| Is it a culture thing or just a changing world?
Posted: 1/28/2007 8:33:38 AM | I was speaking to my father last night, and we had a conversation that brought up this topic.
It seems to me that alot of people today are less than honest about things. They lie, cheat, etc... whatever is in their best interest. For myself, I'd rather look in the mirror every day with a clear conscience.
I was raised to believe that lying to someone you care about is not only morally wrong, but a horrible thing to do. In my family, we believe that honesty is always best, and that if you care for someone, you won't hurt them that way.
So what I was pondering was is this purely a culture thing within my own family , and perhaps a scant few others?
Or is it a trend in society that has led people to believe it's ok to do so? The media has many instances of this becoming a norm in society. Example : the reality shows where it's okay to be underhanded, sneaky and manipulative.. as long as you win the game. Springer is another example.. I can't count how many shows on television show people lying and cheating on their significant others.. Soap operas, and the like.
For myself, I know there are clear lines between right and wrong, and I always try to foster what I want in return. I treat people with respect, and I want the same.
I've seen this trend happen in many instances, not just in my own romantic life, but that of several others.
I would appreciate any thoughts on this.. | |
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| Is it a culture thing or just a changing world?
Posted: 1/28/2007 8:42:33 AM | I am directing this to the guys in particular because I want some male opinions. Because I am a woman and I'm interested in the opinion of another gender. The thought process is different from my own.
I also know that women read and post to these threads too. Any opinions from women are welcome as well. 
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| Is it a culture thing or just a changing world?
Posted: 1/28/2007 8:55:29 AM | Oh, I see. You know how women think because you are one and all women think in exactly the same way....
Oh dear, I can tell you haven't heard about the upgrade. Are you a 0.765 model?? Because they introduced the 0.965 model early in January. That model's opinion will vary radically from the 0.765 line.
Damn those pesky manufacturers, always releasing new models.... Pretty soon they'll start making each woman with a unique chip and then it'll almost be like every single woman has a different opinion.... imagine that!! Suddenly we won't know how every other woman thinks just because you happen to be a woman too. Man!!! I am not looking forward to that! | |
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| Is it a culture thing or just a changing world?
Posted: 1/28/2007 8:55:47 AM | It seems to me that alot of people today are less than honest about things... is it a trend in society that has led people to believe it's ok to do so
I'd submit that it's you've had now some experience of life and have been made aware that people are capable of dishonesty and use that often as a tool, as they have for eons (The accounts of Adam and Cain's lying to God come to mind as perhaps the earliest examples). It just *seems* to you that there's been an increase because now it's been happening to you and you're more aware of it now than when you were growing up and "raised to believe that lying to someone you care about is not only morally wrong, but a horrible thing to do." | |
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| Is it a culture thing or just a changing world?
Posted: 1/28/2007 9:00:44 AM | Erai.. No need to be sarcastic here, and get your panties in a twist.
I don't believe that all women think the same way. As I stated, I am interested in hearing from women as well. I posted in ask a guy because I wanted male opinions.
To creativ..I have noticed this not only with myself, but with many friends as well.
So, it simply made me wonder..
perhaps i am only more aware of it now.. that could be true.
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| Is it a culture thing or just a changing world?
Posted: 1/28/2007 9:11:39 AM |
Erai.. No need to be sarcastic here, and get your panties in a twist.
Ahh see this is where you're confusing the models again; I'm a 0.965 model and we are fitted with untwistable panties as standard!! | |
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| Is it a culture thing or just a changing world?
Posted: 1/28/2007 9:16:44 AM |
Ahh see this is where you're confusing the models again; I'm a 0.965 model and we are fitted with untwistable panties as standard!!
good one. 
perhaps you can direct your next response in answer to the question, instead of trying to be inflammatory? Since you clearly believe that your opinion is so much different than my own, I'd love to hear your response. | |
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| Is it a culture thing or just a changing world?
Posted: 1/28/2007 9:26:13 AM | | I agree. For some people there just is no right or wrong anymore. Moral Compass, nope most folks are devoid of any values/morals. as longs as their needs are met, these folks can rationalize anything. As long as they can say "atleast I'm not on Jerry Springer" it seems anything goes. I applaud you for you attitude. | |
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| Is it a culture thing or just a changing world?
Posted: 1/28/2007 9:31:58 AM | Clearly you've missed the point completely... I wish you luck with your endeavour!! Such bare faced audacity deserves a reward.
Please guys, at least one of you read her profile and start to message her. It's only fair. She worked so hard on coming up with a bogus topic to post in "Ask a Guy". | |
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| Is it a culture thing or just a changing world?
Posted: 1/28/2007 10:15:33 AM | | There's not more lying now. There's always been lying. We just weren't around to see it and feel indignant that others aren't as upright and ethical as we, personally, are. | |
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| Is it a culture thing or just a changing world?
