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 Author Thread: Cherokee Racism
 cougar99

Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 1
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History
Cherokee Racism
Posted: 3/4/2007 1:03:09 AM

Tribe revokes membership of an estimated 2,800 descendants of slaves

MSNBC News Services
Updated: 10:52 p.m. CT March 3, 2007
OKLAHOMA CITY - Cherokee Nation members voted Saturday to revoke the tribal citizenship of an estimated 2,800 descendants of the people the Cherokee once owned as slaves.

With all 32 precincts reporting, 76.6 percent had voted in favor of an amendment to the tribal constitution that would limit citizenship to descendants of “by blood” tribe members as listed on the federal Dawes Commission’s rolls from more than 100 years ago.

The commission, set up by a Congress bent on breaking up Indians’ collective lands and parceling them out to tribal citizens, drew up two rolls, one listing Cherokees by blood and the other listing freedmen, a roll of blacks regardless of whether they had Indian blood.

Some opponents of the ballot question argued that attempts to remove freedmen from the tribe were motivated by racism.

“I’m very disappointed that people bought into a lot of rhetoric and falsehoods by tribal leaders,” said Marilyn Vann, president of the Oklahoma City-based Descendants of Freedmen of Five Civilized Tribes.

Tribal officials said the vote was a matter of self-determination.

“The Cherokee people exercised the most basic democratic right, the right to vote,” tribal Principal Chief Chad Smith said. “Their voice is clear as to who should be citizens of the Cherokee Nation. No one else has the right to make that determination.’

Smith said turnout — more than 8,700 — was higher than turnout for the tribal vote on the Cherokee Nation constitution four years ago.

“On lots of issues, when they go to identity, they become things that people pay attention to,” Smith said.

The petition drive for the ballot measure followed a March 2006 ruling by the Cherokee Nation Supreme Court that said an 1866 treaty assured freedmen descendants of tribal citizenship. Since then, more than 2,000 freedmen descendants have enrolled as citizens of the tribe.

Big money at stake
Advocates of expelling the freedmen call it a matter of safeguarding tribal resources, which include a $350 million annual budget from federal and tribal revenue, and Cherokees' share of a gambling industry that, for U.S. tribes overall, takes in $22 billion a year. The grass-roots campaign for expulsion has given heavy play to warnings that keeping freedmen in the Cherokee Nation could encourage thousands more to sign up for a slice of the tribal pie.

"Don't get taken advantage of by these people. They will suck you dry," Darren Buzzard, an advocate of expelling the freedmen, wrote last summer in a widely circulated e-mail denounced by freedmen.**** "Don't let black freedmen back you into a corner. PROTECT CHEROKEE CULTURE FOR OUR CHILDREN. FOR OUR DAUGHTER[S] . . . FIGHT AGAINST THE INFILTRATION."***

The issue is a remnant of the "peculiar institution" of Southern slavery and a discordant note set against the ringing statements of racial solidarity often voiced by people of color.

"It's oppressed people that's oppressing people," said Verdie Triplett, 53, an outspoken freedman of the Choctaw tribe, which, like the Cherokee, once owned black slaves.

Cherokees, along with Choctaws, Chickasaws, Creeks and Seminoles, were long known as the "Five Civilized Tribes" because they adopted many of the ways of their white neighbors in the South, including the holding of black slaves.

Court challenges by freedmen descendants seeking to stop the election were denied, but a federal judge left open the possibility that the case could be refiled if Cherokees voted to lift their membership rights.

Tribal spokesman Mike Miller said the period to protest the election lasts until March 12 and Cherokee courts are the proper venue for a challenge.

Vann promised a protest within the next week. “We don’t accept this fraudulent election,” Vann said.

The Associated Press and The Washington Post contributed to this report.


So racism is colorblind, I must say I am shocked to see a a segment of people who dealt with so much hardship and intolerance, find the same beliefs acceptable.
 whothehellknows

Joined: 7/23/2006
Msg: 2
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History
Cherokee Racism
Posted: 3/4/2007 5:53:08 AM

So racism is colorblind, I must say I am shocked to see a a segment of people who dealt with so much hardship and intolerance, find the same beliefs acceptable.


