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| Congress will put a stop to the travel ban for Americans going to Cuba.
Posted: 2/27/2007 3:23:19 PM | We all know about this so called travel ban on Cuba. It has been a complete waste of time and a severe erosion of liberties. This policy has been a disaster. Effecting the lives on all sides in a negative way and has achieved nothing except wasting efforts of the federal government tracking people who are traveling to see family, going for religious reasons, or the few Americans who wish to go on tours or bike trips.
It is INSANE that one of our closest neighboring countries is treated like a leaper colony. That we are not supposed to travel there to visit this wonderful island and are supposed to ignore the wonderful people of this island and even to family members we are not allowed to send more than 100$ to them.. Imagine if you couldn't send money to your family when they fell on hard times! Imagine not being able to go see your wife and kid or go to your mom or dads funeral or not be able to go and practice your religion of which there are several thousands of people who practice religions based in Cuba. (I happen to be a member of such.)
Well it seems congress is going to do what it did the last time and pass a bill to stop enforcement of the travel ban. Last time it only caused the white house to further restrict travel.
During the past three years, the U.S. State and Treasury Departments have been shutting the door on the few remaining opportunities for Americans to travel to Cuba, including severely restricting religious travel. Not only does this make aid to Cuba more difficult, but the ban continues to unfairly punish Cuban citizens with a cold-war era punitive measure ban that has already proven ineffective.
It is time to end the travel ban to Cuba. Rep. Charles Rangel (D-NY) and Rep. Jeff Flake (R-AZ) have introduced legislation to do just that. Write to your Representative and urge him or her to become a co-sponsor of this legislation.
http://ga3.org/campaign/cubatravelban
This will probably not get much coverage in the press unless of course they remove the ban. 67% of Americans think the ban should be removed, most of which find it to be an infringement on liberties. only 27% of people think the ban should continue. The people opposed to this travel ban come from all political points of view. The travel ban has failed miserably to change the government or peoples view on it in Cuba. If anything it backfires and make people wonder about the USA and it's intentions. Further people who must travel to Cuba for family and religion often have to do so illegally VIA a near by country since no other country in the world has such a ban. The UN has made many mandates on the USA to drop the internationally illegal ban calling it inhumane. All of these were ignored.
I would love to be able to take a flight down to visit family and practice my religion freely without interference from the US government. Right now people have been fined 10,000 dollars and more for simply going on bike tours or visiting relatives in Cuba. Given the situation of security wouldn't the federal agents who are tracking people going on bike tours and visiting relatives or participating in religious events be better used tracking down potential terrorists instead of otherwise law abiding citizens who are only breaking the law because the said law is unjust and inhumane?
This thread is not talking about so much the ban itself but, congress looking into removing it in 2007. I don't want to step on any other possible threads out there that may cover the topic of travel ban in Cuba but, I would like to discuss this new attempt to put an end to this draconian ban that keeps families and people of faith suffering for no good whatsoever. | |
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| Congress will put a stop to the travel ban for Americans going to Cuba.
Posted: 2/28/2007 1:49:57 AM |
I believe that is a site sponsored by the Cuban government, at the very least, under its influence. I won't be able to prove nothing, just biased speculation.
Yep complete speculation center for democracy is not a Cuban entity.
Cubacentral.com is run by the Freedom to Travel Campaign of the Center for Democracy in the Americas. The campaign works to change U.S. policy from a strategy of confrontation to one of normalized relations and common sense between the United States and Cuba.
Contact Information
Email us
Write to us:
P.O. Box 53106
Washington, D.C. 20009
Many people all over the world are still wondering why the USA is still holding a grudge against the Cuban people. There is no other valid reason the embargo/travel ban should still exist. If the idea was "to starve the people of Cuba till they came to their senses." It has obviously failed for a very long time.
Lets not forget Castro showed up with only 11 other guys and took over the island. He could not have done this without overwhelming support by the people. This ban on people traveling to this island 90 miles off our shores to visit the good people of Cuba is ridiculous and is having no other effect than to make the US government look like bitter, mean hearted, sore losers.
Bullies who since they no longer own nearly everything there, they will attempt to stop anyone from being able to carry on normal relations with their friends, family, religion, and/or just to get away and experience the wonder and beauty that is Cuba.
Don't it always seem like the US wishes to spew venom and scream tyranny and regime change just after a government decides to nationalize industry and resources for the betterment of their country instead of making some people rich in the states? Isnt that what this is really all about. It the good old if I can't have it NO one can! How childish we need to end this stupidity and move on and let Cuba make up its own mind on what system they wish to live under. | |
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| Congress will put a stop to the travel ban for Americans going to Cuba.
