaine comes from South America and the steady export of which is supposedly thanks to the CIA, but I digress.
Also, I have to say that the labelling of people as idiots for disagreeing with a groundless belief, completely unprovoked by someone specifically trained not to think for themselves is just a little bit uncalled for and hypocritical. Although it does nicely illustrate how the sense of purpose in this conflict has been pretty much lost entirely, in all corners. Of course I doubt this conflict would still be going on if everyone still had purpose at the forefront of their thinking.
| |
|
| Would you give up your gas guzzler to end the Gulf war
Posted: 1/20/2007 4:35:28 PM |
it wouldnt end the war on terror idiots. How about you stop using drugs? Thats where terror is funded. lol open your eyes. afghanistan=opium haven. trade routes for these drugs are interlocked throughout areas of operation in the middle east. so your cocaine habit or whatever is supporting the other side, not having a truck It's not the topic so I will make this short.
You are correct that a simple lack of dependancy on foreign oil would not end terrorism.
You are incorrect in the assertion that stopping drugs would (Afghanistan was not a source of opiates under the Taliban, it's only become a drug meccha since we installed the new government).
Terror is a mehod, not a cause. If you want to address the problem, you address the causes of the conflict in question... which are many. | |
|
| Would you give up your gas guzzler to end the Gulf war
Posted: 1/20/2007 5:36:27 PM | | My answer to the origional question is yes. I already have. If the rest of the american public had my buying habits, gasoline would be about a buck a gallon, Barnes and Noble and other bookstores would be much bigger than Wal-mart or K-Mart. Actually neither of those two would exist. No one would have ever heard of Home Depot, office depot or any other big box store. Toyota would not exist. I have never owned one. Well that is not likely to happen. | |
|
| Would you give up your gas guzzler to end the Gulf war
Posted: 1/20/2007 6:51:11 PM | | The wording of the original question while being simplistic has indeed provoked the subject of the Gulf war. I will add that I do not want to see Truckers off the road but I would like to see some real emphasis on fuel efficient vehicles for truckers and everyone. I would only consider an alternative fuel vehicle if it was a real alternative with the same cost, the same performance and reliability of my diesel sedan. But i was trying to get to the bigger picture. Why does the west meddle in far away countries issues? we after all trained, funded and supplied arms to Saddam while we thought he was a better bet than Iran. George Bush senior must have known the s..t storm that would be created by destroying Saddam in the original Gulf war (remember the mother of all retreats yet we stopped short of ousting saddam) and this brings me back to the original question which while simplistic really poses the question if we, the west were more efficient with resources, recycled in our home countries. would we need to broker so many deals in foreign countries that do not respect our way of life? Perhaps alot of these dissaffected people who are turning into terrorists are insensed by being ruled by the dollar, the euro or the pound. One thing is for certain a country being controlled from another country has never gone well, think of Great Britain ruling America, America waging war in vietnam, Russia in Afghanistan. the list is endless but the answer is always the same. Consider the resentment that we are now breeding in the arab world and also consider how you would feel if a foreign power was redefining your health and wealth and family life. I still believe that we have an absolute right to destroy terrorism however the scattergun approach will not work and the more we meddle in foreign affairs the more terrorists we make. So can we not be more sensible with resources and be more selective who we do business with? | |
|
| Would you give up your gas guzzler to end the Gulf war
Posted: 1/20/2007 7:13:19 PM | Yes, you are assuming that war in Iraq was for oil. In fact, it might have been. Our militaries dependancy on oil is a scary thing. However, you are assuming that the war in Iraq was ONLY for oil. There are many other reasons to go into Iraq than for just oil. I'm not sure electric is really that great of an alternative. It wouldn't work for some people, because they wouldn't have time to charge their car. On the other hand, I'm totally for finding alternate fuel sources. The thing is, it's not the civilians job to switch the U.S. over to alternate fuel sources. It's our government's job. If I go out and a buy a hybrid, electric, hydrogen, etc. I'm not going to do much.