Hmmm... I don't see how it is racist to say you have to actually be a Cherokee to be considered a member of the Cherokee tribe.
 Focusontoday

Joined: 2/20/2007
Msg: 3
Cherokee Racism
Posted: 3/4/2007 6:20:48 AM
We have to see ourselves as the human league...why do we have to catagorize ourselves to make our forefathers proud????

I work in an office that is very diverse..we get along well and there is no need to catagorize who we are....it depends a lot on that chip that some humans carry that harbors insecurities and hate to others who do not fit their criteria...

Life is what you make it....it's a shame that human faults gets in the way of life, liberty and the persuit of happiness...
 johnnnyjohnny

Joined: 12/25/2006
Msg: 4
Cherokee Racism
Posted: 3/4/2007 8:08:08 AM
http://www.cherokee.org/home.aspx?section=story&id=cXYzu1nHhnw=

The amendment limits citizenship in the Cherokee Nation to descendants of people who are listed on the Final Rolls of the Cherokee Nation as Cherokee, Delaware or Shawnee and excludes descendants of those listed on Intermarried White and Freedmen rolls taken at the same time.

Sounds like greed which in the end will kick them in the butt as the nation will dwindle every time a member marries out of race or bloodline.
 Babylonia

Joined: 1/27/2005
Msg: 5
Cherokee Racism
Posted: 3/4/2007 8:59:30 AM
Yes, it is racism. Look at the fact that they even exclude bloodlines that intermarried with whites.

That flies directly in the face of their claim to only include blood descendents. To put in into perspective, I am still a descendent of Italians even though my father intermarried with an English descendent. Their blood still flows in the veins of those children born from intermarried couples.
 RonniG

Joined: 8/12/2004
Msg: 6
Cherokee Racism
Posted: 3/4/2007 9:02:40 AM
So you would actually have to have Cherokee blood to be a tribal memeber! WOW!

What a concept! I can understand this.

It would be like claiming to be Cajun French when you family was never from Acadia, but you lived in Louisiana and ate Crawfish. Doesn't make you Cajun! (Not every one from Acadia was actually French btw- there are some German names in there too!) It was political at the time just as this is and was political and social. It is about defining who you are and where your family comes from and where you define heritage. And yes it is about greed, those who are Cherokee and those who want to be Cherokee. We know that anytime there is money, land or power at stake someone will try to get in on the action. There were African descendents, Freedmen that owned slaves too.

Unfortunate for some families that American history is and never was fair. And, yes even the French speaking were punished for speaking French as were the American Indians for speaking the native tongue. Let the Cherokee govern in the sovereignity promised them.
 cougar99

Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 7
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History
Cherokee Racism
Posted: 3/4/2007 9:53:34 AM
Hmmm... I don't see how it is racist to say you have to actually be a Cherokee to be considered a member of the Cherokee tribe


Pay careful attention to the last sentence


The commission, set up by a Congress bent on breaking up Indians’ collective lands and parceling them out to tribal citizens, drew up two rolls, one listing Cherokees by blood and the other listing freedmen, a roll of blacks regardless of whether they had Indian blood.


Apparently even if you have Indian blood it doesn't matter, perhaps we are seeing an ethnic cleansing, to purify the tribe. Bottom line who is pure, thru time we have all acquired ancestries through no choice of our own. Being proud of ones heritage is something we can all embrace, now when you chose to separate, you not only commit a disservice to yourself, but to those around you.


Let the Cherokee govern in the sovereignity promised them


Promised by who?...So banning of interracial marriages, separate housing for those who are not pure, separate schools,etc...This is a good thing?
 Babylonia

Joined: 1/27/2005
Msg: 8
Cherokee Racism
Posted: 3/4/2007 9:57:35 AM

Apparently even if you have Indian blood it doesn't matter, perhaps we are seeing an ethnic cleansing, to purify the tribe.


This is exactly what I thought when I read the link. It's an ethnic/tribal cleansing IMO, especially considering that they are exlcuding those who do have their blood.
 Uptowner

Joined: 2/1/2007
Msg: 9
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History
Cherokee Racism
Posted: 3/4/2007 11:34:08 AM
It's not our nation.