Posted: 2/28/2007 6:01:29 AM | This issue would seem a no-brainer; horrible that the people of Cuba are still paying for what Castro did decades ago. Families are divided unnecessarily, etc. There seems no tangible harm in opening up tourism and allowing trade between our countries.
In addition to the personal issues with families, etc. the Cuban policy has damaged relations with other central and South American countries that cannot trade with the U.S. if they trade with Cuba. This attitude is held by Panamanians, a country that has always had close ties with the U.S. and is primarily pro-American.
On the other hand, I remember how I felt about the situation after reading Thirteen Days, Robert Kennedy's account of the Cuban Missile Crisis and in Fog of War, when Robert McNamara told of an encounter he had with Castro decades after the fact. Those missiles were there, they were armed, and Castro was almost gleeful in his indication that he would have loved to use them even knowing that Cuba would have been wiped off the planet as a result. As ironic as it is, without the cooler heads of the Soviets....
While it seems ridiculous, Castro, old buzzard that he is, has not yet died. I'm not sure I want to find out if he is still nuttier than a fruitcake. | |
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| Congress will put a stop to the travel ban for Americans going to Cuba.
Posted: 2/28/2007 6:16:18 AM | When Russia withdrew their financial aid to Castro it pretty much neutered him as to being able to cause much havoc in the world. We made the mistake at the time of his rebellion of giving him lip service while providing arms and training to Batista. It is no wonder that he would hate us for that. Prior to that he had a fairly high opinion of the United States. Remember his first ambition was to be a pro baseball player in the US and he went to UCLA.
I don't see him as a good guy but I can understand his disdain for us. All Presidents since and including Eisenhower have tried to get him out of office. Some even by assasination.
I see the embargo as stupid. How better to change the minds of the Cubans than to provide jobs and opportunity. I met the 14th man to join Castro once. He was only 14 when he fought with Castro. He hated him and left when Castro announced his communist intentions. Old hatreds run deep. BTW that man, a vemenent anti communist joined our army and fought in Viet Nam leaving behind his college education. I don't know if he made it back alive or not. That was 1966. | |
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| Congress will put a stop to the travel ban for Americans going to Cuba.
Posted: 2/28/2007 7:41:28 AM | The travel ban is a leftover from the bad old days.
Cubans wanted a Cuba for Cubans. They didn't want to be annexed as another state by the US, or, to be a wholly owned subsidiary of, and by, American business interests, and gangsters.
And, in the land of the free.....you are completely free...to do as you are told! | |
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| Congress will put a stop to the travel ban for Americans going to Cuba.
Posted: 2/28/2007 4:37:11 PM |
The bill won't pass as long the Helms-Borton law remains in place.
Btw, Violet, I believe that is a site sponsored by the Cuban government, at the very least, under its influence. I won't be able to prove nothing, just biased speculation.
I sincerely, and honestly, don't believe it is. I have a friend who travels there and uses this to take a peek at goings on there. He's told me it's pretty accurate. | |
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| Congress will put a stop to the travel ban for Americans going to Cuba.
Posted: 2/28/2007 6:12:58 PM | I will take your words for that. Both, from OP and Violet. As I said was a biased speculation.
I don't agree with the embargo policy. I understand the reasons behind the idea, stated by packagedeal in her post but, the failure in its intention is already proved through time passed.
However, the Helms-Borton law is considered as an extension of that policy. As long it is in effect it will be, from the legal standpoint, a contradiction. In its context should be no different than any other treat with the rest of the world but because its language there is no room for negotiation. It's part of the political hipocresy lirycs. I wish to be wrong. | |
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| Congress will put a stop to the travel ban for Americans going to Cuba.
Posted: 3/1/2007 12:03:15 AM | its so amusing see to people complaining about the embargo keeping families seperated, when castro is the one who keeps his "subjects" from leaving their workers paradise. when you have a government that has made freinds / neighbors and even family members suspicious of one another. i have a freind who made plans to escape cuba, the only person he told was his mother...his father, being the good little communist would have turned him in to the authorities.
the only thing that happens when you bring dollars into cuba is....put more dollars in fidels pocket. fidel pays cubans in pesos, "cuban" stores...those that are for cubans who live there accept only pesos. the only thing the cuban peso is good for is to wipe your a**, now i won't deny that cubans do have accsess to merchandise....but these things have to be bought with dollars.
check out this site www.netforcuba.org look at the difference btwn how tourists are treated / live and the average cuban. look around the site, check out the pictures....then ask yourself, like it says on the site..."where is the embargo here"? | |
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| Congress will put a stop to the travel ban for Americans going to Cuba.
