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| ATTENTION ALL PARENTS!!! Posted: 3/3/2007 5:28:37 PM | Hi everyone, A good friend of mine found this, thought you should all take a look.
The home life of every child in the country is to be recorded on a national database in the ultimate intrusion of the nanny state, it has emerged. Computer records holding details of school performance, diet and even whether their parents provide a 'positive role model' for 12 million children will be held by the Government. Police, social workers, teachers and doctors will have access to the database and have powers to flag up 'concerns' where children are not meeting criteria laid down by the state. The 'children's index', which will cost the taxpayer £224 million, will even monitor whether youngsters are eating five portions of fruit and vegetables a day, whether they go to church or are struggling to get good marks at school. One assessment records whether a pre-school child is in day care - suggesting that those who are looked after by their mothers at home are not conforming to the state ideal. Critics said the plan would sideline on an unprecedented scale the rights of parents to bring up their children in the way they see fit and amount to a 'bar-coding' of youngsters. They questioned how the Government knew better than parents on the correct way to bring up a child, and warned that it would deter decent families from seeking help for fear of being branded at risk. It could take just two warning flags on a child's file to trigger an investigation. The Government handed itself sweeping powers in the 2004 Children Act to record basic information of all children in England and Wales, based on information from the register of births and child benefit. The Act followed the death of eight-year-old Victoria Climbie - whose neglect by her aunt and her boyfriend was missed by social workers. Section 12 of the act limits information to name, address, date of birth, gender, a unique id, contact details of parent or carer, school, GP practice and other practioners dealing with the child. But the Government wants to extend the records to include detailed assessments of a child's life. Ministers insist it will act as an early warning system to highlight children at risk. The database has already been piloted in 12 local authorities and the Government plans to make it nationwide from next year. It will try to introduce a regulation in Parliament in the autumn - allowing it to become law with barely any scrutiny by MPs. Civil liberties and children's campaigners are to hold a conference at the London School of Economics on Tuesday to highlight their concerns. Terri Dowty, director of children's rights group Arch, said: 'Who is bringing children up? Are parents effectively nannies for the state's children or are children born to families and the state just helps families when they ask for it?' Dr Eileen Munro, an expert in child protection at the LSE, said: 'The authority of parents is being eroded because the children's services, health education and social care are being asked to intervene. 'On the whole parents are the greatest source of safety and welfare that any child has.' Jonathan Bamford, the Assistant Information Commissioner which polices access to information, said there was no justification for keeping check on 12 million children when only a small proportion were at risk. He said: 'When you are looking for a needle in a haystack, is it necessary to keep building bigger haystacks? 'The cause for concern indicator against a child's record is expressed in very broad language. For example, it could be cause for concern that a child is not progressing well towards his or her French GCSE.' Shami Chakrabarti, director of Liberty, said: 'We are heading towards a situation in which an entire generation of kids won't know what privacy is, as though we are preparing them for prison rather than life in a free society. It is time to ask ourselves why we sacrifice the privacy of our children first.' Shadow Education Secretary David Willetts said: 'We are going to have bar-coded babies. This project is going to cost £224m over the three years to 2008 with subsequent operating costs of £41m a year. Would it not be better to focus this money on families in real need?' A Department for Education spokesman said: 'We need to ensure that professionals work across service boundaries for the benefit of children. 'Our proposals balance the need to do everything we can to improve children's life chances whilst ensuring strong safeguards to make sure that information stored is minimal, secure and used appropriately. 'Parents and young people will be able to ask to see their data and make amendments and will retain full rights under the Data Protection Act.'
I don't think there is anything postive I can say about this coming into effect. Its called the childrens index, PLEASE SO NOT DELETE, THIS IS NOT FALSE, GOOGLE IT! | |
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| ATTENTION ALL PARENTS!!! Posted: 3/3/2007 5:46:34 PM | The Nanny State, no pun intended. Next we will receive detailed instructions on how to teach our children to wipe their bottoms.
However, having said that, a small percentage of parents do need guidance, unfortunately parenting does not come with an instruction manual and most parents, most definitely myself, make mistakes.
This is an extreme which is highly inappropriate and quite ridiculous.