But note the parallel of the US situation with the Mexican border. Complaints are made that undocumented aliens will give birth to their children while they are on US soil, in effect deluting the citizenship of the those now in the country -- and here we have the Cherokee attempting to " PROTECT CHEROKEE CULTURE FOR OUR CHILDREN. FOR OUR DAUGHTER[S] . . . FIGHT AGAINST THE INFILTRATION" in response to freedmen descendents enrolling as members of the tribe.

Seems like basic human nature -- in the zero sum game that is life, people will try to protect what they feel is theirs -- particularly when the other group looks different from them.
 mungojoe

Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 10
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History
Cherokee Racism
Posted: 3/4/2007 12:41:55 PM
I can't quite agree with the idea that one has to be 'full blood' Cherokee to have citizenship. Being born of one Cherokee parent should be sufficient though it is not necessarily unreasonable to say that just because you had a Cherokee ancestor you are not automatically qualified for citizenship (that's not really different from me saying that I'm entitled to British citizenship because I can trace my direct lineage to a British citizen one or more generations before I was born).

If, however, someone was registered as a citizen under the old rules they should be able to retain that (normally a practice in such things).

On the other side of the matter, I'm not seeing how this is really that different from regular cultural practices in the US. Historically, with blacks, native americans and immigrants and currently, with the tumult over "anchor babies", undocumented immigrants or even the segregation of homosexual couples from the same rights and considerations as heterosexual couples. Seems to be more of the "everybody is equal but some are more equal than others" that is occurring and has occurred with frequent regularity.
 RedneckHippy

Joined: 8/7/2006
Msg: 11
Cherokee Racism
Posted: 3/4/2007 9:44:56 PM
Hell, I'll toss my CDIB card into this one.....

While this is indeed shocking in a modern society,
it really comes as no surprise. A few of the nations (tribes)
have, for quite awhile denied membership regardless of the
degree of Indian blood, even if an ancestor was on the "rolls".

It could have something to do with the amount of blond
haired, blue eyed people claiming to be "part injun", (perhaps
they're just overly fond of Ranger Walker's "vision quests"?)
trying to interfere in tribal business and tribal politics.
There's a native wrtten book titled "We Talk, You Listen"
that touches on this neauveaux(sp?) chique trendy thing.

Each nation (tribe) is, according to treaty, a sovereign nation.
Suibject to it's own governing body, it's own laws, and it's
own customs. And according to federal laws, and various court
rulings, including the U.S. Supreme Court, tribes may blatantly
show favoritism in tribal affairs, openly discriminating based on
tribal membership, and/or degree of Indian blood, if a member of
same or other tribe.

Some tribes openly discourage new membership.

Other tribes auction off roll-numbers/tribal membership
to the highest bidder, when the last known living "heir"
to that roll-number has passed away.

A few tribes even sell roll-numbers/tribal membership to
anyone (regardless of race) who wants it.


And I completely disagree with discrimination,
favoritism, and all forms of prejudice.

Not that it matters, but undoubtedly someone will
be along shortly to "challenge" my "Indian-ness".
So, once again for the record, I'm a card carrying
member of the Cree Nation.



P.S. This news of the Cherokee Nation, does it
include the Eastern Band of Cherokee as well?
 nicktomlinrhys

Joined: 5/15/2006
Msg: 12
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History
Cherokee Racism
Posted: 3/5/2007 3:19:55 AM
lol


Whats the problem ?
I don't see this as racist .

Good on them.Only issue I would have is that they should allow half natives to join their band......lol Otherwise not racist at all.
About time that they started reascerting themselves and their rights.Everybody else seems to have been catered for - to a never ending degree .

Always strikes me as strange that these never seem to get no sympathy and no promotion.

Lets have more of their history please.
Lets have more days set aside for their big chiefs......lol
Lets have a Native American for president.....lol

Been there and its not too obviously apparent that North America values this history and its a crying shame.
 cougar99

Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 13
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History
Cherokee Racism
Posted: 3/5/2007 5:50:14 AM

Whats the problem ?
I don't see this as racist .


