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| Women put women where we are today!?
Posted: 2/3/2007 10:54:15 AM | disclaimer: I am not speaking about all women or all men
My point is I don't think men know where they fit in a woman's life anymore. Women (not all) want to open their own doors, kill their own spiders, open their own jars, carry their own guns, etc. The men seem to have had their "role" as protector taken away and they don't know how to communicate with us anymore.
I am 47, divorced and this is not how I pictured my life. I would much rather have the man in my life in the role that he was raised to fulfill in our lives. I want my doors opened for me, i hate spiders, i can't open all jars (in a timely manner) and I want him to protect me in some ways.
Agree/Disagree?
Chelynne | |
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| Women put women where we are today!?
Posted: 2/3/2007 11:02:16 AM | Edit:
OP: I Agree.
Women want the best of both worlds. They want the gains realized through the feminist movement/struggle, and the chivalry/gallanatry of the by gone eras. They want their cake,they want to eat it, and they want the man to bake it, serve them , and clean up the dishes. | |
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| Women put women where we are today!?
Posted: 2/3/2007 11:07:59 AM | Hmmmm...good question!
I think it may be different for everyone, but I will say that people are generally more independent then ever before. Women and men both have incomes. They do there own things. Guys hang out with guys and girls hang out with girls. They belong to fitness places, golf clubs, tennis lessons, cooking lessons, go on golf vacations, men's or women's days, etc...
At the same time it is always nice to have someone to have that closeness with. I am not just speaking of sex. I am speaking of the comfort level....sharing....and yes there is that spark.
I could go on but I basically agree! | |
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| Women put women where we are today!?
Posted: 2/3/2007 11:12:15 AM | The Cinderella Fairytale has been dead for decades-by whose fault? Not sure, I know the answer.
I too certainly didn't picture my life turning out the way it has thus far, being a single parent and spending the majority of my adult life without a partner; but what can you do?
You have to make the best of the circumstances you're in. Try learn from the past decisions you've made and not repeat what you know now were "mistakes". You can't make someone desire you, treat you fairly or fall in love- you can only decide who you let into your life and who you keep out of your life.
Some men have a very clear view of what they want and where they fit into a women's life, some don't; just as some women don't have a clear vision of what they want or need and some don't. | |
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| Women put women where we are today!?
Posted: 2/3/2007 11:14:26 AM | Here's the problem...
Women today want to be let on the same playing field with the Big Boys, but they don't want to have to play Hard Ball.
Men respect those who can take and give with equal humor.
We don't respect those who give and can't take, no matter who that is.
If you can't take it, then don't be so quick about giving it out.
If you're right, then you'd damn well better be totally right, else shut up about it. | |
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Tee_71
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Joined: 12/13/2006
Msg: 7 | |
| Women put women where we are today!?
Posted: 2/3/2007 11:19:49 AM | This is where I find it so hard. I want to have a "protector" I want him protect me from spiders and open my jars, I want him to carry the gun.
Whenever I tell other women this I get more crap and spewing from them than any male. I think men still want to be the one to protect but your right they no longer know if they are allowed to. I know my view is very shall we say old fasion but that is me and thats what I want. I am fully capable of taking care of myself but wish I didn't have to. | |
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| Women put women where we are today!?
Posted: 2/3/2007 11:21:28 AM | **Women (not all) want to open their own doors, kill their own spiders, open their own jars, carry their own guns, etc. The men seem to have had their "role" as protector taken away and they don't know how to communicate with us anymore.**
I can do all of the above things - and more. But I don't mind sharing the responsibilities. :) | |
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| Women put women where we are today!?
Posted: 2/3/2007 11:32:18 AM | | And here's another problem, women usually have to work when married, or their husbands expect them to work. Then the woman comes home and goes to work at her second job, while most husbands sit on their butts watching T.V. When I was married, my husband wanted me to work so he could buy himself a new truck, motorcycle, go-kart, whatever. I stayed at home because I didn't have kids so someone else could raise them. My exe made more than enough to pay the bills and a little to play with, but he wanted more, and wanted me to provide it. He didn't want to share in the housework and wanted his home-cooked meal on the table without lending a hand. I wasn't about to work all day and come home and wait on him and give him whatever extra money I had after childcare, work expenses, etc., so he could spend it on himself. I told him if I worked, whatever money was left would go for something for the family. Sure women want to have careers, we're expected to these days, or we're looked down upon, even sometimes by other women. Right before my husband and I split, I started working in the infant room at a daycare. Some of the mothers quit their jobs after a few months of being back in the workforce after giving birth, citing that they didn't work their butts off for years so that they could leave their newborns in someone else's care. I applauded them. They said if their husband's didn't like it, tough luck, the kids came first. | |
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| Women put women where we are today!?