Parent power, would politicians dare to risk our vote? | |
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| ATTENTION ALL PARENTS!!! Posted: 3/3/2007 5:55:55 PM | They are trying to do this without it being political, how do i put it? They want it to be like the human rights act.
I for one am not happy, it was said today at a protest in Birmingham, that "2 bruises is enough for a social worker to come knocking on ur door"
When I was a child I was clocking up 2 or more bruises a week! not because my parents were battering me, but because I was jumping off roofs and falling out of trees, ramming my bike in to walls, doing what kids do!!!!!
what do they want?
its going to get to the stage where ur putting a crash helmet and knee and elbow pads on ur kids over 12 layers of clothing!!!!!!!
EDIT - Yes, some parents do need guidance, and i a all for them recieving support when its needed etc but for every child to be placed on what is effectively the 'at risk' register, is utterly ridiculous! | |
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| ATTENTION ALL PARENTS!!! Posted: 3/3/2007 5:59:48 PM |
When I was a child I was clocking up 2 or more bruises a week! not because my parents were battering me, but because I was jumping off roofs and falling out of trees, ramming my bike in to walls, doing what kids do!!!!!
I had more than two bruises a day!!!!!!!!!
This country needs to get the Social Services department sorted, helping kids who are being abused, not taking awake kids for not getting their daily allowance of fruit and veg ffs....
This will turn into a witch hunt... people having their kids taken into care, it will all end in terrible tears... | |
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| ATTENTION ALL PARENTS!!! Posted: 3/3/2007 6:11:07 PM | i agree, i was always black and blue, if i did'nt fall out of a tree id get hit in the face by a bat (oooo i remember that one well)
every other child in this state will end up on the at risk register or be put in care........this is not going to work at all!!! how will do they suggest they are gonna moniter every child...id like to see some get my lad to eat veg!! i been at it for 15 years lol and he still wont have it, and anyway they have given kids so many rights now!!! so surly this would be classed as an infringment on them rights??? so now as tax payers we are going to be paying for another *its up policy that cant be seen through!!! perfect | |
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| ATTENTION ALL PARENTS!!! Posted: 3/3/2007 6:12:51 PM | iTS AN INFRINGEMENT OF OUR HUMAN RIGHT
RIGHT TO A PRIVATE AND FAMILY LIFE.
PLUS MANY OTHERS.
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cargy
| Joined: 10/13/2006 Msg: 7 | |
| ATTENTION ALL PARENTS!!! Posted: 3/3/2007 6:29:00 PM | Ahh the savage irony of a world where we can't let our kids play conkers or climb trees lest they injure themselves, yet under-age girls can get an abortion without the parents being aware!
My experience of childrens' Social Workers is one of people so utterly convinced that they know what is best that they hear nothing outside of their own arrogant beliefs, and are prepared to lie and manipulate to get what they want regardless.
When it looks remotely like they have made a wrong call, they will stonewall and close ranks, and then laugh because any "independant" investigation is carried out by someone appointed by them, paid for by them, and reporting to them. Ohh, and unfortunately any phone calls recorded without their consent can't be considered as evidence, but they will refuse point blank to discuss matters when you tell them they are being recorded!
I hope the above IS a fake. If not, I've said it before and I'll say it again:
God help our children | |
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| ATTENTION ALL PARENTS!!! Posted: 3/3/2007 6:38:06 PM | Hitler's brownshirts anyone?
Yeah, before anyone says, i'm aware of Godwin's law, I just see Godwin's law as an excuse for people to be ignorant of oppresive regimes...
I am fuming too and i'm not a parent.
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| ATTENTION ALL PARENTS!!! Posted: 3/3/2007 6:45:03 PM | I'm just worried i wont be able to take my little boy to the pub anymore. It's been part of our saturday routine since he was 5 ,that we have a few beers after an afternoon in the woods Shooting squirrels.
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| ATTENTION ALL PARENTS!!! Posted: 3/3/2007 6:45:25 PM | Is all that for real. I'm gobsmacked.
Excuse me, my child, i'll bring him up the best way i can. Not having a bunch of do gooders, thinking they know better, on how to raise him. I am really shocked, that this is there intentions.
There's already things in place such as if your child attends the hospital, a letter is sent to the families GP. If children are in nursery, then any concerns are picked up from there, and suppose to be passed on and dealt with.
