| Science & Astrology, You aren't the sign you think you are :) Posted: 3/7/2007 11:06:13 PM | So, for those of you that take stock in astrology or have had a passing interest in Astrology over the course of your life, let me share with you the best kept secret that's not a secret. Whatever Zodiac sign you've been thinking you were born under all your life……it's wrong. In fact, thanks to a scientific occurrence called the Precession of the Equinoxes, we are all actually one sign removed from our actual sign.
For instance, Astrology tells me that since I was born at the end of March that my sign is an Aries. Though I share some of the traits of a Ram, like being a hard headed ***hole that pees outside , in actuality Pisces would have been the constellation behind the equinox at the time of my birth. So in reality people who thought they were an Aries are actually Pisces. If you thought you were a Virgo, you are actually a Leo. Etc., etc., etc. oh, and for those of you born in December, there should actually be more like 13 signs of the Zodiac and astrology conveniently left out the constellation Ophiuchus.
Here are the scientifically correct birth signs and dates
Capricorn: January 20th to February 16th Aquarius: February 17th to March 11th Pisces: March 12th to April 18th Aries: April 19th to May 13th Taurus: May 14th to June 21st Gemini: June 22nd to July 20th Cancer: July 21st to August 10th Leo: August 11th to September 16th Virgo: September 17th to October 30th Libra: October 31st to November 23rd Scorpio: November 24th to November 29th Ophiuchus: November 30th to December 17th Sagittarius: December 18th to January 19th
Because this is a religious forum, I won't get into a big geeky discussion about how the Earth isn't a sphere and how unequal gravitational forces effects the planet (unless you ask me in an email, my dad was an astronomer, I dig that kind of thing), but the vernal equinox point shifts one constellation about every 2000 years. And guess what, it's been about 2000 years since the popular form of astrology was created. Many astrologers claim that Astrology has nothing to do with the stars in order to deal with the scientific facts and keep themselves employed. I never really believed in that stuff anyway, but don't mind at all if you do.
~Bryan | |
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| Science & Astrology, You aren't the sign you think you are :) Posted: 3/8/2007 12:07:07 AM | What?????.........i'm was not born under the astrologic sign that i thought i was all along?........my goodness, what a shock......its like finding out that my mom and dad were not my biological parents!!!
i'll be in therapy for life!!!!!!!!!!!!!................... | |
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| Science & Astrology, You aren't the sign you think you are :) Posted: 3/8/2007 12:17:12 AM | *chuckle*
I see that tongue firmly planted but I can still save you a bill
http://astrology.about.com/od/yourzodiacsign/l/aa053099.htm
Question: I've heard that since the zodiac was created, the stars have shifted ever so slightly... and now the zodiac that astrologers use is no longer accurate. I heard that you're now the sign before the sign you think you are. Is that right? Answer: What you've discovered is called the "Precession of the Zodiac" or the "Precession of the Equinoxes." Yes... the positions of the fixed stars and constellations have, indeed, slowly changed their positions in our sky over the past 2,300 (or so) years. Yet, Western Tropical Astrologers haven't chosen to "adjust" the "Tropical Zodiac" with the always changing positions of the stars. Western Tropical Astrology is the system of astrology most Westerners are familiar with via daily horoscope columns. The reason behind this seemingly stubborn refusal of most Western astrologers to "change with the times" is that Tropical Astrology is not based on planets passing through the celestial constellations. Western Tropical (tropos - turning) Astrology is, and has always been, based on the turning of the seasons (spring, summer, autumn, and winter). And yes... there is another zodiac, the "Sidereal Zodiac," that astronomers, Vedic Astrologers (originating out of India), and a few Western Sidereal Astrologers use; and the Sidereal Zodiac is loosely based on the planets passing through the celestial constellations.
Tropical Zodiac vs Sidereal Zodiac If one were born on the 29th of March, using the traditional Tropical Zodiac, your birth Sun is located in 9 degrees of Aries. However, if one were to use the Sidereal Zodiac - then your birth Sun would be located in 15 degrees of Pisces. The current discrepancy between the two zodiacs is approximately 24 degrees and is not quite an entire sign, since each of the 12 zodiac signs is assigned 30 degrees (12 X 30 = 360). So, if one were to use the Sidereal Zodiac in their calculations, it wouldn't always equal out to being the sign before. For example: My birth chart Sun is positioned in the late degrees of its zodiac sign. So regardless of whether I choose to use either the Tropical Zodiac or the Sidereal Zodiac, the zodiac sign for my late degree Sun would still end up being located in the same sign.