Ok maybe it wasn't clear enough, again


Cherokee Nation members voted Saturday to revoke the tribal citizenship of an estimated 2,800 descendants of the people the Cherokee once owned as slaves.


Now there are also Irish, Spanish and even Scottish people in the nation, why was this directive revoking the membership of just the decendants of slaves.

Here's some very interesting reading regarding the relationship between the slaves, and the various nations. I didn't post the entire article just a few excerpts.


It is important to note at this point that Africans and mixed bloods were not just religious leaders among the “exile” communities of Muskogees and Seminoles, the same also existed within the communities of the Cherokee, Choctaw, and Chickasaw. Most of the early records of the missionaries note that their earliest converts were the enslaved African-Americans within Native American communities. [45] Even as late as 1818, the missionaries referred to their “Sabbath schools” as “our Black Schools,” because of the presence of Africans as both students and teachers. [46] As few missionaries spoke the native languages, the Africans played an intermediary role as teacher, and of necessity, preacher.

Without a doubt, the Trail of Tears fell hardest upon those 1000 African Americans were forced to march, many without shoes, through the dead of winter into Oklahoma. [80] The route to Oklahoma was blazed by African-Americans, “My grandparents were helped and protected by very faithful Negro slaves who... went ahead of the wagons and killed any wild beast who came along.” [81] In spite of the fact that they were given the responsibility to guard (with “axes and guns”) the caravans at night, few of the slaves made their escape.
The newspaper reports of the time detailed a “peaceful and deathless trek of the Cherokees,” [82] but missionary Elizur Butler estimated conservatively that over 4600 Indians and African-Americans died on that nine-month march.

More recent estimates put the number of deaths at nearly 8,000 people who died as a direct result of the Cherokee Trail of Tears. [83] An estimate of the number of African-Americans who died on the Cherokee Trail of Tears could be as much as 1/4 to 1/3 of those who made the trek west. If we can assume similar numbers of deaths among the Choctaw slaves as the Cherokee, perhaps 100 of the Choctaw slaves died in route. Many Choctaws stayed in Alabama and formed a community of resistance with African slaves similar to Fort Negro which proved to be a thorn in the side for later governments
http://www.us-data.org/us/minges/underdog.html
 Dijana

Joined: 2/5/2007
Msg: 14
Cherokee Racism
Posted: 3/5/2007 6:56:53 AM
unless we walk a mile in the Cherokee's moccasins we dont have a voice on this....Lived on a Chippewa (sp?) reservation for a season and learned enough to know that I know nothing....I have my own thoughts but they are tainted by my culture, background, public school teaching, and the democratic society we live in...I highly respect the real Americans and their way of thinking is not our own....more power to them..and yes...where are the holidays honoring them?
 allcrakedup

Joined: 9/22/2006
Msg: 15
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History
Cherokee Racism
Posted: 3/5/2007 9:14:03 AM
Firstly there are $22,000,000,000 reasons for this. They are attempting to stop part blood theft of what they think is theirs!

Secondly the "civilised tribes" were confederate Allies, these freedmen are the descendents of the tribes freed slaves, a definition that was forced upon the tribes.

Thirdly, if you check it you dont have to be full blood C to be on the roll you can be half C half white, you just cant be black and part blood, otherwise you are entered onto the freedman roll

Final though, we are poking our noses in to a culture which is alien in a sovereign nation, and we all knows what happens then!!! I dont agree with what they are doing but then, it is their country and their rules!

Are Americans not taught American history?
 nicktomlinrhys

Joined: 5/15/2006
Msg: 16
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History
Cherokee Racism
Posted: 3/5/2007 9:31:21 AM
cougar 99

Thanks for that link but no.......its still not racist .

You can't be African American and Cherokee or whoever,just because these folks were on the Trail Of Tears.

Even you say the ethnic origin of the participants.
If it shouldn't/doesn't mean anything........why mention it ?

And you must have a vested interest in this on behalf of African Americans..............why is it racist if the Native Americans have a vested interest ?

You posted the link because you felt African Americans were being discriminated against.Correct me if I am wrong.

Maybe they feel put upon.
And they want to redress the balance and I don't blame them at all.