There are so many cases of abused children each year, and i dread to think what the true figures are of unreported abuse.
Hmmm who is footing the bill to pay for all this? Us?!
There have been many cases highlighted in the media about jobs not being done properly by the so called professionals. Families have been let down. So pay from them to get better training to help and support them. NOT to take over, unless the children are truly at risk at home.
I'm a family support worker. We have a lot contact with families. If there's a problem, we work with them, not against them. And with this planned agenda, it's taking away our rights/privacy and choices.
What about all the missing children out there, that have run away from home. End up being homeless, drugs, prostitution etc. Help the ones that need help NOW. Not the what if's.
Prevention is the key thing here. But this way, is taking it too far.
I've still got your child bumped his head today letters, from way back when my son was in nursery.
I've only kept them, because he was always banging his head. I two trips to causality from nursery, and one on his 2nd day at school, due to head injuries, whilst he wasn't in my care.
But fek, if they ever x-ray his head, i dread to think what damage has been done, due to all the knocks.
I've got a boy who's nearly 9. He climbs trees, falls off his bike. Play fights with his mates. Goes too fast on his skate board and has come off it. He's got a right bruise on his arm, and scratches on his legs. Kids get bruises when they play. So will the new laws they are wanting to bring in. I'd be investigated. For what?! How much hurt and upset is it going to cause innocent families?
I think if this actually happens, there will be uproar all over the world. | |
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| ATTENTION ALL PARENTS!!! Posted: 3/3/2007 6:46:36 PM | My experience of childrens' Social Workers is one of people so utterly convinced that they know what is best that they hear nothing outside of their own arrogant beliefs, and are prepared to lie and manipulate to get what they want regardless.
When it looks remotely like they have made a wrong call, they will stonewall and close ranks, and then laugh because any "independant" investigation is carried out by someone appointed by them, paid for by them, and reporting to them.
I totally 100% agree with you there matey. I said on a thread here once before about the following true story....
My nephew has Downs, and my sister got herself a social worker to help out with things such as getting occupational therapy quicker etc, as was recommended to her. Her first social worker was fine, the next was utter crap. She decided that Matthews excema (sorry wrong spelling but it is late) was actually cigarette burns.... When social services contacted my sister and it all came out as you can imagine everyone was very angry, Matthew is so well loved and cared for its unbelievable, and when another social worker came to see my sister she actually said that it was clear for anyone to see and that the marks didnt even resemble burns...
Yet there is a Couple living opposite me who have 3 kids, one is inside for murdering a homeless person at the age of 11 (yes this is true, was in the papers) and their eldest child has gone onto produce many kids, each of which is taken away from them due to severe neglect, yet him and his girlfriend keep on producing children... each of which is then taken away from them, maybe when severe deliberate abuse is proven medical intervention should be forced, such as the female being forced to have a coil and the man injected with something magical to stop them producing sperm (one day, if things progress medically)
there will be, I am sure, amazing social workers that will post on this thread, but what they need to realise is that Social Services is a complete shambles and regardless of how good they are, it needs to be changed NOW. The cases such as that young girl Victoria Columbae (wrong spelling again i suspect) shows how badly these cases can go, children can be taken away from loving, good parents yet children are abused and left to rot basically due to mistakes made that no one will own up to | |
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| ATTENTION ALL PARENTS!!! Posted: 3/3/2007 9:50:35 PM | Hospitals already have the "power" to keep in anybody they consider "at risk", particularly children, until social service input has been organised.
This register will create a mammoth database which will require whole platoons of social workers to service the necessary calls. For example, will they be calling on every family where a child's school grades have dropped for a few months??
It is another example of the nanny state attempting to take over responsibilities that are the parents, however, some parents as pointed out above need the input anyway.
The Victoria Climbae case was appalling but will a register such as this pick up those kinds of children, Im unsure on that. | |
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| ATTENTION ALL PARENTS!!! Posted: 3/4/2007 12:21:09 AM |
whether youngsters are eating five portions of fruit and vegetables a day, whether they go to church or are struggling to get good marks at school.
Okay church and marks can be found out easily.