As for comparing the U.S. to countries like the United Kingdom, that's not a fair comparison. The U.S.'s society depends on getting around a lot more than the U.K.'s society. Look at the size of the countries. Many people in the U.S. can't get a job without driving, because nothing is within walking or biking distance. That's not as true with the U.K.
-Drew- | |
|
| Would you give up your gas guzzler to end the Gulf war
Posted: 1/20/2007 7:35:10 PM | John,
In Texas we have a biodiesel fuel with limited availability. It is an 80/20 mixture and requires no changes to your current vehicle. It will run better and cleaner with that mixture and it is a bit cheaper. Some but not all of our 18 wheelers use it. It is a budding company but they have nationwide plans. Hopefully one will be near you soon. It is not the complete answer but it is a start. Google biowillie for more info.
Regardless of what side of the issue you are on. If we reduce dependence on foreign energy sources, we reduce their financial ability to wage war against us. As to the poster who said it was the governments job to move us to another energy source. Just how is that working for you buddy? One person makes little difference. All of us make a huge difference. Now is not the time to sit on you azz and do nothing. | |
|
| Would you give up your gas guzzler to end the Gulf war
Posted: 1/20/2007 8:45:04 PM |
One person makes little difference. All of us make a huge difference.
That's exactly why I said it's the government's job. Citizens, collectively, can make a difference. Wouldn't that be the government? 
-Drew- | |
|
e-wok
|
Joined: 9/25/2006
Msg: 15 | |
| Would you give up your gas guzzler to end the Gulf war
Posted: 1/20/2007 11:14:17 PM | oil and opression are the causes of terror, and would i change my life
style in order to bring peace to the world? of course i would.
unlike some people, i do realize that terror has logic and motive and is not
some mindless pot shots by stupid people. its calculating and designed
to injure AMERICA big time........which by the 9 trillion debt and climbing....has done
the job. | |
|
| Would you give up your gas guzzler to end the Gulf war
Posted: 1/20/2007 11:19:03 PM | | the funny thing is that there already is ample alternate fuel systems out there but whose commercial production has been hampered and suppressed by the government, thru pressure from oil conglomerates.............the only thing we can do is NOT buy oil or gas products which is something not workable in american society.......if we all strictly bought the most fuel efficient cars then what would prevent the oil industry from cutting back crude oil production so as to push up oil prices? | |
|
| Would you give up your gas guzzler to end the Gulf war
Posted: 1/21/2007 12:35:48 AM | [qoute]GM will pay for my gas for a year on my SUV.....Why downsize????? Hrm. Let's think on that.
1) Because you paid it when you baught it. GM is just taking more to give some back.
2) Next year.
3) Because the topic is "would you in order to end the gulf war", so I suppose the answer to "why" would be "to end the gulf war".
________________________
IF
GWB or the congress gave a Sh!t.... would I have a tax credit of $50k if I purchase a $100 k
8500gvw POS??????????????
this is a tax break that the commie liberals got rid of..........
How can we end the war when the PresGWB says we need to go shopping??????? Spend???????
I need to follow the Chief//////
3) SPEND AND USE will win the war on terror. "go shopping" GWB
I have a headache | |
|
| Would you give up your gas guzzler to end the Gulf war
Posted: 1/21/2007 7:21:01 AM | I believe the question: "Would you give up your gas guzzler to end the Gulf war?" is one that can't be truthfully answered by most individuals; merely because even in the US, most consumers don't have that much control over what we buy.
What can we buy?
That which we can afford.
Car dealers know this and many times won't even tell the customer the total price on the car before they find out how much money the customer can afford to pay.
It's like voting for president: the lesser of evils.
I'd love to buy a car that runs on half gas/half battery, but yaknow what?
I can't afford 40K for a car right now; especially one that I'm not even sure has replacement parts being supported by the rest of the industry.
This is going to be tough; because if we ever do get off of fossil fuel, it will either happen because we can't afford to drive at all, or because it will take a top down decision... a Nader like initiative; and politicians hate to do that. If the public doesn't like it (and collectively, we probably won't), it will be like a public decapitation for whatever president and congress who impose it; just like Jimmy Carter... and he only signed a bill to give incentives to solar power...