Posted: 2/3/2007 11:32:51 AM | This is just another excuse that people use for behaving badly and for accepting someone's inadequacies.
My mother taught school, she worked when most middle class women were homemakers, at least until their children reached a certain age. She managed the money, planted bushes, painted the house. If my father was home he would kill a spider, if not, she killed it herself. They were married for 46 years and until he became ill, he still opened doors for her and I know he thought her more a woman when he died than when he married her and didn't know everything she was capable of doing, and she was pretty hot when they got married.
My dad was a marine, I don't think my mother's self-sufficiency and independence prevented his feeling that he was the protector but in today's society, how much protecting is really necessary? Far as I know, he never had to fight for her honor. She was capable but she could also be prissy as hell, he obviously liked the combination.
There are guys out there that do the protector thing but also want a woman that is interesting and capable of standing on her own two feet. Just keep looking until you find that guy. If someone has allowed a woman's rejection of his thoughtful behavior to change him, you can either choose to remind him that his efforts would be appreciated or move on to the next guy. | |
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| Women put women where we are today!?
Posted: 2/3/2007 11:37:49 AM | I can and do open doors for people, regardless of age or gender. I don't kill spiders, I pick them up and put them out of the window if they are being annoying otherwise I let them be. It's not difficult to open a jar: use your brain and hit it with something to release the air pressure. Guns are thankfully illegal here.
All this stuff is so utterly trivial. Demands like this define a role, like a job you want filled. That is not about relating to a real life human being. Men don't need a rigid role like that to step into, no-one does: it's horrible. What if your bloke is scared of spiders? Aren't you woman enough to deal with one really? Would such a petty small thing really make him less of a man in your eyes? How can you possibly relate to a person with such a narrow view of what they "should" be?
If you want to relate to someone you can't make a little cage for them like this... you must open your heart to them, create a space within your heart where they can be who they truly are, and this goes so far beyond petty ideas of stereotyping and gender roles. The man I love is in my heart, I have no expectations of him and assign no role for him to play. Even the idea of doing that actually makes me feel physically sick. I love him because he is the person that he is: before everything I want him to feel free to be all that he is and can be. He is unique, no roles or boxes could ever define or contain him: he shines and in my heart he is unlimited. | |
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| Women put women where we are today!?
Posted: 2/3/2007 11:40:05 AM | People need to narrow their focus off of society and the world and quit being sheep influenced by the media. If society did make a sudden shift, that in itself wouldn't necessarily help or hurt your odds of finding a suitable partner for a successful relationship. It's about the one on one, deciding what type of relationship and partner you want and someone who wants the same. It's our own environment that we create and live in, the people that are in our lives and a part of our lives. That's not society that's our own little world and it's up to us who we allow in it and who we don't.
Learn to think and do for yourself, whether it's what the rest of society is doing or not. It can only influence you if you allow it to. | |
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| Women put women where we are today!?
Posted: 2/3/2007 11:42:16 AM | Someone special pointed out this tread to me...
To agree with this or disagree would mean we have completely missed the point of relating to another person in an intimate way. My special someone can reach higher then me, and is very protective of my heart. *smiles* she hasn't killed any spiders for me and hope she wouldn't.
Non of this matters as much as being able to relate to her in the heart centered way we do. there are gadgets to open jars without the need for someone to strut there masculinity to feel as though they are needed....
I am a man, i have muscles and my masculinity is intact. But my heart is what needs to be know, held, nurtured, and has the deep need to express its self to someone special. *smiles at her* I don't need to play any role and nor does she. What role could we play that truly reflects who we are? We are both independent and we are both dependent in in some ways. We have nothing to prove or to live up to.