Posted: 3/1/2007 12:36:19 AM | Lets see......Castro is evil and caused all this?
Bay of Pigs mean anything? Cigars that explode? Batista(sic)?
Castro has done one hell of a lot better job with Cuba, than Haiti a friend and non commie island(dam commie)......both are 80-90 miles right??
Lets not go to oppressed and torture....PAPA Doc was great at that.... | |
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| Congress will put a stop to the travel ban for Americans going to Cuba.
Posted: 3/1/2007 12:41:11 AM | "nationalize industry and resources for the betterment of their country instead of making some people rich in the states". so your ok with stealing peoples property....taking their land, their houses, their businesses. if you owned a small farm ( like my grandparents) its ok with you for the government to come in and take everything you've ever worked for and kick you out of your own house. if you were a small business owner, maybe a general store, or a site seeing business it would be ok for the government to move in, take the building take your goods, take any equipment that you have.
"its the good old, if i can't have it no one can" the only people who have anything in cuba is fidel, raul, and any top communist officials.
"we need to let cuba make up its own mind on what kind of system they wish to live under"
thats the problem, the cuban people haven't been allowed to say what kind of system the want to live under. they were promised change from a liar to reinstitute the constitution, to give the cuban people freedom..and instead they got the worst dictator that island has ever seen. | |
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| Congress will put a stop to the travel ban for Americans going to Cuba.
Posted: 3/1/2007 1:04:24 AM | "we need to let cuba make up its own mind on what kind of system they wish to live under"
thats the problem, the cuban people haven't been allowed to say what kind of system the want to live under. they were promised change from a liar to reinstitute the constitution, to give the cuban people freedom..and instead they got the worst dictator that island has ever seen.
=========================
I think some might question worst......do you really think the USA gives a crap what kind of Right Wing nut is running Cuba???????
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"the cuban people haven't been allowed to say what kind of system"
__________________________________________
Papa Doc was great. No Boats. Baby Doc was Greater. No boats. (no Doctors no education)
What I am saying is this country has a share of the heart ache......Cuba should be a jewel and everyone there should be much better than they are.....I am saying you cannot blame Castro.... | |
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| Congress will put a stop to the travel ban for Americans going to Cuba.
Posted: 3/1/2007 1:38:20 AM | "you cannot blame castro" .... REALLY!!! so castro murders god knows how many political disidents, and he shouldn't be blamed. castro steals the revolution for himself, crowning himself grand poobah which means nothing gets done without his approval.
any "heartaches" this country has i will blame the government. all of the misery and poverty that cuba has suffered is the result of man...FIDEL!!!
"YOU" might question worst...but i'll bet you a one way ticket to havana you'd never live there.
i'm not inerested in nuts of any kind, i interested in a democratic cuba were people can voice their opinion and dissent without getting thrown in jail or shot. i'm interested in a cuba that respects property rights, that incourages businesses big and small.
did you bother checking out the website i mentioned before? did you see the pics of people filling their buckets with water from the water trucks.... did we destroy their waterworks system. did you see the buildings crumbling down on themselves, did we send bombers in to destroy them? did you see the billion dollar hotels that were built for tourists....where has all the money from the tourist trade gone to? it sure as hell hasn't gone to fix any infrastructure. i wonder when fidel will get around to reinstituting the constitution like he promised 40 years ago.
doctors.....the best hospitals....as long as you are a foreigner with dollars....then its all good.
education....they'll teach you to read and write....then they'll TELL YOU what to read and write. | |
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| Congress will put a stop to the travel ban for Americans going to Cuba.
Posted: 3/1/2007 1:55:31 AM | I am all for discussing this stuff about if you think Castro has been good or bad for the island there are many arguments for both sides of that. The main focus of this thread is the embargo/travel ban being removed by the congress. Lets hear what you got to say about this. No matter if you like or dislike Castro, I see absolutely no argument for this travel ban to be held up. It only makes common people suffer for no good end. It is obvious it does not and will not do anything to change their government. In fact one could easily argue it has worked to harm the US image. Fact is about the other argument is most of Latin America looks up to Cuba's system. The infant mortality rate is low, literacy is extremely high, no homeless, no one starves, health care for everyone, low prisoner to population rate, Free education all the way to the highest forms of it, no system is perfect but, could be far worse.....