Here's the Bottom Line While the "Precession of the Equinoxes," is important to Tropical Astrology in respect to an astrological concept called the "Astrological Ages," (which I'll be discussing in an upcoming feature) - the precession is not relevant to the practice of Tropical Astrology. Tropical Astrology (and the Tropical Zodiac) have always been based on the path of the Sun traversing the Earth (the ecliptic) in relation to the turning of the seasons. Western Tropical Astrology lays no claim to being based on the positions of the Fixed Stars and constellations in the sky.
Short History Lesson Around 300 BC, when the spring and autumn equinoxes (i.e. the seasons) were originally positioned by the Greeks on the path of the Sun traveling around the Earth (the ecliptic) - it was done by the Greeks for the purposes of setting up a solar calendar. For simplicity sake, in setting up the calendar, the 12 sectors of the Sun's path (the ecliptic) were artificially divided up into 12 equal sized sections. Each sector had 30 degrees and was named for the zodiac constellation the Sun was "more or less" passing through. I say "more or less," because it was realized that the 12 constellations located on the Sun's path were all of differing sizes and shapes. So the Sun always spends unequal amounts of time passing through each of the 12 zodiac signs. For example: The Sun spends only 19 days traveling through the smaller constellation of Cancer and spends 45 days traversing the sign of Virgo. At the time this was done, the Sun's position approximately corresponded to the visual perception of its location against the 12 zodiac constellations in the sky. And so, the point of 0 degrees Aries was established as being when the Sun passed over the vernal (spring) equinox point, and the corresponding point of 0 degrees Libra was established as being when the Sun passed over the autumn equinox point.
The Greeks appeared not to know about the precession prior to 2nd century BC. So, for some historians, it was commonly believed that this "precession" was first discovered about 150 years later (around 150 BC), when it was noticed that there was a slight displacement of the Fixed Stars and constellations. This displacement was then named the "Precession of the Zodiac" or the "Precession of the Equinoxes." However, according to astronomer Dr Percy Seymour ("The Birth of Christ; Exploding the Myth"), based on new discoveries, it is now generally accepted that ancient Egyptians, as early as 4000 BC, were already aware of the precession and that it had even been incorporated into their religion.
History Lesson Over Even after 2,300 years, Western Tropical Astrology continues to be based on the path of the Sun traversing the Earth in relation to the turning of seasons. The Tropical Zodiac has admirably withstood the test of time; and so most Western astrologers continue to use the Tropical Zodiac. They continue to use it for one simple reason. It works. Therefore (for Tropical astrologers) the exact point where the Sun passes over the vernal (spring) equinox is still calculated as being 0 degrees of Aries.
Sidereal Zodiac? As mentioned earlier - astronomers, Vedic Astrologers, and a few Western Sidereal Astrologers use the Sidereal Zodiac, which is loosely based on planets passing through the current positions of the fixed stars. I qualify this by saying "loosely," because (as also mentioned previously) even the idea of each zodiac sign having 30 degrees was (and is) an artificial division of the the Sun's path through the 12 constellations. If one truly wished to be more "reality based" on the positions of the constellations, then Virgo would then need to be assigned her full 45 degrees, rather than her measly apportionment of 30 degrees. Of course... the other smaller zodiac signs, such as Cancer, would then have to give up some of their precious territory. Further, using the Sidereal Zodiac (and its arbitrary setting of 0 degrees of Aries) is inexactly based on where the constellation of Aries might begin. The good news is that in another mere 23,500 years (or so) - both zodiacs (Tropical and Sidereal) will once again be in agreement, and we astrologers will be left with nothing else to bicker about...
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| Science & Astrology, You aren't the sign you think you are :) Posted: 3/8/2007 12:19:13 AM | Man, you'd be surprised how much stock even the casual person on the street puts into their horoscope or about what magazines say about their personality based off their Zodiac.