What politicians now would have the courage to pass such a law?
I'd be shocked if it happened... albeit shocked with joy... | |
|
| Would you give up your gas guzzler to end the Gulf war
Posted: 1/21/2007 8:42:05 AM | A previous response as quoted
"The thing is, it's not the civilians job to switch the U.S. over to alternate fuel sources. It's our government's job. If I go out and a buy a hybrid, electric, hydrogen, etc. I'm not going to do much"
As an individual yes then perhaps your are correct, but with the economy of scale in the US if only ten percent of car owners insisted on fuel efficienct cars there would be at my estimate two hundred thousand alternate/fuel efficient vehicles on us roads. this would be a triple win. The environment would benefit. the dependance on dwindling oil stocks would lessen slightly and probably car manufacturers would sit up and take notice of a new area of business. perhaps even as politicians do by there nature they would jump on the fuel efficient bandwagon and introduce initiatives tax breaks etc. I have already stated that I would buy an alternate vehicle if it was a true alternative-same cost.same performance and same reliability. unfortunately the alternatives at the moment are best described as prototypes in my opinion. But it gets back to the common theme of my threads. I'm not having a go at america since we in england are also heavy consumers of the world resources. It is just that by having a responsible attitude to energy and the usage of the worlds resources. I believe we can save the dollar in our pocket, we can by our choices make our leaders take notice that we want to protect the environment, and we can reduce our dependance on questionable alliances with dictatorships, and therfore reduce the funding of foreign countries military that may eventually turn against us.
But it is not the job of our government to decide. It up to us as individuals to make our choices known. we can do this by getting involved with our political leaders and the world we live in or if that seems too much of an effort, the easiest first step is at the Car dealership or indeed the Gas Pump. | |
|
| Would you give up your gas guzzler to end the Gulf war
Posted: 1/21/2007 9:29:01 AM |
Your assuming that the war is about oil. This is just another talking point from the anti war crowd. Would you give up your vehicle, no matter what it is to do your part? How about the trucking industry...want them to stop to? How about the airlines and trains...maybe we should all go to wood burning for our heat...knock down a few million more trees, Get my point? Oil is not the reason for this war.
Sorry but I don't get your point at all. I agree oil is used in just about everything we do, and there are no immediate alternatives for oil. How does that support the position this war wasn't motivated by oil? | |
|
| Would you give up your gas guzzler to end the Gulf war
Posted: 1/21/2007 9:32:48 AM | | I drive an old blazer that gets less than 10 mpg. I disassembled the catalitic converter from the exhaust so it can blow more smoke into the atmosphere. HELL YA I LOVE MY GAS GUZZLER! Screw the communist ****es who wants to save the oil industries. | |
|
| |
| Would you give up your gas guzzler to end the Gulf war
Posted: 1/21/2007 8:54:02 PM | No. First, I actually make full use of the cargo room and power of my gas-guzzling pig; if I didn't need it, I wouldn't have spent so much money on a beast that big that sucks up so much gas. Second, there's a lot more going on in the world than oil issues, so removing dependency based on oil is not going to bring peace.
On the other hand, if there *was* a practical alternative-fuel vehicle for me, I would give up my beast in an instant - out of concern for the environment.
sv | |
|
| Would you give up your gas guzzler to end the Gulf war
Posted: 1/21/2007 9:44:47 PM |
Yes, you are assuming that war in Iraq was for oil. In fact, it might have been. Our militaries dependancy on oil is a scary thing.
It was the number one cause for sure, number two would probably be the profits to the military industrial (War profiteers) number 3 was probably to get rid of some obsolete ordinance to make room for the new stuff. number 4. was to further destabilize the middle east and set up more terror groups where there were none before the US went in. So we can have a good long "war on terror." MORE PROFITS! Yeah right the #1 state terrorist nation the USA is going to war on terror. We would have to kill ourselves first to win this. Since the CIA has been behind much of the terror in the world.
it wouldnt end the war on terror idiots. How about you stop using drugs? Thats where terror is funded. lol open your eyes.