In all truth.....I would say of all the nations....they have had it the worst and I feel that N.America needs to cherish something that is pretty fundemental here where the Native history,culture is concerned.

Like I said....where's the days set aside for the Big Chiefs,the history,the Chief for president.

Sure I am an outsider........but I don't like the fact that Americans have no regard for the Native Americans and its oh so obvious .Theres racism against them and no one bats an eyelid. They try to look after there own and its shock horror........no....I don't get it.

I was reading up on Hilary Clinton and apparently she is unreceptive to Native Americans (to put it mildly) but shes very pro African Americans .Well see............that passes by most people and I don't know why .The N.American culture seems to be geared along black and white terms and yet the country and the world is full of people of these two and other ethnic groups who deserve due care and consideration,too.

Native Americans deserve it more than most.

If they stand to gain BILLIONS.......good on them.............its theirs.
 lsmatrix

Joined: 2/22/2006
Msg: 17
Cherokee Racism
Posted: 3/5/2007 9:34:25 AM
Are Americans not taught American history?-----> Apparently not.
 cougar99

Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 18
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History
Cherokee Racism
Posted: 3/5/2007 11:46:00 AM
And you must have a vested interest in this on behalf of African Americans..............why is it racist if the Native Americans have a vested interest ?

You posted the link because you felt African Americans were being discriminated against.Correct me if I am wrong.


Well as far as history can tell the the journey consited of freedmen and Indians who shared families and cultures along with traditions, maybe you can show me where there were any other races involved. I posted the link because there was at one time a united struggle with both groups working towards a common ground, and that ground has been broken.

As for the history lesson, what were Indians called before Columbus landed here, seeing as how the name America is comes from Amerigo Vespucci. If thats the case then why aren't there Nordic indians instead of American indians., since the Vikings were here before Columbus....historically speaking. So what is a true American, there were also many Spanish here, who were forced from their lands also, and pushed back into Mexico..so are they real Americans since they also inhabited the land also.


but I don't like the fact that Americans have no regard for the Native Americans and its oh so obvious


Isn't that statement a bit racist by assuming Americans, instead of some Americans, have no regard for Native Americans. What you hear about North Americans and their not being respectful of other races, is a gross generalization.

Because I brought attention to a subject matter. I am in no way saying the five nations do not deserve respect, and I also feel the government abused them terribly. It does appear nicktomlinrhys you feel I am also a narrow thinker as well as racisr and ignorant like so many others, by your insinuation. I have news for you...I am pro mankind, which means I have highest respect for others and their cultures, and I have proven it in many ways, can you say the same, or is it better to just point a finger.

You like to read , read about the blood quantum laws, or the Curtis act.


 sombient

Joined: 2/7/2007
Msg: 19
Cherokee Racism
Posted: 3/5/2007 11:47:57 AM
Oh my fellow POFers, there is much more to this story than meets the eye.

http://www.reznetnews.org/news/070212_cherokee/printable/


Cherokees and other tribes brought slaves with them, when the federal government forced them to leave the Southeast and march to the Indian Territory that would become Oklahoma. The Cherokee tribe fought for the South in the Civil War. Afterward, the U.S. government demanded Cherokees free their slaves and make them citizens of the Cherokee Nation.

The people, dubbed "freedmen," embraced citizenship. They voted in tribal elections and ran for office. They served on the tribal council. They started businesses and became teachers in schools for freedmen children.

What's difficult to know is how much before and after slavery ended — the lives of Cherokees and blacks intertwined and the lines between them blurred.

In the last 20 years, modern-day freedmen — descended from former slaves, free blacks and others — have tried to reclaim citizenship. The resulting conflict provokes charges and countercharges that racism, greed and dirty politics are all at play.


Of the estimated 250-270K tribal members of the Cherokee Nation, a very small fraction voted in this tribal decision. This was not a majority of the tribal voice in action.

It went to court.


Lucy Allen v. Cherokee Nation Tribal Council, filed in 2004, asked the court to strike down a law making citizenship contingent on "proof of Cherokee blood."