And when we express ourselves to each other we see each other beyond what the world thinks we are. I can open a door for her, and she can open a door for me. Its only a door. However I open my heart to her and she has opened her heart to me, and thats what matters. How we relate is more important to me then anything else in this world.
crazylilting | |
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| Women put women where we are today!?
Posted: 2/3/2007 11:44:12 AM | Call it a hunch, but I'm thinkin' this thread will eventually degenerate into some serious gender bashing. So I'm gonna post early. I definitely agree with your choice to live your personal relationships as they feel comfortable for you. And I definitely would have to agree with your thread title -- and about time too, I might add. But I'm not sure I'd agree too much with your middle paragraph about men not knowing where they fit into a woman's life, or knowing how to talk to them. I would think that most men now fit into a woman's life as 'equals' and talk to them in the same manner -- if the percentage is not 'most men' by now, it soon will be, and continue to grow beyond that -- and again ... about time, I might add.
cdn guy | |
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| Women put women where we are today!?
Posted: 2/3/2007 11:46:52 AM | It is not so much that we fail to know where we fit in as the fact that a lot of todays women resent the fact that most men still want to do these things. Like it or not men as well as women desire to be needed as well as wanted in a relationship. All to often you hear someone say that it is not that they need a person as they want a person in their lives. Now I am sure that they do want a person in they're life, but to need someone today has a negative connotation to it.
Just look how many times does the word needy come up in these threads. Or the word clingy or smother.
It is often a sense of balance between need and want that makes a relationship, and it is indeed a fine line for either sex to walk.
This is where independence in thought and attitude comes into play. A person needs to be independent and confident enough to be their own person and still allow the other person in their life to feel needed as well as wanted. | |
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| Women put women where we are today!?
Posted: 2/3/2007 11:52:28 AM |
"I would much rather have the man in my life in the role that he was raised to fulfill in our lives."
..too fulfill in OUR lives? I am hoping that was a typo and that you were referring to your own life because I definitely do not believe that a man's role in life is to 'protect me'...
I can open my own jars (althought it might take a few minutes of hot water and some banging lol), and I can kill my own spiders (if I have to)... but that doesn't mean I want to do it ALL of the time either... sometimes it is nice to have someone there to do those things for you...
In regards to communication... society changes fast, and it's changing everyday... men just need to deal and catch up!
P.S Carry their own guns?! I'm assuming you're from from the states! lol :) | |
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| Women put women where we are today!?
Posted: 2/3/2007 12:06:37 PM | Disagree.
I can open my own door, squish the icky spiders, open my jars, and if I had to (although I would rather stay away from those situations of course) defend myself. However, I do not think that takes away a man's role in my life. Some things have changed, yes, but i still think a man can be more "manly" then me.
Women can decide for themselves, and WITH their man, who is picking whom up for dinner, whether or not to have a relationship, working or raising the kids... Having the OPPORTUNITY to be able to make these decisions together is far better than ONLY having "roles".
i.e. the person im currently dating showed me how to fix some things on my car, and doesnt mind paying for our dates.
Besides, I do not recall anyone ever having perfect communication. It's a matter of mutual appreciation and understanding. | |
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| Women put women where we are today!?
Posted: 2/3/2007 12:14:14 PM | cheylynne...i agree.... totally,...i recently turned 50,...and even in a Few (?!) years have seen the differences... i learned to do certain things because i HAD to for everyday-life survival, when i didn't/dont have a man 'at my beck&call'.... some things i WANTED to learn, Speaking for MYSELF, i miss (and WANT) a Man to be there for me to help, o protect & guide.... while still keeping my intelligence and integrity in balance with His....(it's not that hard to do, we just gotta TRY)    | |
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| Women put women where we are today!?
Posted: 2/3/2007 12:29:26 PM | I've always considered that men and women each have strengths and weaknesses, and each can do fine on their own...but together they can do even more. While I don't believe in NOW, and dislike what the feminazis have done to women, men, and society, at the same time I would never want to be some helpless female who *needs* a man to take care of her. I want my SO and I to take care of *each other*.