LOL yeah and Iraq had something to do with the war on terror I suppose? ROFL Saddam = CIA asset for the longest time if he is a terrorist who made him we need to get who was responsible for it. Remember if you are not with us you are against us the presidents own words. There are some CIA guys that need to be locked up... As far as drugs go bet you find a ton of those guys in the CIA too. Follow the money it does lead right to the terrorists the CIA fool! ROFL
You are correct that a simple lack of dependancy on foreign oil would not end terrorism.
You are incorrect in the assertion that stopping drugs would (Afghanistan was not a source of opiates under the Taliban, it's only become a drug meccha since we installed the new government).
Terror is a method, not a cause. If you want to address the problem, you address the causes of the conflict in question... which are many.
One of the few who spoke with 100% on point! Thanks.. This cuts to the core of it. One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.
The thing is, it's not the civilians job to switch the U.S. over to alternate fuel sources. It's our government's job. If I go out and a buy a hybrid, electric, hydrogen, etc. I'm not going to do much.
This is the problem with this country in a nut shell. Everyone wants big brother to do everything for them. Cant brush your teeth unless big brother tells you to do it. People are what makes things happen governments are in most cases parasites that unless they are serving a valid purpose should be shrugged off like a bad case of fleas. I know plenty of people working with Biodiesel and running cars on veggie oil. They have started a movement and it is catching on big time in my city. There are many sources of alternative fuel that are more than viable that have existed for more than 50 years. Only reason we haven't seen them is because people like you allow the government to hold us back so they can maximize profits.
That's exactly why I said it's the government's job. Citizens, collectively, can make a difference. Wouldn't that be the government?
NOPE. The government is not the people in this country. That would be anarchy(a unique form of true democracy) The USA is not even a democracy it is a representative republic..
In fact when the people of this country have tried to pull together and do things as a collective to gain rights and freedoms the government attacked them and often slaughtered them just like any other oppressive regime we supposedly hate. (Eg. civil rights, woman's suffrage, labor (anarchist) movement in Chicago, Ohio & Kent) These are just a few examples. The government will not hesitate to sick the military and or police on us to kill us if they feel like they will loose control. So you are saying to me it is the people doing this to the people? I think not.
the funny thing is that there already is ample alternate fuel systems out there but whose commercial production has been hampered and suppressed by the government, thru pressure from oil conglomerates.............the only thing we can do is NOT buy oil or gas products which is something not workable in american society.......if we all strictly bought the most fuel efficient cars then what would prevent the oil industry from cutting back crude oil production so as to push up oil prices?
OMG we got another one who can see!
Now time for my point. I haven't owned a car purposely for more than 10 years. Why people ask me, besides the huge saving on money, it is just bad for the environment and completely unnecessary where I live. I take the Marta or share rides with friends who already are going in my direction. Marta is mass transportation for those who have never been to Atlanta. It is not the best thing either but, the best thing we have at this moment. I have been considering getting a diesel car and converting it to run on veggie oil. Since the guy up the street from me does the conversions and sells the oil for 50cents a gallon. I will not judge you for owning yours or whatever your situation is and I dont think it will stop this war in Iraq because the war was not just about oil it was about profits and oil. I think it is WAY past time we use some alternative source of fuel. To people like RWGG man get creative trees for fuel?? Come on man you got to be joking! You make it seem like there is no alternative. The problem is people have an ego problem with alot of the more efficent cars or alternative sources because they are often smaller in size and might not allow you to break the speed limit.. This is pathetic. | |
|
| Would you give up your gas guzzler to end the Gulf war
Posted: 1/21/2007 10:34:20 PM | On the one hand, I do not believe that the war in Iraq is merely an oil grab.
However, I would be willing to pay more, drive less, bike more, carpool, drive a smaller vehicle, convert my existing vehicle to hydrogen if possible, buy biodiesel(I drive a diesel) if it would ensure energy independence for North America and financially shatter OPEC and impoverish Saudi Arabia and Iran. | |
|
Home
login 