... tribal lawyers argued that Cherokees — who approved a Constitution in 1975 reserving membership for "citizens as proven by reference to the Dawes Commission Rolls" — had already made clear freedmen should not be counted among them.

"It's not unreasonable to require someone to be Cherokee to be a citizen of the Cherokee Nation," Richard Osburn, an attorney for the tribe, told the court. Seven months later, a divided court issued its ruling.

"If the Freedmen's citizenship rights existed on the very night before the 1975 (Tribal) Constitution was approved, then they must necessarily survive today," Justice Stacy Leeds wrote for the 2-1 majority last March. "The Cherokee Nation is much more than just a group of families with a common ancestry."

Allen, celebrating the answer she'd been waiting for, drove with her sons to Tahlequah to register as new citizens. But the court's decision alarmed many others.

After the Allen ruling, critics collected more than 3,000 signatures demanding that Cherokee voters be allowed to decide. Smith, the chief, has called a vote for March 3.

Earlier this month, a group of freedmen asked a federal judge to stop the vote from taking place. The court's response to that request — part of an ongoing lawsuit by freedmen challenging the last tribal election because they were excluded from voting — will be closely watched.


Allen will go back to court.
 sombient

Joined: 2/7/2007
Msg: 20
Cherokee Racism
Posted: 3/5/2007 11:58:14 AM
Enrollment cards for the Five Civilized Nations (including Freedmen).

http://www.kshs.org/genealogists/culture_ethnic/Native%20American/dawes.htm

(anyone involved in this court case would want to consult this resource as well: http://www.okhistory.org/res/freedman.htm)

So, what have the other members of the Five Civilized Nations done about this forced enrollment issue?

Went looking for more, found this:


Strangely, somehow the act of acknowledging one's ties to the nations especially in Oklahoma , become infused with the issue of citizenship. For Freedmen descendants, this may be primarily because of the struggle of our ancestors, who after the indignities suffered as slaves, many suddenly found themselves confronted with complete alienation as ex-slaves---no longer of use to their former masters, many of whom were prominent tribal leaders.

History teaches us so much, and many Freedmen sought vehemently for recognition not only as human beings, after slavery ended, but also as full citizens in the land of their birth, and they hoped to be able to contribute to their nation. In the Creek and Seminole nations, Freedmen were indeed a part of the tribal structure throughout the 19th century. In the Cherokee Nation, the Cherokee historian Emmett Starr even pointed out that there were some former slaves who were also contributors to their nation as leaders---Stick Ross, Ned Irons, Frank Vann and others. These former slaves rose to become leaders within their own nation.

In the Choctaw and Chickasaw nations the struggles were more complex. Richard Brashears, Nathan Cochran, Watson Brown and others were needed as interpreters, yet, when they had the chance to work within the tribal structure, their participation was blocked. What resulted was that they became activists and established a number of organizations devoted to their own uplift and progress. The Choctaw Freedmen had some successes especially after their official adoption by the tribe in 1885. But the Chickasaw Freedmen who faced the continual problem of being completely without support of their nation, found themselves in complete isolation and their struggle ended only when statehood came. They then had the new issues emerge when statehood brought about the status of being second class citizens in the new Jim Crow state of Oklahoma .

As we fast forward to 2007---after 100 years, is citizenship a viable option?

The question should be asked, if membership in a nation is a real concept at all beyond the greater country in which we live. Separate nations have certain characteristics----a separate economy, their own currency, a government structure recognized in the international body of nations, and the incorporation of all of the people(s) that make up that nation. Are these characteristics in existence right now in those tribes to which the Freedmen have historical affiliation? Progress is being made, but at present, the answer is no---these characteristics do not exist.

Is citizenship a viable option in the light of those characteristics? Is this where energies should be placed? It is at best a personal issue for individuals.

There is the ongoing struggle of the Cherokee Freedmen. Their citizenship is at stake in the upcoming election. Their struggle is real and the upcoming election is critical.