I've mentioned this to some random people and am usually greeted with some hostility at presenting the very idea that they aren't what they've been reading about for years. Try it for yourself! I never thought people would be so disappointed at learning their true birth sign. I feel like the destroyer of worlds sometimes so I don't bother mentioning it anymore. :)
I've never believed in Astrology and I don't think many people do, however I've learned a great deal of the population seems to really hang on to the romance of the idea and it's not to be trifled with. | |
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| Science & Astrology, You aren't the sign you think you are :) Posted: 3/8/2007 1:43:15 AM | | I always wondered about that. I don't really believe in astrology, but some of the stuff seems accurate enough to make me go "hmmm". I actually seem to fit the gemini stereotype a bit, but not at all the taurus stereotype, which according to this information I actually am. | |
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| Science & Astrology, You aren't the sign you think you are :) Posted: 3/11/2007 7:17:44 AM | not only what you say is possible....but we have to keep in mind humans are capable of consciously evolving into
anything our little hearts desire..... so while astrology certainly has much value as a guide post we have to always remember we're beings without limitations......defining who we are by signs or any other means sets up limitations. | |
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| Science & Astrology, You aren't the sign you think you are :) Posted: 3/11/2007 10:30:54 PM | | I don't beleive in astrological signs. Why? because it is based on time and time is something of a measurment which man himself created, therefore it holds no basis or grounds in the manner that it is meant. Not to mention the universe is constantly changing (or so is said by the astrologers), which no doubt means the earth rotation, not necessarly on it's own axis, but in correlation to the rest of the planets and stars. It may not be noticable to the naked eye, but because of this, it will effectivly place our view and for those that depend on it, the time, out of sync with the origional and ongoing findings that determine the astrological "signs". | |
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| Science & Astrology, You aren't the sign you think you are :) Posted: 3/13/2007 5:11:26 PM | I found this topic very interesting as i have an interest in astrology but i for one take more stock in a deck of tarot cards than i do in the predicition of astrology. Because i have seen first hand through experience that they r more accurate!!!! | |
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gaby.s
| Joined: 2/24/2007 Msg: 18 | |
| Science & Astrology, You aren't the sign you think you are :) Posted: 3/22/2007 2:51:47 PM | | so I'm not a Sagittarian ??? I am an Ophiuchurian ( is that the correct terminology ?).... never even heard of this extra sign Ophiuchus , what does the word mean ? ...and what are supposed to be the characteristics of a person born under that sign ? Thanks for any further info . | |
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| Science & Astrology, You aren't the sign you think you are :) Posted: 3/22/2007 4:41:37 PM | You forgot to mention that we also have a "sign" that we "present" to the world as "ourselves"...sorta like a mask we hide behind...I studied Astrology many moons ago but it interfered with my religious beliefs and I gave it back to the sky where it belongs. | |
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| Science & Astrology, You aren't the sign you think you are :) Posted: 3/22/2007 6:10:51 PM | I've seen this type of calculation before too. There are so many schools of thought and methods before one even takes progressions of any sort into account that it's hard to keep track unless you are an avid practitioner.
The trouble is I've never seen an emphemeris or calculation method that takes the position of the individual planets - apart from the sun sign - into account using this method.
That's why I personally prefer an Ephemeris that is also in active use by Astronomers and therefore scientific as well.
My sun sign falls in a house ruled by Libra (with Venus in Libra also) so it really doesn't matter in my case. | |
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| Science & Astrology, You aren't the sign you think you are :) Posted: 4/1/2007 5:15:19 PM | | I think it's cool. I've patterned my imagination after Aries for entertainment since I first heard of astrology, but for the last 2 weeks I've been reading Pices predictions and it's delitefull how close they are every day to truely usefull hints. | |
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| Science & Astrology, You aren't the sign you think you are :) Posted: 4/1/2007 10:43:07 PM | Well that explain's alot! I'm a Scorpio but I'm not the person it says I am. I find that some of it describes me to a T. But other thing's written about Scorpian's has never applied to me. I find you guy really interesting. I think I have a new forum to read for awhile, Thanks guy's  | |
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