I would not say Castro is the worse leader Cuba has ever had. In fact given that the USA has been trying to assassinate him and sending covert ops groups to commit acts of terror on Cuba for many decades now, I would have to say he has done rather well as a leader..
Batista was pretty bad probably should win the worst leader as well. Very corrupt and the people obviously sided with Castro over Batista if they had not, when Castro showed up on the Grandma with his 11 other revolutionaries in the Sierra Maestro they would have been captured and killed instantly..
It took an overwhelming amount of the population to want change bad enough for them to beat both Batista's army and then continue to repel the USA as well.
I thought his strategy of reluctantly joining the soviets for protection was the wise thing to do in his situation and I think had the USA instead of trying to make him their enemy had tried to be diplomatic, things would have turned out quite different. The US was not interested in making friends because the mafia and many big business men lost their asses in Cuba and we all know that. This is a grudge and the common people are being used as pawns in the revenge of the exiles and the business men many of whom lost a great deal of money in the process of the Cuban revolution. I understand the position of both sides. I do NOT understand the usefulness of punishing the common people of both the USA and Cuba with this travel ban. It does no good and only harms everyone involved.
education....they'll teach you to read and write....then they'll TELL YOU what to read and write.
Same thing in the USA isn't it? Was, when I was in school read this and this and this and you will be tested blah blah same ol same ol... People are no more "brainwashed" in Cuba than the USA in fact in my opinion the people of the USA are FAR more brainwashed and disillusioned. I noticed and respected greatly how realistic and informed the common Cubans are. They are well informed about the outside world and speak freely about their situation and the state of the world once they get to know you. It depends greatly of where you go on the island as to how the people are living and being treated. Not so unlike the USA. | |
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| Congress will put a stop to the travel ban for Americans going to Cuba.
Posted: 3/1/2007 2:04:27 AM | any "heartaches" this country has i will blame the government. all of the misery and poverty that cuba has suffered is the result of man...FIDEL!!!
__________________
i'm not inerested in nuts of any kind, i interested in a democratic cuba were people can voice their opinion and dissent without getting thrown in jail or shot. i'm interested in a cuba that respects property rights, that incourages businesses big and small.
___________________
Do you belive the USA would provide a Democratic Cuba.......with no heartaches??????
If the Bay of Pigs had gone down>>>>>What do you see?
Do you know the Clowns that we running it?????
Sorry dude..... We in US dont give a sh$$
You may feel you are so important to this country,
No way.
You would be doin Casinos, hookers and Cane.
Haiti Plus......The strong man would smile.....Batistia | |
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| Congress will put a stop to the travel ban for Americans going to Cuba.
Posted: 3/1/2007 3:17:08 AM | to answer your question about the travel ban i'm all for it. as far as most of latin america looking up to cuba, i seriously doubt it...and even if they do so what. cuba had a low infant mortality rate before castro...thats nothing new. i've already made my comments about the great education you get in cuba....teach you to read and write....then tell you what to read and write. regardless of weather you want to acknowledge it or not the common people have been suffering under fidel since 1959. as far as that no homeless crap.....did you check out the web site i mention earlier?
the only reason fidel has remained in power is because he is more ruthless, and methodical when it comes to imprisoning and murdering political disidents. while ruining the cuban economy at the same time.... not what i would call a good leader.
i'm not defending batista, he was an obviously corrupt indivdual, and he was a dictator. remember batista had fidel imprisoned before the revolution had actually started, back when he was a rich, spoiled law student and agitator. if batista were as bad as castro he would have had him shot....thats what fidel and che did with their prisoners. not to mention the fact that i don't recall reading....anywhere about cubans fleeing batista in the millions....how many do you think have fled since castro, how many do you suppose drowned at sea that we'll never know about.
castro didn't join the soviets reluctanly...he was a comunist from the begining. he fooled a lot of people by claiming the opposite, including some on my moms side and a couple of uncles on my dads.....my old man saw right through his bullshit and warned his bros. they didn't believe him about castro...right up until they climbed in the rowboat with my 5yr bro, dad, and pregnant mom.
the travel ban may hurt cubans who live in the u.s, and it may hurt those who live there, but the one it really hurts is fidel because its less money he can pocket for himself.