Yes, I like the idea that the man is the 'protector', that he opens doors, helps me on with my coat, and treats me like a lady...but I also want him to like the idea that I reach over and unlock his car door, will pamper him a bit when he's had a hard day, and will treat him like a man and not a little boy. I'd prefer that we go shooting together, divvy up the chores (I'll cook if he'll clean up, he can mop while I vacuum), and that we both know that we'll stand together through whatever life throws our way - good *and* bad. I want a partner, an equal, not a relationship where one is slotted into some role society thinks they should fit into. If we were attacked and my partner rendered unconscious, I'd hope he wouldn't be upset if I was able to handle the perpetrator and keep us safe, out of some misguided notion that only the man can protect the woman...and at the same time, if I were accosted and my SO decked the guy, I'd enjoy feeling 'protected' ;) Essentially, I would hope men, and women, know that all they need to do is be themselves, not what society thinks they should act like. | |
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| Women put women where we are today!?
Posted: 2/3/2007 12:31:04 PM | We have come a long way since the wild west when people had to carry guns.
And the reason men opened doors for women was because women wore big dresses
and had to hold their dresses to get thru the door. Times have changed.
Men are still the stronger sex though. So of course where strength is needed and they
can help, I am sure a kind and caring male will do that for you. Roles change as society
changes but somethings never change. Politeness and empathy are always welcome in
both sexes. | |
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| Women put women where we are today!?
Posted: 2/3/2007 12:31:53 PM | Oh my Chel'. U have hit on a sore spot of mine for a long time. I've TRIED to date women in the states for a long time... My family is predominately from Europe besides my mom's side. I know when I'm dating a girl from the US I'm totally lost... I can get just about any girl/woman I want to go to bed with me... sex is, sorry to say, EASY. And being a bad boy is easy too. Which I've noticed, if I'm the bad boy I get hit on ALOT... as soon as I show that I'm just a regular guy inside.. they get bored... and since 95% of women respond to the "bad boy" my odds are always better going that route. Sorry ladies, YOU'VE trained me, be a bad boy = get attention = get ass-GOOD JOB. Pavlov's dogs??? Being the "funny guy" is great so long as you don't run out of material... Being the "nice guy" means a bored woman/ladie/girl/chic in 3.2 seconds. I've noticed woman like the "kinda" ***hole... give her a hard time and you score points... Tell her ur attracted to her because of the beauty u see, she's bored. Yeah, kinda hard to tell what ur personality is UNTIL I'm attracted to you to the point of approaching you. So the whole crapola of "Gee, why can't he want me for my personality?" question .... WHATEVER! The physical is what gets us to walk up to you in the first place... ur personality is what keeps us around... and oh my god do women here in the states have a ROTTEN reception to a guy that walks up to them... why do u think SOO many women complain of guys either NOT approaching them OR when they do its the A hole that already has an attitude from the previous 300 women he's tried to talk to that acted RUDE to him right off the bat.... Guys WANT to know u, and talk to you, and get physical with you.. they are DRAWN to you...so their would be NO reason for them to become aholes on their own.... unless of course its learned response - Pavlov's dog. Hate to use it, but its the same reason why girls learn not to touch the hot stove and why woman salivate when it gets close to dinner time... ladies ur on the same level as us.. you LEARN. And when we get right down to it.. Could u imagine the look and reaction on a womans face that was my wife/lover/life partner if I told her "Hun, I know u could make us a beautiful baby, but I've decided to bring this other woman in to do it instead" Or How bent out of shape women would get if we men could find a way to make babies WITHOUT you..... Just keep doing our position for us, and eventually we men go other places for women that do FIND us valuable... and know what their position is and LOVE it. Just as I LOVE my position in a family... Comparing a man to a woman is like comparing an apple to an orange..... impossible... don't try to be the orange when ur an apple... LOL...
Hans | |
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| Women put women where we are today!?
Posted: 2/3/2007 1:07:54 PM | | Most women I know are perfectly capable of doing things for themselves.Every situation is different and every person will react differently to different situations but I think most women can fend for themselves these days.Personally,as a male, I dont like having the role of "protector" and alot of women dont want to be treated as if they ar a helpless little animal.Which is completely understandable.I think it would be cool if there was an equal balance between the sexes.Men taking on a bit more womanly traits and vice versa.I do hole heartedly beleive that in most male dominated areas women deserve just as much respect as the men as long as they put in as much hard work.The only thing I wouldnt agree with is women having that and still maintaining their place in society as the sex who calls most of the shots in the dating/romantic world.Women,for the most part, still have the option of sitting back and letting the male do all the work of "hunting" or seeking out a mate.This is fine and dandy but if you give women the respect in all of the male dominated arenas and they still have that sort of power over men then that would be having your cake and eating it too.It wouldnt be equality which is really what we should all be working towards.Men and Women have to give up thier typical roles a little in order for that to work....but I would love to see it happen. | |
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daisie
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Joined: 9/22/2004
Msg: 23 | |
| Women put women where we are today!?