The Creek Nation has had recent legal issues, but the case pending in that nation is not a case on behalf of the Freedmen---it is a case of proving Creek blood ties. Regardless of the arguments saying that it is a Freedmen case----it is NOT. Already, there are enrolled members of the Creek Nation who have African blood. Those members have proven blood ties to the nation. The current case is for two individuals hoping to prove their blood ties but who are not allowed to enroll at present. If the case was about the Freedmen, then all Freedmen would be eligible for enrollment when/if the case is settled in the favor of the two plaintiffs.

So, the Creek Freedmen, Choctaw Freedmen and Chickasaw Freedmen all with unique histories, are not at this time eligible for citizenship in their nations.

Should they pursue justice? Hopefully injustice is always seen as something to be addressed. Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.


(Angela Y. Walton-Raji, author: http://www.estelusti.com/freedmen_&_tribal_enrollment.htm)

Note that the US Gov't purportedly set aside several hundred thousands dollars for 5 Nations Freedmen settlement- its claimed that this money has never been awarded).

US Dept Interior will be pulled into the next court battle.
 sombient

Joined: 2/7/2007
Msg: 21
Cherokee Racism
Posted: 3/5/2007 12:29:42 PM
Whoa! This isn't about racism. Its about Tribal custom for recongizing blood right for membership. Quantum is 1/4 for Western Tribes. The Southern Tribes have apparently different requirements.

My interest is history and legal perspectives of The Five Nations tribal Feedmen.

I went looking for info on the disposition towards membership for the remaining tribe, the Seminoles, who I believe may have owned the largest number of slaves.

Note: the word 'ownership' is quite loose, as is the word 'slave'. The Seminole Tribe extended amnesty to slaves who sought their protection in the Florida territories before the Civil War.

History: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Seminoles


Seminole Freedmen rebuffed by Supreme Court. June 29, 2004

The U.S. Supreme Court on Monday refused to allow the Seminole Freedmen to sue the federal government without the Seminole Nation's involvement.

The Freedmen are trying to gain access and services provided by a $56 million settlement awarded to the Seminole Nation. They sued the Department of Interior but two courts said the tribe had to be part of the suit. But since the tribe has sovereign immunity, it cannot be joined without consent.

The Freedmen are descendants of African slaves who were made members of the tribe by a post-Civil War treaty. The Bureau of Indian Affairs has met with the Freedmen to talk about services that could be provided to them.


So a pattern is emerging, of a fight for official recognition for Tribal membership - and superimposed on it - what should constitute proxy right for memberships within these Tribes (regardless of ethnic derivation).
 cougar99

Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 22
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History
Cherokee Racism
Posted: 3/5/2007 12:36:11 PM
Afterward, the U.S. government demanded Cherokees free their slaves and make them citizens of the Cherokee Nation


Was this because of the Dawes rolls, or the Treaty of New Echota. As for the slave issue yes slaves were treated like people, instead of the indignities they faced from their own government.


Blood Quantum Laws is an umbrella term that describes legislation enacted to define membership in Native American groups. "Blood quantum" refers to attempts to calculate the degree of racial inheritance for a given individual.

The Dawes Act, also known as the General Allotment Act, was part of a federal initiative to "civilize" the Indians by forcing them into Western cultural and legal practices. The strategy of this Act was to take lands held in common by tribes as reservations and break them up into individually-owned parcels. Parcels of land were given to individuals who could prove that they were members of the tribe who owned the land, and the remainder was often opened for white settlement. Tribes set their own membership requirements, and many used blood quantum as part of the necessary qualification.

Many Indian tribes continue to employ blood quantum in their own current tribal laws to determine who is eligible for membership in the tribe. These often require a minimum degree of blood relationship and often an ancestor listed in a specific tribal census from the late 1800s or early 1900s. The Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians of North Carolina, for example, require an ancestor listed in the 1924 Baker census and a minimum of 1/32 Cherokee blood inherited from their ancestor(s) on that roll.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_quantum_laws




Cougar99 this is a quote from your profile,Im now questioning its integrity.......................................................................................................................... "The bottom line is if you have sparks with the person that is what counts, the world is too small and time is too short, to worry about things that don't carry any substance."..........................................