Posted: 1/28/2007 11:08:33 AM | | Is it that people lie more now or is it that now you have more ways of finding out the truth? Back in the old days, if I said I was in the Marines or whatever, would you have any way of disproving it? | |
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| Is it a culture thing or just a changing world?
Posted: 1/28/2007 12:40:12 PM | | As evidence of lying in the past take a look at all the propoganda that we now see as silly. Hiding under your desk to protect you from a nuclear blast, ciggarrettes are good for you, tons of influential or famous people staying legally married their whole lives while both partners do their own thing, the list goes on. The biggest factor of the "good old days" is the fact that people were alot more gullible. That's why they aren't called the evil runs wild days. | |
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| Is it a culture thing or just a changing world?
Posted: 1/28/2007 12:47:11 PM | Well if answering your title - I know of one culture (and I ain't gonna name it) where it feels like you are being lied to from my culture , when in fact in the answer is being twisted to stop your feelings being hurt. For example an evening is arranged and they don't want to go out, rather than just say you, receive the most elaborate excuse under the sun, which is so obviously untrue.
Back to my culture - western:
So... continuing on your theme, culture - maybe the culture/our culture has changed a bit to reflect the world we live in now. The white lie is a little more prevalent, and really what is to stop downright dishonesty with the recession of religion in many parts and an all knowing being watching our every move, things have changed a little I feel. Is that what you were asking for, or have I wandered off the topic a bit? | |
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| Is it a culture thing or just a changing world?
Posted: 1/28/2007 1:42:11 PM | According to Dr Stephen Covey of the 7 Habits of highly Effective people, which is a fascinating course that I recommend everyone take....one of the most positive attributes of seccessful people throughout history and in the present is INTEGRITY.
So, people can lie all they want, but they are going nowhere. | |
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| Is it a culture thing or just a changing world?
Posted: 1/28/2007 3:47:30 PM | Well, integrity is a deeply important personal value. One lives ones life in that manner because you see it as the only choice.
That said, today's society has turned heavily materialistic. Perhaps that is to fill a spiritual void, perhaps it's there for other reasons. People today, for the most part, are judged as being successful based on the money they have.
The popularity of the reality shows, as you mentioned, is another indicator of this new attitude. They are something that I avoid totally. They focus on winning above all other things, even at the expense of more important things like personal integrity. The "knife in the back" is appreciated by the audience as much as a matadores final sword thrust is in a bullfight.
Sports, which used to be entertainment that focused on personal dedication and sportsmanship, has now also been corrupted. Performance enhancing drugs, money, and celebrity are it's main source of importance now. Playing the game is no longer as important.
The very concept of celebrity has itself altered, thanks to this media push. One used to be famous for having done something extraordinary. Now, one can be famous simply for being famous. Paris Hilton is a good example of that in action.
One can even be quite stupid, and still be rich and famous.  As long as the outer shell is pretty, and the name and image portrayed often enough, it no longer matters what's on the inside. We've reached a point that was well portrayed in Peter Seller's movie "Being There". Perceived image has replaced real substance.
In business too, this same trend has shown it's effect. Money is the ultimate drug, and the most addictive. CEO's can reap princely rewards, while closing companies in their homelands. The fact they they are destroying the social fabric of their country by doing so is of little concern. They are "winners".
Politicians have now mastered the art of the lie to such an extent that people are no longer even very shocked to see them exposed anymore. It's become an expected art form.
All these things taken together, and amplified by the today's mass media, have meant that common people are seldom exposed to true values. In talking to a lot of young people today, I've noticed a strange discordant change from those values that were around in my youth.
They want to be rich. They want the "bling bling", and they don't really care how they get it. Without the latest cell phone, video gaming system, or clothes, they are "falling behind" as seen by their peers. Those things have a greater value than things like integrity, and hard work.
That doesn't apply to everyone, of course. It applies to enough people in society today (especially in North America, but not limited to) that it should raise cause for concern. The worst part is that there may be no solution to this problem, especially no quick one.
The only thing one can do is to maintain one's focus on a personal level, and trust that others will eventually see the light. | |
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ok.1
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Joined: 9/14/2006
Msg: 19 | |
| Is it a culture thing or just a changing world?
Posted: 1/28/2007 4:00:42 PM | ok, im not a guy, but she said it was alright to answer, so here i go
I also was raised to believe lying was not right, and still to this day have a very hard time telling a lie. My friends have even tried to teach me, but it did not work, and i don't think i want it too. I think honesty is the best policy no matter what, and i will always believe that.
K | |
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| Is it a culture thing or just a changing world?
Posted: 1/28/2007 8:27:49 PM | I'm just too lazy to lie.
Lieing is WORK. Lots of work.
You have to dodge issues.