Posted: 2/3/2007 1:24:26 PM | Those women also managed to get you the right to vote, drive a car, own property, have a bank account in your own name, earn your own money and get an education, and made it illegal to beat up and rape a wife (and any woman). I am very grateful to those women prioneers who came before me. They tolerated a lot of crap from the ignorant people of their times....nowadays people jsut take all their work for granted. Lets take a moment to remember their hard work.
and......let's all get along in peace and harmony...let's relax and stop worry so much about "us" vs "them" and just be friends!!!
A man in my life knows exactly where he fits in...he is my FRIEND and PARTNER and LOVER. We share a MUTUAL RESPECT for each other first and foremost. And since we are friends we know what each other needs and we help each other the best way we can. Personally....spiders and jars are silly problems. In fact I've never had a spider or jar give me any trouble that I can't easily handle.
Opening doors...well that's fine...its a nice gesture. But I won't get upset if he does or does not open it. I certainly do expect him to hold it for me if he walks through the door first(don't shut it in my face). And I would do the same for him.
I do have trouble with some household and car repairs that I don't know how to do...if my man is able to help with that I would be happy. And the next time a bad guy tries to mug my man I can shoot him between the eyes (the bad guy of course) since I do carry my own weapon. | |
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| Women put women where we are today!?
Posted: 2/3/2007 1:25:46 PM | i think the key is balance.
yes, i want you to open doors for me, pull out my chair, and pay for my dinner (at least sometimes). why? it makes me feel special and i like feeling special! it's thoughtful. it's courteous. and most guys that i know do like to make a woman feel special, because it reinforces the bond between them.
on the other hand, i don't want to be held back by my gender. i had my forklift license and operated a CNC router for years. i liked it. i happen to like landscaping too - not just planting flowers but the heavier stuff. i don't think i should be prevented from doing those things just because i'm female, that's what equality is about. at the same time i don't think a man should be held back by HIS gender. he shouldn't have to open jars just because he's a man (though if it's stuck and he's stronger, you bet i'll ask him!) and he shouldn't NOT do "girly" stuff like changing diapers.
i have two friends who really got it right. they both open doors for me and stuff. one is a lawyer who takes cases of gender discrimination, and the other is a successful business owner who, at his own staff christmas party, volunteered to change my baby's poopy diaper because i was busy talking with someone at the time. forget gender roles, do what needs to be done. equality is important. but that doesn't mean you can't, or shouldn't, do something thoughtful for someone else. | |
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| Women put women where we are today!?
Posted: 2/3/2007 1:49:07 PM | Good points --& the men seem to be more accommodating for what women want & the look to some guys as "WUSSES" --->
& if they find a guy that has his mind made up & or decides to not to play along with the little game of "Behave as I would like you to & then criticize you for acting & behaving like a woman..."
Then you are not the man they thought you were & sometimes move on & live 2 lives for a while & then you may get divorced / break up etc...
I've seen too many break ups over this very thing that women want & then change their minds as men try & accommodate ---& there is STILL a dissatisfaction there...
(women seem to want more these days & more...the lack of being satisfied with just 1 car will not do any more you need 3)...
I'm content & would like to find a like minded person not caught up in all the
SUPER SITCOM Lifestyles... I couldn't keep up with that & will not try too... Chasing happiness only leads to chase again to help fill the need to be happy again tomorrow... & so on...
How can any man please someone who is "FICKLE"? ----Granted I love women & want to satisfy & create an experience that lasts as long as I live & I'm very flexible...I'm a student and a teacher when it comes to WOMEN & want it to last...
We all could use a "TUNE UP" when it comes to someone we want to be with...
Kahuna- has plenty of fish for you... | |
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