The Five-A-Day, firstly how are they going to find this out? Neglectful parents are hardly like to admit if they don't do this and secondly it is no good asking small children this... so where are they going to get this info?
Small children are notoriously unreliable for factual information.. my friends little boy just moved school (4 yr old), she asked if he had talked to the other children and made friends he said no, he had not and he had done "nothing" all day, he said I like it, it is fun but I didn't do anything just sat there....... she worried.... asked the teacher.... teacher said he had two friends he had repeatedly talked to an played with and also he talked to all the children... she didn't even ask about the "doing nothing" | |
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| ATTENTION ALL PARENTS!!! Posted: 3/4/2007 2:40:36 AM | To Puddles,
I wouldnt be surprised if they checked our credit card statements. or requested that we hand them our till reciepts from asda. Hell, it wouldnt even surprise me if u had to write ur name and address on the back of a reciept and post it in a box at the supermarket so they can check that u have bought apples and carrots etc to last u a week per 5 a day. I have posted this on 5 forums and a lot of the replies are about people moving abroad.
The government have absolutely NO RESPECT for its people, obviously not everyone can leave the UK but wouldnt it be funny watching Tony Blair try to run a country with no1 in it?
As said by someone in a different forum, " I give it 3 years before the UK as we know it is nothing short of a ghost town, just desolate wasteland, that people can't bear to be a part in, the UK government is forcing people to give up their heritage or give up their human rights and be robot statistics to a country and government whos hunger for power has gone far beyond the realms of greed"
I totally agree with that. I think I shall wait a while and see if this comes into force, but i think moving abroad is the safer option for everyone.
who'd have thought that the British People would one day be seeking assylum? | |
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| ATTENTION ALL PARENTS!!! Posted: 3/4/2007 2:49:44 AM | Okay, I am not a parent but was a child badly let down by the system.
I can see the need for elements of this but I think the most pressignissue is not monitoring every parent and childs life but sorting out the departments that are meant to help those at risk.
Too many kids slip through the net while others suffer unnecessarilydue to incompetencies in the way child welfare in this country is dealt with.
Sort out what we already have in place instead of increasing everyone's workload!!! I cannot see how this new register will be any sort of an improvement on what the government and social services are already doing. | |
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| ATTENTION ALL PARENTS!!! Posted: 3/4/2007 2:53:51 AM |
The Five-A-Day, firstly how are they going to find this out? Neglectful parents are hardly like to admit if they don't do this and secondly it is no good asking small children this... so where are they going to get this info?
puddles: they get this information from your store loyalty cards (sainsburys, tesco's etc.,) everything you buy is kept on computer, to see which foods are popular etc., thats why special offers and money coupons sent directly to your house are based on items you buy regulary!
A report in the paper (Daily Express) the other day said the council would use this information too (along with whether you use a dating site!! ffs.) in assessing council tax!!
OP: Apparently future criminals can be detected at an early age, judged on parental behaviour, what children eat and their social background etc.,. I read an article in the paper a few months ago that said they (the gov.) would like the opportunity to be able to pick out potential criminals and re-educate them at an early stage... | |
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| ATTENTION ALL PARENTS!!! Posted: 3/4/2007 3:10:56 AM | This is ridiculous
they are thinking yes lets put it all in a database like we did with car tax with the car tax it spits out all the naughty people who have not filled out the SORN or paid their tax. Even that has flaws.
It will only be as good as the data that is fed in. So I can't see what they will gain from this. Wow they will be able to produce some really nice looking graphs. and social workers will get reports from the computer system.
This Still does not prevent things being missed. It's Flawed from day one in my opinion. | |
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| ATTENTION ALL PARENTS!!! Posted: 3/4/2007 3:16:29 AM |
puddles: they get this information from your store loyalty cards (sainsburys, tesco's etc.,) everything you buy is kept on computer, to see which foods are popular etc., thats why special offers and money coupons sent directly to your house are based on items you buy regulary!
I shall await my child being removed then as I buy fruit and veg & eggs at the local farm shop, meat from a proper butchers....
They will think I am starving my child as I only buy store cupboard items at the supermarket, flour, etc...
I bake my own, jam my own and cook properly, therefore I can see them swooping down on me.