"same thing in the u.s isn't it"? NOT EVEN CLOSE!!!! you may have to read and be tested on a subject, but nobody is told what to think politically by the government. i had plenty of leftist teachers in school, they had no problem encouraging political dissent. nobody from the government took them to be re-educated.
they are well informed ? informed by who? the comunist government run media, the same government that imprisons and murders anyone who dares to speak against castro and the "noble revolution". the comunist government that only allows books in libraries that are sanctioned by the government and arrests individuals who dare to have "private libraries" and secretly loan there non-sanctioned books out to the public.
they speak freely? really? i suppose all the political prisoners, who have been imprisoned and or shot is just a bunch of lies. i geuss that as a citizen of cuba, knowing that if i'm overheard criticizing castro, or god forbid the revolution, can cost me my job, my freedom or my life it wouldn't make me either keep my mouth shut or say nothing but great things about fidel and comunism.
believe me, i would love to go to cuba, to walk through the hometowns of my parents, to meet the family i've never known, to see the farm my mother grew up on. but i won't step one foot on cuban soil as long as those two turds known as the castro bros are running things, or as long as the people there are kept under a cruel and oppressive system. | |
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| Congress will put a stop to the travel ban for Americans going to Cuba.
Posted: 3/1/2007 8:44:33 AM | The reason because is often compared one country to another, or one dictator to another is beyond my comprenhension brainy activities.
Batista, Papa Doc, Pinochet, Tacho Somoza, Hitler, Stalin or Hussein were all differents. By nature, they were all the same.
All countries are differents, all dictators are different. The bottom line for me is simple: a benevolent dictator, the best of all mankind history is still a dictator. The comunist system, regardless of the country and its leader is ineffective, repressive, autocratic and totalitarian by nature. One is inherent to another.
Granted, nobody sees dead people on the street or homeless...because they are kept away from the public eyes.
On topic: The embargo policy against Cuba was the response from US to the old Soviet Union as the result of the secret agreement to resolve the missil crisis where there is a compromise from America about not invade Cuba. That means the introduction of comunism in Latin America without risk and the intention for expansion. The economical pressure as a weapon was the only available way, excluding of course CIA activities.
The policy after all this years proved to be a political failure.
The result as affecting Cuban economy is not a failure in the sense of cost increased in international commerce. Obviously, is not the same to get a bus from England or Japan with a 'friend' only 90 miles trip to Florida but, it doesn't explain the lack of tropical fruit in the market, nor the difficulty to eat chicken once a week or lack of milk for children even when is rationed for the ones under 6 yrs old only.
Is not the reason for the misery, starvation diet and the general low standard of living where a toilet paper can be a luxury item for the common population and the cheapest pair of tennis shoes from Wal-mart can be the ultimate trend on fashion.
It has nothing to do with the deterioration of political, economical, social, religious, civic, ethic, philosophical, moral and educational values of an entire history and traditions of a country.
It is not the reason, despite the 'great' education and health care programs that collegue professors, engineers and doctors prefer to work as taxi drivers or bartender in the turism industry and change the oportunity of a degree for a career as a hooker.
Before the collapse of the comunist block and relaying on them for more than 85% of the total economic activities the country never was able to be self sufficient even in food. A sad reality in a country where the grass still grow in what we call the 'winter'. As today, the production level of sugar and coffee are the equivalent to the median before Batista's time.
The Havana Harbor is considered one of the most contaminated in the world. If closed, isolated and suspended all activities for the next 20 yrs still a fish will die.
As today, Cuba is a divided country in its own territory: one for the nationals to live a slow death and one for the tourist to enjoy a paradise.
The reason is not the embargo policy to blame.
One time looser, I was expelled from university trying to become a lawyer. My interpretation of the Declaration of Independence wasn't helping me to understand the Cuban Constitution.
Second time looser, I was expelled from university trying to become a journalist. My interpretation of the Bill of Rights wasn't helping me to understand the Communist Manifesto.
My only choice for work was to be laborer. I wasn't politically trustworthy.
Third time looser, I became a full time worm, counter-revolutionary, apatride, ideological deviated, sold to the empire, traitor. I was called here a political disident.
Personally, the embargo policy means nothing to me. Lifted or not I'm banned to get back even as a visitor and the only chance I"ll ever have, to see my son again, is if the system changes. Btw, he is already in jail. Since his 16th birthday, is now 19 and he has another two more to go. Not because the embargo, he refused the military draft.
Maybe US, for some people, can be considered the same old sht.
At least, here, I have the option for AA if I decide to make career as an alcoholic. In Cuba, doesn't exist because the law against ilicit association.
At least, here, I can be whining about everything, including the lack of a big dik in my as. In Cuba is illegal to be gay, unless you 'work' for the sex tourism.
And that, my dear OP, has nothing to do with the embargo neither. | |
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