Ironheart that is completey off topic have some sense of respect for a forum, at least add something substantial to this debate. Taking quotes from my profile and trying to debase is really in bad taste.
 sombient

Joined: 2/7/2007
Msg: 23
Cherokee Racism
Posted: 3/5/2007 1:32:48 PM
This previously little know bit of American History, the "Black Indians", is very cool to read about.

The history and language of the Seminole Freemen, also called 'the Gullah', can be found very nicely documented here:

http://www.yale.edu/glc/gullah/cont.htm

And there are quite a few of them: a 1979 linguistics survey revealed some 100 thousand Gullah speakers, 10% of whom spoke no other language!
 nicktomlinrhys

Joined: 5/15/2006
Msg: 24
view profile
History
Cherokee Racism
Posted: 3/5/2007 2:01:33 PM
#18 ,


I am not generalising about Americans . Its quite obvious that Native Americans are held in low regard .YOu say that YOU are pro mankind.Really? Thats nice for you .You obviously are quite sensitive as well and happy to make assumptions that I am talking about YOU personally when I am addressing the topic in hand .I care not what you do in your private moments.
You have high regard for others and you have proved it too ? Says who ? You?
I could say a lot of inmodest stuff about myself -self praise is not my scene and you would be none the wiser.

However-you seek to undermine in POST 18 the very name.........Native American .Why isn't it this or that. Why is it causing you so much concern ? Why are African Americans called African Americans if we want to be smallminded about this? Why are Americans called Americans come to that ? ASk that before you ask why Native Americans are called Native Americans .

I think that this issue is another issue made into a race issue .It benefits another group and surprise surprise........its not African Americans on the recieving end of largese ....so its got to be racist .Thats the way you are making it seem .

To my mind and as an outsider- America is not geared towards ethnicity except if its black v white .There are so many billions in the world not of these two groups.Native Americans are one of them.I feel that they deserve all the redress,all the billions,all the promotion and all the respect and history thats coming to them.Its long long overdue and if this is a small step...............great.

A Cherokee is a Cherokee and thats that .They are not the racists.The racists were those who sought to eradicate their presence and those who are now splitting hairs of their personal tribal business.
 cougar99

Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 25
view profile
History
Cherokee Racism
Posted: 3/5/2007 5:04:01 PM
Sure I am an outsider........but I don't like the fact that Americans have no regard for the Native Americans and its oh so obvious



I am not generalising about Americans
..the difference being......

Well if you are an outsider, what makes you think you know how and what Americans feel and think, is it based on televison,newspaper articles, since it isn't direct knowledge.


You have high regard for others and you have proved it too ? Says who ? You?
I could say a lot of inmodest stuff about myself -self praise is not my scene and you would be none the wiser.


I thought about expanding on this, but I decided not to, why because it is obvious you have some type of warped agenda as far as Americans as a whole, which leaks traces of xenophobia. How can you make statements about people you don't know, as you said you are an outsider.


Why are African Americans called African Americans


Maybe because they were from Africa and now live in America, comprende'?


ASk that before you ask why Native Americans are called Native Americans .


See above

Now as far as Native Americans if you read my previous post, which I doubt you did, you would see where the term America came from, my point being Indians were here before the term America, and the Spanish were here also. So why aren't they Native Americans, and using your logic then immigrants from south of the border deserve their own sovereignty within the United States, since they were also removed from their land also, makes sense doesn't it.

I believe First people or even First Nation makes much more sense, Potawatomi, Sioux, Kiowa, Cherokee Apache and Navajo all are part of this, they each have their own identities. Same as a Chinese person, a Japanese person and a Russian person should not all be placed in the same category, although all are from Asia.

But, for some reason you are not understanding my point, why are just the Freedmen an issue, when there are many other races who have blood mixed with Cherokee, but were not mentioned. And since you are well versed in American history, as an outsider of course, you would know many believe the first Indians were from areas south of the country, who migrated north into what is now known as the United States.


To my mind and as an outsider- America is not geared towards ethnicity except if its black v white


The post is about the Cherokee Nation and the Freedmen, not America and its views on ethnicity. To paint a picture of America as only seeing black and white shows limited thinking on your part. You have to escape that thinking, and realize there are many, and I mean many Americans who do practice tolerance and respect of those of any race, not just black or white.
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