I also pay cash for things so ........ hmm ???????/ | |
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| ATTENTION ALL PARENTS!!! Posted: 3/4/2007 3:36:32 AM |
My experience of childrens' Social Workers is one of people so utterly convinced that they know what is best that they hear nothing outside of their own arrogant beliefs, and are prepared to lie and manipulate to get what they want regardless.
When it looks remotely like they have made a wrong call, they will stonewall and close ranks, and then laugh because any "independant" investigation is carried out by someone appointed by them, paid for by them, and reporting to them.
i also agree 100% on this not as a parent, but as the child! i had a social worker as a child and what a nightmare she was. i used to watch for her coming up the front path and climb out the back window and get the heck out of there, just to avoid her! | |
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| ATTENTION ALL PARENTS!!! Posted: 3/4/2007 3:39:23 AM | puddles: If all the information is being held in a database including that of dating sites, your post will be read and your child safe, obviously you are a good parent!! (maybe you should have highlighted it though!)
Seriously though, this whole thing is enough to make you paranoid.
Edit: Potteriesgent a store card is a loyalty card that gains points which you redeem for goods or money off your bill. ie. Nectar Card at Sainsburys. | |
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| ATTENTION ALL PARENTS!!! Posted: 3/4/2007 3:42:56 AM | | My 14 yr old son assures me that tomato sauce counts as one of the five a dayas does strawberry ice cream. What is a store card? | |
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| ATTENTION ALL PARENTS!!! Posted: 3/4/2007 4:05:30 AM | Now why am not surprised with this bit of news. I wouldn't have said it was a government directive, you will most probably find if you look into this that it will be a EU directive, that has been pushed through parliment on the sly. I was was watching the paper review last night on sky and in one paper, it was saying that children will be finger printed when their parents apply for a passport and it will go on a nataional data base. There is also rumors floating about that they want to micro chip children, like I said rumors, with no actual prove to back it up. But it is still rather worrying if these rumors turn out to be fact. It's not only conkers that have been stopped, my daughter said they had nothing to do at school, during break, So I said why not have a game of British Bull dog, to be told, we're not allowed to play that, incase someone gets hurt. Nor are they allowed to play dodge ball. Isn't that the whole point of being a kid, the rough and tumble, coming home with scrapes, My kids get fruit and veg nearly everyday but i'll be damn if i'm having some do gooder tell me how I feed my children or how I disapline them. Next thing you know they will be telling you, you will need to have CCTV in your home to moniter how you interact displine and feed your kids. | |
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| ATTENTION ALL PARENTS!!! Posted: 3/4/2007 4:56:26 AM | I also heard on the news on radio this morning, that they are going to do fingerprinting children as young as 11 years old for their databases......by 2010.
Getting very much like Big Brother.....i think it's a tad creepy!!!
What the hell is the Government doing eh!!!
Haha i can imagine soon enough that the country will be like The Island (anybody seen that film) lol
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| ATTENTION ALL PARENTS!!! Posted: 3/4/2007 4:58:12 AM | actually, I think this sounds like a good idea!!
if it can help stop children being sexually abused and beaten in their homes then this has got the 'thumbs up' from me. If your a decent a parent you won't have to worry about it! but sadly a lot of parents need a beating themselves because they are too stupid to look after kids.
There is advantages and disadvantages in everything, but I don't think this will be as bad as the OP makes out!
damn, all you people moan about this and about that, when someone tried to do something about it you lot MOAN AGAIN!! give it a chance, see how it goes, it's not the SYSTEM that is the problem it's the people working with the SYSTEM that are too damn lazy to implement the SYSTEM! | |
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cargy
| Joined: 10/13/2006 Msg: 25 | |
| ATTENTION ALL PARENTS!!! Posted: 3/4/2007 5:15:41 AM | If your a decent a parent you won't have to worry about it!
If only that were true! We've already seen examples in this thread if you read thru it.
THe key problem is that they are so intent in finding problems that they view all with suspicion.
Personally I'd like to see every adult who had their lives ruined by these Gestapo types as a kid, take action (Either legally orby formal complaint)
They'd soon have to get their house in order. Sadly most of them are so hurt that all they want to do is put it behind them and let go.
So sadly; quis tacet consentit (To remain silent gives consent) | |
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