You have to keep track of who you told what.
You have to keep two different stories (thus, the people you told them to) from meeting.
Nope, not worth the hassle.
I tell everyone the same thing and I won't have to worry about getting alsheimer's and forgetting who I told what.
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| Is it a culture thing or just a changing world?
Posted: 1/28/2007 8:33:50 PM | I was speaking to my father last night, and we had a conversation that brought up this topic.
It seems to me that alot of people today are less than honest about things. They lie, cheat, etc... whatever is in their best interest. For myself, I'd rather look in the mirror every day with a clear conscience.
I was raised to believe that lying to someone you care about is not only morally wrong, but a horrible thing to do. In my family, we believe that honesty is always best, and that if you care for someone, you won't hurt them that way.
So what I was pondering was is this purely a culture thing within my own family , and perhaps a scant few others?
Or is it a trend in society that has led people to believe it's ok to do so? The media has many instances of this becoming a norm in society. Example : the reality shows where it's okay to be underhanded, sneaky and manipulative.. as long as you win the game. Springer is another example.. I can't count how many shows on television show people lying and cheating on their significant others.. Soap operas, and the like.
For myself, I know there are clear lines between right and wrong, and I always try to foster what I want in return. I treat people with respect, and I want the same.
I've seen this trend happen in many instances, not just in my own romantic life, but that of several others.
I would appreciate any thoughts on this..
OP I know what you mean, and it is crazy and just makes you feel bad when you see what is going on and whats worse , people seem to not have a problem when they do bad or put others down and they are in denial and they lie about it, use double standards ect and it seems to be really going downhill in our societies. The ethic and moral and respect for your fellow human being is just not there as it should be, and there is more disrespect, people thinking of themselves more and neglecting , not caring about others. It's really upseting to see this going on, and it really seems like peoples consciences are not where they should be. It's worrisome.
Again what really is upsetting is that they don't admit to it and are in a state of denial and they think what they are doing is right when obviously it is not and it doesn't help others.
I am directing this to the guys in particular because I want some male opinions. Because I am a woman and I'm interested in the opinion of another gender. The thought process is different from my own.
I know what you mean by this too, I also tend to ask the opposite gender when I have concerns or something bothers me like this, i can't explain that I just instinctively want to hear a females explanation because again I am a guy and from my point of view I would appreciate a females explanation and I just think that a females explanation or hearing support or help from a female just brings more relieve to me and I can't explain. I think it may be normal to have the oppositive gender help you as opposed to your own, because admittedly alot of our concerns and uncertainties may in some way involve them, and I am just being blunt and open about this, I hope this is not taken as an insult, but I always felt that it does more justice when a lady cheers me up or helps me out, or explains to me and releives my tensions.
So I can't criticize you Op for that, because I am like that too. I don't think there is anything wrong with it UNLESS we specifically, totally and exclusively identify the other gender with our problems and we see them in an unfair way. But here I think I know what you mean and I personally can agree with you on this.
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| Is it a culture thing or just a changing world?
Posted: 1/28/2007 8:53:24 PM | | Everything you're saying is very true. But the way this world works is we as people love drama and thrive on the bad of things. I'm sure you've notice how people are quick to believe the bad things over the good things. It's just the way it is. Good is too laid back, safe and predictable. Bad is more exciting and risque therefore we're drawn to it. | |
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| Is it a culture thing or just a changing world?
Posted: 1/28/2007 10:33:05 PM | A very interesting question.
I began my business career in 1963, and in 1970 I was buying and selling about 20 million worth of steel cut to size per year for my department.
The orders came in on the phone to an order desk of 6 people, and were cut and shipped long before the paperwork caught up. There was a consistent error rate of about 2% which our company absorbed. The source was anything from misreading a dimension, mis hearing a dimension, mis transcription from order desk to shipping order, various flavors of warehouse error, customer error, and so forth. We just re-shipped, or compensated in other ways.
My company felt it was the only way to go, and to be honor bound in all transactions, verbal or written.
Sadly the MBA's arrived, and the role model for success in the new business world is taken from The Prince, where corporations are the old principalities of the middle ages, and they war amongst each other in Machiavellian ways.
The most horrible examples recently are bugging the phone lines of the Royal Family to make a few pop culture news scoops, or the more nauseating complete lack of taste among the morally bankrupt would be publishers of "If I did It, Here's How" by OJ. Hoping for killer profits?
Three decades of TV showing increasing disrespect for moral standards contribute, although this new craze for IQ driven crime stoppers like CSI and those FBI Profilers jetting around solving crime by thinking is a hopeful change.
People I have kept as friends are all morally upright, and I have sadly run across a few of the other persuasion. And there seems to be no strong distinction between numbers of men and women who are morally 'flexible'.
You become known by the people you choose to associate with.
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